Thailand an example ?

Thailand has had 30 years, and an extraordinary window of opportunity from an historical point of view, right after the end of Vietnam war…

Look what they did of it…

The necrosis is total.

Well said. The statement does not appear equivocal.

Sparta,

The “You farang will never understand” is weak argument to hang your hat on. Clearly there is not a single Thai view on this. Maybe you are a Thai, maybe not. Same with me. So let’s focus on the strengths of the arguments, not who they come from.

I am not a Thaksin supporter and was initially open to the coup. I think his association with Newin Chitchob is as revolting as the actions of Saprang, Banowit and Prachai. Criminals all of them.

However, when it became clear that the junta’s plan was not to restore balance, but to cement the control of the elite and all of consequent benefits, I saw the military for what it was.

The statement above is very clear that the crimes of the military in less than one year, dwarf the crimes of Thaksin.

It seems to me to be impossible to actually believe that Thaksin’s popularity was based purely on bribes and not at all on a deal made to improve the lives of the poor.

Yes, Thai democracy is corrupt. The Democrats, Chart Thai and other parties have also bought votes. Is there really any actual evidence that Thaksin was worse?

Why can the ASC find almost nothing on him? If they tried junta buddy Suwat for his role in the Klong Tan dam, a conviction would seem to be a piece of cake.

You seem to be parroting the junta talking points that claim the same actions that are crimes when Thaksin does them are “patriotic” when done by them and their cronies.

But let’s not just discuss this on websites. Join me in the call to have the UN, EU and others oversee the next election. Let prove who is buying votes, shuttering the media, harassing opponents and all the things the above article describes better than I can.

Oh please Jeru, Thaksin did not murder democracy in Thailand. If anything he showed that if you throw the rural poor a few crumbs that they will vote for you without the need to “buy votes” directly. Buying votes directly was the method of the previous political parties. Perhaps you don’t remember when bank branches in the provinces would run out of smaller denomination baht bills the day before a national election.

And Sparta, Thaksin did not rob the country any blinder than his predecessors. His fatal flaw was that he took his “populist” referendum to heart and as you note, it inflated his ego, and then he forgot to share the spoils sufficiently with his equally corrupt and tyrannical peers. As the elected Prime Minister, Thaksin was allowed to take the biggest piece of the pie (kin muang) but he forgot to share, was slapped on the wrist, and asked to leave the room. The new constitution is written to prevent a future charismatic leader, perhaps one with good intentions, from taking the pie out of the room altogether. Rest assured that the ruling elite is far more concerned about a Thai version of Hugo Chavez than another Thaksin, thus the newest anti-democratic constitution.

My perception remains the same. Thaksin murdered Thai democracy, along with thousands of other innocent victims of Thaksin\’s extrajudicial rampage, rule of law violated. Thaksin was definitely murderously destructive provoking the recent military coup.

Was General Sonthi\’s intervention more destructive? Not by my perception and ultimately history will be the judge . . . just as history had judged Philippines General Ramos coup (against the destructive Ferdinand Marcos) positive for the rebirth of Philippine democracy.

If you think that the AHRC statement means that “the junta merely buried the corpse” then you need to work on your skills of interpretation. If one has carefully read the numerous statements from them over the past months you would know that they perceive the junta to have been a much more destructive, active and malign influence on democracy in Thailand than simply burying something that is already dead.

With all due respect to your opinion, I don’t think that you are very biased towards this government. I am no CNS lover nor am the Thaksin’s deciple but I am going to tell you as it is from a Thai perspective.

Think about this “historical facts” and you will have a better understanding of what is happening based upon what has happened:
1. Thaksin is by no means representative of your Western democracy one man one vote but rather a pure dictator that got an ego much bigger than his shoes. He bought his way in unbashfully and robbed the country blind with his nepotistic policy. A tyrant with bundles of money is no different from a tyrant with guns!
2. When you are on the government side with media on your hand, you use it. Period. During the Thaksin’s 5 years of rule, news blackout and immediate transfer of reporters were the daily norm and you can search how many people lost their jobs and livelihood putting Thaksin on the negative side.
3. This referendum is completely useless because more than 90% of the average Thai people did not read nor understand the complexity of its contents. 19 million books was published and distributed and they are gathering dust. Just be real, referendum on 309 articles…. you need to be a constitution lawyer to make any sound judgement of its content but it is just trying legitimize the coup and say SEE more than 50% of the public voted in favor. This is also another bs.
4. People vote yes not because they support this government but they want to go forward with their lives while the people who voted no does not fully support Thaksin either. Only the campaign managers who got the financial support from the Thaksin’s cronies dictated most of the no votes. Bring any of the no voters and ask them simple questions of what they know about this constitution and the answer will be the “100 yards stare” blank face.

On the other hand, I am very sick and tired the noble cause of your human rights especially in the Southern part of Thailand! Where are you when they are killing innocent people day in and day out incessantly. You can blame the government, the agency or any one in power because you know darn well that they won’t shoot you!!!!! Try preach human rights to the blood thirsty southern bandits and see where it will lead you????? It will be the same as the South Korean trying to preach Christianity to the radical Muslim in Afghansitan. Correct me if I’m wrong.!!!!!

The statement by you as I copied part of it is just another example of trying to understand Thai politics from a complete outsider looking in and sad to say most of it is not at all close to reality in Thailand.

Predictably, the military junta in Thailand has coerced, threatened, bought and cajoled part of the electorate into passing its 309-article constitution on August 19. From results to date, just over 14 million people out of the country’s 45 million eligible voters crossed the box in favour of the charter. As only 25 million bothered to turn up at the poll booths, despite the saturating propaganda campaign in the weeks beforehand, this number was sufficient to carry the draft.

Nothing much to add to that common view. Thaksin murdered Thai Democracy, the junta merely buried the corpse. The referendum that followed may indeed be flawed, but surely no more flawed than the massive vote buying that characterized Thaksin’s democracy.

Where is Thai democracy moving from here? Who knows where Thai democracy is right at this moment . . .