Comments on: Mission to Burma, and to the Lahu, and the rest… http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/ New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:46:18 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Ola Hanson from the archive on vocabulary size http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-484485 Ola Hanson from the archive on vocabulary size Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:50:49 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-484485 [...] quote follows an earlier archival posting that highlighted religious change in the highlands of mainland Southeast Asia.  As a missionary linguist Ola Hanson was a major [...] [...] quote follows an earlier archival posting that highlighted religious change in the highlands of mainland Southeast Asia.  As a missionary linguist Ola Hanson was a major [...]

]]> By: aiontay http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-479277 aiontay Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:58:12 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-479277 Kate G. , That BA thesis sounds very interesting; if you would care to go in to more detail about it, it could very well help expand this discussion. Martin Smith in "Burma: Insurgency and the Politics of Ethnicity" has an appendix on millenarianism, and mentions several Karen millennial sects that were influenced by Christianity. It certainly be interesting to hear the missionary description of the Karen millennial movements. Of course, those millennial movements cut both ways. Harold Young, the missionary patriarch of Young family, was helped in his conversions among the Lahus by Lahu prophecies (see pg 304 of McCoy's "The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia"). As McCoy writes "Although investigators councluded that Reverand Young was pandering to pagan myths, Baptist congregations in the the United States were impressed by his statistical success and had already started sending large contributions to 'gather in the harvest' ". Martin Smith notes that the Lahu rebellion in Burma began in 1972 headed by Pu Kyaung Long, a traditional Lahu spiritual leader ( the same type of spiritual leader Young was when he was "pandering to pagan myths), and that his followers included Christian Lahus from Thailand. I had lunch with one of his sons in the company of 3 Lahu Baptist pastors in a Lahu village on the Thai side of the border in the early 1990s. I didn't know who he was until after lunch when one of the pastors informed me of who his father was. Despite the fact he wasn't Christian, they all seemed to have known each other quite well and were on good terms. Kate G. ,

That BA thesis sounds very interesting; if you would care to go in to more detail about it, it could very well help expand this discussion. Martin Smith in “Burma: Insurgency and the Politics of Ethnicity” has an appendix on millenarianism, and mentions several Karen millennial sects that were influenced by Christianity. It certainly be interesting to hear the missionary description of the Karen millennial movements.

Of course, those millennial movements cut both ways. Harold Young, the missionary patriarch of Young family, was helped in his conversions among the Lahus by Lahu prophecies (see pg 304 of McCoy’s “The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia”). As McCoy writes “Although investigators councluded that Reverand Young was pandering to pagan myths, Baptist congregations in the the United States were impressed by his statistical success and had already started sending large contributions to ‘gather in the harvest’ “.

Martin Smith notes that the Lahu rebellion in Burma began in 1972 headed by Pu Kyaung Long, a traditional Lahu spiritual leader ( the same type of spiritual leader Young was when he was “pandering to pagan myths), and that his followers included Christian Lahus from Thailand. I had lunch with one of his sons in the company of 3 Lahu Baptist pastors in a Lahu village on the Thai side of the border in the early 1990s. I didn’t know who he was until after lunch when one of the pastors informed me of who his father was. Despite the fact he wasn’t Christian, they all seemed to have known each other quite well and were on good terms.

