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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Buddhism and Science&#8217; conference at Mahidol</title>
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	<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/</link>
	<description>New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia</description>
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		<title>By: Nikhil Gangoli - Buddhism guide</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-483097</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikhil Gangoli - Buddhism guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-483097</guid>
		<description>Hi,

There is a deep connection between the mystical insights of Buddhism and the science of Quantum Physics. Gary Zukhav - in the book The Dancing Wu Li Masters - describes how the past, present and future converge to a single point - that is the Here and Now.

I would certianly be interested in the findings of the conference as the above book - interesting though it was - described findings that were more than 30 years old and I would like to learn of further developments in Quantum Physics and Science in general that have in common with the Buddhist view of the Universe.

If possible please explain the same in non scientific language.

regards

Nikhil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>There is a deep connection between the mystical insights of Buddhism and the science of Quantum Physics. Gary Zukhav &#8211; in the book The Dancing Wu Li Masters &#8211; describes how the past, present and future converge to a single point &#8211; that is the Here and Now.</p>
<p>I would certianly be interested in the findings of the conference as the above book &#8211; interesting though it was &#8211; described findings that were more than 30 years old and I would like to learn of further developments in Quantum Physics and Science in general that have in common with the Buddhist view of the Universe.</p>
<p>If possible please explain the same in non scientific language.</p>
<p>regards</p>
<p>Nikhil</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Buddhism in the Age of Consumerism&#8221; conference at Mahidol</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-481737</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Buddhism in the Age of Consumerism&#8221; conference at Mahidol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-481737</guid>
		<description>[...] Last year I highlighted an interesting conference at Thailand&#8217;s Mahidol University on the topic of Buddhism and Science.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Last year I highlighted an interesting conference at Thailand&#8217;s Mahidol University on the topic of Buddhism and Science.  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: david w</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-93110</link>
		<dc:creator>david w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 22:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-93110</guid>
		<description>Jon:

Another essay worth reading on Buddhism and Science is: David McMahan, &quot;Modernity and the Discourse of Scientific Buddhism.&quot; Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 72, No. 4 (2004), 897-933.

Some of the most recent interesting thoughts about historiography, Theravada chronicles and understanding the Buddhist past, in my opinion, can be found in: Stephen Berkwitz, &quot;Buddhist History in the Vernacular: The Power of the Past in Late Medieval Sri Lanka&quot;, (Leiden: Brill, 2004). Unfortunately, it is a very expensive academic text. Fortunately, it is a Google scanned book and can be found in their expanding electronic book library.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon:</p>
<p>Another essay worth reading on Buddhism and Science is: David McMahan, &#8220;Modernity and the Discourse of Scientific Buddhism.&#8221; Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 72, No. 4 (2004), 897-933.</p>
<p>Some of the most recent interesting thoughts about historiography, Theravada chronicles and understanding the Buddhist past, in my opinion, can be found in: Stephen Berkwitz, &#8220;Buddhist History in the Vernacular: The Power of the Past in Late Medieval Sri Lanka&#8221;, (Leiden: Brill, 2004). Unfortunately, it is a very expensive academic text. Fortunately, it is a Google scanned book and can be found in their expanding electronic book library.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Fernquest</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92980</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Fernquest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 14:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92980</guid>
		<description>Actually, the reason I brought Popper up was that he provides a solution to the so-called &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Induction Problem&lt;/a&gt; (See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ditext.com/russell/rus6.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bertrand Russell&lt;/a&gt;) also known as the Black Swan (in Australia) Problem or the Turkey Problem,  which really has a Buddhist ring to it, namely the little turkey comes quickly to believe from induction that his human care giver will always give him care, but of course on the day before Thanksgiving (or Guy Fawkes Day or Christmas) he wrings his neck. There was absolutely no evidence that he would do this, that he was so cruel. In fact, Popper states that all hypotheses about the world must be falsifiable, but the only ones you know for sure are the ones that you successfully falsified, like the, in retrospect, incorrect belief that  human care givers are kind, or like:

Annica = no permanence
Anatta = no self
Dukha = no thukha (pleasure)

That the Buddha falsified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the reason I brought Popper up was that he provides a solution to the so-called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction" rel="nofollow">Induction Problem</a> (See <a href="http://www.ditext.com/russell/rus6.html" rel="nofollow">Bertrand Russell</a>) also known as the Black Swan (in Australia) Problem or the Turkey Problem,  which really has a Buddhist ring to it, namely the little turkey comes quickly to believe from induction that his human care giver will always give him care, but of course on the day before Thanksgiving (or Guy Fawkes Day or Christmas) he wrings his neck. There was absolutely no evidence that he would do this, that he was so cruel. In fact, Popper states that all hypotheses about the world must be falsifiable, but the only ones you know for sure are the ones that you successfully falsified, like the, in retrospect, incorrect belief that  human care givers are kind, or like:</p>
<p>Annica = no permanence<br />
Anatta = no self<br />
Dukha = no thukha (pleasure)</p>
<p>That the Buddha falsified.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Fernquest</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92870</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Fernquest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 08:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92870</guid>
		<description>Re: B. Alan Wallace, Buddhism and Science, thanks for the reference, I&#039;ll have to look into it. I haven&#039;t read anything in this area, so mine are only casual musings. 

