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	<title>Comments on: The regime’s royal ridicule</title>
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	<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/</link>
	<description>New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia</description>
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		<title>By: New Mandala &#187; Censorship and Thai cinema</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-2/#comment-82820</link>
		<dc:creator>New Mandala &#187; Censorship and Thai cinema</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-82820</guid>
		<description>[...] reviews elsewhere).  The current stalemate between the film-maker and the Thai officials has, unsurprisingly, also led to continuing global interest.  If you want to read more about the issue from the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reviews elsewhere).  The current stalemate between the film-maker and the Thai officials has, unsurprisingly, also led to continuing global interest.  If you want to read more about the issue from the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: New Mandala &#187; YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-80439</link>
		<dc:creator>New Mandala &#187; YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 10:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-80439</guid>
		<description>[...] had thought that after a couple of weeks it would be in everybody&#8217;s best interest to simply ignore the provocative and childish videos that may, on occasion, cause offence in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had thought that after a couple of weeks it would be in everybody&#8217;s best interest to simply ignore the provocative and childish videos that may, on occasion, cause offence in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: david w</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-65469</link>
		<dc:creator>david w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-65469</guid>
		<description>An presentation at Australian National University in Sept 2006 that bears on the topic under discussion. Unfortunately, I didn&#039;t hear it, but here is the description.


  *Tuesday 26 September 2006*
*Peter Jackson - PAH*

*God-King as Commodity: Thailand&#039;s King Bhumiphol as a &quot;Virtual Deity&quot;*

*Abstract *

In this work-in-progress seminar I will discuss the re-emergence of the 
discourse of &quot;deva-raja&quot; (god-king) around the present King of Thailand,

Bhumiphol. Historically the legitimacy of monarchical rule in Thailand 
drew both on Buddhist notions of &quot;dhamma-raja&quot; (righteous monarch) and 
Brahmanical notions of &quot;deva-raja&quot; (god-king). There was never a clearly

formulated resolution of the tension between these different conceptions

of kingship, with the alternative Buddhist and Brahmanical symbolisms of

royal rule rising and falling in prominence in different periods. In the

modern period, ideas of Buddhist kingship have generally been more 
popular and linked with notions of modernity, scientific rationality, 
and progressive democratic rule. In contrast, Brahmanical symbolisms 
have at times been critiqued for their historical association with 
&quot;irrational&quot; beliefs and &quot;dictatorial&quot; government. However, in the past 
couple of decades the notion of Thailand&#039;s king as a &quot;deva-raja&quot; or 
&quot;god-king&quot; has begun to reappear in nationalist discourse, even if in 
the somewhat ironic idiom of a &quot;virtual god-king&quot; (sammuti deva-raja). I

will consider the partial rehabilitation of the discourse of &quot;god-king&quot; 
in the context of the June 2006 celebrations of the 60th anniversary of 
King Bhumipol&#039;s accesion to the throne. I will reflect on the place of 
&quot;god-king&quot; discourse in the current intense polarisation of Thai public 
opinion around the rule of &quot;interim prime minister&quot; Thaksin Shinawatra 
and the ways that royalist discourse constrains otherwise &quot;rationalist&quot; 
Thais to voice public support for &quot;supernatural&quot; accounts of the place 
of the King in contemporary Thai social and political life.**</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An presentation at Australian National University in Sept 2006 that bears on the topic under discussion. Unfortunately, I didn&#8217;t hear it, but here is the description.</p>
<p>  *Tuesday 26 September 2006*<br />
*Peter Jackson &#8211; PAH*</p>
<p>*God-King as Commodity: Thailand&#8217;s King Bhumiphol as a &#8220;Virtual Deity&#8221;*</p>
<p>*Abstract *</p>
<p>In this work-in-progress seminar I will discuss the re-emergence of the<br />
discourse of &#8220;deva-raja&#8221; (god-king) around the present King of Thailand,</p>
<p>Bhumiphol. Historically the legitimacy of monarchical rule in Thailand<br />
drew both on Buddhist notions of &#8220;dhamma-raja&#8221; (righteous monarch) and<br />
Brahmanical notions of &#8220;deva-raja&#8221; (god-king). There was never a clearly</p>
<p>formulated resolution of the tension between these different conceptions</p>
<p>of kingship, with the alternative Buddhist and Brahmanical symbolisms of</p>
<p>royal rule rising and falling in prominence in different periods. In the</p>
<p>modern period, ideas of Buddhist kingship have generally been more<br />
popular and linked with notions of modernity, scientific rationality,<br />
and progressive democratic rule. In contrast, Brahmanical symbolisms<br />
have at times been critiqued for their historical association with<br />
&#8220;irrational&#8221; beliefs and &#8220;dictatorial&#8221; government. However, in the past<br />
couple of decades the notion of Thailand&#8217;s king as a &#8220;deva-raja&#8221; or<br />
&#8220;god-king&#8221; has begun to reappear in nationalist discourse, even if in<br />
the somewhat ironic idiom of a &#8220;virtual god-king&#8221; (sammuti deva-raja). I</p>
<p>will consider the partial rehabilitation of the discourse of &#8220;god-king&#8221;<br />
in the context of the June 2006 celebrations of the 60th anniversary of<br />
King Bhumipol&#8217;s accesion to the throne. I will reflect on the place of<br />
&#8220;god-king&#8221; discourse in the current intense polarisation of Thai public<br />
opinion around the rule of &#8220;interim prime minister&#8221; Thaksin Shinawatra<br />
and the ways that royalist discourse constrains otherwise &#8220;rationalist&#8221;<br />
Thais to voice public support for &#8220;supernatural&#8221; accounts of the place<br />
of the King in contemporary Thai social and political life.**</p>
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		<title>By: timokl.de</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-65185</link>
		<dc:creator>timokl.de</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-65185</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Thailand blockt YouTube - Aktualisierung...&lt;/strong&gt;

