The attack on a PAD rally by pro-government thugs in Udon Thani is a disgracefully violent escalation in Thailand’s political standoff. In a democratic system everyone has a right to peaceful protest, and protesters have a right to expect police protection against violent attack. Those responsible for the attack on the PAD rally should be pursued, charged and dealt with by the courts.
The PAD leadership must also take its share of responsibility. As I have argued before, the PAD is not content with protest within a democratic framework. Their strategy is to keep pushing the system until it breaks. They have openly courted military intervention. They have stoked nationalist passions which have bought Thai-Cambodia relations to the brink of conflict. And they have explicitly rejected the expression, and resolution, of political differences through electoral processes. If Thailand’s political system has taken another turn away from the peaceful resolution of difference, then the PAD leadership must share part of the blame.
If indeed Udon Thani’s political thugs have caused the death of a PAD protester, then they have given the PAD a martyr that its undemocratic and increasingly discredited cause so desperately needs. Thuggery and madness!
37 responses so far ↓
1 manning sawwinner // Jul 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm
It’s for the PAD to reassess their repugnant action. Quid pro quo, isn’t it?
2 Srithanonchai // Jul 26, 2008 at 7:53 pm
And these people are too stupid and emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do… Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable.
3 Frank G Anderson // Jul 26, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Role of the monarchy in past political events in Thailand?
See http://en.veropedia.com/a/Bhumibol_Adulyadej
4 karmablues // Jul 27, 2008 at 2:20 am
Re #2
oh, so I suppose these 700 or so people in Udon spontaneously converged without prior appointment from different locations of the city, and picked up random weapons along the way that happen to be lying about around town (because in Udon, people like to leave machetes, knives, iron bars, clubs, etc. lying around in the streets – u never knew that right?) and decided to go beat the living daylights out of the PADs.
OR , were these people a well-organized, well funded group, who had been preparing this attack well in advance of the peaceful PAD rally?
see, Frank’s commentary here:
http://www.upiasiaonline.com/Politics/2008/07/25/fascism_thai_style/3854/
Frank’s assessment seems to be right, so I would say THESE 700 BARBARIC REDS DID EXACTLY WHAT THE PRO-THAKSIN ORGANIZERS AND FUNDERS WANTED THEM TO DO. The organizers obviously incited hatred into the Reds, provided them with weapons and planned the attack. They must have also “talked” to the police about how to (or more accurately how not to) keep the peace that day.
The Udorn Reds was led by brother of powerful local PPP politician, and Frank notes that Kwanchai’s connections to TRT are well known. So my assumption would be these 700 barbaric Reds did EXACTLY WHAT THAKSIN WANTED THEM TO DO. (would the minions dare do anything that would anger Big Boss? so I would safely assume the pro-Thaksin organizers did all of this with full consent from Big Boss, otherwise they just wouldn’t dare)
This applies to other pro-Thaksin Reds in the other provinces who have been violently assaulting PAD. It is not difficult to see that there is a concerted effort by powerful pro-Thaksin groups in the TRT/PPP stronghold provinces to escalate the violence, and such a concerted effort must have been known to Big Boss and Core Henchmens. So again, I can only assume the Barbaric Red Army did exactly what Big Boss wanted. i.e. If Big Boss did not want it, why would he allow these massive barbaric Red Armies to be funded and organized by his minions all around the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces??
It takes a lot of time, effort and money to organize these things you know, and time, effort and (especially) money are always spent for a purpose.
Sorry to be so one-sided once again. But since your #2 only mentions the PAD, I thought I’d balance things out by only mentioning Thaksin in this reply.
Fair game?
By the way, while these 700 Barbaric Reds were “too stupid and too emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do”, I guess they were at least smart enough to have done one thing right, ie. vote for TRT/PPP at the polls.
5 karmablues // Jul 27, 2008 at 2:49 am
btw,
Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable
must have similarly been predictable to Thaksin and his TRT/PPP mafia who funded, organized and supported the various Barbaric Red Armies in several TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
6 Frank G Anderson // Jul 27, 2008 at 12:02 pm
27 July 2007
That the PAD have gone off the deep end several times is apparent. I do not adhere to the waving the yellow flag business or appointing 70% of representatives and electing only 30%, having the Army step in again, etc.