David: &quot;It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ‘empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need.&quot;

This is a useful observation for me. I am interested in the philosophy of science (which deals mostly with scientific method) and how it relates to historiography, particularly Burmese historiography which is heavily influenced by Buddhism. 

There is a tension between, for instance, the more positivist interpretation of historical texts of Than Tun who was educated in the British era (valorizing inscriptions and royal orders, discounting chronicle texts) and for instance the continually evolving literary interpretations in  Buddhist chronicle texts. U Kala Mahayazawingyi chronicle, for instance, begins at the beginning of the universe with succesive recreations and covers the social contract of the first Mahasammata (Mahathammada king), much of this being adapted from the Sri Lankan Sasana Vamsa, kind of &quot;Buddhist social science&quot;  or socio-political philosophy as opposed to the western you see in universities, i.e. Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Montesquieie, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: B. Alan Wallace, Buddhism and Science, thanks for the reference, I&#8217;ll have to look into it. I haven&#8217;t read anything in this area, so mine are only casual musings. </p>
<p>David: &#8220;It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ‘empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a useful observation for me. I am interested in the philosophy of science (which deals mostly with scientific method) and how it relates to historiography, particularly Burmese historiography which is heavily influenced by Buddhism. </p>
<p>There is a tension between, for instance, the more positivist interpretation of historical texts of Than Tun who was educated in the British era (valorizing inscriptions and royal orders, discounting chronicle texts) and for instance the continually evolving literary interpretations in  Buddhist chronicle texts. U Kala Mahayazawingyi chronicle, for instance, begins at the beginning of the universe with succesive recreations and covers the social contract of the first Mahasammata (Mahathammada king), much of this being adapted from the Sri Lankan Sasana Vamsa, kind of &#8220;Buddhist social science&#8221;  or socio-political philosophy as opposed to the western you see in universities, i.e. Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Montesquieie, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92822</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 05:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92822</guid>
		<description>David W., sorry to say this, but those Thammayut Nikai northeastern forest meditation masters are too busy trying to kick out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%92%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A2%E0%B9%8C_%28%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7_%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%93%29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mahanikai interim Supreme Patriarch&lt;/a&gt; than in trying to understand the latest advances in the neurosciences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David W., sorry to say this, but those Thammayut Nikai northeastern forest meditation masters are too busy trying to kick out the <a href="http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%92%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A2%E0%B9%8C_%28%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7_%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%93%29" rel="nofollow">Mahanikai interim Supreme Patriarch</a> than in trying to understand the latest advances in the neurosciences.</p>
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		<title>By: david w</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92755</link>
		<dc:creator>david w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 00:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92755</guid>
		<description>I have read a fair bit of the philosophy of Buddhism, as well as philosophical reflections upon Buddhism, and I haven&#039;t come across anyone who has argued that Buddhist teachings and philosophy are comparable to Popperian positivism. And I simply don&#039;t understand how the idea of anicca (that all phenomenon is conditioned and thus not eternal) has anything to do with empistemological claims about truth and falsifiability as proposed by Popper.

We clearly have radically different understandings of Buddhism as an intellectual system. While there is philosophy in it (of a particular Indian style; not to be confused with Western philosophy), it is not a philosophy per se. It is a soteriology, a method for achieving liberation from a samsaric world. It&#039;s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism&#039;s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the &#039;empirical world&#039; (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science&#039;s need. There might be points of overlap, taken out of context, but they are strikingly different intellectual projects regarding their methods, goals, principles, etc. And I don&#039;t think this fact does a diservice to either Buddhism or science as valuable exercises or human achievements. 

But really, the book I suggested in an earlier post really does an excellent job of discussing such issues. There are also some fine essays on the matter in the Encyclopedia of Religion and the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Well worth hunting down and then pursuing their suggested readings if one wants to delve into the topic in more detail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read a fair bit of the philosophy of Buddhism, as well as philosophical reflections upon Buddhism, and I haven&#8217;t come across anyone who has argued that Buddhist teachings and philosophy are comparable to Popperian positivism. And I simply don&#8217;t understand how the idea of anicca (that all phenomenon is conditioned and thus not eternal) has anything to do with empistemological claims about truth and falsifiability as proposed by Popper.</p>
<p>We clearly have radically different understandings of Buddhism as an intellectual system. While there is philosophy in it (of a particular Indian style; not to be confused with Western philosophy), it is not a philosophy per se. It is a soteriology, a method for achieving liberation from a samsaric world. It&#8217;s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism&#8217;s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the &#8216;empirical world&#8217; (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science&#8217;s need. There might be points of overlap, taken out of context, but they are strikingly different intellectual projects regarding their methods, goals, principles, etc. And I don&#8217;t think this fact does a diservice to either Buddhism or science as valuable exercises or human achievements. </p>
<p>But really, the book I suggested in an earlier post really does an excellent job of discussing such issues. There are also some fine essays on the matter in the Encyclopedia of Religion and the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Well worth hunting down and then pursuing their suggested readings if one wants to delve into the topic in more detail.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Fernquest</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92324</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Fernquest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 03:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92324</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a famous court case that listed a set of features necessary for Christian creationism to qualify as a scientific theory (it didn&#039;t  according to the court):