Translation of the discussion into German....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Thailand blockt YouTube &#8211; Aktualisierung&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Translation of the discussion into German&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Timokl</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-65182</link>
		<dc:creator>Timokl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-65182</guid>
		<description>Oh well, I just saw that Streckfuss&#039;s article is also available here: http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/streckfuss.doc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh well, I just saw that Streckfuss&#8217;s article is also available here: <a href="http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/streckfuss.doc" rel="nofollow">http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/streckfuss.doc</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timokl</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-65179</link>
		<dc:creator>Timokl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-65179</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very refreshing to have found a discussion about this topic that goes beyond the normal ranting.

I would like to point out that the Bangkok Post  released on 11. April 2007 an interesting commentary on the lese majeste laws by David Streckfuss, who had earned a PhD on the issue of lese majeste and defamation in Thailand. Streckfuss - rightly, I think - argues that as this law is open to interpretation and can be used rather freely, it&#039;s mostly used to attack political opponents. Streckfuss also suggests to add a clause that his law should only by applied &quot;by order of the king of with his consent&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very refreshing to have found a discussion about this topic that goes beyond the normal ranting.</p>
<p>I would like to point out that the Bangkok Post  released on 11. April 2007 an interesting commentary on the lese majeste laws by David Streckfuss, who had earned a PhD on the issue of lese majeste and defamation in Thailand. Streckfuss &#8211; rightly, I think &#8211; argues that as this law is open to interpretation and can be used rather freely, it&#8217;s mostly used to attack political opponents. Streckfuss also suggests to add a clause that his law should only by applied &#8220;by order of the king of with his consent&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Le Roi, youtube at la censure. Des Implications plus importantes qu'une simple perte de face &#171; Blog de beton</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-64646</link>
		<dc:creator>Le Roi, youtube at la censure. Des Implications plus importantes qu'une simple perte de face &#171; Blog de beton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-64646</guid>
		<description>[...] New Mandala  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New Mandala  [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-64553</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-64553</guid>
		<description>David W: I must have read Handley differently because IMO he does explain how the king has been positioned in respect of the religion.

As to how the majority of people feel about the king (as distinct from the monarchy), I think Taxi Driver has summed it up best in post #41 above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David W: I must have read Handley differently because IMO he does explain how the king has been positioned in respect of the religion.</p>
<p>As to how the majority of people feel about the king (as distinct from the monarchy), I think Taxi Driver has summed it up best in post #41 above.</p>
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		<title>By: Sawarin</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-64545</link>
		<dc:creator>Sawarin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-64545</guid>
		<description>david w, you might want to check out some studies by phra Paisan Wisalo (he&#039;s a Buddhist monk). 

Anyone mystified of deity kingship shoud visit the site of &#039;Fah Diew Kan&#039;. They really &#039;love him&#039; over there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>david w, you might want to check out some studies by phra Paisan Wisalo (he&#8217;s a Buddhist monk). </p>
<p>Anyone mystified of deity kingship shoud visit the site of &#8216;Fah Diew Kan&#8217;. They really &#8216;love him&#8217; over there!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: david w</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/comment-page-1/#comment-64497</link>
		<dc:creator>david w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/04/08/the-regime%e2%80%99s-royal-ridicule/#comment-64497</guid>
		<description>Nganadeeleg: I have read Handley. He is very good on explaining the official, public ideology of the King. But what he doesn&#039;t really address, since its not his project and he isn&#039;t approaching the topic in terms of on the ground fieldwork, is how groups beyond elites might envision the meaning and legitimacy of the monarchy. As other posts have indicated, it is evident that not everyone and perhaps sizeable segments of the public don&#039;t in fact buy into the dominant ideology of kingship presented by the palace and its network. And it would be strange to presume that there is no diversity on this topic in Thai society. Also, there is essentially no documentation or study in a systematic manner of the details of how average Thais interact with the idea or presence of the monarchy on an everyday basis (rather than highly occassional moments of annual ceremonies). So our knowlege about what Thais really think about the monarchy in general is, I would argue, very limited to idealization and stereotypes. And regarding what contemporary Thais think about the monarchy and kingship in terms of its religious meaning and significance, we are essentially blind I would argue.  Tosakan&#039;s references to Wales and Tambiah are useful. But they are also extremely dated (30s and 70s, respectively). And again, they rely heavily on a reading of these issues from the perspective of official, dominant, elite understandings. There is little or no discussion of non-elite opinion or actual daily practice. 

