New Mandala

35 responses so far ↓

• 1 Historicus // Jul 29, 2007 at 4:47 pm

  Yes, according to one election commissioner, people are legally free to campaign for a no vote. But the military-junta and its government of palace toadies are making sure that they “win” (however that it defined). Watching their tactics on this referendum is going to produce some interesting lessons for the general election. My guess is that the bureaucratic conservatives will ensure that they get the results they desire.

  Another interesting bad news story today of the plan to fingerprint protesters at Sanam Luang in an effort to prevent foreigners from instigating violence. It is clear that the military wants to be able to control all opposition.

• 2 Srithanonchai // Jul 29, 2007 at 5:58 pm

  Police confiscated 4,000 no-vote posters in the Duang Pratheep Foundation (the posters are a color version of the ads that have appeared in Matichon).

  No-vote raid ‘illegal’, says election official
  Police claim seizure of anti-charter posters was military order

  Published on July 29, 2007

  Police have raided the Duang Prateep Foundation and confiscated 4,000 posters encouraging votes against the junta-sponsored draft charter.

  The posters carried the message: “It’s not illegal to vote against the draft constitution”.

  No one has been charged fol?lowing the seizure.

  Anti-referendum activists said police had told them they were acting on military orders.

  “They could not cite any law to back up their actions,” said anti-charter campaigner Sombat Boon-ngam-anong. “It’s ludicrous. The police know full well; so why are they acting upon the orders of the military?”

  Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum said nothing could be done legally against posters because a referendum bill had yet to be passed.

  Former senator Prateep Ungsongtham Hata complained to the Port Authority station that police had committed an “unlawful” act. She cited the nullified 1997 charter stipulating citizens’ rights to oppose an unlawful government and that people had a right and duty to peacefully oppose the junta’s draft charter.

  At press time police had refused to return the posters and said they would investigate whether their message was illegal or could cause a public disturbance.

  Thanaphol Eiwsakul, a coordinator of the 19 September Network Against the Coup and poster publisher told The Nation he believed the police had acted unlawfully.

  “We may sell and distribute more posters in front of National Police Headquarters on Monday,” he said.

  Meanwhile, the anti-coup protest-leaders detained since Thursday evening were barred from receiving visitors this weekend.

  Thida Tojirakarn, wife of jailed leader Weng Tojirakarn, was turned back yesterday. Thida became upset and vocal.

  Another leader and veteran politician Veera Musigapong appeared worried, it is said.

  Pravit Rojanaphruk,

  Jumpol Nopthip

• 3 Srithanonchai // Jul 29, 2007 at 6:06 pm

  If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.

• 4 Vichai N // Jul 29, 2007 at 7:35 pm

  Didn’t I say that soldiers are dumb?

  If the pro-NO’s are smart, they should keep up the pressure to diisseminate their ‘No to the Constitution’ literature and campaigns.

  Those pro-Thaksins who rioted at Prem’s residence are idiots.
  They should have been out at the streets on a house-to-house campaign to explain the flaws of the new junta-authored constitution. At least that is how I would have done it.

  Getting arrested for being a loud pro-NO to the constitution is a good way to be recognized as a true-democracy (not a truethaksin) adherent.

  Well good luck to you pro-No’s!

• 5 serf // Jul 30, 2007 at 12:45 am

  I agree with Vichai. It’s a bit like arriving at the battlefield and finding that you’ve left 90% of your troops behind, and you still decide to fight. It’s time to go back to grassroots and build the ‘revolution’ from Lego brick 1. The constitution is a lost cause. Why waste energy on an unwinnable cause. Get rid of this bunch of naive/jaded/gone greedy left and work with people who KNOW they want socialism or social democracy. If the government can’t provide people with the bare necessities, then its time to create a network in which ordinary people can provide their own necessities and in so doing increasingly and very gradually isolate the dinosaur pro-royalist & Thaksinite elements.

  It is essential to realize that Thaksin wished/wishes to usurp the current Premist elite that has taken the monarchy under its wing for its own selfish purposes. Popularism was how he hoped to acheive that. He certainly had no intention to usher in a more equitable society.

• 6 Srithanonchai // Jul 30, 2007 at 12:51 am

  “They should have been out at the streets on a house-to-house campaign…” >> Quite an agreeable suggestion, I think.

• 7 Vichai N // Jul 30, 2007 at 2:04 am

  Is the TRT or ex-TRT 14 million strength membership for real or merely bought?