1. It is guided by natural law.
2. It has to be explanatory by reference to natural law.
3. It is testable against the empirical world.
4. Its conclusions are tentative, i.e. are not necessarily the final word.
5. It is falsifiable.
(McLean vs. Arkansas Board of Education, 1982) 

The last element, associated with philosopher of science &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Karl Popper&lt;/a&gt; seems to be very much in the spirit of the Buddhist notion of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.orientalia.org/dictionary-Buddhist_Dictionary-definition22834-anicca.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;anicca&lt;/a&gt;. Buddhism seems to have a method built into it, rather than dogmatic belief in certain miracles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a famous court case that listed a set of features necessary for Christian creationism to qualify as a scientific theory (it didn&#8217;t  according to the court):</p>
<p>1. It is guided by natural law.<br />
2. It has to be explanatory by reference to natural law.<br />
3. It is testable against the empirical world.<br />
4. Its conclusions are tentative, i.e. are not necessarily the final word.<br />
5. It is falsifiable.<br />
(McLean vs. Arkansas Board of Education, 1982) </p>
<p>The last element, associated with philosopher of science <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper" rel="nofollow">Karl Popper</a> seems to be very much in the spirit of the Buddhist notion of <a href="http://www.orientalia.org/dictionary-Buddhist_Dictionary-definition22834-anicca.html" rel="nofollow">anicca</a>. Buddhism seems to have a method built into it, rather than dogmatic belief in certain miracles.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Fernquest</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92110</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Fernquest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 15:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92110</guid>
		<description>&quot;And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.&quot;

I don&#039;t think they are irrelevant, hooking up &quot;classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states&quot; is important in and of itself, replacing magic with science  (in Malinowski&#039;s sense of the terms), replacing the local with the universal, but from where I am and have been situated, the most important aspect of that is that people will rely less on magic, and this is no abstraction on my part, I&#039;ve witnessed everything from seances to every kind of ghost, to what in Burmese is called an auk-lan (outland) saya (black magician) hired to put a hex on the lover of someone&#039;s 60 year old father, I won&#039;t elaborate. Or believing that cancer was caused by a spell by hostile villagers on an outsider, actually the little exorcism was performed before they knew it was cancer. U Nu&#039;s 1961 Thaka Ala play features the burning of a woman&#039;s longyi (sarong) in a magic candle as part of a love hex..Quaritch Wales book on Southeast Asian warfare book has an ancient warrior chanting incantations over ground human foetus (Kuman Tong, I believe) used to make an amulet for invulnerability...I don&#039;t openly disagreement in an culturally ugly fashion, to be sure,  but I just can&#039;t help my nagging scepticism about all this stuff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they are irrelevant, hooking up &#8220;classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states&#8221; is important in and of itself, replacing magic with science  (in Malinowski&#8217;s sense of the terms), replacing the local with the universal, but from where I am and have been situated, the most important aspect of that is that people will rely less on magic, and this is no abstraction on my part, I&#8217;ve witnessed everything from seances to every kind of ghost, to what in Burmese is called an auk-lan (outland) saya (black magician) hired to put a hex on the lover of someone&#8217;s 60 year old father, I won&#8217;t elaborate. Or believing that cancer was caused by a spell by hostile villagers on an outsider, actually the little exorcism was performed before they knew it was cancer. U Nu&#8217;s 1961 Thaka Ala play features the burning of a woman&#8217;s longyi (sarong) in a magic candle as part of a love hex..Quaritch Wales book on Southeast Asian warfare book has an ancient warrior chanting incantations over ground human foetus (Kuman Tong, I believe) used to make an amulet for invulnerability&#8230;I don&#8217;t openly disagreement in an culturally ugly fashion, to be sure,  but I just can&#8217;t help my nagging scepticism about all this stuff&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pig Latin</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/comment-page-1/#comment-92026</link>
		<dc:creator>Pig Latin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 10:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/05/22/buddhism-and-science-conference-at-mahidol/#comment-92026</guid>
		<description>david w: Well briefly, the brain has two hippocampi which form part of the limbic system. The limbic system is what neuro scientists believe to be where emotional memory is &#039;stored&#039; for lack of a better word. The hippocampus is where the longer term memories are found. However, the hippcampus also has links to the visual cortex and spatial awareness (which the limbic system does not) The physical nature of the hippocampus is like tough gristle. Tasteless yet bitter like the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>david w: Well briefly, the brain has two hippocampi which form part of the limbic system. The limbic system is what neuro scientists believe to be where emotional memory is &#8217;stored&#8217; for lack of a better word. The hippocampus is where the longer term memories are found. However, the hippcampus also has links to the visual cortex and spatial awareness (which the limbic system does not) The physical nature of the hippocampus is like tough gristle. Tasteless yet bitter like the truth.</p>
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