<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Chachoengsao: Provincial election commission advertises the election</title>
	<atom:link href="http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/</link>
	<description>New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:46:18 +1100</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-280718</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-280718</guid>
		<description>Polo: I’m not in Thailand so I am not witnessing anything.

From this distance, the impression I get is that the election is being fought on 2 different fronts:

1. For or against Thaksin

2. For or against the military (&amp; royalists)

For simplicity, I would categorize the voters under 4 broad groups:

A.     Bring Thaksin back - we love him
Many Thaksin lovers don’t seem to be bothered at all by his misdeeds (extra judicial killings, policy corruption &amp; tax avoidance etc), so for them it is a simple choice on both fronts.


B.     Democracy overrides everything
Others seem prepared to overlook any of Thaksin&#039;s misdeeds (whether they liked his policies or not) because he was ‘democratically’ elected, and ‘democracy’ overrides everything else - their choice is also simple.


C.     Hate Thaksin
The dislike of Thaksin overides all other considerations - they know who not to vote for.

D.     Anti Thaksin and Anti Military    
The choices are more difficult for those people that cannot overlook Thaksin’s misdeeds, but also don’t like military rule.
They are being forced to hold their nose and choose because a third force has not arisen, and it looks like the Democrats have been unable to distance themselves far enough from the military.


The result will depend on which group is the largest, however I think no matter what the result, we can look forward to another interesting year (or boring, as I expect it will be more of the same).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polo: I’m not in Thailand so I am not witnessing anything.</p>
<p>From this distance, the impression I get is that the election is being fought on 2 different fronts:</p>
<p>1. For or against Thaksin</p>
<p>2. For or against the military (&amp; royalists)</p>
<p>For simplicity, I would categorize the voters under 4 broad groups:</p>
<p>A.     Bring Thaksin back &#8211; we love him<br />
Many Thaksin lovers don’t seem to be bothered at all by his misdeeds (extra judicial killings, policy corruption &amp; tax avoidance etc), so for them it is a simple choice on both fronts.</p>
<p>B.     Democracy overrides everything<br />
Others seem prepared to overlook any of Thaksin&#8217;s misdeeds (whether they liked his policies or not) because he was ‘democratically’ elected, and ‘democracy’ overrides everything else &#8211; their choice is also simple.</p>
<p>C.     Hate Thaksin<br />
The dislike of Thaksin overides all other considerations &#8211; they know who not to vote for.</p>
<p>D.     Anti Thaksin and Anti Military<br />
The choices are more difficult for those people that cannot overlook Thaksin’s misdeeds, but also don’t like military rule.<br />
They are being forced to hold their nose and choose because a third force has not arisen, and it looks like the Democrats have been unable to distance themselves far enough from the military.</p>
<p>The result will depend on which group is the largest, however I think no matter what the result, we can look forward to another interesting year (or boring, as I expect it will be more of the same).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: polo</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-280477</link>
		<dc:creator>polo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-280477</guid>
		<description>nganadeeleg: why don&#039;t you do the tough work of sharing with us what you witness in the election, rather than sniping at others. I for one thank Mr. Nelson for bringing us his experiences and the photos, which as always speak a thousand words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nganadeeleg: why don&#8217;t you do the tough work of sharing with us what you witness in the election, rather than sniping at others. I for one thank Mr. Nelson for bringing us his experiences and the photos, which as always speak a thousand words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael H. Nelson</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-280268</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-280268</guid>
		<description>nganadeeleg: Since your question was neither about my post nor related to my research interests, I can join you in the festive samanachan mode and keep quiet. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nganadeeleg: Since your question was neither about my post nor related to my research interests, I can join you in the festive samanachan mode and keep quiet. <img src='http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279989</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279989</guid>
		<description>Michael H Nelson:  I could post a list of some of your (non judgmental, non moralistic) &quot;mildly analytical-critical academic descriptions&quot;, however at this point in time I am really not inclined substantially to respond to your defensive points.
(I may change my mind if you choose to directly answer my initial questions)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael H Nelson:  I could post a list of some of your (non judgmental, non moralistic) &#8220;mildly analytical-critical academic descriptions&#8221;, however at this point in time I am really not inclined substantially to respond to your defensive points.<br />
(I may change my mind if you choose to directly answer my initial questions)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael H. Nelson</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279554</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279554</guid>
		<description>nganadeeleg: I am not sure what statements in particular you refer to. Generally speaking,  it is not really  my problem if you cannot distinguish mildly analytical-critical academic descriptions from a consideration of  good/bad issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nganadeeleg: I am not sure what statements in particular you refer to. Generally speaking,  it is not really  my problem if you cannot distinguish mildly analytical-critical academic descriptions from a consideration of  good/bad issues.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279401</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279401</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;....I am not interested in a moralistic discussion&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s not the impression I get from your reports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;.I am not interested in a moralistic discussion&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the impression I get from your reports.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael H. Nelson</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279381</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279381</guid>
		<description>nganadeeleg: &quot;nor am I sure of what his capacity is in observing the electoral processes in that province.&quot; &gt;&gt; First, I really am at a loss of what this issue has to do with my observations. Second, I can help you knowing my &quot;capacity&quot; better. The first post in this series stated the following: &quot;Michael H. Nelson is a visiting scholar at the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, Thailand, and a senior research associate in Southeast Asian Studies at the University of Passau, Germany.&quot; And: &quot; As had been the case with the constitution referendum, I have moved to Chachoengsao to observe the election as part of a project covering 14 provinces conducted by King Prajadhipok’s Institute (KPI).&quot; I guess that you are sure now, right? Are my observations now more valid/invalid in your view? Third, I am really not inclined substantially to respond to your defensive points. Suffice to say that the country were I come from is a republic, and students are not normally used by state agencies in the instrumental way described in my post. Fourth, re vote-buying, I am not interested in a moralistic discussion. As for state agencies, be it the ministry of the interior or the ECT, vote-buying has been positive, because they could claim the money-induced higher turnout as their achievement.  Since the elections of 2001, compulsory voting had its part, but it also made the work of hua khanaen more convenient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nganadeeleg: &#8220;nor am I sure of what his capacity is in observing the electoral processes in that province.&#8221; &gt;&gt; First, I really am at a loss of what this issue has to do with my observations. Second, I can help you knowing my &#8220;capacity&#8221; better. The first post in this series stated the following: &#8220;Michael H. Nelson is a visiting scholar at the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, Thailand, and a senior research associate in Southeast Asian Studies at the University of Passau, Germany.&#8221; And: &#8221; As had been the case with the constitution referendum, I have moved to Chachoengsao to observe the election as part of a project covering 14 provinces conducted by King Prajadhipok’s Institute (KPI).&#8221; I guess that you are sure now, right? Are my observations now more valid/invalid in your view? Third, I am really not inclined substantially to respond to your defensive points. Suffice to say that the country were I come from is a republic, and students are not normally used by state agencies in the instrumental way described in my post. Fourth, re vote-buying, I am not interested in a moralistic discussion. As for state agencies, be it the ministry of the interior or the ECT, vote-buying has been positive, because they could claim the money-induced higher turnout as their achievement.  Since the elections of 2001, compulsory voting had its part, but it also made the work of hua khanaen more convenient.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279186</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279186</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You should be thanking Michael for drawing these ridiculous scenes to your attention, not trying to HIS background.&lt;/i&gt;

