New Mandala

30 responses so far ↓

• 1 Historicus // Aug 14, 2007 at 1:54 am

  Andrew, while I understand your outrage, ANU has often done this kind of thing – remember the LKY dispute! But maybe attending and debating is worthy. I think some of the apologists are beginning to have second thoughts, and it might be worth probing them a bit. Just a thought.

• 2 Republican // Aug 14, 2007 at 3:24 am

  An anonymous well-wisher has just sent me a sneak preview of the National Thai Studies Centre’s upcoming seminar series on the “current political situation” in a number of countries in the Asian region as well as further afield, by speakers who are every bit if not more entertaining as the group sent by Thailand’s royalist junta. It seems that Thailand has many admirers. Here’s part of the blurb they sent me.

  […] As part of its efforts to promote Thai Studies and “Thai Culture” the ANU’s National Thai Studies Centre is proud to present the following seminar series highlighting the efforts of well-meaning but misunderstood regimes and freedom fighters to advance democracy:

  The Burmese Junta: “Burmese Democracy: One Step Back, Two Steps Forward, the Thai Way”

  Kim Jong Il: “The Way Ahead for North Korean Democracy: Juche and the Sufficiency Economy, a Comparative Study”

  Robert Mugabe: “Democracy in Zimbabwe: Don’t Believe What They Say, or, How We Can Learn from the Thais”

  Osama Bin Laden: “Democracy the Jihad Way: What Jihadists can learn from Thailand’s ‘Coup for a Democratic System with the Great King as Head of State’”

  and a special one-off guest lecture by,

  The Crown Prince of Thailand: “My Contribution to the Flowering of Democracy in Thailand, October 6 1976 – 2007” (a reception will be organized for invited guests after the seminar. Dress requirement: not needed).

  Given the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ well-known commitment to advancing democracy the Royal Thai Embassy, Canberra, will be chairing these seminars. […]

  (OK. I also thought this preview looked a bit fishy when I read it and I would check the program first with the ANU’s National Thai Studies Centre to make sure it is kosha. But there is nothing fishy about the NTSC’s support for the royalist dictatorship in Thailand by agreeing to hold this “exclusive talks”. Why on earth can they not get a real democrat to speak? Get Jaturon, or even Jakraphop, if he’s out of jail yet. I ask the same question that I have asked of other Thai Studies institutions: don’t they understand what is going on in Thailand (in which case you may as well close down the NTSC given that such an institution is exactly the institution that SHOULD know what is happening), or, worse, they DO know what is happening, and they are actually WILLINGLY giving their support to the royalist dictatorship?)

  And can I please make a request to NM to propose a seminar topic to the NTSC which might reflect the reality of the situation in Thailand?

  “The Monarchy as the Principle Obstacle to Democratization in Thailand, and How to Overcome It”

• 3 Leopold // Aug 14, 2007 at 4:22 am

  Seriously, if Republican can express his view here, I don’t see why the Thai junta’s panel can’t express theirs at ANU.

• 4 nganadeeleg // Aug 14, 2007 at 9:41 am

  Why on earth can they not get a real democrat to speak? Get Jaturon, or even Jakraphop, if he’s out of jail yet.

  Jakrapob might not help your cause too much, Republican, if these reports are correct:
  “Jakrapob Penkair, an executive of the banned People’s Television (PTV) station and a protest leader, claims to have in his possession video footage from the palace on the night of the coup that shows King Bhumibol Adulyadej asking the coup makers why they had staged the coup – proof, he says, that the palace had no prior knowledge of the military’s intervention despite its vigorous mobilization of royal symbolism that evening. ”
  http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IH10Ae02.html

• 5 nganadeeleg // Aug 14, 2007 at 9:50 am

  Seriously, if Republican can express his view here, I don’t see why the Thai junta’s panel can’t express theirs at ANU.

  Seems like Andrew is practicing his own form of censorship according to comments by Vichai N on Bangkok Pundit’s site.
  http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/power-struggle.html#1024149834604261042

  Very poor form, Andrew.

• 6 Andrew Walker // Aug 14, 2007 at 10:42 am

  We welcome and encourage all viewpoints on New Mandala. We have given Vichai a great deal of coverage (try searching for “Vichai” in the search box above). We would welcome any further contributions from him on issues of substance. The two comments we deleted were personal rants against Bangkok Pundit that added nothing to Vichai’s previous contributions. None of his opinions have been censored.

