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	<title>Comments on: Have you had enough of sufficiency?</title>
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	<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/</link>
	<description>New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia</description>
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		<title>By: Sidh S.</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506981</link>
		<dc:creator>Sidh S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506981</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is this the arrogance you criticise or just a case of being caught within your own “logic” and not being able to see outside it?&quot;

Both Reg - I often get caught in my own logic. I try not to, but I can&#039;t help it. I have been criticized for my arrogance too - and will readily admit to it as well... I readily admit (as I used &quot;we&quot;) that I write as a hypocrite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is this the arrogance you criticise or just a case of being caught within your own “logic” and not being able to see outside it?&#8221;</p>
<p>Both Reg &#8211; I often get caught in my own logic. I try not to, but I can&#8217;t help it. I have been criticized for my arrogance too &#8211; and will readily admit to it as well&#8230; I readily admit (as I used &#8220;we&#8221;) that I write as a hypocrite.</p>
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		<title>By: Reg Varney</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506939</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg Varney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506939</guid>
		<description>Sidh: I claim to have been defamed. I most certainly do not &quot;assume that we have all the answers and prescriptions.&quot; And I continue to find your assertions that you know best about each bloggers motivations etc. to be little different from that position you claim to criticise. Is this the arrogance  you criticise or just a case of being caught within your own &quot;logic&quot; and not being able to see outside it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sidh: I claim to have been defamed. I most certainly do not &#8220;assume that we have all the answers and prescriptions.&#8221; And I continue to find your assertions that you know best about each bloggers motivations etc. to be little different from that position you claim to criticise. Is this the arrogance  you criticise or just a case of being caught within your own &#8220;logic&#8221; and not being able to see outside it?</p>
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		<title>By: Sidh S.</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506781</link>
		<dc:creator>Sidh S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506781</guid>
		<description>Calm down people. We are all only describing the phenomenon of &#039;development&#039; in Thailand - a country somewhere on the spectrum between a rural, agricultural society (Thailand in the 1950s) and one that is urban, post-industrialized (Thailand in 20xx?).

Similarly, on politics, we are describing a society that is somewhere on the spectrum between a monarchy (Thailand pre-1932) and one that is a liberal democracy (Thailand in 20xx?).

Most of us are doing so from the vantage points of either living or have lived in societies that is already classified as &quot;developed&quot; and a liberal democracy. We assume that we have all the answers and prescriptions. But we could just be dead wrong - if Climate Change extremities kicks in (e.g. already forcing Australians to be &quot;sufficient&quot; with their water use). Now we are telling China and India to &quot;slow down mate&quot; and stop polluting - which is, in essence telling millions to &quot;stay poor longer&quot;.

Whatever we say here, we say as total hypocrites...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calm down people. We are all only describing the phenomenon of &#8216;development&#8217; in Thailand &#8211; a country somewhere on the spectrum between a rural, agricultural society (Thailand in the 1950s) and one that is urban, post-industrialized (Thailand in 20xx?).</p>
<p>Similarly, on politics, we are describing a society that is somewhere on the spectrum between a monarchy (Thailand pre-1932) and one that is a liberal democracy (Thailand in 20xx?).</p>
<p>Most of us are doing so from the vantage points of either living or have lived in societies that is already classified as &#8220;developed&#8221; and a liberal democracy. We assume that we have all the answers and prescriptions. But we could just be dead wrong &#8211; if Climate Change extremities kicks in (e.g. already forcing Australians to be &#8220;sufficient&#8221; with their water use). Now we are telling China and India to &#8220;slow down mate&#8221; and stop polluting &#8211; which is, in essence telling millions to &#8220;stay poor longer&#8221;.</p>
<p>Whatever we say here, we say as total hypocrites&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Haughton</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506638</link>
		<dc:creator>James Haughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506638</guid>
		<description>As long as the villages are &quot;sufficient&quot;, they will be poor. As long as they are poor, they will migrate to the cities and work cheaply. As long as they work cheaply, Bangkok&#039;s elite can continue to make money from export-led development, and publish newspaper articles advocating sufficiency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as the villages are &#8220;sufficient&#8221;, they will be poor. As long as they are poor, they will migrate to the cities and work cheaply. As long as they work cheaply, Bangkok&#8217;s elite can continue to make money from export-led development, and publish newspaper articles advocating sufficiency.</p>
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		<title>By: nganadeeleg</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506611</link>
		<dc:creator>nganadeeleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506611</guid>
		<description>Reasonableness, Moderation &amp; Immunity - sound advice after the 1997 crash.

