After PAD disperses, the PAD leaders should immediatley and peacefully surrender themselves to the police to face charges.

Assuming PPP did as above, and PAD did not see the light & did not go home, then the forced dispersal should be put in the hands of the experts.
(presumably police & military).

I’m no expert, but I imagine tear gas & water canons, together with large numbers of shielded forces would be needed – but really all Samak would have to do is instuct them to co-ordinate their efforts and to use their best planning to minimise force & casualties, and he will have been seen to have done the right thing (even if it goes wrong!).

>(1). Samak/PPP acknowledge that the constitutional amendment will be put to a new round of consultation to create a new ‘peoples’ constitution.

(2). PAD then can either go home (hopefully), or if they choose to stubbornly stay, they can be forced home.
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Yes, put succinctly like that it is a very good solution. It’s a pity that Samak has neither the wit nor the will nor the inclination to implement it.

Another matter is how could the PAD be forced home? You are really counting on them leaving voluntarily — Samak should take that bet — but what if… ? Tear gas? State of emergency to mobilize a massive amount of troops to arrest people one by one?

Though the ball should be in Samak’s court, these are not idle questions.

2. I do not think you adequately addressed Sidh’s:
While I don’t agree with PAD’s attack on NBT or occupation of the Government House, it baffles me that on the night of the 1st, you probably heard the speech first hand from the UDD leadership inciting violence at Sanam Luang and the order to march 2-3KMS to ATTACK PAD at Government House; you probably marched with this crowd, armed and hungry for blood; you were in right in the middle of the melee – yet you ACCUSE the PAD of being the aggressor!!!???
From my point of view, it is NON OF THE UDD’s business here and let the government, police/military, law courts deal with the PAD. If they want to protest, stay put at Sanam Luang…

3. I am increasingly frustrated that very few commentaters (let alone the actual players) are really interested in a solution, and it seems the only thing of importance is victory.

I am still waiting for my constuctive suggested solutions to be shot down in flames, or better still to be taken on board.

I will try again, and offer this reasonable solution where PPP are seen to be doing the right thing for the people, not giving in to mob rule, and the country will be better off for it:

(1). Samak/PPP acknowledge that the constitutional amendment will be put to a new round of consultation to create a new ‘peoples’ constitution.

(2). PAD then can either go home (hopefully), or if they choose to stubbornly stay, they can be forced home.

That way there are no clear ‘winner take all’ victors, and ultimately the Thai people will be the winners.

Having learned from the past, all sides can put up their views on the constitution problem areas, argue robustly, try to reach consensus, and if that is not achievable, the remaining contentious issues can be decided by the people.

Is that not a way forward?

But everybody seem to agree Thai democracy now needs defending. Thaksin said so, without much conviction because of corruption-extrajudicial killing taint, and Thaksin had a great fall. Thaksin’s nominee Samak Sundaravej also is now saying so . . . and emulating his master Thaksin, Samak Sundaravej also now ludicrously wishes to address and educate the United Nations about the precarious state of Thai democracy (deja vu?). But PAD also believe they too are 70/30 democrats by obstructing mega-corrupts like Thaksin, or his proxy, from completely corrupting Thailand’s political development.

Now outraged Western journalists/academicians like Nick Nostitz or Andrew Walker believe they know more about how Thailand’s democracy should develop . . . and Thailand was/is already in the right path (of development) even with deeply flaswed Thaksin or his proxy Samak at PM. But by what prescience could you both (Nick and Andrew) claim that the obstruction of Thaksin and his proxy Samak Sundaravej, by rather far-out moralistic pretenders,Chamlong/Sondhi, was Thailand’s unique ‘breakers’ to dangerous politics under the guise of democracy?

Thaksin’s and Samak’s self-seeking democracy versions are very dangerous, have no doubt about that. When vote-buying, intimidation, thugs (Reds) and deep corruption culture are encouraged (backbone of Thaksin/Samak democracy version), Thailand will rapidly be consumed by the poisons these politicians inflict on the land.

Chamlong and Sondhi’s PAD will NOT get very far with their ridiculous 70-30 democracy idea. But they have already succeeded with educating the Thais that politicians like Thaksin and Samak, parties like TRT and PPP, when in power endanger the future of Thailand.

The Thais will now make their own history . . . with or without bloodshed . . . and we all can only bear witness and pass judgement . . .

I like what Sidh is saying – let the Government Make a Forum!

Let Thailand have a National Forum where Yellows and Reds can come up and give all the information – Free information [How bad Toxin+PPP have been, How bad PAD have been] and very democratic. Then people are left to decide what they want to choose.

I bet 1,000,000,000,000,000% that the Democratic Republic of Deutschland (TRT/PPP) will not want their “Reds” to have access to this information, having benefited from Controlled Information they have for the Reds –remember the pushback PAD received at Udon?.

Yellows always had mainstream Government media, and only when they hit PAD information, they get hooked — they were never imposed to believe in stuff from PAD.

Ok, lets let the Courts decide . [meanwhile the Academics and Students happily join PAD ... ]

I constantly think about my “impartiality” in this situation.