]]> By: Kate G. http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-477922 Kate G. Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:04:24 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-477922 Interesting discussion. I'm sorry to have come so late to it. Re: the use of missionary literature. Long, long ago, when I was writing my B.A. honors thesis at the University of Iowa on millennial/revitalization movements in SE Asia, my most useful sources came from the full set of the American Baptist Mission records at the University Library. Most of these missions were to Karen in Burma. They were full of 'field reports' from missionaries (husbands and wives), loaded with details of everyday life. One of their great joys was how rapidly they were able to convert Karen; one of their great sorrows was the constant rise of millennial movements of one kind or another that took people from what the American Baptists saw as the true path. There were, of course, also millennial movements among the Buddhist Karen. I surmised that these movements were an expression of desires for cultural and political autonomy (I was working from Peter Worsley, seeing religious movements as inherently political). For a little about Catholic Missions in Yunnan, see the following: Gros, Stéphane 1996a Terres de Confins, Terres de Colonisation: Essay sur les Marches Sino-Tibétaines Due Yunnan À Travers l'Implantation de la Mission Du Tibet. Péninsule 33(2):147-211. 2001a-b Ritual and Politics: Missionary Encounters in Local Culture in Northwest Yunnan. In Legacies and Social Memory: Missionaries and Scholars in the Ethnic Southwest. Eric S. Diehl, chair. Association for Asian Studies Annual Meeting. Chicago, IL, March 22-25. Magnus Fiskejo also tells me that the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago has got some great information on Lisu and other Tibeto-Burman speaking peoples in SW China in their archives, again from the mission work of people such as Isobel Kuhn and, of course, James Fraser, author of Handbook of the Lisu (Yawyin) Language. Interesting discussion. I’m sorry to have come so late to it.
Re: the use of missionary literature. Long, long ago, when I was writing my B.A. honors thesis at the University of Iowa on millennial/revitalization movements in SE Asia, my most useful sources came from the full set of the American Baptist Mission records at the University Library. Most of these missions were to Karen in Burma. They were full of ‘field reports’ from missionaries (husbands and wives), loaded with details of everyday life. One of their great joys was how rapidly they were able to convert Karen; one of their great sorrows was the constant rise of millennial movements of one kind or another that took people from what the American Baptists saw as the true path.
There were, of course, also millennial movements among the Buddhist Karen. I surmised that these movements were an expression of desires for cultural and political autonomy (I was working from Peter Worsley, seeing religious movements as inherently political).
For a little about Catholic Missions in Yunnan, see the following:
Gros, Stéphane
1996a Terres de Confins, Terres de Colonisation: Essay sur les Marches Sino-Tibétaines Due Yunnan À Travers l’Implantation de la Mission Du Tibet. Péninsule 33(2):147-211.
2001a-b Ritual and Politics: Missionary Encounters in Local Culture in Northwest Yunnan. In Legacies and Social Memory: Missionaries and Scholars in the Ethnic Southwest. Eric S. Diehl, chair. Association for Asian Studies Annual Meeting. Chicago, IL, March
22-25.
Magnus Fiskejo also tells me that the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago has got some great information on Lisu and other Tibeto-Burman speaking peoples in SW China in their archives, again from the mission work of people such as Isobel Kuhn and, of course, James Fraser, author of Handbook of the Lisu (Yawyin) Language.

]]> By: aiontay http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-472868 aiontay Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:58:49 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-472868 Given the current situation of the Karens in Burma, San C. Po may have been on to something. I don't recall a whole lot of Shan or Palaung Buddhists calling for a united Burma independent of Britian, and elements of the Mon community joined the Karens in rebellion against U Nu's government, so is the issue really Christianity or ethnicity? Jon, I think just about any comparison of the Catholics and Protestants would be interesting; what would also be interesting is comparing the ethnographic material produced by both groups. For example a comparison of Tegenfeldt's "A Century of Growth", which deals with the Kachin Baptist church with a comparable Catholic study. Given the current situation of the Karens in Burma, San C. Po may have been on to something. I don’t recall a whole lot of Shan or Palaung Buddhists calling for a united Burma independent of Britian, and elements of the Mon community joined the Karens in rebellion against U Nu’s government, so is the issue really Christianity or ethnicity?

Jon, I think just about any comparison of the Catholics and Protestants would be interesting; what would also be interesting is comparing the ethnographic material produced by both groups. For example a comparison of Tegenfeldt’s “A Century of Growth”, which deals with the Kachin Baptist church with a comparable Catholic study.