• 7 jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 12:46 pm

  That is new Andrew. I myself had quite a few lively personal rant exchanges with Anon and a few others.

  What has come Andrew being so overly protective of Bangkok Pundit who of all people should have been able to parry for himself.

• 8 Andrew Walker // Aug 14, 2007 at 1:22 pm

  I wasn’t trying to protect BP. Vichai had made his points (about BP and other matters) already. If you look at the relevant string of comments you will see Vichai had a very good run:

  http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2007/08/03/sufficiency-democracy-in-action/

  The deleted comments added nothing to what had gone before. If Vichai has anything more of substance to add he is very welcome to post it.

• 9 mike // Aug 14, 2007 at 2:37 pm

  While the panel is obviously apologist, I don’t see them as simple mouthpieces of the Thai State. Somchai has a long history in human rights work critical of the Thai government, and Krisak was one of the few outspoken senators when he was in that position. They are obviously put together because they all commonly held very strong anti Thaksin views, particularly on human rights. But this gives the audience a perfect opportunity to question their commitment to these rights by asking about political rights currently in Thailand, including the appauling standard of freedom of expression.

  The PR of the current Junta is so appauling that it is perhaps perversly fun to watch them flop one more time

• 10 Republican // Aug 14, 2007 at 3:55 pm

  Mike doesn’t get it. They could sing nursery rhymes at the seminar for all they care. Do you seriously NOT know the answer to the question whether these guys care about political rights in Thailand? They are working for and being paid by by a dictatorship; isn’t it obvious? The issue is not whether we are going to learn anything from this exercise, it is whether it is worth sullying the ANU’s once proud reputation in Thai Studies by foolishly, naively, irresponsibly contributing to the junta’s propaganda by hosting this event. The objective of the seminar is purely so that the junta’s propaganda machine back home (where it matters) , especially Sondhi Lim’s media, can trumpet: “Following successful visits to the leading Thai Studies institutions in Europe and the UK the “war room” concluded their tour with a lively seminar at the ANU’s National Thai Studies Centre, known as one of the world’s leading centres for the study of Thailand. While a few foreigners who don’t understand Thai culture expressed a number of concerns the panel reassured them that Thailand’s democratic development will soon be back on track … etc. etc.”

  For you it might be “fun” to see the junta’s PR team at the ANU “flop”, but think about the purpose of the propaganda: justifying the armed overthrow of a democratically-elected government, the exile of its leader, and the dissolution of a mass political party, and legitimizing a new Constitution and political order that seeks to weaken as much as possible the power of politicians, the elected representatives of the people. Not “fun” for the people.

  If Leopold can’t tell the difference between Republican posting an opinion on a blog, and the ANU’s flagship for Thai Studies, the NTSC, hosting a visit by a propaganda team sent and paid for by the junta for political purposes, well that just demonstrates your total lack of understanding of how Thai Studies institutions are being used by the junta. And you want people to take you “seriously”? By all means, let these guys send a post on NM so their views can be heard alongside Republican’s – as though we don’t already know what they will say. Or let the Embassy host the event; it’s not as though it is very far for ANU people to travel there to attend. But just don’t give them what they are coming to Canberra to get: the stamp of international academic approval conferred by the ANU’s imprimatur.

  In the interests of transparency I hope that Andrew can find out how the NTSC came to be involved in this exercise. Who contacted whom first, whether hosting propaganda panels sent by military juntas – while half of Thailand is still under martial law and political opposition is heavily censored – is now NTSC policy. Did the whole committee agree to it? Or only some members? Who?

  If the NTSC is going to go through with this then the global Thai Studies community of scholars should clearly understand what this means: anything the ANU’s NTSC says in the future about “human rights” or “democracy” in Thailand is absolute hypocrisy.

• 11 Grasshopper // Aug 14, 2007 at 5:47 pm

  I am very much in favour of the ANU providing a platform for the presentation of a diverse range of views.

  I think at the SOAS event, people were for some reason reserved in asking good questions. Maybe the forthcoming event can provide the platform for a more serious Q&A? It doesn’t have to be negative. Sure initially it is a PR event, but it doesn’t have to end that way….