  If the idiotic TRT executives were not being idiotic (idiotically trying to resurret the lost Thaksin cause), they could have harnessed those 14 million members, if those members are not mythical, to do the house-to-house campaign for their pro-Nos to the junta authored constitution.

  Like I said, good luck to you Pro-No’s!

• 8 Vichai N // Jul 30, 2007 at 2:05 am

  ‘resurrect’ I meant, not ressurect.

• 9 serf // Jul 30, 2007 at 2:15 am

  Srithanonchai | July 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

  If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.
  UNQUOTE

  Seems like a good reason to let it happen. Let them breath the full carbon dioxide of international distain. Just don’t let that wanker Thaksin take all the credit

• 10 jonfernquest // Jul 30, 2007 at 3:04 am

  I think the door to door pro-YES campaign has already started.

  My dear little wife told me the other day that she had to vote for Yutthitham (i.e. justice) next month, so she can’t come and stay in Bangkok just yet. This is the first time she’s taken an interest in voting or even talked about it, so I’m proud of her. I’m not going to try to influence her vote and as for me, if I was Thai, I don’t know what I’d do. I would certainly want to get out of this political-economic limbo that’s costing the country big-time and I know you’ll throw eggs at me, but I don’t think Surayud is all to blame. He doesn’t have a mandate to act as an executive like Anand. He just barely got away with the Japan-Thai economic cooperation agreement. I believe Pasuk about the dangers of the new constitution though. Does anyone know where you can get the recent 15 page paper that came out last week?

• 11 Tosakan // Jul 30, 2007 at 6:47 am

  I agree with Vichai.

  Instead of this nonsense at Prem’s house, the No leadership should be running a practical field campaign against the junta’s charter.

  On the other hand, I don’t think Thai Rak Thai and the No campaign are one in the same, but if they were, the mobilization of that membership base for peaceful purposes wouldn’t be a bad idea.

  Unfortunately, the military has a tight lid on the provinces(with arrests of leaders and confiscations of materials), so I doubt even a peaceful and legal campaign against the junta and its charter would be allowed to happen.

• 12 nganadeeleg // Jul 30, 2007 at 9:29 am

  Perfect constitution or Vichai’s ‘work in progress’ constitution – none of it really matters unless there is a change in attitude/behavior from most sections of Thai society – from the elites, politicians, military & police all the way down to the voting masses.

  Who will start the ball rolling and change first?

• 13 anon // Jul 30, 2007 at 10:14 am

  Let’s see whether Vichai N. and serf can swallow their pride and campaign against the military junta – the same military whose boots are still shiny from their kisses – as hard and as emotionally as they campaigned against the Thaksin government.

• 14 Historicus // Jul 30, 2007 at 11:37 am

  There is some very naive politics in this exchange. If one wanted to make the no case – and I’m not sure that it is even worth doing as a grassroots political strategy – is almost impossible at present, and especially for those identified here as pro-Thaksin.

  The military and police have everything pretty much tied down. Almost impossible to get TV or radio time – remember when we complained that Thaksin controlled all the media? He doesn’t anymore, and the “news” is more controlled than I can ever remember.

  Going door-to-door sounds like a nice liberal thing to do, but could it be done? Just having posters that propose a no case gets you into trouble. In the rural areas I’ve been to, the military and police are preventing “pro-Thaksin” groups doing much of anything at all – on a recent rural trip east of Bangkok, I went through 10 police checks in 100 kms.

  To be realistic then, it is probably politically better to concentrate on the promised election (see the ex-TRT moves of the last couple of days). But even there, if the current military moves are a preview of what they will do in the election, even this kind of political activism might be a waste of time, effort and money.

• 15 jonfernquest // Jul 30, 2007 at 2:48 pm

  Fear of the revenge of Thaksin seems to be driving the whole process. Chang Noi on managed democracy:

  “This is not a bad reconstruction of the semi-democracy or Premocracy of the 1980s…there is still one problem. Who is going to be the prime minister at the centre of this elaborate structure? Unless this choice can be carefully managed, there remains the possibility that the Thaksinites could sneak back, wreck all the delicate construction work of the last year, and even ***wreak revenge***.”
  http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/risks.htm

  Patron-client relations may be lined up in such a way that all roads lead back to Thaksin:

  “The Matchima group has positioned itself for this role. Its members were, of course, formerly fervent supporters of Thaksin. Indeed, the intertwined strands stretch a long way back. Matchima’s head, Somsak Thepsuthin, is the political heir of Montri Pongpanich who gave Thaksin the sweetheart mobile phone concession that made Thaksin rich. There is a risk that ***such a party could operate as nominee of the junta and nominee of Thaksin at the same time.*** What irony.”