]]> By: jonfernquest http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-472800 jonfernquest Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:55:45 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-472800 I've never seen anything on the history of Catholic missions in the Eastern Shan States in Kengtung. Most of the Akhas from Kengtung seem to be Catholic. The Akha Catholic priest who used to help me with my Burmese, even told me about Akha priests who went for graduate study at the Vatican and one who did a dissertation on localising Catholicism, adapting it to local Akha beliefs. It would be interesting to study contrasts and differences in the approach taken by missionaries in the Catholic and Protestant communities of Akhas. When I lived in Yangon, got to know some Chin folk singers and it was interesting how they identified with some very specific American pastors who founded their church. Like they asked me if I knew who this rather obscure guy was, as if someone from America would know him for sure, highlighting the pastor's importance in their mind. Living in Maesai I also met several very intelligent Burmese nationals, one from a sub-group of "Kachin," who had studied in US bible colleges with the goal of bible translation in their dialect. (BTW There is a citation to an academic paper in Lieberman's "Strange Parallels" that discusses hilltribe conversion to Christianity as a response to the majority Buddhism.) I taught in a very remote Karen village on the Moei River with a KNU official and a Karen-Thai headman, the population split between many Christian town Karen from inside Burma and also many hill Karen (non-Christian) from the local Thai area who didn't seem to be connected into markets at all. There was even a sort of loyalty to Great Britain. I remember the nurse in the village saying she'd like to go visit the queen. Interesting discussion with interesting questions raised. Soon to appear in English: PRISONERS OF A WHITE GOD Lao People’s Democratic Republic exercises development programs which implement relocations of whole villages from mountain areas to the lowlands or along the roads. These activities are supposed to lead to abatement of swidden agriculture and opium production and also to the concentration and integration of village inhabitants into the majority of Lao society. Akhas are among the most affected. CZ, 2008, 52 min. Inspired by Tomas Ryska Written and directed by Steve L. Lichtag Music by Pavel Kotzian IFF Envirofilm 2008 - Slovakia, Special Award http://www.lichtag.com/filmy_en.htm I’ve never seen anything on the history of Catholic missions in the Eastern Shan States in Kengtung. Most of the Akhas from Kengtung seem to be Catholic. The Akha Catholic priest who used to help me with my Burmese, even told me about Akha priests who went for graduate study at the Vatican and one who did a dissertation on localising Catholicism, adapting it to local Akha beliefs. It would be interesting to study contrasts and differences in the approach taken by missionaries in the Catholic and Protestant communities of Akhas. When I lived in Yangon, got to know some Chin folk singers and it was interesting how they identified with some very specific American pastors who founded their church. Like they asked me if I knew who this rather obscure guy was, as if someone from America would know him for sure, highlighting the pastor’s importance in their mind. Living in Maesai I also met several very intelligent Burmese nationals, one from a sub-group of “Kachin,” who had studied in US bible colleges with the goal of bible translation in their dialect. (BTW There is a citation to an academic paper in Lieberman’s “Strange Parallels” that discusses hilltribe conversion to Christianity as a response to the majority Buddhism.) I taught in a very remote Karen village on the Moei River with a KNU official and a Karen-Thai headman, the population split between many Christian town Karen from inside Burma and also many hill Karen (non-Christian) from the local Thai area who didn’t seem to be connected into markets at all. There was even a sort of loyalty to Great Britain. I remember the nurse in the village saying she’d like to go visit the queen. Interesting discussion with interesting questions raised. Soon to appear in English:

PRISONERS OF A WHITE GOD
Lao People’s Democratic Republic exercises development programs which implement relocations of whole villages from mountain areas to the lowlands or along the roads. These activities are supposed to lead to abatement of swidden agriculture and opium production and also to the concentration and integration of village inhabitants into the majority of Lao society. Akhas are among the most affected.
CZ, 2008, 52 min.
Inspired by Tomas Ryska
Written and directed by Steve L. Lichtag
Music by Pavel Kotzian
IFF Envirofilm 2008 – Slovakia, Special Award
http://www.lichtag.com/filmy_en.htm

]]> By: Stephen http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-472677 Stephen Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:08:21 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-472677 Aiontay, yes that's correct, but prior to his 1945 request to the British governor of Burma at the time for a separate Karen State, he did travel to London in 1928 to petition the British against self-rule for Burma, arguing that the country wasn't ready. Aiontay, yes that’s correct, but prior to his 1945 request to the British governor of Burma at the time for a separate Karen State, he did travel to London in 1928 to petition the British against self-rule for Burma, arguing that the country wasn’t ready.

]]> By: aiontay http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-472475 aiontay Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:38:02 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-472475 Didn't San C. Po propose a Karen State? Didn’t San C. Po propose a Karen State?

