This essay, by Thongchai Winichakul, was circulated recently on the Thailand-Laos-Cambodia (TLC) email list.
Anti-democracy in Thailand
Thongchai Winichakul, Professor of History, University of Wisconsin-Madison
Thailand is facing one of its biggest threats to its still-fledgling democracy. The anti-democratic movement led by the militant People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) – a misnomer if ever there was one – is pressing for the end of traditional electoral democracy. The succession crisis looming once King Bhumibol Adulyadej passes makes the turmoil a “perfect storm” with no end in sight.
The turmoil began with the unprecedented success of Thaksin Shinawatra, a billionaire politician whose party won landslide election victories twice, in 2001 and 2005 (and again in 2006 but was nullified by a dubious court’s ruling). His success was due primarily to his “populist” policies that benefited the lower-class majority of the country. Thaksin’s administration, however, was marred by human rights violations and corruption scandals, exacerbated by demagoguery and intolerance of criticism.
The PAD emerged in early 2006 to fight Thaksin. It supported the return of power to the monarchy – usually seen as the highest moral authority in the land – to clean up corrupt politics. The instability created by the PAD’s protest paved the way for a military coup in September 2006. The coup regime took various actions aiming at preventing Thaksin and his people from returning to power, including questionable legal actions and court rulings, a new constitution and a closely-monitored general election in December 2007.
Despite those measures and a barrage of anti-Thaksin sentiment in the media, Thaksin’s party easily won that 2007 poll. The PAD took to the streets again, this time occupying the grounds of the prime minister’s offices, vowing to stay and fight until the elected government was ousted and a new political system implemented.
The PAD is the convergence of at least four socio-political forces, with different reasons for hating Thaksin so much.
The first is, generally speaking, the Bangkok and other urban elite. These people fought the military for parliamentary democracy at various points from 1973 to 1992. They have enjoyed political influence over several governments, exercised through the mainstream media and politically active intellectuals. But the strong economic boom of the 1980s and 1990s, and indeed the blossoming of electoral politics, has brought forth the rising power of the rural and urban poor, and the lower middle class, who form the electoral majority.
Elections and politicians representing them are their channel to get a fair share of the country’s resources and power. Thaksin’s success reflected this social change, as his party built up its strong mass support among the rural folks despite the increasing scorn poured on him and his supporters by academics and the media. The disgruntled urban elite believe that the rural folks are, in their words, too ignorant and stupid for democracy. Electoral democracy, to the elite, is not suitable for Thailand because money can allegedly buy a ruling majority. This “class” factor is the reason for strong support to the PAD among the urban middle and upper class, including the mainstream media and academics, many of whom become fanatics of the PAD.
The second political force is the “bureaucratic power.” Before 1973, under military rule, the country was run by soldiers and technocrats who dominated the upper echelon of the bureaucracy. They believe that they represent the public interest better than elected representatives, because they consider the latter to be naturally corrupt. Democratization and elections since 1973 have opened the door to people outside the circle of these bureaucrats, who consequently have lost some of their power. They believe that democracy breeds endemic corruption and that Thaksin was taking the country down to the abyss.
The third force that operates the PAD is activists from various civil society and labor organizations, and a media empire owned by the leader of the PAD, Sondhi Limthongkul. Led by former leftist radicals who are veterans of the struggles for democracy of the 1970s and 80s, these activists bring an anti-capitalist ideology into the 21st century with a conservative twist, rooted in nationalism. They consider Thaksin emblematic of “evil capitalism” and globalization that would harm the country. Fighting the “evil capitalism” has been one of the PAD’s slogans, and radical songs of the 1970s were common at the PAD gathering, although Sondhi’s Manager Media Group, which includes a daily newspaper both in print and on-line, a radio broadcast and a satellite television (ASTV) is highly influential. Not only does it often set the headlines for the entire country, but the PAD also builds up its base of supporters via the ASTV. The PAD’s propaganda runs around the clock every day, feeding the public with their ideology, concocted news and information, and rumors and lies that serve their political agenda and viciously destroy their critics. The PAD’s demagoguery is more dangerous than Thaksin’s by far. But it is effective; the PAD is now like a cult, with hard-core followers who think and speak alike close-mindedly, and becomes increasingly militant. As they claim political righteousness, they defied laws, dehumanized critics and opponents and intimidated them too, and armed.
The last but perhaps most important element of the PAD is the monarchists. They are a network of the powerful conservative, royalist elite with varying vested interests in having a strong and active monarchy steering the country’s political life. They are responsible for empowering the politically influential monarchy of the past 40 years, while promoting the image of a semi-divine monarchy “above” politics. The much-revered monarchy is in fact very political but masquerades as being above self-interest, and is unaccountable, thanks in part to the severe lese-majeste laws.
The monarchists saw Thaksin as a serious threat at various levels: a patron of some royals in line for the throne and therefore a dangerous kingmaker (literally speaking); a competitor to the monarchy for popularity and a pretender himself; and the mastermind plotting a republic. The general belief in Thailand is that the president of the Privy Council, if not the king himself, was behind the 2006 coup. As the succession looms, given the health problems of 80-year-old King Bhumibol, the paranoia among these powerful monarchists escalates. They cannot allow Thaksin, or any politician, to be in an advantageous position. At the same time, various factions among the monarchists are jockeying for advantageous positions for the upcoming transition. The monarchists and the succession concern turn the brewing hatred against Thaksin among the other groups into a perfect political storm. The PAD is probably honest when they say that they are fighting for the monarchy, except the former leftists in its leadership who can sing the royal anthem louder than the royalists if doing so helps them achieve short-term goals.
