New Mandala

39 responses so far ↓

• 1 Vichai N // Aug 3, 2007 at 11:00 pm

  Andrew Walker is posturing as usual. What Andrew Walker is saying to the Thai people is for this referendum they will be damned if they say NO and damned if they say YES. I think in Vegas parlance, they would call Andrew Walker’s gambit ‘hedging’ on all the outcomes: if the YES wins, Andrew will say ‘I told you so!’, and if NO ‘the people won despite the intimidation’.
  Of course I remember in one thread Andrew Walker proudly proclaiming he trekked the Thai boondocks to track one village woman to give her opinion of ‘Sufficiency Economy’. That to Andrew Walker is slogging blood-and-sweat academic research! Bah!
  To the Thai people I say just vote on your instincts.
  Me? I want the NO to prevail simply because I do not want any appointees in the law-making body, the Thai parliament. Because a NO vote simply says I want the old 1997 Thai constitution back and both the junta and Thaksin should be able to defend themselves in any day of their reckoning. Deep inside I also want to test General Sonthi’s sincerity (he gave me and millions of Thais specific promises I hope he will not break) – - what will he do if the NO’s prevail?
  So ignore this prolix Andrew Walker and his fixation on ‘sufficiency’ (belated stipends from Manchester City perhaps prompts his unending cry for sufficiency, who know?)! Andrew Walker is just like any other Red Shirt – - who publicly shout their outrage at the junta-authored constitution but in the meantime make endless cell phone calls wheeling and dealing themselves IN the next election and IN the next coalition.
  But this one is specifically for Andrew Walker: Mr. Andrew Walker I have NOT heard nor read any of your personal sufficient outrage and condemnation, of Thaksin Shinawatra’s human rights abuses for his extrajudicial slaughter of thousands during Thaksin’s anti-drugs madness, that today still provoke the wrath of many HRW groups around the world, because these HRW groups believes, to which I agree, that Thaksin Shinawatra belongs to the select few human rights abusers of ‘the worst kind’, and Thaksin is still around unpunished and unrepentant.

• 2 ืnganadeeleg // Aug 4, 2007 at 10:09 am

  Vichai, it’s refreshing to see that you are prepared to follow your instincts in the upcoming referendum, instead of merely being a follower, or taking money to vote a certain way.

  I think damned if you vote “yes” and damned if you vote “no” is very apt, and therefore it has to be a personal decision about which choice represents the compromise that you are prepared to live with.

  I’m not holding my breath waiting for Andrew to show any outrage or condemnation against Thaksin’s role in the extra-judicial slaughter and other human rights abuses, but if he is in the mood to answer your question, I have a few more questions for him:

  - In addition to those abuses, I would also like to know why Andrew apparently supports Thaksin’s use of tax havens, tax evasion & policy corruption to enrich his family.

  - Andrew’s favorite political party, TRT, is morphing into a new party, and is in the process of choosing a new leader.
  In seeking a replacement leader that best fits the Thaksin mold, they have narrowed the choice to two outstanding individuals.
  Now that his beloved Thaksin is gone, who would Andrew prefer to be his new leader, Samak or Chavalit ?

• 3 Andrew Walker // Aug 4, 2007 at 1:36 pm

  No need to hold your breath. From my very first post on New Mandala:

  I don’t agree with all aspect of Thaksin’s economic development policy, though I consider much of the critique of his so-called populist policies to be misplaced. And I certainly do not wish to endorse his government’s flagrant abuses of human rights both in the South and in the notorious war on drugs.

  And after the coup:

  One of the most unsavoury aspects of the Thaksin’s government’s term was the so called “war on drugs” which claimed the lives of thousands in a spate of extra-judicial killings. And one of the most unsavoury aspects of Thai political culture is that this brutal campaign (which turned a blind, and sometimes even approving, eye to official abuse and the violent settling of numerous local scores) proved to be a substantial electoral asset.

  And later (in relation to an ABC television interview with Thaksin):

  What about some harder hitting, and well researched, questions about, for example, the so-called “war on drugs” or the heavy handed management of unrest in the south.

