Comments on: Thai crisis. Royal silence.

By: Ed Norton

Ed Norton — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:30:30 +0000

Seems like the silence has been erased: http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/13/politics/politics_30085941.php
Reminds me of 1976 and the run-up to the massacre on 6 Oct.

By: foreign correspondent

foreign correspondent — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:01:12 +0000

Middle-class battlers for democracy? Hmm. James Ockey in ‘Making Democracy’ describes how many Thais who died in 1992 – led by Chamlong, of course – were poor foot soldiers of the movement. The middle class participated, yes, but here as elsewhere the lives sacrificed to ‘revolution’ in whatever form are usually the workers’.

Not to belittle anyone on the barricades, just a factual point.

By: Portman

Portman — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 08:37:30 +0000

Whatever one may think of them and however flakey their leaders, I personally I think referring to the PAD as “the extreme right”, as R.N. England did is an oversimplification. They represent the city dwellers who are fed up with being governed by corrupt polititicians and big businessmen who are elected by the rural voters. This is a reasonable gripe. Equally PPP certainly doesn’t represent anything approaching a left wing. That doesn’t exist in Thailand where overly powerful and persuasive labor leaders and social activists are regularly murdered and disappear with minimal investigations from the authorities. PPP exists solely to provide material benefits to its politicians. These largely represent the Thai-Chinese middleman class upcountry, e.g. rice millers and money lenders, and big business in the capital. They have no vested interest in sustainably improving the lot of rural voters, any more than the PAD has a vested interest in supporting owners of capital over workers.

The problem is that educating the rural masses is anethema to both sides. Educated rural voters would no longer vote for corrupt PPP politicians and middle class city people fear that educated rural people would no longer settle for poor wages and working conditions. Nevertheless, upgrading the almost worthless public education system upcountry, instead of regarding the Education Ministr as a piggy bank to be plundered at will, is the only long-term solution to Thailand’s social, political and economic woes. Ultimately with a better educated work force Thailand would be better able to compete in highly value added industries and there would be more pie for all to share.

By: Strong words from the ICG

Strong words from the ICG — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:42:00 +0000

[...] nice to those “senior establishment figures” getting a mention. As we have argued on New Mandala, one senior establishment figure in particular has made no attempt to withdraw his [...]

By: matty

matty — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:47:51 +0000

Thaksin, proxy Samak and their TRT/PPP cohorts were certain ‘ethical lapses’ could NOT be possibly comprehended by gullible villagers. After all millions of these villagers think there is nothing wrong with accepting money from politicians in exchange for their votes. And when Thaksin or Samak tell them that ‘corruption is normal’ in Thailand to explain those many corruption allegations and legal cases against Thaksin and Samak and a whole bunch of TRT executives, those villagers were only very quick to nod agreement.

Is that rural constitution or rural constipation?

Democracy and the spirit of democracy fail in Thailand BECAUSE OF unethical, morally bankrupt and criminally inclined political leaders in the mold of Thaksin Shinawatra or his proxy Samak Sundaravej.

By: Sidh S.

Sidh S. — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:47:27 +0000

Thanks Karmablues – and I naively thought “Toxic” was a play on “Thaksin” all along while it is an actual concept. Yes, the country was generally functioning fine, as Jonfernquest said – with gradual improvements – post-Black May up until the first couple of years of PMThaksin’s leadership when his greed, power-hungry and monopolizing tendencies clearly took over.

He gave democracy a very bad name and left a very bad taste for many in the Thai middleclass. In 1992 the urban-based middleclass FOUGHT THE MILITARY AND DIED for DEMOCRATIC RULE. In 2008, they support the PAD AGAINST AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT although the PAD leadership advocated an undemocratic clean politics – even if many personally do not support the 70:30 system. Something clearly went very wrong along the way and it is definitely not the monarchy, who certainly thought they can ‘retire’ with the passage of the 1997 Constitution and that the various independent bodies can keep check on the elected politician’s excesses and mitigate conflicts between the state and the citizen.

Many in NM seem to see PMThaksin (and now PMSamak) as a democratic hero – they forget that it is the Thai middleclass that fought for and define “Thai democracy” through their urban-based violent experiences in 1932, 1973, 1976, 1992, 2006 and now 2008. New Mandala has listened closely to the rural population (and I am deeply thankful for that) and formulated the idealistic “Rural Constitution”. I urge NM to exercise more impartiality and listen to the urban-based middleclass (old and young) too – believe me, they look at the quality of politicians in developed democracies, say in Australia’s (whether Liberal-National or Labor) with envy…

By: jonfernquest

jonfernquest — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 09:51:57 +0000

Thanks for those quotes karmablue. Seems like McCargo is pretty even handed with both sides in his argument. it’s too bad that people have turned the phrase “network monarchy” into a negative thing since in many ways it seems that this network is what held Thailand together and made it strong and prosperous for all those years. Thaksin was wrong to displace it as he did in the name of “democracy.”

Anyway, who’s going to be the next Prime Minister?
The court just ruled against Samak.

By: matty

matty — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 04:12:05 +0000

That was a very good post from ‘karmablues’. It helps to explain why every single TRT/PPP party members pledge undying allegiance to their Beloved Leader Thaksin Shinawatra or his designated proxy Samak Sundaravej.

The uneducated and the constipated rural people would have no way of comprehending what toxic leadership from Thaksin Shinawatra and proxy Samak Sundaravej means. They can only remember the ‘goodies’ or handouts from Thaksin, but would have no way of understanding the dangers of toxic leadership.

Jim Taylor seems to be an educated man . . . seems to be because Jim Taylor can bloviate endlesslessly in defense of Thaksin’s toxic leadership.

By: jonfernquest

jonfernquest — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 04:07:37 +0000

“I hope he is not kicked out on a cooking show ambiguity / technicality – that would be a travesty after walking the tightrope for so long now!”

Same with me. It would sound kind of ridiculous, even if it was technically correct, but being technically correct is what the law is about. Legal decisions are not about public opinion, although some powerful politician I guess could quickly rewrite all the laws based on the mandate of the rural masses and feel fully justified, although this seems ipso facto proof why Bangkok should be in full control of the country and not the two demographically strong rural swing regions of the north and northeast, as is the case now.

The appeal on the two year jail term that Samak currently faces (and was facing when he was elected) will be decided on September 25th. Supporting the sentence wouldn’t be unreasonable and would provide a clear message to people who consider themselves above the law because they are VIPs.

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:32:56 +0000

The above post by Karma Blues summarises brilliantly why the PAD have so much support, and also why the current conflict is at a stalemate.

The Thaksin/TRT/PPP agenda has forced reasonable people to behave unreasonably.

Samak would be doing a great service to himself and the country if he could ignore that agenda, and instead set up a new consultative process to formulate a new peoples constitution.

PS – I hope he is not kicked out on a cooking show ambiguity/technicality – that would be a travesty after walking the tightrope for so long now!