I guess there is a dearth of legitimate and ethical talent here in Thailand on all sides, PAD et. al. The media basically sucks, and combined with selfish political interests and corrupt social values (not to say this is not the problem in the USA as well), things won’t work out very constructively for the foreseeable future. Many good people are trying but are fighting wind-fed fires of irrationality – pro, neutral and anti-royalist – from extremists of all persuasions.
The lese majeste law, as it stands, could not exist without a social need for it. That need is corrupt and unwavering at the same time, a sort of addiction to a wrongful dogma that harms more than it protects.
The divisiveness that is seen in Thai society is hardly recognized, I believe, for what it truly is on the one hand, or what it should truly be on the other. Thai people have got to stop charging one another for not being Thai because of different beliefs, speech and practices. The PAD leadership uses this kind of rationale in its propaganda, as well as does the Household and other agencies and groups here. The so-called ruling elite don’t want to lose their seats, and taking advantage of ignorance, hatred and knee-jerk reactionaries is only one technique available to them. And who is the victim? You!
I also believe that the Thai intellectual/academic community needs to get its act together, with more unification out of professional qualifications (not just writing but accomplishments) rather than trying to get degrees just because they look good. Dr. Chalerm? A big laugh, as well as many other hundreds of current day Ph.D. and MBA holders in Thailand (and abroad) who spout nonsense and then ask that the masses accept it.
Thais don’t need to look Thai to be Thai. Thais don’t need to be Buddhist to be Thai. Thais don’t even need to be born in Thailand to be Thai. Above all this, these people who are Thai but don’t look like, sound like or act like Thais have every right to absence of ignorant and hurtful accusations of not being Thai. I am sick of Thais saying, for example, “Oh, so you aren’t Thai?” when faced with a Thai who holds a different viewpoint or happens to be of Indian, Chinese, Cambodia, American, British or what-not ancestry. Gils Ungpakorn, I believe, was shouted at by the PAD because he happened to say he was proud of his British ancestry.
Thus the conflict in Thailand, as exemplified by the violent clash in Udorn and Buriram, and many other places in Thailand, is a battle between those who would speak and those who would keep them from doing so. The last group are not patriots, nor do they love their king as they claim. When you love a person or principle. you yourself practice those principles. End of lecture.
7 Frank G Anderson // Jul 27, 2008 at 1:16 pm
manning sawwinner // Jul 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm
It’s for the PAD to reassess their repugnant action. Quid pro quo, isn’t it?
I can’t believe this comment.
Eye for an eye? The Bible doesn’t call for that, and it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another.
8 karmablues // Jul 27, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Re #1 and #7
it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another
that’s true. Also, I don’t remember any group of PADs ever storming into a crowd of Reds, attacking them violently with weapons and burning their property.
So, it seems manning sawwiner is justifying violent (and deadly)action as a reaction against airing a different viewpoint.
so, I do pray the PADs will remain committed to non-violence despite the violent onslaughts and terror of the barbaric Reds. An eye for an eye would make Thailand blind indeed.
9 karmablues // Jul 28, 2008 at 12:55 am
Human Rights Watch issues statement to condemn government for failing to protect its citizen’s basic rights and recognizes the peaceful nature of PAD protests (While NM Blogger issues condemnation for the creation of a PAD Martyr – what a striking contrast!).
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/26/thaila19473.htm
Some highlights:
….
“Thai authorities have failed to protect their citizens’ basic right to peaceful assembly,” said Elaine Pearson, deputy Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “By allowing pro-government thugs free rein to unleash violence, the authorities are putting Thailand’s fragile democracy at risk. Officials should investigate these attacks and hold to account those responsible for the violence, as well as any officials who failed to stop it.”
…..
“News footage and eyewitness accounts show that local authorities made no effort to stop the violence. Some 500 police and district defense volunteers at the rally did not try to perform their duties – even when thugs beat PAD supporters nearly to death right in front of them. And they made no attempt to arrest those who destroyed property at the rally. ”
…..
“On at least 11 occasions in Bangkok, Udorn Thani, Sakol Nakhon, Chiang Mai, Sri Saket, Chiang Rai, Mahasarakham, and Buriram provinces, pro-government groups that are often associated with members of parliament from the ruling party have attacked PAD supporters, causing scores of injuries and damaging public property. In one instance, at a PAD rally in Mahasarakham province on July 23, former senator Karun Sai-Ngarm was on the stage when he was hit in the face with a marble from a slingshot and had to be rushed to hospital.