• 4 Vichai N // Aug 4, 2007 at 2:05 pm

  Now that was not so difficult wan’t it Andrew Walker . . . getting some convictions into your post? Now if you can only repeat the condemnation making it PERSONAL, censuring Thaksin as being PERSONALLY responsible, for the extrajudicial rampage, that would sound even better.

  With a little bit more passion in your posters Andrew Walker, you may yet persuade a few Thai people.

• 5 nganadeeleg // Aug 4, 2007 at 6:53 pm

  Hardly outrage & condemnation – more like a cursory mention in between continuing to defend the the rural masses in their decision to ignore his human rights abuses, tax evasion & policy corruption.

  BTW, I was never overly critical of the village schemes & 30 baht health scheme, but I did wonder how it could be sustainable especially with the PM setting the example by pursuing rampant tax evasion.

• 6 Srithanonchai // Aug 4, 2007 at 10:15 pm

  “And one of the most unsavoury aspects of Thai political culture is that this brutal campaign (which turned a blind, and sometimes even approving, eye to official abuse and the violent settling of numerous local scores) proved to be a substantial electoral asset.”

  In the war on drugs, this–”pragmatic”?, “opportunistic?”, “flexible”?–aspect of Thai cultur worked out in favor of Thaksin. With the coup, this same aspect worked against him.

• 7 Grasshopper // Aug 5, 2007 at 11:43 am

  Vichai, again, I am convinced by your argument, but I have no idea what I am supporting with you. Please enlighten me and I will willingly carry your banner into the sunset!

• 8 Vichai N // Aug 5, 2007 at 8:57 pm

  Grasshopper by being convinced you automatically become irrelevant. Do not be convinced by me, or by Andrew or by, of all people, Thaksin or General Sonthi.

  The truths we discover by ourselves we relish . . . but we will never be 100% sure.

• 9 Republican // Aug 5, 2007 at 9:41 pm

  Re. the comment in #6:

  “… this – “pragmatic”?, “opportunistic?”, “flexible”?–aspect of Thai cultur … worked against him.”

  This is one of the worst examples of culturalism I have seen on this blog. So the coup was a manifestation of the mysterious inexplicable workings of “Thai culture” (woooo…) which is inherent in all Thais, which “worked against” Thaksin. And I thought the coup took place because the military sent their tanks and soldiers into the streets, seized control of the media, arrested government leaders, and got their god king to support them hence silencing any criticism. But you call this “pragmatic”, “opportunistic”, “flexible”?!

  Tell that to the 14 million Thai Rak Thai voters whose government – and party – was stolen from them by this coup: “no no no, you villagers have got it wrong. Don’t blame the king, the privy council, the military, or the Bangkok middle class for the coup. In fact the coup was just the result of the pragmatic aspect of your unique “Thai culture”. Believe me, I’m an academic and I have studied this kind of thing. Democracy is going to be a hard struggle for you because coups unfortunately are just a part of Thai culture. In fact, you might as well give up – unless you want to reject your culture. Don’t get too upset about the coup. You just need to be flexible.”

  This idiotic explanation is worthy of the junta apologists writing for The Nation – or even Phujatkan.

• 10 Democratus // Aug 5, 2007 at 11:49 pm

  Vichai and nganadeeleg: Where are your condemnations of human rights abuses now? Where are your condemnations of the use of police and military power to prevent political expression? Where have you condemned the current spate of killings and arbitrary arrests and unlawful detentions in the south by an out of control military? Sure, it is reasonable to ask Andrew to defend his positions, but you can do the same, surely. It should be possible to condemn human rights abuses by all sides, right?

• 11 Tosakan // Aug 6, 2007 at 5:45 am

  Vichai-

  Where is your evidence, in Thai or English, that Thaksin was personally responsible for every extra-judicial killing during the War on Drugs? Where is the smoking gun?

  And please tell me why not one victim of that WOD has sued Thaksin, the police, or any other ministers who were responsible for executing the WOD?