]]> By: Stephen http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-471937 Stephen Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:15:48 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-471937 <blockquote>“While I agree with the remark about how missionaries can play (unwittingly, sometimes) to the priorities of nation-building, they also contribute (sometimes) to an ethnic defense against it.”</blockquote> Where nation-building refers to that of the Burman-dominated independent State, I agree there seems plenty of evidence to suggest that Christianity and Christian missionaries led to tension and resistance against it and encouraged separate identities amongst non-Burman Christians. But where it refers to British Burma, I don’t think there’s really that much evidence of Christian resistance to the colonial state. I’m not so familiar with ethnic nationality Christian figures who partook in the independence struggle against the British or, more interestingly, who did so alongside Buddhist Burmans towards the creation of a united independent Burma. I’m thinking of a Christian version of someone like the Muslim, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_Razak" rel="nofollow">U Razak</a>. If someone does know of some cases, I would be interested to hear them. Instead, we have people like San C. Po calling for the continuation of British rule in Burma.

“While I agree with the remark about how missionaries can play (unwittingly, sometimes) to the priorities of nation-building, they also contribute (sometimes) to an ethnic defense against it.”

Where nation-building refers to that of the Burman-dominated independent State, I agree there seems plenty of evidence to suggest that Christianity and Christian missionaries led to tension and resistance against it and encouraged separate identities amongst non-Burman Christians. But where it refers to British Burma, I don’t think there’s really that much evidence of Christian resistance to the colonial state. I’m not so familiar with ethnic nationality Christian figures who partook in the independence struggle against the British or, more interestingly, who did so alongside Buddhist Burmans towards the creation of a united independent Burma. I’m thinking of a Christian version of someone like the Muslim, U Razak. If someone does know of some cases, I would be interested to hear them. Instead, we have people like San C. Po calling for the continuation of British rule in Burma.

]]> By: Nicholas Farrelly http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-471230 Nicholas Farrelly Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:12:55 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-471230 Thanks Aiontay, Leif and Stephen, Great conversation! And, not wanting to get it off track, as a point of clarification the "Kachin" Stephen refers to are usually called Singpho. And, yes, they are mostly Theravada Buddhists and they have, as I understand it, mostly been quite recently converted (i.e. in the past 150 years or so). The stories I have heard focus on Burmese and Shan (and maybe "Kachin") monks from across the border who walked to the Singpho areas. I was up in those areas of Arunachal Pradesh and Assam earlier in the year and <a href="http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/02/22/manau-in-arunachal-pradesh/" rel="nofollow">a few</a> <a href="http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/03/04/ministers-at-the-arunachal-pradesh-manau/" rel="nofollow">of these</a> <em><a href="http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/02/28/would-you-like-tsa-pi-with-that/" rel="nofollow">New Mandala </em>posts</a> may be of interest to anyone wanting to learn more. Best wishes to all, Nich Thanks Aiontay, Leif and Stephen,

Great conversation! And, not wanting to get it off track, as a point of clarification the “Kachin” Stephen refers to are usually called Singpho. And, yes, they are mostly Theravada Buddhists and they have, as I understand it, mostly been quite recently converted (i.e. in the past 150 years or so). The stories I have heard focus on Burmese and Shan (and maybe “Kachin”) monks from across the border who walked to the Singpho areas. I was up in those areas of Arunachal Pradesh and Assam earlier in the year and a few of these New Mandala posts may be of interest to anyone wanting to learn more.

Best wishes to all,

Nich

]]> By: aiontay http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/06/09/mission-to-burma-and-to-the-lahu-and-the-rest/comment-page-1/#comment-471229 aiontay Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:10:23 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2423#comment-471229 It seems to me the Kachins are a pretty good example of "heathen" beliefs incorporated in to a culturally-based Christianity. Christian Kachins from Burma and Buddhist Kachins (Singhpo) from Assam both participate in the Manau, an animist ceremony that pre-dates conversion to either Christianity or Buddhism. I'd also point out that the Karen re-working of history might not just marginalize the non-Christian elements, but also the missionaries. I'm not saying that is the intent, but it is a possible interpretation. Can the missionaries trace their ancestory back to the Tower of Babel? It seems to me the Kachins are a pretty good example of “heathen” beliefs incorporated in to a culturally-based Christianity. Christian Kachins from Burma and Buddhist Kachins (Singhpo) from Assam both participate in the Manau, an animist ceremony that pre-dates conversion to either Christianity or Buddhism.

I’d also point out that the Karen re-working of history might not just marginalize the non-Christian elements, but also the missionaries. I’m not saying that is the intent, but it is a possible interpretation. Can the missionaries trace their ancestory back to the Tower of Babel?

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