  The court decision blackballing the 111 TRT executives actually played into Thaksin’s hands because it leaves no viable successor:

  “When the Constitution Tribunal judges banned all 111 TRT executives, they clearly deviated from the junta’s script. Ideally such a party should be led by a prominent businessman, respectable ex-minister, or someone of high social standing. So far there is no convincing candidate for this role.”

  This began a long time ago when all potential leaders outside of the TRT began to dry up. By concentrating all power in its hands like a gigantic political vaccuum machine, the ghost of TRT lives on. Who is going to be the Maw Pii?

• 16 jonfernquest // Jul 30, 2007 at 2:59 pm

  P.S. I have a fun party game where everyone tries to escape from a prison on an island in the middle of the Chao Phraya river where THaksin sends people for revenge after he comes back from exile.

  It’s fun to play and it’s not real, but it is a little creepy, because it could be real.

• 17 serf // Jul 30, 2007 at 5:00 pm

  QUOTE
  anon | July 30th, 2007 at 10:14 am

  Let’s see whether Vichai N. and Serf can swallow their pride and campaign against the military junta – the same military whose boots are still shiny from their kisses – as hard and as emotionally as they campaigned against the Thaksin government.
  UNQUOTE

  What campaign against Thaksin Anon? What pride Anon? The pride of boneheads like Jakrapob or Saprang. I’m not a Thai citizen, but I do have an opinion. Opinions are not street campaigns. In case you haven’t noticed, farangs cut zero ice in Thailand. But I kiss no one’s boots, and have no intention of wearing yellow like the cop-outs on both sides of this conflict. The campaign against Thaksin was conducted by Sonthi Limthongkul – another person who I deeply distrust.

  Direct confrontation with the junta/military is not something I would foist on ordinary people. But the likes of Chamlong, Sonthi Lim, Thaksin and the PTV shower are more than willing to spill other people’s blood for THEIR long-term benefit.

  The reality is that Thaksin’s always dubious reform process has failed miserably. The military has failed to live up to its promises. The monarchy is weak and has been hijacked by an elite that will resort to all foul means to stay in power at any cost. Confrontation with such a system is not practical. The system has to be subverted with stealth. To do that, the ordinary electorate will need networks of their own; NOT those handed down to it by some dishonest businessman or insincere army officer. No quick fix, Anon! Unlike Thaksin’s false promises that wasted another ten years of the ordinary citizen’s time

• 18 Bangkok Pundit // Jul 30, 2007 at 8:58 pm

  Who is impersonating Vichai? There is something we agree upon.

• 19 Vichai N // Jul 30, 2007 at 11:21 pm

  Obviously Anon you don’t know anything about boots. Spit shine combat boots get that label literally because one has to spit on them to get the glassy-shiny reflection effect . . .

  And you don’t get anything from the generals from your kisses Anon except the boot smacked at your slobbering mouth. The way to the generals’ hearts is through their pockets . . . . Thaksin would have told you that.

  Thaksin Shinawatra made his initial fortune from four telecom concessions awarded by government at a time when military influence was strong. He had to lobby generals to get these concessions, and he had to reward them. In one famous instance, he gave a general a Daimler. At the launch of his satellite, he said “I could not have this day without Big Jod,” meaning General Sunthorn, the head of the 1991 coup junta.

  linkage to: pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/honestmistakemonash.doc

  Following General Sunthorn’s death due to cancer, a scandal arose over the distribution of his estate. His will left most of his approximately 150 million U.S. dollar fortune to his mistress. His wife sued to have the will declared void. However, questions arose on how a general earning a little over US$1,000 a month could accumulate such a large personal fortune. Because Thaksin Shinawatra had publicly acknowledged “Big Jod” or General Sunthorn as man responsible for Shinawatra Group’s existence, public suspicion lingers that Thaksin Shinawatra himself may have been the ‘mysterious source’ of General Sunthorn’s unusual wealth.

  Thaksin probably learned “big-time” corruption during Shinawatra’s formative years while “working” the generals to get the juicy telcom licenses, or, corruption may have already been in his DNA.