Some of the allegations against Thaksin are justified, while others are specious. Yet Thaksin opponents have gone all out to get rid of Thaksin, his political machine, and his mass base. The judiciary went out of their way to destroy Thaksin by several questionable rulings including one that relied on a dictionary rather than laws, and one that involved a serious violation of the proper judicial process. In doing so, they damaged their credibility and put the future of the justice system at risk. The PAD also instigated the nationalist hostility against Cambodia that led to clashes between the two countries. The Queen publicly offers her support to the PAD, giving royal cremations to honor those who died in a violent confrontation with the police, one of whom while transporting bombs for the PAD.
The PAD makes clear that its goal is to replace one-man, one-vote electoral democracy with their “New Politics,” aka “Thai-style Democracy,” with only 50 percent of the country’s lawmakers being elected. The PAD is clear in their intent to dilute the voice of the majority. Some power would be given to the monarch or the Privy Council, in order to balance the power of corrupt politicians. This idea of “Thai-style Democracy” was originally hatched in 1906 when King Chulalongkorn, an absolute monarch, argued against the emerging ideas of democracy. The elite’s distrust in people never goes away. The PAD does not realize that if this approach is implemented, the monarchy might be headed down a dangerous path, because a powerful monarchy is bound to eventually become unpopular, and rarely lasts long.
The PAD’s strategy and tactics are to provoke violent confrontations, with unrest to serve as the pretext for military or royal intervention. Despite its violations of laws and highly aggressive actions, the PAD’s accumulation of arms and its increasing militancy have been condoned and excused by academics, the media and several human rights organizations, including the National Human Rights Commission, because their common enemy is Thaksin. They help provide an intellectual shield for the group.
The PAD behaves as if they are above the law because, after all, as many in the country know but cannot openly say, their ultimate supporters are among those in the highest places in the nation.
While I agree with AjarnThongchai’s general sentiments and the dangers of undemocratic PAD, the article almost assume a post-Thaksin scenario. In my view, this is jumping the gun and the direct and covert battles – in the parliament, on the streets, in the global/local media, in the courts etc. – between PMThaksin and PAD will continue for many years. This is a fight ‘to the death’ between two undemocratic monsters. The country could be burnt – but neither side seem to care.
AjarnThongchai seem to also assume a PAD victory. That is not guaranteed in this long-term conflict. 73 billion baht and exile in Bahamas is too high a price for PMThaksin (who is clearly attached to his country). Exploiting PMThaksin’s electoral popularity to win elections and dominate/benefit from government resource allocation is too high a price for PPP and what ever it evolves into. And that may be a reason why any signs of dialogue (and there were a few) between the government and PAD is quickly quashed – such as by the comedic-tragic events of Oct 7th (intentional incompetence on the part of the police?). Many – most Thais desire peace, however, many stand to lose from it and that clearly includes PMThaksin and groups in the PAD.
The likelihood (and I could be very wrong of course) is that this will be a stalemate – and in the scenario that it gets bloody, we will see negotiation sooner rather than later. And the likelihood of violence is also high and not because PAD is armed to the teeth – but because, I would argue, violence, the threat of violence, and the culture of the ‘Third Hand’ is inherent in Thai street and/or electoral politics (and I am sure AjarnThongchai is fully aware of this). PAD, as with UDD – and the security forces’ approach to crowd control – is a symptom rather than an exception.
And post-Oct 7, we will not see security forces cracking down on the PAD in the near future as the 2006 coup made the chance of another coup less likely (but still possible). The army’s defined role, at least under GenAnupong, is to keep the Reds and Yellows apart – and GenAnupong has stragically minimize the chances of the ‘Third Hand’ by having people close to him control Bangkok’s battalions. His ‘neutrality’ is highly unpopular in both sides of the divide but very sensible in this context. This will prolong the stalemate until a critical mass from each side see sense (and the pending recession may be the catylist) and agree to meet and talk. I think this could be possible in the next reincarnation of the TRT/PPP government, when there’s no militant PMSamak with high political capital or PMSomchai from The Family to directly protect PMThaksin’s interests…
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as expected the PAD is losing favour with Thai people
crazy publicity stunts by Sondhi to try to keep his protest business
rolling along have shown his true motivations
everyone realises that the police are being scapegoated for the PAD
insane and illegal actions in armed and violent occupation of government house and the adventure to blockade parliament house
the PAD vigilantes are creating terror in the community, shootings and carrying grenades and pingpong bombs around the city… so the Democrats try to give cover to their mates
the Democrats should be working as a serious opposition assisting the government handle the global financial crisis, the important ceremonies, flood relief, Asean, assistance for farmers, health, education, all vital to the health and wealth of Thai people
the PAD leaders should be in gaol and bona fide protesters work out how to protest peacefully and constructively for a better Thailand
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Thank you for this very thoughtful and intelligent analysis of the present situation in Thailand. If only such intelligence and thoughtfulness were readily available to the consumers of Thai newspapers and TV.
As it is ASTV and the Sondhi media machine, Thailand’s version of the FOX News network in the U.S., feeds an endless stream of brainwash fodder to its minority audience of hungry fools and tools, leading Thailand (which could and should be a great country given its location, resources and the skills and talents of its hard-working people) towards a cliff of backwardness and regression.
Hopefully, it will all be over soon, with Sondhi on trial for his many corrupt transactions and anti-state activities, the PAD a distant memory celebrated only on T-shirts and the Thai people back on the road to being an important and integral part of the modern world.