• 12 jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:09 pm

  “The deleted comments added nothing to what had gone before. If Vichai has anything more of substance to add he is very welcome to post it.” – Andrew Walker

  Now that was YOUR opinion Andrew Walker, and yours opinion alone. You welcome Vichai but you pick on him (you don’t pick on me), and specifically on that ‘extrajudicial killings debate’ going on that you chose to cut-off, by YOUR own opinion because you Andrew Walker believe Vichai has nothing more of substance to add . . .

  It is more than bad form Andrew Walker . . . you WERE protecting BangkokPundit but BP does NOT your protection, you said so yourself!

• 13 jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:15 pm

  “The deleted comments added nothing to what had gone before. If Vichai has anything more of substance to add he is very welcome to post it.” – Andrew Walker

  Now that was YOUR opinion Andrew Walker, and yours opinion alone. You welcome Vichai but you decide what Vichai posts! And specifically you pushed your special ‘delete-Vichai-button’ on the heat of ‘extrajudicial killings debate’ (effectively shutting down the debate) by YOUR own sole opinion because you Andrew Walker believe Vichai had nothing more of substance to add . . .

  It is more than bad form Andrew Walker . . . but I just cannot put my suspicious finger on what the hell you are about . . .

• 14 jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:18 pm

  Andrew Walker – - the สฟะำพ poster
  jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:15 pm

  supersedes the earlier
  jeru // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:09 pm

  that is if you don’t elect TO DELETE both.

• 15 Nicholas Farrelly // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:51 pm

  Dear Jeru,

  Thanks for your defence of Vichai. Your posts would, however, be far more credible if you weren’t both posting from the same IP.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nicholas Farrelly

• 16 jeru // Aug 15, 2007 at 12:45 am

  Was that the same IP as Vichai, I wouldn’t know. I use so many proxy servers I lose track. With Thaksin’s extrajudicial police goons still loose, it helps to play it safe and suspicious even with respected websites like New Mandala.

• 17 jeru // Aug 15, 2007 at 1:25 am

  I did not realize Vichai needs any defense Nicolas Farrelly . . .
  Do bloggers at New Mandala who disrespects Thaksin Shinawatra for his extrajudicial crimes, and ,gets their posters blocked by Andrew Walker, need defending?

  Now I want to ask you Nicolas Farrelly, considering you being personally protective of Andrew Walker, who was unduly protective of Bangkok Pundit: Who will protect you if ask you with this question: Do you think Andrew Walker should apologize to Vichai N for blocking Vichai\’s posters . . . for hell knows what reason?

• 18 jeru // Aug 15, 2007 at 1:26 am

  I did not realize Vichai needs any defense Nicolas Farrelly . . .
  Do bloggers at New Mandala who disrespect Thaksin Shinawatra for his extrajudicial crimes, and ,gets their posters blocked by Andrew Walker, need defending?

  Now I want to ask you Nicolas Farrelly, considering you being personally protective of Andrew Walker, who was unduly protective of Bangkok Pundit: Who will protect you if ask you with this question: Do you think Andrew Walker should apologize to Vichai N for blocking Vichai\’s posters . . . for hell knows what reason?

• 19 jeru // Aug 15, 2007 at 1:33 am

  Just two more questions Nicolas Farrelly: Why can’t Andrew Walker answer for himself? Can you two really disengage the subjective from the objective in any debate – - and personal rants are subjective, aren’t they, or are they objective? or are they both?

• 20 Leopold // Aug 15, 2007 at 4:51 am

  Republican, I do know the differences between a blog and an academic institution, but don’t you think they, too, have some similarities, one of which is to be a platform for different viewpoints.
  I think Grasshopper made this point already.
  SOAS hosted this kind of PR event, and it’s still SOAS.
  I’m not sure that an institution’s decision to allow Thai panel making their case is enough to justify the whole coup and its aftermath. Because if it is, it’ll mean that the Thai government’s already succeeded this kind of justification long ago and one more will make no difference anyway.
  If you’re really not happy with the upcoming event and the current Thai regime, why don’t you just go to ANU, say whatever you want to say about them and tell the audiences your side of story.