One thing to consider – my role as a journalist is within the confines of a Democracy, sort of the fourth estate of a Democracy. Without Democracy – there can be no impartial journalism, there will be no guaranteed rights and freedoms of speech.
PAD aims to replace Democracy with their “New Politics” – and this is is the same sort of Democracy in name only as, for example, East Germany called itself “German Democratic Republic” but in fact was a Stalinist dictatorship.
PAD has already proven sufficiently to me, that they have very little respect for impartial journalism, critical questions are not permitted, are discouraged, journalists are threatened regularly at rally sites.

I am bound by the laws of a democracy. PAD has set itself completely apart, is because of the ongoing illegal and unprecedented occupation of Government House completely outside any constitutional right to demonstrate.

Furthemore – their actions are already affecting the poorest of the poor already. And that i see as maybe my most important role as an engaged journalist – giving a voice to those sectors that are threatened by exploitation.
In my wife’s village, the poor can’t find day labor anymore. The quarry in which my wife’s brother works is on strike, and he sits at home – broke. Farmers can’t sell their produce anymore because the mill labors are on strike, and of course therefore they can’t hire harvest labor. Not that most of these workers want to strike, but the Unions ordered it.

My “impartiality” is within the confines of a democracy, and it does not include a group that is completely outside it, and furthermore, tramples over the rights of the weakest of society.

Of course, i am very uncomfortable with the resulting almost anarchic actions of pro-government forces – but read me – these are logical reactions to the present situation that were initiated by the decision of the PAD to leave the confines of constitutional resistance to a government they don’t support, including the dismantling of the legal system y their not anymore that shady backers – parts of the army, the Democrat Party, certain members of the Senate, and other social conservative forces.

I would have no professional problem with PAD camping in, let’s say, Lumphini Park, and staging from there regular marches. I might not like their aims, but that would be within their constitutional right. But that they have left behind the day they started at Makhawan Bridge, the moment they have built an countrywide underground network with the aim to topple the democratic system.

Continuing my quest for constructive proposals, what’s so hard about doing this:

1. Samak/PPP acknowledge that the constitutional amendment will be put to a new round of consultation to create a new ‘peoples’ constitution.

2. PAD then can either go home (hopefully), or if they choose to stubbornly stay, they can be forced home.

That way there are no clear ‘winner take all’ victors, and ultimately the Thai people will be the winners.

Having learned from the past, all sides can put up their views on the constitution problem areas, argue robustly, try to reach consensus, and if that is not achievable, the remaining contentious issues can be decided by the people.

Leave the courts to deal with the PAD leaders, Samak, Thaksin & Co (or if that is just too hard ‘politically’ give them all a one off blanket amnesty in the name of reconciliation, and a 10 year political ban to go with it!)

I accuse PAD as being the aggressor because it has committed unconstitutional and illegal actions in order to stage an insurrection and a revolution, with the aim of overthrowing the democratic system embedded in the constitution, and to replace it with their “new politics”.

With their backers subversion of the legal system at every single step of PAD protests, they have set the stage for this and future anarchic incidents here in Thailand.
Police has tried to deal with PAD – they were stopped by 30 Senators and Abhisit’s appearance at the scene at a crucial moment of an ongoing court ordered operation.
The courts have issued warrants against the leaders, yet they hide behind their mob, and police is not allowed to do a thing against this outrage.
The government is obviously not able anymore to do what every other country would do – declare a state of emergency, disperse the protesters with whatever means necessary, charge the leaders with treason, and get back to business of governing the country.
Encircle them, what police has tried, starve them, let protesters come out, arrest any Naclop Srivichai and the military personal in the compound, and everybody known in a leading position.

So we can get to the business of moaning about the government without more people getting killed in the now resulting anarchy.

The longer the legal system is disabled by high ranking PAD backers, the more of such anarchic attacks will result. Until we find ourselves in a situation that has completely gone out of anybody’s control – and that seems exactly what PAD leaders want.

There simply was no need to do all this by the PAD. The courts were working even in their favour as the Pojaman conviction has shown. The Samak government is a weak coalition government that nobody would have expected to survive this legislative period.

If you support the PAD – then you do support a ultra-conservative, ultra-nationalist movement that wants to overthrow democracy by unconstitutional means.

I have called for that forum since our discussion on the Udon incident – and hence I always pointed the finger at the TRT/PPP government for NOT PROVIDING THAT FORUM in their past 6-7 years IN POWER (and going as far as suppressing press freedom)… I am glad that we now agree on this.

I also agree with Kusons and nganadeeleg that the PAD phenomenon arose from PMThaksin/TRT extreme excesses. To put it bluntly in Thai terms its “NaDan” to deal with “NaDan” (Thick face Vs Thick face)…

While I don’t agree with PAD’s attack on NBT or occupation of the Government House, it baffles me that on the night of the 1st, you probably heard the speech first hand from the UDD leadership inciting violence at Sanam Luang and the order to march 2-3KMS to ATTACK PAD at Government House; you probably marched with this crowd, armed and hungry for blood; you were in right in the middle of the melee – yet you ACCUSE the PAD of being the aggressor!!!???

From my point of view, it is NON OF THE UDD’s business here and let the government, police/military, law courts deal with the PAD. If they want to protest, stay put at Sanam Luang…