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What an absurd comment by Sidh S. He’s made mistake on many points, especially, the one concerning the role of Gen. Anuphong.
Those who are of the right mind could easily understand why Army Comander refused to carry out his duty. It is pretty clear that “Someone” behind the PAD, who are wielding so much influence upon the military, warn him not to inflict any harm to “their people”.
His duty is obviously not to be a buffer between two hostile groups of people. The intervention from the so-called “Invisible Hands”, actually they are rather the “Untouchable” due to the protection provided by the draconian law of the land, is so real and obvious that one cannot dismiss.
It is immaterial whether or not the PPP is disbanded. The policy responding to the needs of the people is the key to win their trust.
Take this line to your bed time then:
“to say that society ought to be governed by the opinion of the wisest and best, though true, is useless. Whose opinion is to decide who are the wisest and best?”
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Dear Sir,
The essay Thongchai Winichakul, is without a doubt, THE best crafted piece of balanced reporting I have yet to see on this very controversial subject.
His delicately written view on Lèse majesté is a classic and could well get through “neutral” Thai “censors” unedited if he can find the right forum. Although I doubt it would be a widely read “mainstream” publication, as these appear to be controlled by factions.
I also respect his courage writing this way, Thailand is deeply divided and dangerously close to using violence to force one view over another..
I would like to ask the “editor” of THIS forum…. “Does he get to read our comments?”
Brian
PS “RANK” Your quote: “to say that society ought to be governed by the opinion of the wisest and best, though true, is useless. Whose opinion is to decide who are the wisest and best?” is a keeper..
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PAD is a personification of the dying throes of a feudal mindset. Koon Sindh is obviously an intellectual, given the many comments that he wrote in NM. It is also obvious that Sindh is part of the feudal elite, whether he admits it or not. perhaps he would wake up one fine morning, have a flash of insight and realise that the feudal mindset is not sustainable in the mordern world as people becomes more educated and empowered.
I am not talking communist here, but a society built on democracy, compassion and respect for the basic needs of your fellow human being.
Whatever Thaksin may have been and is, he still was the best PM that Thailand ever had. The economy was booming and life in the countryside improved significantly. The idea my friends is to increase the size of the cake.
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Dear Brian,
Yes, there is a very good chance that Ajarn Thongchai will stop by and read these comments, as he does from time-to-time. Such is the beauty of the medium. If there is anything particularly noteworthy we sometimes draw it to the direct attention of writers whose work is featured on New Mandala. They are usually very heartened by comments such as yours.
Best wishes to all,
Nicholas
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Thanks Rank#4. No mistakes there – at least where your comment is concerned. The army, at least under GenAnupong, has decided not to be used as a tool by either TRT/PPP to crack down on PAD, nor for PAD to stage a coup against the government – nor to stage a coup for itself. I suggest you then trace the Thai army’s track record in politics back to 1932 and you’ll be surprised at the improvements.
Thanks HCLau#5. I’m afraid polishing PMThakin’s “shiniest side” while keeping ignoring his “darkest side” is not a path for peace and reconciliation. His shinest side certainly makes a case for him to be considered “the best PM that Thailand ever had” but his darkest side may cancel much of that out. Let me know what you think when you factored both in objectively and carefully.
And let me be clear here, I have stated that I generally agree with AjarnThongchai’s sentiments – what I did in post#1 was situate that in the current context and speculate what could happen. That is all. If you agree with my speculations, please just say so and give us good reasons why. At the end of the day, they are merely speculations with better chances of being wrong than right as Thai politics is like a game of chess played by a dozen people not coordinating their moves, many playing for both Reds and Yellows (just read what GenPallop Pinmanee has been up to lately in today’s Thairath!). You never really know what is happening and why…
Look, just with the PAD alone, AjarnThongchai identified four groups. It is quite likely that without PMThaksin in the equation, the four groups will find very little to agree on.
With the PPP coalition, it is a bit more straightforward – just follow the money trail (only that the money trail is no longer straightforward as there are lots of convoluted off-shore detours) to the biggest punter…
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Is this article available in Thai?
I circulated it among some friends, and they are as enthusiastic as many NM readers are. A copy in Thai would be quite popular.
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dear Koon Sindh,
I am malaysian, my mother is Thai from the farming community in the south of Thailand. I have a whole bunch of relatives who are are farmers in the south, small business people and also some rather wealthy ones, whom I play golf with in bangkok. I have borne witness “first hand” to their living standard improvement (my poorer cousins) during the Thaksin era and the degradation after the 2006 coup. I do not need a deep intellectual discourse to see that Thaksin is better for Thailand. Even my southern Thailand relatives have to grudgingly acknowledge that despite being anti-Thaksin.
At the end of the day, govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that. The entire political scene in Thailand is corrupt. I have no illusion about that and the most corrupt is the military folllowed by the police. Anyone who thinks that the military is a guardian of good clean govt in Thailand are seriously kidding themselves or have their head stuck in the sand for too long.
All the cries for clean govt by the military is simply a smoke screen to cover their real motives – get rid of Thaksin – he is a thorn who was slowly dismantling many of the established power structures. (currupt is a given)
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Dear HCLau,
Thanks for reiterating the “shiny” side, we can agree on that – can you now comment on the following:
- Southern Unrest (Krue-sae, Takbai, Sabai-Yoi, Police kidnappings (e.g. Somchai Neelapaijit)?)?
