Comments on: Thai capital to shift (it’s in the stars)!

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:31:39 +0000

Thank you Nirut.
Those urban voters sound similar to voters in the west – voting on single issues seems to be very prevalent (in Australia usually it’s called voting with the hip-pocket)

I was just trying to be rational looking at the big picture of how divisive Thaksin had become and once he had shown his true colors with the Temasek deal, why people still supported him.

Of course, if I put my irrational hat on, I too can find many reasons to vote for Thaksin.

By: Nirut

Nirut — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:58 +0000

Hobby, the point to all I am saying on this belief issue is the “reasons” you seek do not exist by merit of your limiting any legitimate ones to ones that make sense to you in your terms…I am not holding out on you and expecting you to “find out for yourself’ with a set of explanations that can be looked up in the index of a book, what I am saying is there are other ways of looking at the issue that can cast some light on the areas you are finding difficult to comprehend…there are also huge similarities between how you think and what you believe as thos eof the people under discussion…its how you think about it that is important.

On the voting for Thaksin issue the urban voters that I know, who aid they voted for Thaksin and would again, did so because in their words he was tough on crime, immigration and illegal immigrants, he was sensitive to the moral crisis that some saw is afflicting Thailand and his social policies reflected this. They were unaware at the time I was talking to them of the conflict between Thaksin and the King, they thought he was a good business man and so had economic accumen and on the issue of corruption they saw him as not that different from other candidates and parties. They very much liked his “det khard” (absolutist) approach to things. In terms of the violence in the south these same people saw the escalation over the last couple of years as evidence that something was being done about the strife there at the same time as evidence that something more needed doing. Thaksin apealed to these people on a number of levels and most of them not that different to the appeal of candidates and parties in the US and Great Britain to their voters. This particular group I am referring to all have tertiary level eductaion from either a Thai intitution or from Japan, Australia the Phillipnes or India. Their education is infields like tourism, economics or business administration, a couple of them were employed in the public service and the rest in private industry. In total I am talking about a group of people numbering around 15 who for the most part socialised together, were long term friends, some from high school, and aged between 30 and 35 yrs. They live in the vicinity of Rad Phrao and Nonthaburi and earn somewhere between 10 to 65 thousand baht a month depending on their respective employment. A couple of them think the coup is a good idea as it is restoring people’s respect in the king while other’s have said they think it is international interference similar to the election that was declared null and void in 1992 and saw Suchinda maintain power after the US said the elected candidate in question had links to drug dealers, priimarily through his brother (their words)…this is just a general account of my experience with one particular group of urban pro Thaksinites…I have met many outer province urbanites who support him but only in passing but they and their rural counterparts do share some of these opinions..this is not said as a determinant of their voting choices, just a reflection of their conversations on the topic and others related to it.

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:21:19 +0000

Nirut, you must by now realise that I am lazy. Instead of advising me to look at ‘other literature in the field’, it would be much more helpful to me if you gave a concise summary of what you see are reasons behind the practices.
(I’m not an academic, so there is no need to go into detail about the ‘complexities and subtleties’ that academics might consider important – I’m sure the other academics at this site will let you get away with just a concise summary statement/opinion when dealing with me.)

By the way, I’m still waiting for some responses from people about other reasons to continue to support Thaksin … maybe I will have more luck getting a response over at Pundits blog?
Aside from the discussions on rural voters, I would be really interested why an urban voter would continue to support Thaksin.

Also I would appreciate some comment from the pro democracy, anti-coup camp about how the problem of Thaksin would have been solved without the coup.
(or do they not even consider that Thaksin was a problem, because he is what the ‘democratic system’ threw up)

By: Nirut

Nirut — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:03:05 +0000

Hobby, you are relentless. I disagree with Spiro’s take on these things and while I do not discount the potential psychological benefits that may be part of the experience i wouldn’t reduce the practices to that effect alone. HAve a look at some other literature in the field….

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:46:02 +0000

This is from a review of the book on Amazon:
‘Primarily, Spiro presents these beliefs as strategies to deal with suffering. Secondly, he presents them as occasionally expressing dissent against the dominant Theravada Buddhism.’

That’s exactly in accordance with what I think.
(I have not read the book and know nothing about Burmese supernaturalism.)

‘Strategys to deal with suffering’ – IMHO the reason most people believe in religion, superstion, voodoo and the like.
There is a lot of suffering in this world, and it’s a lot easier to just believe in something than to have to try to rationalise it some other way.

‘Expressing dissent against the dominant Theravada Buddhism.’
- I like ‘pure’ Theravada Buddhism as a religion, but unlike most other religions it does not offer much explanation for the great questions in life, therefore the need for supernaturalism (voodoo & superstition).

By: Nirut

Nirut — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:41:16 +0000

Well if you would be interested to read about the psychological functionalist interpretations of this kind of thing I suggest you read Melford Spiro’s “Burmese Supernaturalism”…note he doesn’t call it superstition….

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:26:43 +0000

Sorry to butt in again, Nirut, but I could not resist.
Aside from the anthropoligst’s take on things, perhaps a psychologist’s perspective on why people need rituals, superstitions and religion would also be helpful in understanding these things.

By: Nirut

Nirut — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:53:07 +0000

Andrew as an anthropologist who has just given a paper on village ritual, has an interest in matrilineal Spirit cults and said recently that they were going to look into people’s beliefs in the context of political culture do you have nothing to contribute here?

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:02:05 +0000

Nirut, I don’t intend contributing any more to this discussion on what I call ‘voodoo and superstition’.
I’ve explained my views in post 12 above, and am prepared to accept that I am ignorant (by choice) when it comes to voodoo.

In case you are wondering, my comment on genocide and revenge was not meant to be personal, and rather another of my ‘concerns’ about how people see things differently.

I look forward to your thoughts on reasons to still support Thaksin on the other thread:
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2006/09/21/new-mandala-in-the-press/#comment-6803

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:25:32 +0000

Nirut, thats a bit rich.
To be honest, I am becoming quite scared by the opinions of some of you ‘academics’
You are attacking my conceited ignorance, while your comments on revenge go close to justifying genocide.