• 21 Grasshopper // Aug 15, 2007 at 12:31 pm

  lol @ the many personalities that make up ‘Jeruchai’

• 22 Awzar Thi // Aug 15, 2007 at 1:23 pm

  Republican: I think you may have misread the seminar series blurb. The one that I received reads,

  The Burmese Junta: “Burmese Democracy: Two Steps Back, One Step Forward, the Thai Way”

• 23 Serious Thai // Aug 17, 2007 at 1:10 am

  Guys…as a Thai, I am very much appreciated about you guys interest in Thai urrent cpolitics situation but I think the issue of NTSC holding the siminar and invited the speakers from Bangkok has nothing to do what so ever with NTSC being the “mouthpiece” or “stage” for Thai junta PR team. I found this rather absurd claim.
  I mean, why you guys come up with such idea? Andrew Walker specially. You referred to the Nation report on junta PR mission to various countries…may I ask you … how much do you know about media in Thailand? could it be possible that they were just link up any possibility to just make the simple matter sound worst than it is? which I think in this kind of report, it is just that.

  Obviously the NTSC held such conference annually for many years now and there’s always speakers from Thailand presented their views and answer questions on this stage, there’s never a report on the Nation even when there’s a speaker came from the Nation’s camp!

  So guys, step outside a bit and see what’s shaking in the real world of Thai politics. I wish the delegation who will be coming to the conference knows that there’s this outrage discussion on NM blog about their influence on this trip…they’ll laugh their head off. Seriously

• 24 Andrew Walker // Aug 17, 2007 at 9:35 am

  Thanks Serious Thai. I look forward to your university hosting a “discussion on the political situation in Australia leading up to the 2007 election” that features only speakers nominated by the Prime Minister’s office.

• 25 Serious Thai // Aug 17, 2007 at 11:20 am

  Thanks to Andrew Walker for the response. I think positively and regardless of who the speakers might be, the “discussion on the political situation in Australia” at my university or any university that offer Australian study courses will be a good education session for Thai students or anyone interested to listen, question, and learn about Australian politics and situation leading up to the upcoming election anyway. For NTSC’s role as a host for the issue regarding the current Thai politics at this crucial time, it is very timely and appropriate in the sense that the session will be open to everyone -even the least open-minded and short-sighted academic. All will be welcome and questions will be open anyway. However, considering that NTSC has played the role in studying the development of the situation on Thailand especially at this time when the upcoming vote on the referendum will affect the country’s future, if this isn’t a good place and time, then when? and where?

• 26 Srithanonchai // Aug 17, 2007 at 8:55 pm

  What conference? It is the same group of people travelling as representatives of the PR “war room” of the PM’s office that went to the UK (SOAS) and Germany (Berlin) with the specific brief to defend the coup (minus Sulak, plus the former embassador).

• 27 Republican // Aug 21, 2007 at 1:31 am

  The thing that disgusts me about the ANU’s National Thai Studies Centre’s hosting of the seminar by the “War Room” and those who support it on this blog is the insensitivity to the political situation in Thailand. Over the last year a democratically-elected government has been overthrown, a royalist dictatorship set up, both with the endorsement of the King, martial law imposed on the country (which is still in place in half the country) the powers of the military greatly expanded, the media heavily censored, the Thai Rak Thai party destroyed by a tribunal set up by the junta and given public support by the King, and now a deeply undemocratic Constitution drafted by a junta-appointed committee and passed under conditions which were profoundly unfree and unfair. After everything that has happened, now the ANU’s NTSC wants to give its support to a propaganda team sent by the junta with the explicit task of building PR for the regime. What is that?

• 28 jeru // Aug 21, 2007 at 2:14 am

  But of course Republican is disgusted. Only the deeply revered monarchy stood in the way of corrupt Thaksin’s (or Chaturon’s) ambitions for a Chavez-like (or Mugabe-like take your pick) one-party Republican political system for Thailand.

  The Thai Isans and the rural poor are easy game to manipulative politicians with Chavez-Mugabe size ambitions.

  Why am I pleased every time Republican is disgusted . . .

• 29 Surayud’s “war room” comes to Canberra // Aug 21, 2007 at 9:11 am

  [...] the National Thai Studies Centre (NTSC) at the ANU decided to host an official delegation despatched by the military junta’s public relations “war room” (not my [...]

• 30 A loose cannon in the “war room” // Aug 23, 2007 at 1:24 pm

  [...] NTSC’s sufficiency “discussion” on the current political situation in Thailand. As noted in previous posts the panellists for the discussion were the members of a Thai government public relations team [...]

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