- War on Drugs’ ‘collateral damages’ where many, innocent or not, have been convicted and executed without trial?
- Abuse of power and rendering democratic parliamentary, Senate mechanisms and checks and balances meaningless e.g. Liverpool buying saga to coverup CTX?
- Conflict of interests in various government-business dealings – Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall – few seem to mind PMThaksin’s populist policies, but they won’t take it when it’s their taxes and not his that pays for it)? Remember the sale of PTT shares (and who benefited)? EXIM Bank loan? Remember the “we have no bird flu and I’ll eat fried chicken to prove” it episode?
- The suing of various activists and journalist for inexorbitant sums? He’s still suing, mind you, but won’t take it like a man when decisions go against him…
- His highly devisive tendencies that he has admitted himself “We will serve areas that vote for us first” recaptured in today’s Chai Ratchawat’s political cartoon in Thairath:
http://www.thairath.co.th/showcartoon.php?cat=983
Just a few of his “darkest side” from the top of my head – and some of the reasons why many, mainly urban-based Thais (even before the PAD phenomenon) will not agree with your “Thailand’s best prime minister” judgment…
Look KhunHC Lau, I totally agree with your assessment of his shiniest side and that much more of the state budget should be put into the rural sector for the betterment of the poorest – but please don’t try to white-wash PMThaksin’s and cronies’ crimes. Yes the military, police and other politicians are corrupt, but that does not mean we should let PMThaksin off the hook. As the most powerful prime minister in the country’s history, he must be held accountable to much highest standards, at least the high standards expected of him under the 1997 Constitution that he has worked under…
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What is new about Winichakul’s op-ed piece? It just repeats the same mantra and issues we’ve been hearing for years with nothing really new.
HC Lau: “govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that”
Government is also about rule of law, rulers not using the state as their personal money making machine, about not encouraging the police to kill or allow people to be killed in an extrajudicial fashion (make a death list and everyone on the list dies and then say you didn’t do it?). About not hitting everyone who criticises you with a defamation suit. About not secretly using lese majeste a weapon (this is what Silak Suvaraksa claims in his Bangkok Post op-ed piece “Institution of monarchy and lese majeste” today)….
Sidh: “I’m afraid polishing PMThakin’s “shiniest side” while keeping ignoring his “darkest side” is not a path for peace and reconciliation.”
Exactly Sidh. Thaksin is history. People object when 10 to 30 people died extrajudicially in the Burmese so-called Saffron Revolution. That was the rounding error in Thaksin’s democratically popular drug war, a rounding error that many innocent people got caught up in. Choose between a murky “democratic” Thaksin police state or a military state subservient to a king who abhors violence. That’s a no brainer. Winichakul always uses his pulpit to frame issues in a certain way. For the real story: Read Thak Chaloemtiarana “Distinctions with a Difference: The Despotic Paternalism of Sarit Thanarat and the Demagogic Authoritarianism of Thaksin Shinawatra,” Crossroads, 19:1 (2007), pp. 50-94.
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jonfernquest mentions:
>”…a king who abhors violence…”
Oh, really? More than you, or I, or my taxi driver, or your average Buddhist general down the block?
Maybe (and just maybe) he talks the talk, but what evidence is there that he walks the walk?
Specifically, can you cite any public (or private) opposition by His Majesty to the assassination campaign against the left in 1974-76? Dismay for the Thammasat massacre? Speaking out against the not so occasional brutal treatment of Vietnamese boat people and Cambodian refugees in the late 70s and 80s?
Ah, perhaps you are referring to his belated and mild turnaround on Thaksin’s drug war?
On a separate note, maybe you could convince Ajarn Thak and/or Northern Illinois University to put his article online and in the public domain. I’m sure many people would like to read it, but it doesn’t appear to be easily accessible. Perhaps you could even bootleg a scan of it, law-abiding though you may be.
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“Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall”
For your information, there is no capital gains tax for shares sale in Thailand. Sondhi don’t pay tax for any shares sale, and neither do any of Thaksin’s critics for sale of shares. What amazes me is that the so call intellects failed to notice that the sale is simply not taxable under Thai law. (by the way, neither is tax payable for shares sale in malaysia)
Why is then Thaksin singled out for tax liability???
I won’t go into the drug war, as we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with (refer colombia / mexico)
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HC Lau: I try not to comment on Thai politics anymore, but ….. Regarding the tax free sale – IMO, the ultimate sale is tax free, but not the Ample Rich transaction that preceded it.
I recall previous discussions here, or over ar Baggkok Pundit’s site, if you are interested in getting more detail.
Hobby
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Lau: “we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with”
In fact, we do not. You miss the point entirely. There is nothing more idiotic than someone agreeing with an extrajudicial execution, with the logic or lack of logic running: they shot him therefore he is guilty. Execution without trial, police being the judge, jury and executioner, is a completely separate issue from “harshness.” That rural folk can’t see this and at the same time listen to monks that praise killing (there were some) is ipso facto proof that some are in fact stupid. Sorry there is no other word for this. Winichakul says: “The disgruntled urban elite believe that the rural folks are, in their words, too ignorant and stupid for democracy” but knows absolutely nothing about this. Has he lived in these areas? Can he list any of the problems in these areas besides the ones he has read in some sterile academic paper?
Here is a test from a real incident. Choose the right answer. Three kids get shot in the head and dumped out of a pickup behind the hospital morgue. Everyone says the police were extrajudicially executing gang members. Answers: a. This is a harsh penalty therefore good (your answer), b. They deserve a trial and to have evidence presented before being executed, maybe they didn’t do it, c. the police know more than we do and criticising them will undermine their authority and means that you yourself are a criminal, we don’t need judges because police are good judges and a trial is unnecessary, just a waste of time.