…..
To date Thai authorities have failed to take action against those responsible for the attacks. In some cases, local police and provincial governors have promised to investigate the attacks and arrest those responsible but there is no evidence that this has occurred.
….
“The government of Prime Minister Samak should uphold the right to peaceful assembly as a basic component of democracy guaranteed in the Thai Constitution,” said Pearson. “
10 Reg Varney // Jul 28, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Yes, indeed, condemn physical violence when it occurs. At the same time, it might be useful to consider the literature on agents provocateurs, a term that has recently been used in Thailand.
11 Sidh S. // Jul 28, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Events at Udon Thani and other provinces takes us back to the 2006 protests in front of Central World where the police colluded with thugs in black to beat up the defenseless and weak (women, the eldery) anti-Thaksin protestors…
What I sense here is a very desperate PMThaksin/PPP – as PAD has
taken their ‘alternative views’ to their political heartland where they enjoy ELECTORAL MONOPOLY. Their means and methods to maintain that monopoly is, on the whole, UNDEMOCRATIC from peddling influence through state mechanism to rampant vote buying in the past to outright violence and thuggery last week (which combines the state mechanism in police collusion again and a likely hiring of local thugs – the type that burns slums, market places to the ground for real estate development).
Independent of their views, the PAD, in exposing alternative narratives THROUGH PEACEFUL MEANS in the PMThaksin/PPP heartland is probably doing local democracy a favour. As has happened in Bangkok, attendants at these PAD provincial town centers will likely grow, fanned by marketing nationalist/royalist catchphrases such as Khao Phra Vihear (initiated by a PPP grand blunder due to a highly probable conflicts of interests – no evidences there, but a suspicion based on old patterns) – complemented with ‘why PMThaksin is bad for Thailand/why voting PPP is bad for the country’ etc…etc… Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town? Or if PPP don’t want PAD physical presence, allocate public radio/tv time for views alternate to the incumbent government’s. In fact, any government with true democratic aspirations should fully support forums that airs/discuss difference of opinions…
Andrew is right that the PAD leadership has to take responsibility too, but not because they are responsible for “…Thailand’s political system has taken another turn away from the peaceful resolution of difference” as he stated. It is because they fully realize they are fighting CAPITALIST MAFIAS who are more than willing to resort to unlawful, violent means. The critical test here, again, is on the Thai rule of law – and the willingness of the Thai state to uphold/enforce it.
If the 500 police did little at Udon to protect a peaceful rally because a leader of the pro-Thaksin camp said “do you know who my brother is? (a deputy agricultural minister in the PPP cabinet)”, it is both the police and all funders, planners and perpetuators of violence that is ACCOUNTABLE and DIRECTLY responsible, not the PAD (who Andrew seemed to already convict in the international court of public opinion for all Thai state abuses by PMThaksin/TRT/PPP since 2001!!!).
12 Reg Varney // Jul 28, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Sidh: Yes it does recall earlier events at Central World and also those in Sisaket more recently, where the Bangkok Post (18 July) reported: “Police barriers were also set up in the area with about 200 police officers standing guard. The PAD wanted to march to the temple ruins to protest against Cambodia’s listing of the temple as a World Heritage site. Leading PAD figures ordered their security guards to break through the police barriers. This prompted angry local residents to throw wooden objects at the PAD protesters, who used flag poles to hit back. Police rushed to intervene. The clash left several PAD demonstrators and local residents injured.” Presumably the ordering of PAD “guards” to break through police barriers, provoking violence, deserves condemnation as well.
Physical violence is contemptible, whoever perpetrates it. Incitement to illegal acts including a coup and overthrowing the constitution and election results is also worthy of contempt, whoever calls for it.
13 Srithanonchai // Jul 28, 2008 at 9:02 pm
#4 I had mentioned the “other side” in a comment on a different thread, if I remember correctly, and I reacted on Andrew’s comment… I find adding more of the repetetive emotional statements lame, though you can certainly have a different taste or think that the grave danger inherent in this situation demands such a tactic.
Though I clearly reject the “Red barbarians’” (not my words) behavior in Udon (and elsewhere) and demand swift remedial action by the government, it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds. PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene and thereby possibly achieve the PAD’s goal: an end of the “Thaksin regime” in the guise of the Samak government. Calling this an “alternative narrative” seems to be a bit naive.