• 20 Bangkok Pundit // Jul 31, 2007 at 6:56 am

  The worst part about this story, as I have blogged, is the explanation over the raid courtesy of Col. Sanserm of the CNS (as well as Col. Thanathip from ISOC):
  “การเข้าตรวจค้นดังกล่าวเนื่องจากสงสัยว่าตนเองจะครอบครองอาวุธสงครามและสิ่งผิดกฎหมาย

  [My translation: The search was [conducted] because [they] suspected that she had war weapons and illegal things there]”

  Yes, they were looking for war weapons at Kru Prateep’s house.

• 21 Historicus // Jul 31, 2007 at 11:16 am

  From Bkk Post, 30 Aug 2007

  EC says ‘vote no’ posters not yet illegal

  The Election Commission has refused to rule that posters produced by Prateep Ungsongtham-Hata calling on people to vote ”no” in the Aug 19 charter referendum are illegal and punishable under the new law.

  Ms Prateep, one of the emerging leaders of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), on Saturday filed a complaint with Tha Rua police against a police officer and a military officer who seized about 4,000 posters during a raid on her property. She said the posters, with ”vote no” messages encouraging the public to oppose the draft charter, were not illegal.

  Election Commission chief Apichart Sukhagganond said the EC would not rule that Ms Prateep had committed an offence because the new referendum law had yet to come into effect.

  The Referendum Bill, which outlaws maliciously influencing the way people vote on Aug 19, sailed through the National Legislative Assembly and will take effect after receiving royal endorsement and being published in the Royal Gazette. Offenders are liable to jail and a five-year suspension of voting rights.

  Mr Apichart said both new UDD leaders and supporters of the draft charter should exercise judgement before doing anything which could be deemed as violating the law once it becomes effective. ”All groups should campaign with caution,” he said. ”They can’t do just everything they want to. It is all right for the people to express their opinions, but it will be against the law to run a ‘vote down the referendum’ campaign.

  ”People should study the law carefully before doing anything.” His warning also covers state agencies, in particular the Interior Ministry, which will provide transport for people to go to the voting booths.

  Ms Prateep accused Pol Capt Phumsit Traipat and Capt Chawalit Netnual of theft, damage to property and infringing on her rights.

  This is an odd report, especially when the media is blanketed by positive – Yes – information about the referendum. This information is telling people about the supposed great and important bits of the draft constitution and it is all couched in terms that allude to the constitution being associated with the monarchy. Can’t wait to see how these tricks and the state’s machinery are used to impact the results of the election.

• 22 fall // Jul 31, 2007 at 12:38 pm

  I agree with Vichai, a pro-NO protest would make such a better martyr than anti-Prem, anti-Coup protest.
  People already know Prem is behind the coup, they are hitting that point to death (Although having the PM and whole cabinet out to apologize the head honcho is quite amusing/disturbing).

  But let’s face it, without the media backing, the most they can be is a martyr without a disciple. PAD succeed because most medias support them, while UDD get only referential news. I mean what do people know on that anti-Prem protest aside that they get arrest. No media report their detail point or agenda.

• 23 Historicus // Jul 31, 2007 at 9:12 pm

  Here’s how the free vote is being arranged:

  Bangkok Post, 31 July 2007

  CNS push for charter ‘yes’ vote: Armed forces, police ‘told to endorse draft’
  WASSANA NANUAM and SUBIN KHUENKAEW

  The Council for National Security (CNS) is pulling out all stops to rally support for the draft constitution ahead of the referendum on Aug 19, according to a military source. CNS chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin has instructed around 400,000 armed forces members and police officers and their families, through their commanders who sit on the CNS, to endorse the draft charter, the source said.

  The officers are expected to take on the role of ”charter ambassadors”, and more than120 military-controlled radio stations have been told to publicise the charter, according to the source.

  In last week’s cabinet meeting, Gen Sonthi asked the government to urge state officials to cast their ballots in the Aug 19 referendum. ”That is a signal for them to accept the constitution,” said the source.

  Gen Sonthi has also ordered the Internal Security Operations Command (Isoc), which has 700,000 staff nationwide under its command, to promote proper understanding of the constitution among rural people. Isoc spokesman Col Thanathip Sawangsaeng said provincial Isoc chiefs will use door-to-door tactics in their campaign to educate people so they will not be ”tricked” into rejecting the draft charter….

  No doubt the ISOC lot are Village Scouts and other groups of a similar ilk. Feeling like the 1970s, and I thought the military only wanted to go back to the 1980s!