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I have a question for Jon Fernquist, with whom I once worked in Chiang Rai.
While we were both there, a drug dealer who laundered the money through his tangerine farm was arrested. He was also somewhat prominent among the local elites.
This has been brought up in conversations I have had as proof that the drug war also took down big time drug dealers, not just impoverished Akha and Wa couriers. I dimly recall that there was something else going on with his case, but do not remember.
Do you remember the particulars? While I completely agree with your outrage about the “extra-judicial” part, I wonder how that prosecution of the tangerine farmer fits in with the “big fish” issue.
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I totally agree with Thongchai and Sidh .
To my point of view , the most serious and unacceptable deed of Thaksin was his genius in orchestrate the independent authorities eg: the constitution court, the election committee etc the way benefit him most , tore down the check and balance mechanism completely. That’s the reason why those desparated people gave the 2006 coup a strangest warm welcome, and suffered the consequence of the coup later.
Both sides do dog-fight for their own interest , care for none of the collateral damage they created.
Reconciliation also mean nothing to the interest of the majority of this country, as long as the check and balance mechanism is not restored (fair and effective). And who is going to do this ? Another new hero for Thailand ? When will they learnt.
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HC Lau, please go into every point I raise if you can…
Thanks Jonfernquest and Nganadeeleg for providing those details and exposing our Malaysian colleague to PMThaksin’s dark side.
Just to open up the discussion a bit, I will guess that KhunHC Lau is a fan of PMMahathir, who PMThaksin has also tried to model his leadership after. But wait, maybe he is a fan of Anwar Ibrahim – who was accused (most probably politically motivated) of sodomy and faced years in jail (apart from the beating up and torture he endured) and now making a political fightback?
The reason I pose the question is that it may be unfair of me to ask KhunHCLau about Thai politics. We can learn his thoughts through the discussion of Malaysian politics, currently experiencing a very interesting phase – which he definitely know more than us…
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Based on the paper that Thongchai writes here and the excellent papers he has published in all kinds of places, and comparing them with the considerable comment jonfernquest places on NM, I believe that most impartial readers would consider that Ajarn Thongchai’s ideas carry considerably more weight for they display a remarkable and deep knowledge of Thai history, politics and society.
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A worrying anti-democratic development if Thairath’s political news team’s sources are accurate. They seem to imply what a truly cornered PMThaksin may be capable off and that both sides (PMThaksin & PAD) now desire the same thing – a coup:
ระทึกกว่าคิว ‘อภิรักษ์’
(“More Intriguing than Apirak’s Case”)
in
http://www.thairath.co.th/news.php?section=politics03&content=111361
I’ve cut and paste the last few paragraphs with my rough translation:
มันไม่ใช่สถานการณ์ปกติธรรมดาแน่ที่คนระดับนายสมชาย วงศ์สวัสดิ์ นายกรัฐมนตรี ซึ่งปกติจะเงียบและสุขุม อยู่ๆก็ออกมารับมุกว่า
จะมีการขนอาวุธร้ายแรงเข้ามาถล่มกันในกรุงเทพฯ ดีเดย์ หักดิบกันหลังวันที่ 29 พฤศจิกายน
(“It is certainly not ordinary for a normally quiet and calm person such as PMSomchai to come out and say that highly destructive weapons is being bought into Bangkok for a decisive struggle after November 29th”)
สอดรับกับระเบิดรายวันเต็นท์ชุมนุมม็อบพันธมิตรฯในทำเนียบฯ
(“which coincides with the daily bombing at PAD’s base at Government House”)
ล่าสุด นายไชยวัฒน์ สินสุวงศ์ แกนนำม็อบพันธมิตรฯ ได้เข้ายื่นหนังสือผ่าน พล.ต.สุรพันธ์ พวงเพ็ชร์ ที่ปรึกษากองทัพภาคที่ 1
เรียกร้องให้กองทัพภาคที่ 1 ในฐานะที่ดูแลพื้นที่ กทม. ใช้กฎอัยการศึกในการควบคุมตัวบุคคลที่มีพฤติกรรมเข้าข่ายเป็นภัยต่อความมั่นคง
อ้างว่า พฤติกรรมของสมาชิกเสียงข้างมากในสภาผู้แทนราษฎรและรัฐบาล มีพฤติกรรมที่เป็นกบฏต่อระบอบประชาธิปไตย อันมีพระมหากษัตริย์ทรงเป็นประมุข
(“Recently, Chaiwat Sinsuwong, a leader of PAD, has issued a plea to MajGenSuraphan Poungpetch, First Army Advisor, calling for the First Army to use the emergency degree to monitor and control people of threat to security, adding that members of the parliamentary majority and the government have behaviour mutinous to the constitutional monarchy)
เขี่ยลูกใส่พานให้
(sending the ball to the soldiers)
และก็เป็นนายฮิวเบิร์ต อเล็กแซนเดอร์ อิงแกรห์ม นายกรัฐมนตรีบาฮามาส ออกมาเปิดประเด็นร้อนข้ามโลก พร้อมให้ พ.ต.ท.