Jon Fernquest: I don&#039;t deny that the King is treated &quot;inside&quot; Thailand as if he was the equivalent of the Dalai Lama or the Pope. But as analysts we should be clear that this is historically and religiously speaking a deeply confused fallacy. I also suspect it is a self-interested one on the part of the palace, for the power of their ideology about the role of the King as a religious icon and spiritual leader relies upon slippery metaphors and associations that are not, or cannot, be examined with precision. The same with the ambivalent manner in which he is described as &quot;like a god&quot;. Thus the King is both fully human and fully divine, since they want to preserve both of those options when positioning the King as a political and social actor. If he was restricted to either one of those options, his authority would be significantly impaired.   

I also don&#039;t deny that he is involved in lots of (state) ceremonial activity as reported on the news. But how much of that is specifically identified as &quot;religious&quot; or &quot;Buddhist&quot;? And in how much of the religious ceremony that does occur is he positioned as a religious leader or icon (vs the monks or other religious actors taking part) instead of as a devout lay patron? Are other patrons of Buddhist ritual marked as spiritual leaders by the Thai media (obviously the King is seen as the greatest patron and thus by extension the greatest lay devotee in official, orthodox terms). These are not academic questions. Orthodox Theravadin notions of kingship are clear that the living kings are subordinate to monks as a religious actor. Which is why it would be strange to see offerings made to the living King as if he was Rama 5, for instance, who is treated as a thep in a way that the living monarch could never be (again, from an orthodox perspective). 

My point is that there is a lot about the religious identity, role and significance of the current monarch that we simply don&#039;t really know about because it hasn&#039;t been studied. And the reason why it hasn&#039;t been studied is obvious, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nganadeeleg: I have read Handley. He is very good on explaining the official, public ideology of the King. But what he doesn&#8217;t really address, since its not his project and he isn&#8217;t approaching the topic in terms of on the ground fieldwork, is how groups beyond elites might envision the meaning and legitimacy of the monarchy. As other posts have indicated, it is evident that not everyone and perhaps sizeable segments of the public don&#8217;t in fact buy into the dominant ideology of kingship presented by the palace and its network. And it would be strange to presume that there is no diversity on this topic in Thai society. Also, there is essentially no documentation or study in a systematic manner of the details of how average Thais interact with the idea or presence of the monarchy on an everyday basis (rather than highly occassional moments of annual ceremonies). So our knowlege about what Thais really think about the monarchy in general is, I would argue, very limited to idealization and stereotypes. And regarding what contemporary Thais think about the monarchy and kingship in terms of its religious meaning and significance, we are essentially blind I would argue.  Tosakan&#8217;s references to Wales and Tambiah are useful. But they are also extremely dated (30s and 70s, respectively). And again, they rely heavily on a reading of these issues from the perspective of official, dominant, elite understandings. There is little or no discussion of non-elite opinion or actual daily practice. </p>
<p>Jon Fernquest: I don&#8217;t deny that the King is treated &#8220;inside&#8221; Thailand as if he was the equivalent of the Dalai Lama or the Pope. But as analysts we should be clear that this is historically and religiously speaking a deeply confused fallacy. I also suspect it is a self-interested one on the part of the palace, for the power of their ideology about the role of the King as a religious icon and spiritual leader relies upon slippery metaphors and associations that are not, or cannot, be examined with precision. The same with the ambivalent manner in which he is described as &#8220;like a god&#8221;. Thus the King is both fully human and fully divine, since they want to preserve both of those options when positioning the King as a political and social actor. If he was restricted to either one of those options, his authority would be significantly impaired.   </p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t deny that he is involved in lots of (state) ceremonial activity as reported on the news. But how much of that is specifically identified as &#8220;religious&#8221; or &#8220;Buddhist&#8221;? And in how much of the religious ceremony that does occur is he positioned as a religious leader or icon (vs the monks or other religious actors taking part) instead of as a devout lay patron? Are other patrons of Buddhist ritual marked as spiritual leaders by the Thai media (obviously the King is seen as the greatest patron and thus by extension the greatest lay devotee in official, orthodox terms). These are not academic questions. Orthodox Theravadin notions of kingship are clear that the living kings are subordinate to monks as a religious actor. Which is why it would be strange to see offerings made to the living King as if he was Rama 5, for instance, who is treated as a thep in a way that the living monarch could never be (again, from an orthodox perspective). </p>
<p>My point is that there is a lot about the religious identity, role and significance of the current monarch that we simply don&#8217;t really know about because it hasn&#8217;t been studied. And the reason why it hasn&#8217;t been studied is obvious, of course.</p>
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