  You expect Andrew and others to condemn Thaksin, based on what, your personal feelings? I’m sorry but your personal feelings about Thaksin are not a fair substitute for evidence.

  By the way, Thaksin and his cronies have been out of power for almost a year, where are the human rights abuses charges?

  Why don’t you organize all of Thaksin’s victims and help them start a class-action lawsuit, considering you have evidence that none of have seen?

  The Thai media cried how Thaksin repressed all their courageous reporting, yet not one Thai media outlet, in English or Thai, has uncovered Thaksin’s nefarious empire for the whole world to see. The Thai government hasn’t complained to the British that it is harboring a fugitive from justice. The Thai press hasn’t worked with the British press to report on Thaksin’s so-called crimes.

  Now, considering you are making the same dubious claims as the irresponsible Thai media, I would love to see your evidence.

  I am sure that Andrew will link to it, I certainly will.

• 12 nganadeeleg // Aug 6, 2007 at 9:14 am

  Where is your evidence, in Thai or English, that Thaksin was personally responsible for every extra-judicial killing during the War on Drugs? Where is the smoking gun?

  Presumably you are not now denying that extra-judicial killings took place?

  - Who instigated the ‘war on drugs’ ?
  - Who was the authoritarian/autocratic leader at the time who had the power to modify the rules of engagement to stop the killing spree as soon as it was known what was happening?
  - Who had the power to commence thorough investigations while the evidence was fresh?
  - How many victims of the Holocaust did Hitler personally kill?

  Tosakan (Fonzi), you seem to have changed your mind about the war on drugs over recent months – I recall you previously saying you were so concerned about it in the past that you wrote letters to the editors of papers about it – What new evidence do you have to make you change your mind?

• 13 nganadeeleg // Aug 6, 2007 at 9:40 am

  Where are your condemnations of human rights abuses now? Where are your condemnations of the use of police and military power to prevent political expression? Where have you condemned the current spate of killings and arbitrary arrests and unlawful detentions in the south by an out of control military?

  I have expressed my views in relation to the UDD protest violence over at Bangkok Pundit’s site:
  In a nutshell, from what I have seen, I think the police and military were surprisingly restrained when the UDD tried to provoke violence.
  In relation to the arrest of the UDD leaders, I have said that I would prefer if they were released under strict bail conditions to keep the protests at a designated area (Sanam Luang)

  As for other human rights abuses under the junta, well IMO they pale into insignificance when compared to Thaksin’s reign, particularly his extra-judicial ‘war on drugs’ killing spree, however I have expressed my concerns about the heavy handedness in dealing with the southern insurgency and possible vigilante killings from time to time (mainly on Bangkok Pundit’s blog site), where I stressed the importance of justice.
  I certainly don’t want to see a repeat of the heavy handedness that occurred under Thaksin’s leadership, so I welcome the addition of your voice in this matter.

  You should also bear in mind that the main reason I bother to comment here is to counter the Thaksin ‘love-in’ that Andrew, Republican and a few others have created here at New Mandala.
  Of course I have concerns about where Thai politics is heading under the junta, but I also disagree with Andrew’s main theme that Thaksin had an electoral majority and therefore all his wrongdoings are irrelevant.

• 14 Grasshopper // Aug 6, 2007 at 10:54 am

  Vichai, ‘Think for yourself, question authority’? Alright – since you say so!

  So the people who are convinced by a reformation of TRT, the King, the new constitution or even The Andrew “Dastardly” Walker – are irrelevant?

  Remember Vichai that they are people too. As for your arguments, they have now been debunked because it is obvious that your motivation lies within not having the power that others do. Maybe put in the hard work and you will become relevant to some people too!

• 15 Vichai N // Aug 6, 2007 at 11:52 am

  But Tosakan I am NOT the only one!

  Nearly every Thai, nearly every newspaper, nearly every bloggers in this forum and Andrew Walker, Bangkok Pundit and ThailandJumpedtheShark, were all APPLAUDING Thaksin Shinawatra as the man responsible for the success of 2002-05 anti-drugs! Nearly everyone.