ทักษิณ ชินวัตร อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรีของไทย ใช้ดินแดนบาฮามาสเป็นที่ตั้งรัฐบาลไทยพลัดถิ่น (Government in exile)
เพื่อเรียกร้องความเป็นธรรมจากเวทีโลกในฐานะรัฐบาลที่ได้รับเสียงจากประชาชนไทยส่วนใหญ่
(and it is PMHubert Alexander Ingram of The Bahamas saying that he is ready to let PMThaksin use the Bahamas as base for the Thai Government in Exile to call for justice on the global stage as the government that won the majority of the people’s vote)
เปิดทางให้ล่วงหน้า เหมือนรู้ว่าจะเกิดอะไรขึ้นที่กรุงเทพฯ.
(Clearing the way as if knowing what will happen in Bangkok)
Sounds very sensationalization (which Thairath is a known master)- yet, in the current climate, very plausible. Personally I hope the First Army are ready to handle this without having to conduct a coup. Being an optimist, I am reading that PMSomchai’s ‘good side’ has issued warning of the wrath of his very angry and humiliated brother-in-law…
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You are right , Sidh some key players on both sides had chosen the violent way (coup) to end this power play game. It’s just a matter of time (when they can successfully create generalized upheaval) for the militants to stage a coup .
It’s the same age-old (vicious cycle) plaque of this country.
Anybody knows how to break it ?
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There is no easy way out of this for Thailand with so many vested and corrupt interest trying to maintain status quo. New people trying to get a bit of the tuff (so to speak). To me one thing is quite clear. Whatever and however, the democractic process must be accepted and violent disruption to get your own way should not be seen as acceptable behaviour. Until people in general accept that, Thailand will go thru coup after coup.
As a side story (true)
“recently (8 months ago), my cousin brother ran and lost in a city councillor election in a southern town in Thailand (sorry, will not name place) he was bitching and moaning about the tactics, possible vote buying etc of the guy who won. I advised him to just shutup and work on a better service centre – previously he had a desk at his shop front – to provide assistance to the general public. After endless bottles of beers, he finally agreed and has now opened a proper service centre. he is now much better known in the place”
I hope he will be able to do better in the next election. For that we will have to wait and see. Whatever happens next, it is still better than for him to bitch, moan and protest endlessly
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I still think the way to break the cycle is to keep practising democracy…
it really isnt that important who the leaders are… except to the opposition who try to get everyone to focus on personalities…
imagine if the PAD wasnt there, would we take much notice who the PM is… we would be interest in interest and exchange rates, the prices of goods and services, whats happening with the farmers, etc… when are they going to buld that damn freeway, BTS, whaever…
well, lets just act as though the PAD is not there… they soon will fade and we can concentrate on important things!
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HC Lau…..
I forgot to say I really like your side story… realistic and persistent
a useful parable of how to live ones life in an equal opportunity society
and best of skill/luck to your cousin
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“jonfernquest”:
Your argumentation that villagers have approved of extrajudicial killings would be a testimony of their “stupidity” is a fallacy.
First of all, during the hot period of the extrajudicial killings in the drug war, not just villagers, but people from all spheres of Thai society have approved of those killings, including H.M. the King (please go back and read the birthday speech of 2003, but not the “Nation” translation, in which this point was conveniently left out).
Also Manager Media was a main tool of promotion and justification of those killings.
You may argue that the wide approval of those killings is then a sign of “stupidity” by almost all of Thai society. Which i would also argue against.
The approval of those extrajudicial killings is a sign of several things. Firstly it is a sign that in fact the drug situation was dire. Secondly, it shows that Thai society still is within a tradition of using extraordinary brutal solutions for real or perceived threads to society.
And regardless of agreement or not with the extrajudicial killings (and, for the record – i do not agree with this horrific aspect of the drug war), it was very effective. For many years after – drugs were very difficult to come by. It may have been horrible, but not stupid.
Only now, since about 6 months, coinciding with the beginning of the latest political turmoil, did drugs return massively, and are available again in every village and every soi (yesterday i have taken photos of industrial workers smoking Amphetamines, and we also talked extensively about the development of the street market of the last couple of years).
And lastly – i have lived in rural areas, i am married into a rural family. I do not see people there any more stupid regarding politics than in urban areas. On the opposite – i do see people there discussing politics more frequently and openly nowadays than in many urban settings. And these discussions are mostly more free of ideology nowadays than under the urban middle classes.
Of course Thailand is a democracy in development, and the many aspects such as the lack of awareness of Human Rights show that there is still a lot of work to be done. I do refuse though the notion that rural people are somewhat less “intelligent” than urbanites.
I would suggest to discuss the drug war killings with PAD protesters – you may find that most do agree very much with those extrajudicial killings as well. Because many of those, as the two most powerful core leaders – Sondhi L. and Chamlong, were Thaksin supporters during that time.
I also wonder very much how you can cite Sulak’s rather confused text. His writings show absolute lack of understanding on how Lese Majeste cases work. In these cases no government has any influence whatsoever. The cases are filed, and can be filed by anyone. Authorities have to follow those cases to the end. And especially, if you look at the particulars of most of the recent cases – they have been filed by people close to PAD (or police was pressured by PAD), or filed by a particular Police officer very close to the Democrat Party, or private citizens. Who in fact did file the case against Sulak is still not known.
If the government would be able to influence these cases, Jakrapop Penkair’s case would hardly have been given to prosecution.
We can in fact conclude here, that the tool of “Lese Majeste” is nowadays mostly used by the opposition to the government.
Prof. Thonchai’s piece here may be nothing new to many, but your factually wrong comments show that the views expressed in this text have to be stated over and over again.