Simple concepts, but twisted to suit an underlying agenda - by both sides!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reasonableness, Moderation &amp; Immunity &#8211; sound advice after the 1997 crash.</p>
<p>Simple concepts, but twisted to suit an underlying agenda &#8211; by both sides!</p>
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		<title>By: Reg Varney</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-506579</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg Varney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-506579</guid>
		<description>Vianney  says that all the &quot;conflicts in the world could be solved if each of us learn to be content in what we have.&quot; Nice bit of buddhist theology but is it SE? Anyway, as I look out my window in Bangkok this morning and see yet another crane - a metal one, not the bird - rise close to my abode I know that all these Bangkok rich people are truly experiencing SE and putting it to work in concrete, steel and glass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vianney  says that all the &#8220;conflicts in the world could be solved if each of us learn to be content in what we have.&#8221; Nice bit of buddhist theology but is it SE? Anyway, as I look out my window in Bangkok this morning and see yet another crane &#8211; a metal one, not the bird &#8211; rise close to my abode I know that all these Bangkok rich people are truly experiencing SE and putting it to work in concrete, steel and glass.</p>
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		<title>By: Grasshopper</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-505983</link>
		<dc:creator>Grasshopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-505983</guid>
		<description>No I haven&#039;t had enough of sufficiency. It is a perverse fait accompli and without it, this site would have much less content. We get to stare at stagnating development and wonder why -- it is slowly becoming a part of Thai culture (or has always been? haha), which I&#039;m not in - but am curious about. Maybe to satiate Che urges it would be better to ask this in Thai?

If a sufficiency economy was implemented in Bangkok, many tourists would have to have hotel stays without air conditioning. Could Bangkok find a different industry to butter it&#039;s bread? I think tourism in South East Asia depends so much on all the stereotypes in that Ruby Wax article you posted and in the minds of Westerners who are captivated by seeing what they imagined in books from childhood. Exploring.

If South East Asia, and Thailand in particular didn&#039;t look like it does, if it didn&#039;t have the class issues, the rural poor contrasted with the Bangkok elite - if there was development like there has been in tiger economies throughout Thailand, would people still flock to Thailand in droves? I doubt it. You can&#039;t have an &#039;authentic adventure experience&#039; in a place where nobody starves, everyone has a tractor and air conditioning. Maybe it is the conservative elite attitude in Thailand and the nostalgic, romantic notion of what we see Thailand as  that prevents practical development and promotes silly ideas like segregated sufficiency economy. 

Maybe if Bhumibol didn&#039;t buy into this sort of conservatism, he would have instead advocated for constructing solar panel factories and geothermal technology centers? This way Thailand could take advantage of a projected international business boom in being --sustainable--, rather than sufficient. Consequently allowing Thailand to emerge as the latest &#039;tiger economy&#039;. 

