Comments on: PAD: fighting the “last war” http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/ New perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:28:26 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: nganadeeleg http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-549178 nganadeeleg Mon, 01 Sep 2008 07:12:37 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-549178 David Brown: I accept many of your points, however these bolded statements do not accord with my recollection of the Thaksin years: <i>so which do Thais want, corruption they dont know about (Taksin really hurt a lot of powerful people by cleaning up the underground lottery that was a favourite source of income) or corruption they can <b>investigate and deal with</b>?</i> Investigate anyone except him and his cronies! <i>the police and Taksin claim most if not all of the killings were within gangs rather than by the police… now the challenge is to <b>engage the justice system to sort out the real story</b></i> Thaksin was not interest in real justice - I suggest you go back and look at the way the drug war was conducted! I must admit I am getting rather bored of hammering away that Thaksin was 'not as good as it gets' and was basically more of the same with a few more dangerous characteristics and the new twist that he was also a demagogue. (no doubt Andrew and a number of other New Mandala contributors will be pleased that I'm thinking of getting a new hobby) David Brown: I accept many of your points, however these bolded statements do not accord with my recollection of the Thaksin years:

so which do Thais want, corruption they dont know about (Taksin really hurt a lot of powerful people by cleaning up the underground lottery that was a favourite source of income) or corruption they can investigate and deal with?

Investigate anyone except him and his cronies!

the police and Taksin claim most if not all of the killings were within gangs rather than by the police… now the challenge is to engage the justice system to sort out the real story

Thaksin was not interest in real justice – I suggest you go back and look at the way the drug war was conducted!

I must admit I am getting rather bored of hammering away that Thaksin was ‘not as good as it gets’ and was basically more of the same with a few more dangerous characteristics and the new twist that he was also a demagogue.
(no doubt Andrew and a number of other New Mandala contributors will be pleased that I’m thinking of getting a new hobby)

]]> By: David Brown http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-549113 David Brown Mon, 01 Sep 2008 06:03:25 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-549113 rawingwong, agreed .... and the amazing thing, even with the stench, is how many Thai people I have met just seem to be enjoying the "sanuk" (entertainment) of seeing a government in trouble and rabble-rousers snubbing their noses at the police a few dont like the PAD and are aware that democracy is at stake but most seem to ignore the broader picture very frustrating for someone that basically loves Thailand to see the old traditional respect and subservience in the face of (rich and evil) power still guides Thai lives rawingwong,

agreed …. and the amazing thing, even with the stench, is how many Thai people I have met just seem to be enjoying the “sanuk” (entertainment) of seeing a government in trouble and rabble-rousers snubbing their noses at the police

a few dont like the PAD and are aware that democracy is at stake but most seem to ignore the broader picture

very frustrating for someone that basically loves Thailand to see the old traditional respect and subservience in the face of (rich and evil) power still guides Thai lives

]]> By: rawingwong phonpiak http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-549097 rawingwong phonpiak Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:45:29 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-549097 Re David Brown's comment: no matter which Sondhi, the stench is overwhelming! Re David Brown’s comment: no matter which Sondhi, the stench is overwhelming!

]]> By: David Brown http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-549093 David Brown Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:44:27 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-549093 nganadeeleg , thanks for your comments..... agreed the date was August 26, time has flown since this all started in February and the current protests in May tax evasion ... he did not pay tax, as far as I know its unproven whether this was legal... just consider the rich in Australia who dont pay tax... so its a matter for the tax department and the legal system not some street rabble/lynch mob the US government kills lots of people in its war on drugs ... the main issue in Thailand is that the drugs business is run by the rich and powerful who are extremely difficult to deal with... it is they who have built up the story about the extra-judicial killings because their business was being hurt... the police and Taksin claim most if not all of the killings were within gangs rather than by the police... now the challenge is to engage the justice system to sort out the real story policy corruption is also interesting... the simplistic story is that everything in Thailand is corrupt.... my belief is that the Taksin democratically elected government was more open and transparent than the usual government run by secret corrupt powerful Bangkok elite who do their deals over golf which like the confessional hides all secrets... so which do Thais want, corruption they dont know about (Taksin really hurt a lot of powerful people by cleaning up the underground lottery that was a favourite source of income) or corruption they can investigate and deal with? nganadeeleg , thanks for your comments…..

agreed the date was August 26, time has flown since this all started in February and the current protests in May

tax evasion … he did not pay tax, as far as I know its unproven whether this was legal… just consider the rich in Australia who dont pay tax… so its a matter for the tax department and the legal system not some street rabble/lynch mob

the US government kills lots of people in its war on drugs … the main issue in Thailand is that the drugs business is run by the rich and powerful who are extremely difficult to deal with… it is they who have built up the story about the extra-judicial killings because their business was being hurt…

the police and Taksin claim most if not all of the killings were within gangs rather than by the police… now the challenge is to engage the justice system to sort out the real story

policy corruption is also interesting… the simplistic story is that everything in Thailand is corrupt….

my belief is that the Taksin democratically elected government was more open and transparent than the usual government run by secret corrupt powerful Bangkok elite who do their deals over golf which like the confessional hides all secrets…

so which do Thais want, corruption they dont know about (Taksin really hurt a lot of powerful people by cleaning up the underground lottery that was a favourite source of income) or corruption they can investigate and deal with?

]]> By: nganadeeleg http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-548990 nganadeeleg Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:53:20 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-548990 David Brown: Thanks for the summary - just a couple of comments: 1. I think 26 July you have should actually be 26 August 2. IMO you were a little light on tax evasion issue, and the role of tax officials in the process 3. You glossed over the very serious issue of extra-judicial killings during the war on drugs (I wonder if you would appreciate any fellow Green Lefty's being summarily executed for dabbling in drugs?) 4. I also think you were light on the policy corruption issue. As a sometime attendee of Green Left events, I am a little surprised at your portrayal of Thaksin as a Chavez type character - if that is the reality, then all I can say is God help the Venezuelans! :) David Brown: Thanks for the summary – just a couple of comments:
1. I think 26 July you have should actually be 26 August
2. IMO you were a little light on tax evasion issue, and the role of tax officials in the process
3. You glossed over the very serious issue of extra-judicial killings during the war on drugs (I wonder if you would appreciate any fellow Green Lefty’s being summarily executed for dabbling in drugs?)
4. I also think you were light on the policy corruption issue.

As a sometime attendee of Green Left events, I am a little surprised at your portrayal of Thaksin as a Chavez type character – if that is the reality, then all I can say is God help the Venezuelans!
:)

]]> By: David Brown http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/30/pad-fighting-the-last-war/comment-page-1/#comment-548429 David Brown Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:36:41 +0000 http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/?p=2790#comment-548429 note, please dont confuse Sondhi, the media owner (Manager website and magazine, ASTV) who led the PAD protests last time and is again and Sonthi, the retired general that led the coup and the junta the ran Thailand in 2007 I assume they are (financial) mates at least meanwhile <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GreenLeft_discussion/message/57311" rel="nofollow">here</a> is my summary of the politics and protests. note, please dont confuse Sondhi, the media owner (Manager website and magazine, ASTV) who led the PAD protests last time and is again

and

Sonthi, the retired general that led the coup and the junta the ran Thailand in 2007

I assume they are (financial) mates at least

meanwhile here is my summary of the politics and protests.

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