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Sidh S
I suppose you intentionally try to draw the government and and, without any evidence I can see, Thaksin into your scenarios of armed struggle
I have reread what Khun Thongchai and Khun Somchai have said about the activities of the PAD and, if your translation is accurate, “highly destructive weapons is being bought into Bangkok for a decisive struggle after November 29th”.
I cannot see anything there that implies that it is the government that is bringing weapons or that they are planning to be part of any decisive struggle after November 29th.
I you believe there is specific evidence that the government are involved other than as monitors and the police trying to stop and arrest the perpetrators whenever they discover them, then please advise us.
I believe the PAD is currently declining in support because it has made no significant progress toward meeting its backers objectives, if anything public opinion has hardened against its methods and whatever people can understand are its objectives. I think many people are now convinced that Khun Sondhi is continuing the protests to meet his business wealth objectives rather than any focus on his backers desires.
Because of this, the PAD is trying to discover stunts or events where it can achieve some actual progress. A bloody encounter could provide some more material for a further round. Seems to me you are one of the agents intent on assisting the PAD to this next goal.
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I am wondering what people think about and know about the palace’s coordinated peace campaign? It seems clear from statements overseas by various MFA officials and the reports in the press, from Sumet, KPI, Anupong and others that this is a serious attempt to get PAD to go home. Any views would be appreciated, especially thoughts about what this movement might say about democratic development.
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David Brown, ask Thairath for more detail on that. It is their report. I specifically translate it because they have the largest leadership and, arguably, the most diverse sources of informants. As mentioned, I would also encourage you to try separate the plausible facts from the sensationalization, which Thairath is also known for…
David, I am sure you know Thai politics well enough to know that the government does not have to be directly involved (as arguably, the Democrats are not directly involved with PAD). Their supporters such as the LoveUdon group, UDD or any convenient ‘Third Hand’ – known or unknown, can do the job for them. Never assume that PMSomchai is in total control of the TRT/PPP political machine. Anyone in both side of Thai societal divide know that he is a mere “nominee” – in the first instance, of his wife Yaowapa, and, since PMSamak’s demise, directly of The Master…
It is also rather naive to say that PMThaksin has nothing to do with any of this. My apologies if you sincerely believe when PMThaksin said/promised that he will not be involved in Thai politics and will spend his time quietly making merit and doing good things for the country, and his phone-in to his 80,000-100,000 fans at Rajamangla Stadium is not politically motivated. If that is the case, we’ll have to agree to strongly disagree…
Thai media also consistently reports of PPP politicians flying directly to London, Hong Kong, Beijing (whereever PMThaksin happens to be) to cut deals and lobby for cabinet positions. The latest being Newin crawling to The Master to beg for forgiveness. Again, I am relying on media reports and you might not consider that as any ‘evidences’. I can only hope that you are not one of those people who is attempting to white-wash PMThaksin saying that he is totally innocent of all alleged crimes…
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Nick #26, concerning Lese Majeste cases, the police prosecuting the cases has a lot of influence. They have been known to ‘drag their feet’ for many, while religiously pursuing others – in this case, AjarnSulak, who has to answer the same allegations at a few police stations!
It is also a rather strong accusation against AjarnSulak saying that his “writings show absolute lack of understanding on how Lese Majeste cases work”. You might need to get one slammed on you to actually emphathize and ‘understand’… There seems to be a choice between the direct Da Thorpedo and indirect, Anti-Thaksin path to Lese Majeste enlightenment…
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“Sidh S.”
There is very direct involvement of the Democrat Party with PAD. The southern contingent of PAD is clearly supported by the southern Democrat network, Somkiet is a Democrat MP.
Abhisit has come on the 29th of August to the rescue of PAD when police has nearly dispersed the protest at Makhawan, and at the 7th of October Democrat led BMA has refused the requests of police for firefighting equipment to use as water throwers.
Kraisak Choonhavan, another early PAD supporter, is a Democrat MP.
And the list goes on…
You are right, Somchai is not in “total” control of the TRT/PPP machine. But neither is Thaksin (and he never was). This is one of the biggest miscalculations of his opponents (next to the notion that TRT/PPP voters only support this party because they are uneducated and bought).
The many factions in that large group are at best cleverly managed, or, in case of the UDD, are allied but still keeping their own separate ideological identities.
Of course the symbol of Thaksin’s name is a major rallying point for the majority of the government’s supporters. Yet the political visions of many of the leaders of the groups within UDD are not limited to bringing Thaksin back to power.
What Newin is up to nobody really knows apart from himself.
Thai society is right now in rapid development, and in the next few years we will see many surprising changes. Media reporting lags mostly far behind those developments, which unfortunately means that the general public is relying on mostly wrong analyzes.
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“Sidh S.”
Every Police officer involved in a Lese Majeste investigation dreads those cases, maybe nearly as much as the accused. They will be watched closely, and any slight mistake can be fatal for a career.
Every slight utterance of the accused has to be interpreted (and translated in case of done in a foreign language) by several academics independently. Results of such have to be closely adhered to by investigating officers. There is no leeway possible as is with other offenses.
I would suggest interviewing Police officers that have been/are involved in those cases.
What may appear as “dragging their feet” is simply the fact that some of those investigations are extremely time consuming to investigate and need enormous manpower, while others aren’t. The Da Torpedo case is rather clear cut under existing law, as was the case of the drunk Swiss man.
The Jakrapop case is very difficult, as the speech was in English, and therefore several Professors for English had to be consulted. Also there are very powerful vested interests putting on pressure in this particular case, and they are not in the government, or the investigating police.