  While the soldiers may be dumb, they are doing a pretty good job of ensuring the result they want.

• 24 Vichai N // Aug 1, 2007 at 12:28 am

  I used to think that the only group that would succeed to bring about a whopping REJECTION of the junta-authored constitution would be the much vaunted united together-we-hang 14 million strong ex-TRT party. But as predicted, without Thaksin, or more accurately without Thaksin\’s money, the \’united\’ , or, the 14 million number strength are both turning into myths, as ephemereal as a Baht 500 bill.

  And that is sad. Because NOW is the time for that disgraced ex-TRT party to show that the party is political, it has ideology, and it has backbone. A united 14 million ex-TRT party voting for NO would have at least the mud and spit on those disgraced TRT faces.

  Does the ex-TRT party truly stand only as Thaksin\’s butler service? Apparently so . . . . apparently so.

  I am still hoping the Democrat Party would have a turnaround and start a NO campaign to the junta-authoried Thai constitution.

• 25 Vichai N // Aug 1, 2007 at 12:30 am

  A united 14 million ex-TRT party voting for NO (to the junta authored constitution) would have at least removed the mud and spit on those disgraced TRT faces.

  (CORRECTION)

• 26 nganadeeleg // Aug 1, 2007 at 9:02 am

  I am amused at all this concern that the new constitution might be passed.

  Andrew, how can you be worried that the masses will be gullible when voting in the referendum, and yet they are so ‘astute’ when voting for Thaksin in elections?

• 27 Andrew Walker // Aug 1, 2007 at 12:45 pm

  Vigorous debate, for and against, is a normal part of a democratic electoral process. Except in this case the regime seems to be working hard to close down the “no” case. If the constitution does pass you won’t find me arguing that people voted for it because they are stupid or lack the superior moral judgement that some people seem to claim.

• 28 Vichai N // Aug 1, 2007 at 12:47 pm

  Touche ngana!

  Would Andrew Walker even be more horrified that the pro-Thaksins may vote YES en massse while the anti-Thaksin give their rejection NO\’s . . .

• 29 nganadeeleg // Aug 1, 2007 at 1:37 pm

  I’m not so sure the vigorous debate is really necessary because the people should still be able to suss out whether they are being ’snowed’.

  I actually think that the “no” case starts as a natural favorite due to peoples inherent distrust of government/authority:
  http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/07/search-for-wmd.html#242427245581310657

• 30 Srithanonchai // Aug 1, 2007 at 10:29 pm

  On the other hand, people have a tendency to go with the flow. A no vote might require more courage than merely doing as expected of them, or of simply staying at home

• 31 jonfernquest // Aug 1, 2007 at 11:23 pm

  “On the other hand, people have a tendency to go with the flow.”

  Yep, agency vs. structure, freewill vs. determinism, I wonder how much of each there is in the electoral process. That’s why I’d love to see how the “pyramid of electoral organisation” described by Pasuk is built, from the ground up, with all the gritty details:

  “There is a dense pyramid of electoral organisation extending down from MPs through local government heads to village canvassers. Many have benefited from electoral democracy.” (Source)

• 32 Taxi Driver // Aug 2, 2007 at 1:08 am

  The fact that the CNS generals think that its OK to order 400,000 armed forces members and police officers and their families (Historicus #23) to vote a particular way in the referendum, so clearly demonstrates that these generals have no interest in democracy.

• 33 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Aug 2, 2007 at 3:49 am

  I don’t know what the problem is. After I received my copy of “黄宝书” (huang baoshu/The Little Yellow Book), I read it and saw the error of my ways. Through the wise words of the NLA, my mind and heart were washed and purified. I now devote all my time to studying and applying the treasured CNS-thought in my life!

  Studying the glorious CNS-thought brings about enlightenment to the work unit, resulting in production improvement that offsets the time lost in studying it.

  Any attempt to counter the theories set forth in 黄宝书 is evil deviationism! Those Thais who do not carry the 黄宝书 with them at all times and, thus, are not able to produce it when asked by the Recificiation Committee of the Ministry of Culture , are obviously deviationist counter-revolutionaries, and should be beaten and sentenced to many years of hard labor.

  Hu er hei yo, the East is Yellow!

• 34 Srithanonchai // Aug 2, 2007 at 11:11 pm

  “pyramid of electoral organisation” > Not too long ago, Pasuk/Baker were great fans of “jao pho.” Since the last Thai Studies conference, they have started talking about this pyramid. Wonder where they got this from.

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