14 Frank G Anderson // Jul 28, 2008 at 9:43 pm
28 July 2008
I am not going to jump into the melee of defending the PAD, but do want to cast a word of doubt on the idea that the PAD was attempting to provoke confrontations in general. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude here in Thailand makes everyone shut up and allow things to continue down the same old path.
I more believe that the PAD, certainly considering the possibility of confrontation, wants to be able to speak and be heard. This right is enshrined in the Thai constitution but not the Thai social culture. People won’t want others to speak in ways that affront their perceptions. But if the country is ever going to crawl toward democracy, then people need to accept the right of others to speak,and of others to receive knowledge and information.
15 Sidh S. // Jul 28, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Ah Reg, I sense a bit more of evenhandedness now (now you are beginning to answer the question we posed of you in “Time to go Home”)!
Totally agree – let’s throw in the TRT state-sponsored death squad during the War on Drugs or the crimes in the south such as Kruesae, Takbai, Sabai Yoi to put breaching police line in Sisaket into clearer perspective. And let’s differentiate between “calling for it” and IMPLEMENTATION as part of state policy.
Srithanonchai, the PAD’s is the “alternative narrative” to state controlled medias and, to give an obvious recent example, PMSamak’s “Taste and Complain” TV shows – and the previous marketing and media games PMThaksin and TRT mastered. Barring their extreme political prescriptions, PAD’s exposure of government abuses is also a healthy “alternative narratives” any Thai should hear. I would prefer that the PPP sponsor open weekly forums live on national TV so that the conflicting narratives can be debated and discussed (e.g. What is democracy, checks and balances, rule of law, corruption and how TRT/PPP and PAD encourages and violates it?). Although I hope that is the case, expecting swift remedial action from the Samak government may be a bit naive to0 (not just you, I will always naively hope and pray as well).
16 R. N. England // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:06 am
An organisation whose policy is to deprive people like those of Udon Thani of their right to representation in Parliament sends a bunch of agents provocateurs to taunt them. The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
17 karmablues // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:24 am
Re #13
it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds
but you seem to be overlooking the fact that there is a conscious strategy by TRT/PPP of preparing, funding and organizing these armies of Reds in several provinces for the specific purpose of launching violent attacks on the peaceful PAD protesters and to destroy their property. Human Rights Watch also clearly implicated the government as a conspirator in the violence that has been used against the PAD in many occasions.
… demand swift remedial action by the government
apart from remedial action, would you also demand, as Human Rights Watch did, that the government must ensure that the PAD are able to exercise their rights to freedom of assembly, which would of course include exercising this right in the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
Or is it better that the people should just succumb to the tyranny of their oppressors whom have allowed, in HRW’s words, “pro-government thugs rein free to unleash violence against them”?
As has happened before at various times in history, it is the brave who would rise against the tyranny of their oppressors and if the PAD protesters are to stand up for their basic right to freedom of assembly and continue to go into the Northeastern Provinces to stage their peaceful rallies, that is the kind of bravery which I find inspiring.
PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene
If bloodshed was to result in a push for military intervention and if that is something Thaksin and the government doesn’t want, then they could have easily prevented the violence by telling the police to do their job (rather than having done the opposite) and stop the funding and organizing of the Red armies in the various provinces.
Anyways, I thought I had made a lot of these points clear in #4 and #5 above already.
18 karmablues // Jul 29, 2008 at 2:37 am
Bangkokpost has reported that Kwanchai is an official (equivalent to C-8 level) attached to the PM’s Secretariat Office who was approved by Cabinet in May 2008.
19 nganadeeleg // Jul 29, 2008 at 9:04 am
Sidh: “Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town?”
A very sensible suggestion, contrasted with the following:
R N England: “The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
Is this an academic site? Unbelievable!!!!!
20 Frank G Anderson // Jul 29, 2008 at 9:46 am
“R. N. England // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:06 am
An organisation whose policy is to deprive people like those of Udon Thani of their right to representation in Parliament sends a bunch of agents provocateurs to taunt them. The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!”
Amazing!
The Boston Tea Party had more to do with being taxed than unrepresented. Further British favor to the East India Company waiving taxes led to the company being able to undercut the local colonial tea prices.