So I am very interested in sufficiency because it fuels my inefficient digressions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No I haven&#8217;t had enough of sufficiency. It is a perverse fait accompli and without it, this site would have much less content. We get to stare at stagnating development and wonder why &#8212; it is slowly becoming a part of Thai culture (or has always been? haha), which I&#8217;m not in &#8211; but am curious about. Maybe to satiate Che urges it would be better to ask this in Thai?</p>
<p>If a sufficiency economy was implemented in Bangkok, many tourists would have to have hotel stays without air conditioning. Could Bangkok find a different industry to butter it&#8217;s bread? I think tourism in South East Asia depends so much on all the stereotypes in that Ruby Wax article you posted and in the minds of Westerners who are captivated by seeing what they imagined in books from childhood. Exploring.</p>
<p>If South East Asia, and Thailand in particular didn&#8217;t look like it does, if it didn&#8217;t have the class issues, the rural poor contrasted with the Bangkok elite &#8211; if there was development like there has been in tiger economies throughout Thailand, would people still flock to Thailand in droves? I doubt it. You can&#8217;t have an &#8216;authentic adventure experience&#8217; in a place where nobody starves, everyone has a tractor and air conditioning. Maybe it is the conservative elite attitude in Thailand and the nostalgic, romantic notion of what we see Thailand as  that prevents practical development and promotes silly ideas like segregated sufficiency economy. </p>
<p>Maybe if Bhumibol didn&#8217;t buy into this sort of conservatism, he would have instead advocated for constructing solar panel factories and geothermal technology centers? This way Thailand could take advantage of a projected international business boom in being &#8211;sustainable&#8211;, rather than sufficient. Consequently allowing Thailand to emerge as the latest &#8216;tiger economy&#8217;. </p>
<p>So I am very interested in sufficiency because it fuels my inefficient digressions!</p>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-505981</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-505981</guid>
		<description>Suranan&#039;s comments seem pretty much par for the course. From what I have seen discussions of the sustainability economy consist almost entirely of rich Bangkok residents telling the poor to stay poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suranan&#8217;s comments seem pretty much par for the course. From what I have seen discussions of the sustainability economy consist almost entirely of rich Bangkok residents telling the poor to stay poor.</p>
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		<title>By: Vianney</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-505590</link>
		<dc:creator>Vianney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-505590</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a loyalist. But I would say that this concept works not for Thailand&#039;s villages but global problems. All conflicts in the world could be solved if each of us learn to be content in what we have.  I&#039;m not that naive or dreamy to say that human beings should give in to one another. We still have to protect our rights, but not trespass others. What is ours is ours. What is not ours, we must not want to get it. Let&#039;s say we can have fun, but we must know the limit. Thais need not cut back either trip to europe or luxuaries, so long as they can afford it. 

From the context of capitalism, it may be difficult for the Bangkokian middle class to understand the sufficiency economy concept. Suranand may focus on the villages because it made it easier to communicate. If he focuses on only village, he is missing the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a loyalist. But I would say that this concept works not for Thailand&#8217;s villages but global problems. All conflicts in the world could be solved if each of us learn to be content in what we have.  I&#8217;m not that naive or dreamy to say that human beings should give in to one another. We still have to protect our rights, but not trespass others. What is ours is ours. What is not ours, we must not want to get it. Let&#8217;s say we can have fun, but we must know the limit. Thais need not cut back either trip to europe or luxuaries, so long as they can afford it. </p>
<p>From the context of capitalism, it may be difficult for the Bangkokian middle class to understand the sufficiency economy concept. Suranand may focus on the villages because it made it easier to communicate. If he focuses on only village, he is missing the point.</p>
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		<title>By: manning  sawwinner</title>
		<link>http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/07/19/have-you-had-enough-of-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-504754</link>
		<dc:creator>manning  sawwinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2549#comment-504754</guid>
		<description>It is interesting that, while sufficiency economy is advocated by many as either lip service or something serious, we still see a lot of spending in the state sector alone by all the branches of government, of which the executive branch seems to be the most modest in comparison with the legislature (construction of new parliament facilities) and the judiciary (one fabulous courthouse after another).  What should be one vital aim for all Thais is to get rid of our taste for  Western luxuries and to live within our means for average Thais.  Shouldn&#039;t we build a thatch-roof parliament house for a change to make it more like a rural cafe where ordinary Thais congregate?  Then we can rightly say that our M.P.&#039;s represent the Thai people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting that, while sufficiency economy is advocated by many as either lip service or something serious, we still see a lot of spending in the state sector alone by all the branches of government, of which the executive branch seems to be the most modest in comparison with the legislature (construction of new parliament facilities) and the judiciary (one fabulous courthouse after another).  What should be one vital aim for all Thais is to get rid of our taste for  Western luxuries and to live within our means for average Thais.  Shouldn&#8217;t we build a thatch-roof parliament house for a change to make it more like a rural cafe where ordinary Thais congregate?  Then we can rightly say that our M.P.&#8217;s represent the Thai people.</p>
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