  I think what they is left for debate is the matter of statistics: was it 2,500, or 3,500 or 8,000 villagers that were extrajudicially killed during Thaksin’s extrajudicial rampage Tosakan?

• 16 bangkokpundit // Aug 6, 2007 at 5:18 pm

  “Nearly every Thai, nearly every newspaper, nearly every bloggers in this forum and Andrew Walker, Bangkok Pundit and ThailandJumpedtheShark, were all APPLAUDING Thaksin Shinawatra as the man responsible for the success of 2002-05 anti-drugs! Nearly everyone”

  Do you have any evidence to back up your claim about moi? Although, it is typical of you to make wild allegations without supporting evidence.

• 17 Andrew Walker // Aug 6, 2007 at 6:27 pm

  et moi?

• 18 Vichai N // Aug 6, 2007 at 8:14 pm

  Bangkok Pundit either you condemn or applaud Thaksin Shinawatra PERSONALLY for the extrajudicially killings or not? So which one are you?

  I have made occassional forays in your blogsite . . . you have NOT made clear your position either way . . so I assume, oh well, “breaking up with Thaksin is so hard to do . . . ” Unless you are with the evidence camp a-la Fonzi, I mean Tosakan, Patiwat (your sidekick) and many more Manchester City followers and fans . . .

• 19 Democratus // Aug 7, 2007 at 3:09 am

  So, in other words, nganadeeleg you are an apologist for the junta!
  IMHO you can’t pick and choose which human rights abusers you support.

  Vichai, where are you on this?

• 20 nganadeeleg // Aug 7, 2007 at 9:47 am

  Democratus: If you are talking about the coup, yes I have chosen to accept it, and to date, any human rights abuses under the junta’s reign are not in the same league as those under Thaksin’s reign (thankfully).

  It’s not a perfect world, but at least the very dangerous Thaksin is out of power – it’s a pity it took the military to do something that the masses should have done.

  Anyway, IMO some human rights are more important than others, and if valuing the right to life over the right to protest means I am labelled an apologist for the junta, then so be it.

  If you are a regular reader of New Mandala you should know that there are recurring themes being promoted by regular posters here:

  AW: Defends the masses for making wise choices – prepared to gloss over any Thaksin wrongdoings.

  Republican: Hates the monarchy and many of his fellow academics

  Nganadeeleg: see myself as the antidote to AW & Republican – Critical of Thaksin, critical of TRT for not standing up to him & critical of the electoral masses for not rejecting him once his real objectives became apparent.
  (Accepts the junta ridding Thailand of Thaksin because the people wouldn’t, and hopes the people will learn something from the Thaksin experience and be more discerning in the future as it’s the only way for the cycle of coups to stop)

  Vichai: Early posts were over the top, but has ended up one of the most sensible posters here.

  Where do you stand, Democratus?

• 21 Vichai N // Aug 7, 2007 at 2:24 pm

  Let’s hear it from Bangkok Pundit – - how judge he Thaksin’s extra-judicial record?

• 22 Tosakan // Aug 7, 2007 at 4:54 pm

  For the record, I have never applauded Thaksin for anything.

  I thought the War on Drugs was a good idea. Like most law-abiding people in the country, I was sick and tired of seeing crazy Ya Ba psychos holding people at knife point in the news everyday. I was tired of seeing our youth being eaten away by what was a very serious drug scourge at the time.

  And, during that war, I was outraged that only the small fish were being fried, when the fact remains that police and military generals have been integral to the drug trade for decades, which probably is the reason for all the extra-judicial killings. All the little guys were being murdered so they wouldn’t rat on the big guys.

  Thailand has been a entrepot for the international drug trade for hundreds of years. Police and military forces have been involved with this trade for decades, and have murdered people who have upset their vice rackets. This isn’t something I made up. This information is documented in many books.

  To say Thaksin was responsible for all the recent murder and mayhem regarding that trade is ludicrous. There is not one piece of evidence documented proving that Thaksin was telling the police and military to murder drug dealers. If there was, how come the current juntacrats haven’t given us the documentation? Why haven’t they slipped the information to the junta friend Thai press.