Where did I try to ??? his background?  (A little too much Xmas cheer???)

The reports from Chachoengsao have been quite interesting to me, and I have no idea of Mr Nelson&#039;s nationality, nor am I sure of what his capacity is in observing the electoral processes in that province.

One of his statements sounded a little strange, so I asked a question. In his response, Mr Nelson raised the point about the relationship between the school and the students, which led me to ask another question.

FWIW, I agree with much of what you said, Rationaliser, although I wonder just who is being xenophobic.


&lt;i&gt;...it is a bad sign of the moral characters of those being elected into public office&lt;/i&gt;

Thank you Teth for addressing my question - I agree, and IMO that far outweighs any short term gain that a voter may get from selling his or her vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You should be thanking Michael for drawing these ridiculous scenes to your attention, not trying to HIS background.</i></p>
<p>Where did I try to ??? his background?  (A little too much Xmas cheer???)</p>
<p>The reports from Chachoengsao have been quite interesting to me, and I have no idea of Mr Nelson&#8217;s nationality, nor am I sure of what his capacity is in observing the electoral processes in that province.</p>
<p>One of his statements sounded a little strange, so I asked a question. In his response, Mr Nelson raised the point about the relationship between the school and the students, which led me to ask another question.</p>
<p>FWIW, I agree with much of what you said, Rationaliser, although I wonder just who is being xenophobic.</p>
<p><i>&#8230;it is a bad sign of the moral characters of those being elected into public office</i></p>
<p>Thank you Teth for addressing my question &#8211; I agree, and IMO that far outweighs any short term gain that a voter may get from selling his or her vote.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rationaliser</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-279118</link>
		<dc:creator>rationaliser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-279118</guid>
		<description>nganadeeleg: 

Pathetic. You must be Thai. So much rich observation and all you can come up with is a typical reactionary, nationalist Thai  response, in defence of a clearly brainwashed country. You do not face the discussion at hand but point the finger at the suspected nationality of the writer. Grow a brain. Learn how to think. Stop attacking the messenger and engage with the ideas the messenger is communicating,.
You should be thanking Michael for drawing these ridiculous scenes to your attention, not trying to HIS background.

Talk about missing the point. The whole scene above is pathetic. As if the PEC are going to fight people selling their votes for money when they can&#039;t even provide somewhere for people to sit.