Given the complications involved in such Lese Majeste cases, and the lack of explanation of such in Ajarn Sulak’s text, i can only come to the conclusion that he either does not understand how they work, or that he is somewhat misleading his readers.
But – that should also be mentioned – Ajarn Sulak has been walking on the edge for a long time with some of his statements concerning this issue.
Also, who in fact did file his particular case is still open to debate. I just do not take his word and interpretation without knowing what in particular he said and a confirmation that in fact it was a “red shirt” that filed his case in order to simply hound him. Just because Sulak is reportedly close to some in the leadership of the PAD does still leave room for different interpretations of what happened.
We should not jump to conclusions just based on his own article, a text that has omitted several basic facts on the procedure of such cases.
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Over on Bangkok Pundit I posted this on the Sulak article. Apologies for cross-posting this, but want to see the response from NM readers:
If I read it correctly – and it is somewhat incoherent – Sulak is unhappy that he is charged with LM but considers Thaksin and his supporters and the current govt should all be accused (again and again) of LM. He then says the law is over-used and lacks meaning (presumably not when it is used against his enemies).
Let’s be clear on Sulak. He is a monarchist but is not very enamored of the current incumbent of the throne. That has always been his position.
Sulak also expresses his gratitude to the palace and the king’s sister for having been nice to him on previous occasions when he has been accused of LM.
That’s good for him I suppose, but I was in a meeting back in the mid-1980s when Sulak had been released from Prem’s prison (to coin a phrase) on LM charges and a member of the palace made it clear that they thought Sulak was just a little mad and had needed to be taught a lesson.
It does seem that there were more LM charges thrown about under Thaksin’s govt than immediately previous govts. However, it must be recalled that much of this had to do with being seen to be loyal. Indeed, Thaksin’s govt did go on the warpath over the publication of the Handley book in what was largely a show of loyalty.
In this article, Sulak takes a rather too personalized approach to LM when he might have taken a more principled approach. But that is Sulak I guess.
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Thanks for the comments #31 & #32 Nick. I maintain my point made – and this should address Dog Lover’s comment #33. AjarnSulak is not writing as an ‘objective observer’ concerning LM – but as an experienced and scarred veteran. He is, unlike us, a full participant in the mainly political game of LM and thus his “understandings”, at least as publicly expressed, will rarely match ours…
Of course the police dread LM – as it is an elite’s game played with multiple pawns/nominees. The police often either ‘drag their feet’ or prosecute with gusto, depending on the influence of powerful backers behind the pawns/nominees – and this applies for both sides in the present situation, whether Red or Yellow. PMThaksin, for one, has often been accused of LM, but is pretty much ‘TeflonThaksin’ in this case – not as lucky are his underlings…
On comment#31, we agree on the general point there that Thai politics is now a highly complex game played by multiple agents with varying agendas – so many that, viewing from outside, ‘democratic principles’ and ‘self-interests’ seemed to have been totally blended.
We can also agree that the main rallying point for both sides is PMThaksin. I doubt that the multiple factions in PAD or UDD/PPP will hold together or agree on much post-PMThaksin. Look how quickly the Red crowd in Rajamangkhla Stadium dispersed once The Master’s phone-in was over! A general election is near (with party dissolution pending) and all PPP factions need PMThaksin phone-ins in their respective provinces. As with PMSamak and Newin, they are not always loyal once in power – hence now only members of The Family can take the helm (with Thaksin’s sister Yinglak or GenChaisit rumored as favorites after PMSomchai gets his likely 5 year ban) .
I also agree with your comment:
“… Media reporting lags mostly far behind those developments, which unfortunately means that the general public is relying on mostly wrong analyzes…”
However, this applies in most societies, especially those more connected to the internet, with information overload. It is increasingly hard to separate ‘truth’ from ‘infomercials’ and ‘spin’ – in the Thai context, if INN, who is the source of ‘global’ news favourable to PMThaksin (e.g. Honorary Citizenship of Bahamas; Anti-poverty advisor to Central Africa; Bahamas propose ‘Government in Exile’ – which Thairath seemed to have quoted etc.) turn out to be questionable:
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1226908633&grpid=00&catid=01
Finally, when it comes to present Thai politics, it is quite likely that we are all relying on the “wrong analyzes”! Even PMThaksin – who’s gamble after gamble seemed to have backfired on a grand scale (and it doesn’t bode well for Thai politics and PMThaksin himself when he is very angry, vengeful, cornered, humiliated. He will not think straight and only make more big ‘mistakes’)…
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hi Sidh S
you have not been listening to what people from the Truth Today rally have been saying
the primary focus for them is one-person one-vote democracy!
I know from personal experience at the rally, the surprising number of people that volunteered they were their to support democracy!
and others have made the same comment in public!
most of these people also admire Thaksin, many are waiting to see if any of the court cases really stick on him, but actually they admire him because he convinced them all that democracy is useful and effective for electing governments in Thailand.
Democracy is what we are about!
And I think the PAD are not sincere about hating or despising or focussing on Thaksin…. peoples emotions about him are just a means to the end for the PAD leaders to fool you supporters!
The PADs real purpose is to get rid of elected governments, they want elite control… and the hate Thaksin campaign is just to fool you supporters!
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Sidh: My comment on Sulak is that he has a personalised view of LM. Which is what you say as well about his perspective. The problem is that by personalising LM for his own case, he cannot take the principled stand and oppose the law. Indeed, he seems to argue that the draconian law should be applied to others but not him. But as I noted, this is what one has come to expect from Sulak.
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