But that’s not the amazing part. The amazing part is that anyone could intelligently describe the PAD group in Udorn that day provocateurs. The We Love Udon group was not indeed the provocateur? Come on, give common sense a chance – I know it hurts…
21 R. N. England // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I can assure Frank G. Anderson that representation has a great deal more to do with the historical importance of the Boston Tea Party than the price of price of tea. You distort history by trivisalising the event. As for the rest of you academics, what more can one expect from people who bow to tyranny in order to keep their careers going smoothly. If you told the truth you wouldn’t get past Suvarnobhumi!
22 Reg Varney // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Sidh: The tediousness of your responses is evident yet again. I was not being any more or less even-handed than in the past. It is a pity that there is not more even-handedness on the part of PADites. If you watch ASTV you see no such characteristic and instead you see rather rabid statements of hate and incitement to actions of all kinds, legal and illegal. I have said numerous times that physical violence must be decried, whoever perpetrates it. I have condemned the war on drugs murders and other TRT human rights abuses. I also condemn PAD for incitement to violence, calling for a coup, for breaking the law, for calling for the military and the king to intervene and for a determined campaign to provoke violence. This is not to mention (again) all of the state violence that has been ignored for donkeys years and where some of the perpetrators are now on the PAD side.
23 Reg Varney // Jul 29, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Sidh at #11: “If the 500 police did little at Udon to protect a peaceful rally … it is both the police and all funders, planners and perpetuators of violence that is … responsible, not the PAD (who Andrew seemed to already convict in the international court of public opinion for all Thai state abuses by PMThaksin/TRT/PPP since 2001!!!).
On the last point – weren’t most of the people in the PAD leadership supporters of Thaksin from 2001 to about 2005? Sondhi and Chamlong come to mind and wasn’t PAD formed in its first incarnation in 2005? You seem to be a bit loose in your accusations.
24 Srithanonchai // Jul 29, 2008 at 2:34 pm
# 17 Are you an official spokesperson of PAD or what? It is getting boring.
25 Frank G Anderson // Jul 29, 2008 at 4:44 pm
29 July 2008
“…price of the price of tea?” Ahem!
My comment stands and doesn’t need twisting. Nor do I need assurance. Nor do I understand where this “As for the rest of you academics, what more can one expect from people who bow to tyranny in order to keep their careers going smoothly. If you told the truth you wouldn’t get past Suvarnobhumi!” came from? A knight to Bishop 5 move?
The people bowing to tyranny are those that back up the likes of Thaksin, Samak and who want to retain certain ‘organizations’ for the so-called benefit of the nation and the people. ‘Edifice lovers’ they might be called. But why belabor the obvious?
Let’s stick to common sense.
26 Frank G Anderson // Jul 29, 2008 at 4:56 pm
29 July 2008
The latest is that what was reported with certainty before is now not certain. There are two reports of bodies, one an older person but forensics indicated that it had nothing to do with the 24 July Udorn rally. Another body was supposedly found and may have suffered contusions, blows, etc., but this is not confirmed by police, the PAD or others. Not yet.
27 Sidh S. // Jul 29, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Reg #23, I merely committed the crime of being sarcastic (which I hope Andrew has forgiven me), while at the same time highlighting (as you also did by stating Chamlong’s and Sonthi’s previous allegiances) that the PAD is the offspring of a very long series of PMThaksin’s/PPP state abuse of power and corruption. Whether either side of the cheering spectators in NM like it or not, elements of both PAD and TRT/PPP will be around for a long time, whether PMThaksin ends up behind bars or flee the country… PMThaksin’s lasting legacy is bringing out the worse extremities of Thai society – but, on the bright side, because of that possibly a more vibrant rule of law culture (like many Thais, I keep my fingers crossed and pray between lapses of living).
28 karmablues // Jul 30, 2008 at 12:55 am
Re #24
# 17 Are you an official spokesperson of PAD or what? It is getting boring.
Well, most of the points I made in #17, were the same ones made in the Human Rights Watch 26 July statement, so on that basis and in respect of the points I was conveying in #17, I’d say , I was just being a spokesperson for HRW. But I suppose you may have also concluded that HRW was being a spokesperson for PAD, so I guess it’s natural that you would also consider me to be one too. And to be honest, that’s just fine by me.
29 kuson // Jul 30, 2008 at 1:06 am
Conclusion (?)