  Those who attack Thaksin for human rights abuses seem to conveniently forget that the police and military have been at the core of extra-judicial violence since 1932 and they are still at the core of extra-judicial violence today.

  After all, they, not Thaksin, are the ones with the weapons, and they have proved this time and time again every time they have capriciously overthrown the government by marching soldiers and tanks into the center of Bangkok, and when they have made people mysteriously disappear every time anybody has opposed their rule.

  Some of Thaksin haters here think Thai history began in 2001; it didn’t.

• 23 Patisserie // Aug 7, 2007 at 7:44 pm

  Tosakin:

  “There is not one piece of evidence documented proving that Thaksin was telling the police and military to murder drug dealers.”

  Thaksin as a PM may not directly tell the police and military to murder, but he did encourage those guys (and the justice system) to act in that way. The discourse on illicit drugs has been around for 50 years, but it was heightened during his administration.

  War on Drugs was a bad idea from the beginning. Giving bonus points to the police and police stations based on the number of arrests, plus more “commission” if the cases went on trails, and properties being confiscated. Why should a (poor) person is sentenced for 50 years for selling 20 pills? Is this how the world supposed to work? What is wrong with the justice system and social perception of drugs in Thailand? This is still ongoing – as many people are still jailed and sentenced without fair trials (not to mention the 2500 killings). Those that are jailed and dead are the poorest sectors of the society, deprived of social and cultural capital to speak for themselves. I remember a couple years ago I was watching TV in Bangkok on the killing of Hmong guy in Chiang Mai, and the police were raiding the house that belong to him and his family. The news was talking about how the guy was a drug dealer and the police would confiscate his house and property. His wife and kids were in tears. No questions asked regarding how these assets were acquired. It was already a given that if the guy was involved in drugs, automatically he was evil and everything he/his family own must be confiscated as they deserved to be “punished”.

  Somehow along the way, drugs are demonized and people who deal/trade drugs are stigmatized and do not deserve to be human, that even the most progressive academics and social activists in this country are not too keen to look into this matter.

• 24 Vichai N // Aug 7, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  Pattisserie now you are deliberately passing on misinformation and lies in this forum! (I suspect Fonzi’s hand in this misinformation)

  http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0203/86/

  Quotes:
  “Between February and April 2003 the Thaksin government incited police and public officials to organize and endorse murder in the name of ridding the country of drugs. Through a series of official orders and public statements, the government pushed officials to massively overstep their normal authority. It also set up numerous positive and negative incentives, including promises of financial rewards and promotions, and threats of transfers and dismissals. ”

  “. . . The Prime Minister (Thaksin) boosted incentives in two sets of regulations issued on February 11. One of those was the Prime Minister’s Office Regulations on Bonuses and Rewards Relating to Narcotics (No. 3). This document amended two earlier reward regimes, and effectively encouraged the murder of drug suspects by providing grades of bonuses where the most efficient and expedient means for officials to be rewarded was simply to kill the accused:

  Article 18 of the Prime Minister’s Office Regulations on Bonuses and Rewards Relating to Narcotics BE 2537 (1994), which had been amended by the Prime Minister’s Office Regulations on Bonuses and Rewards Relating to Narcotics (No. 2) BE 2540 (1997)… shall be replaced by the following statements:

  “Article 18: The bonus shall be given when officials proceed with a notified case leading to arrest according to the following rules and conditions:
  (1) In a case where both the alleged offender is arrested and the exhibited narcotics are seized, if the value calculated based on the quantity of narcotics does not exceed 1000 Baht, each case shall be paid not exceeding 1000 Baht, after the Public Prosecutor has issued a prosecution order. If the case falls under Section 92 of the Narcotics Control Act BE 2522 (1979) and Section 17 of the Royal Ordinance of the Control on the Use of Volatile Substances BE 2533 (1990), the bonus shall not be paid.
  (2) In a case where the alleged offender is arrested and the exhibited narcotics are seized, if the value calculated based on the quantity of narcotics exceeds 1000 Baht
  (a) In a case where the Public Prosecutor issues a prosecution order, the bonus calculated based on the quantity of narcotics may be paid in half before the Public Prosecutor issues a prosecution order. The remaining amount is to be paid in full when the Public Prosecutor has issued a prosecution order.
  (b) The bonus calculated based on the quantity of narcotics shall be paid only in half if the Public Prosecutor has issued a non-prosecution order, or ceased the proceedings.
  (3) In a case where both the alleged offender is arrested and the exhibited narcotics are seized, but the alleged offender loses his life during the arrest or thereafter, if the value calculated based on the quantity of narcotics exceeds 1000 Baht, the bonus shall be paid according to the quantity of narcotics when the Public Prosecutor has ceased the proceedings.
  (4) In a case where only the exhibited narcotics are seized after the Public Prosecutor has stayed the inquiry, issued a prosecution or non-prosecution order, if the value calculated based on the quantity of narcotics exceeds 1000 Baht, only half of the bonus shall be paid.”
  (Unofficial translation of article 4, italics added to subsection 3)

  At later dates, certain rewards were increased so that, for instance, a state official seizing property that had been purchased with drug money could get up to 40 per cent of its value . . . ”

  Thaksin Shinawatra gave shoot-to-kill orders is the reason the number of kills reached 2,500 during the first three months Jan-Mar2003
  during Thaksin’s anti-yaa baa madness.

• 25 Vichai N // Aug 7, 2007 at 10:43 pm

  And to Tosakan (Fonzi the Shark to his fans) who ‘for the record’ never applauded Thaksin for anything but has one blogsite dedicated to insult The Nation and Bangkok Post, while defending angrily Thaksin’s right to be ‘innocent’ until proven otherwise, my personal congratulations. If this is how you do NOT applaud Thaksin, your sincere applause must be truly deafening.

  Thaksin himself during the whole anti-drugs campaign from start to finish was prominently in
  the limelight, to make certain that the Thai people know he was the master maestro behind the deadly bloody horrific war against the very poor nearly illiterate village SUSPECTS. Thaksin will not be denied his TV credits and hurrahs for the anti-drugs Tosakan . . . so why do you persist to remove the extrajudicial gloss from the anti-drugs hero and star?

  Bangkok Pundit and Patiwat, what says you both about Thaksin’s courage, bravery and heroism during the anti-drugs war?

• 26 Democratus // Aug 8, 2007 at 4:27 am

  Dear nganadeeleg, thank you for your frank statement of your acceptance of human rights abuses by the military junta. That is clear now.

  Of course, if you had read my posting carefully, you’d know that I was not asking about the coup. I set out the questions.

  My view: all human rights abuses are to be abhored.

• 27 nganadeeleg // Aug 8, 2007 at 9:28 am

  Democratus: Whilst I agree with your view that all human rights abuses are to be abhorred, I also frankly admit that I am lazy and a realist.

  I therefore have chosen to devote my limited time to countering the Thaksin love-in here at New Mandala, lest readers fall under the spell of the likes of AW & Republican and somehow believe that Thaksin could do no wrong because he was electorally popular.

• 28 Grasshopper // Aug 8, 2007 at 11:00 am

  I would agree with Democratus if there was a more up to date, less liberal version of the universal declaration of human rights. I think if there is a good system then monsters would not be made of people like Thaksin, irrespective of how tainted he is with Singaporean lucre!

• 29 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Aug 8, 2007 at 5:04 pm

  Now for something more light-hearted: a riddle.

  In the near future, Thai intelligence agents, in concert with agents from the Vieng Republic, forcibly extradite Thaksin back to Thailand to face charges. When his case comes to trial, the judge says, “If you make a true statement, I will sentence to 40 years; if you make a false statement, I will sentence you to death.” Thaksin speaks a single sentence and the judge sets him free.
  Tell me, what did Thaksin say?
  (Hint: It has nothing to do with Khmer voodoo.)