I quote an AP story December 20....

“Whichever party pays us more, we vote for it,&#039;&#039; said Sin Mapula, a 50-year-old farmer in Roi Et province

“I know Thaksin is not good,” said Charaen, 67, the environmental activist. &quot;But I will vote for (his supporters&#039; party) because my grandson is a village headman and a canvasser. My grandson said Thaksin’s party has lots of money.&quot;

Typical ... 

nganadeeleg... your xenophobic response is an hypocritical as the guy on the stage criticising foreign influences, after dancers wearing western costumes but with Thai characteristics.... (the west is moving away from dressing up underage children in sexy gear... as Thailand revels in it) parade around in a Las Vegas showgirl style. 

And the same Thai institutions criticise democracy itself as a foreign influence, as they call up their canvassers on Nokia mobile phones, slip into their German luxury cars, ogle Japanese comic books, buy coffee at American style coffee shops, while buying Danish furniture.... bloody hypocrites.

And what&#039;s foreign about not wanting politicians to abuse tax money, about wanting equal opportunities for people of ALL races, religions and language groups. What&#039;s foreign about wanting decent work conditions for decent pay. What&#039;s foreign about expecting one part of government to check the power of another part of government? What&#039;s foreign about wanting to read the truth in the media? What&#039;s foreign about expecting that those who seek the truth shouldn&#039;t feel in danger when they are asking questions about abuses of power?

Nothing.... nothing is foreign about these things,.... these are human HUMAN!!!! RIGHTS not foreign rights....

You idiots who say &quot;this is Thailand&quot; are forgetting what came from building this nation.... BUTCHERY.... blood... and rich generals</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nganadeeleg: </p>
<p>Pathetic. You must be Thai. So much rich observation and all you can come up with is a typical reactionary, nationalist Thai  response, in defence of a clearly brainwashed country. You do not face the discussion at hand but point the finger at the suspected nationality of the writer. Grow a brain. Learn how to think. Stop attacking the messenger and engage with the ideas the messenger is communicating,.<br />
You should be thanking Michael for drawing these ridiculous scenes to your attention, not trying to HIS background.</p>
<p>Talk about missing the point. The whole scene above is pathetic. As if the PEC are going to fight people selling their votes for money when they can&#8217;t even provide somewhere for people to sit.</p>
<p>I quote an AP story December 20&#8230;.</p>
<p>“Whichever party pays us more, we vote for it,&#8221; said Sin Mapula, a 50-year-old farmer in Roi Et province</p>
<p>“I know Thaksin is not good,” said Charaen, 67, the environmental activist. &#8220;But I will vote for (his supporters&#8217; party) because my grandson is a village headman and a canvasser. My grandson said Thaksin’s party has lots of money.&#8221;</p>
<p>Typical &#8230; </p>
<p>nganadeeleg&#8230; your xenophobic response is an hypocritical as the guy on the stage criticising foreign influences, after dancers wearing western costumes but with Thai characteristics&#8230;. (the west is moving away from dressing up underage children in sexy gear&#8230; as Thailand revels in it) parade around in a Las Vegas showgirl style. </p>
<p>And the same Thai institutions criticise democracy itself as a foreign influence, as they call up their canvassers on Nokia mobile phones, slip into their German luxury cars, ogle Japanese comic books, buy coffee at American style coffee shops, while buying Danish furniture&#8230;. bloody hypocrites.</p>
<p>And what&#8217;s foreign about not wanting politicians to abuse tax money, about wanting equal opportunities for people of ALL races, religions and language groups. What&#8217;s foreign about wanting decent work conditions for decent pay. What&#8217;s foreign about expecting one part of government to check the power of another part of government? What&#8217;s foreign about wanting to read the truth in the media? What&#8217;s foreign about expecting that those who seek the truth shouldn&#8217;t feel in danger when they are asking questions about abuses of power?</p>
<p>Nothing&#8230;. nothing is foreign about these things,&#8230;. these are human HUMAN!!!! RIGHTS not foreign rights&#8230;.</p>
<p>You idiots who say &#8220;this is Thailand&#8221; are forgetting what came from building this nation&#8230;. BUTCHERY&#8230;. blood&#8230; and rich generals</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Teth</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/comment-page-1/#comment-278899</link>
		<dc:creator>Teth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/20/chachoengsao-provincial-election-commission-advertises-the-election/#comment-278899</guid>
		<description>Personally, vote buying can be &quot;not bad&quot; when it is performed by everyone because in the end, the populace will be richer, and will still be voting for who they like more.

But it is a bad sign of the moral characters of those being elected into public office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, vote buying can be &#8220;not bad&#8221; when it is performed by everyone because in the end, the populace will be richer, and will still be voting for who they like more.</p>
<p>But it is a bad sign of the moral characters of those being elected into public office.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