A. POSITION 1: PAD IS NOT TO BLAME
Those people who:
“Do not believe PAD wanted confrontation. PAD wanted to be heard, to give understanding to the local people, help them see the truth, how Thaksinism Works and how bad it is for Thai people in general. The Reds obviously do NOT want the uneducated gullibles to hear the truth and set forth to destroy them before the PADs let the “Truth Cat is Out of The Bag” and Boss Thaksin gets in big trouble. Uneducated Gullibles are the “Last Big Frontier” of people supporting Thaksin and thus Thaksinism. PAD views are non-violent, and coming to Udonthani is an act of goodwill towards the people there, so they can do the right thing for Thailand in the future.”
Frank G Anderson
Karmablues
Sidh S
nganadeeleg
Kuson
I think myself and the guys above here seem to understand the context of PAD that theirs is about Educating people about the pros/CONs of Thaksinism to promote intelligence-that takes us all forward, and to eradicate ignorance-that pulls us back. This is probably the way of the Academics in general.
B. POSITION 2: PAD ARE TO BE BLAME
Those who believe:
“PAD wanted to start a fight OR were asking for a headbash by going to Udonthani “Red Territory” to provoke them (but unfortunately forgot to take their weapons because it exceeded their luggage weight quota in the Bangkok-Udonthani ), in doing so wanted to sacrifice themselves so there can be more and more bloodshed so that the Military Can step in or The King Can step in again. PAD wanted their way so much, they think in bringing up the fight, they came in small a quantity “to make it look real”.
This party does not think PAD is even legitimate to do their kinds of protests and trying however violent, to achieve their aims. The Government, since it is supported by the Majority Reds (well, abit exaggerating here) — many who displayed their acts of ‘non-violence’ and stubborn dogma, is legitimate by the past elections, and should be given right of way:
R. N. England (?)
manning sawwinner (?)
Reg Varney (?)
Srithanonchai (?)
Ok guys, shoot me down.
30 nganadeeleg // Jul 30, 2008 at 9:30 am
There is probably some truth to the arguments on both sides, however I’m happy enough to stay in the A camp as it’s clear the Udon power brokers do not want the PAD message to be heard.
btw, I think Andrew could also be placed in the B camp.
31 karmablues // Jul 30, 2008 at 10:13 am
I think we should DEFINITELY add Human Rights Watch (where people who real experts on democracy and human rights are working and who really care about these issues) to the “A” camp.
Oh, and thanks nganadeleg, for your suggestion to put that anthropologist-turned-democracy expert into camp “B”. I will second that proposal.
32 Srithanonchai // Jul 30, 2008 at 7:58 pm
# 28 “And to be honest, that’s just fine by me.” Another case of misplaced pride, I would say. But never mind. By all means, continue with your outpourings since they provide data for my ongoing research on the PAD. Just that it is not resonable to try and argue with spokespeople of any sort, because they necessarily have closed minds.
# 29 Heh, heh — You mean, “Position one — the educated gullibles” versus “Position two — the educated realists”?
33 Frank G Anderson // Jul 30, 2008 at 9:58 pm
For a researcher to find so many closed minds in spokespersons is a bit of an oxymoron, if I may say…
34 karmablues // Jul 31, 2008 at 2:49 am
Re #32
Another case of misplaced pride, I would say. But never mind
Not wanting to reveal oneself as a Thaksinite, is a case of well placed shame, I would say. But never mind, since you are not one anyways especially since Thaksin represents the “dark side” of the folk tale srinthanochai character, whereas you have attested to liking the “lighter side” version, yes, yes, so definitely you would not see Thaksin as your hero, since he is the “wrong” type of srinthanochai.
Hope you manage to stick in the “right side” because, like in Star Wars, the “dark side” is very powerful and tempting.
35 Srithanonchai // Jul 31, 2008 at 2:50 pm
# 34 Heartfelt thanks for accepting that, although I am not a PAD apologist, I am not a Thaksinite!
36 PAD - ready for violence // Jul 31, 2008 at 9:18 pm
[...] the last PAD press conference after the Udon clashes Chamlong Srimuang and Sondhi Limthongkul announced that the PAD would now have the right to take up [...]
37 kuson // Jul 31, 2008 at 11:38 pm
ref #36 – Geez the title “PAD – Ready For Violence” is so violent!
How about “PAD – Ready of Self Defence?” Your choice of words is twisting the context, IMHO, unless you believe they are going to do pre-emtive strikes, which IMHO, I do not think PAD stands for that. (See previous posts)
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