• 30 Encouraging the rural vote // Aug 8, 2007 at 5:20 pm

  [...] how we love those rural voters when they have no choice: The day after the Aug 19 referendum has been declared a public holiday, to encourage rural voters [...]

• 31 Vichai N // Aug 9, 2007 at 12:13 am

  I will hold my breath for Bangkok Pundit, Patiwat and Tosakan and they can take all the time they need to wrestle with their conscience (more difficult than wrestling with crocodiles I am told).

• 32 Bangkok Pundit // Aug 9, 2007 at 3:48 am

  Vichai:

  Shouldn’t the one making accusations provide the evidence first? This is not the first time you have made such accusations then I answer and you ignore me, but only repeat the accusation again.

  I personally have never supported a or any “war on drugs”. I disagree with the killing of any suspect where the killing was not in self-defence. Instances where government officials claim self-defence should ideally be investigated – ideally, each murder in the South should be investigated as well.

  Are we satisfied? I hope I don’t have to respond to the same question next time.

• 33 Democratus // Aug 10, 2007 at 4:14 am

  Oh nganadeeleg! Thank you so very much for taking the time to save me from Thaksin lovers. If your voice wasn’t here, I’d have absolutely no idea that Thaksin was a a bad guy at the head of a nasty government. My only source of information on Thailand is NM, so your moderating and correcting voice provides a little heard perspective. Yeah, right….

• 34 nganadeeleg // Aug 10, 2007 at 8:44 am

  Democratus: Thanks for your kind words – glad to know I am appreciated.

• 35 Can the War on Drugs be Justified or Excused? Arguing Thaksin’s Case « Thaksin Skeptic: Supporting Manchester City, Democracy and Human Rights // Aug 10, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  [...] the question of responsibility in the Southeast Asian corner of the academic blogosphere; see this recent debate (in the comments) from The New Mandala for an [...]

• 36 nganadeeleg // Aug 14, 2007 at 2:37 pm

  Why am I not surprised that Andrew linked to the section at Thad Williamson’s excellent blog site that looks at trying to justify or excuse Thaksin.

  Here’s a link to part II of that argument, and Vichai’s excellent comment:
  http://thaksinskeptic.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/mitigating-factors-arguing-thaksins-case-ii/#comments

  The three part series of posts making the case against Thaksin are also worth reading.
  (I have no interest in Manchester City or ‘football’, but I congratulate Thad on his considerable efforts in maintaining his blog)

• 37 Andrew Walker // Aug 14, 2007 at 2:47 pm

  Pardon? I presume you are referring to the link in comment 35. That is an incoming link from Thad Williamson’s site to New Mandala not the other way around. I recently had a post promoting Thad’s site:

  http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2007/08/07/thaksin-skeptic/

  And that post links to other material by Thad that New Mandala has hosted. In fact I suspect New Mandala has done more to disseminate Thad’s intelligent views than any other website in the world!

• 38 Thad Williamson // Aug 14, 2007 at 3:57 pm

  Thanks Andrew and nganadeeleg. I very much appreciate New Mandala’s linking to the blog, I have learned a lot from reading this site the last few months.

  As to disseminating my views, it’s a three-way battle at the moment between you all, the Guardian (UK) Football website where I post fairly often, and “Blue Moon,” a message board for Manchester City fans. Although a lot of the City fans are tired of hearing about the debate about Thaksin at this point, especially now that the season has started. I’m going to discuss this in an upcoming post, but the predominant attitude at the moment among relatively thoughtful City fans (the ones who aren’t like “he killed drug dealers? Let’s make him PM of Britain” or “what the toss do I care about what he did in Thailand? He’s good for City”) is, “look the guy’s controversial, there’s arguments on both sides, but if he was really so bad the government would step in and not let him do business here, so who am I to judge any different?”

• 39 nganadeeleg // Aug 14, 2007 at 7:43 pm

  My apologies Andrew – I misinterpreted post 35 as a post by you linking to that particular site.
  (because for some reason whenever I see ‘[...]‘ I thought it was something the blog administrator did – I’m slowly learning about this internet stuff).

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