Comments on: The medieval price

By: Nero Hansen

Nero Hansen — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:17:30 +0000

Everybody who opens his/her Lonely Planet will know about the “sentiment”. Honestly, I don’t believe a novel might contribute to the establishment/improvement of the human rights at all. As far as I read did the author lived in Thailand for quite a while. I don’t judge it it terms of “this is what happens” but in terms of “something to deny oneself” while being a guest or expat in the Kingdom of Thailand. Using the law to extinguish opposition is a completely different topic. PS: Great webiste by the way, thumbs up!

By: Nick Nostitz

Nick Nostitz — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:14:13 +0000

“Nero Hansen”:

I am getting very tired of the “when in Rome…” phrase. This can easily be turned around. As Thailand aspires to be part of the global community there are also certain universal rights, such as freedom of speech and thought.
The increasing sophism with which the draconian punishments for Lese Majeste are explained draw not just criticism from western countries, but from the Thai population as well.
There are no absolutes here, and Thailand is no more “special case” than any other country in the world is. A compromise between the national interest and the demands of the global community has to be worked out here. Punishments from 3 to 15 years jail for this offense, i am sorry, are no compromise.

The romanticism of absolute monarchy is completely unrealistic. Corruption happens in such systems as much as in any other system. In a democracy at least people have the opportunity to vote their representatives out of office. And there is the hope than one day a society of equal opportunities is created, under which excessive corruption will decrease.

There was more than a bit of criticism against Mother Theresa, by the way, for example her strong stand against birth control in a country that has a massive problem with overpopulation.

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:04:56 +0000

Nero: I haven’t got much to add to what Vox & Frank have already said above, and I think I am just about the last person on here to be asked to argue for the merits of democracy.

You asked: ‘what is a foreigner’s point to write about the monarchy?‘

If you are referring to Harry, then I don’t think one or two sentences in a few hundred page book really counts as writing about the monarchy – have you read the alleged offending sentence?

On the other hand, if you are referring to Handley’s TKNS, then I think one of the reasons Handley gave for writing the book was because no-one had done it before – I’m sure we all would have liked to have seen Thai’s be allowed to write such a book.
(but are they even allowed to read it?)

By: James Quilty

James Quilty — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:28:52 +0000

Has someone re-published what he wrote? I feel as I always do in these cases, totally blind. How can you judge someone if you don’t know what his crime is – what he actually wrote? And who decides what is offensive? And how do you know it’s offensive if no one talks or writes about it?

By: Frank G Anderson

Frank G Anderson — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:57:17 +0000

The old “If we are foreigners we have no business commenting on foreign affairs” argument! It never seems to fade away, even with wisdom.
These so-called sentiments, or sensitivities about the monarchy and over-emphasis on human rights and democracy and freedom of speech, these sentiments are not just sentiments. If they were, that would be fine. But the sentiments are translated into action, into harassment, into incitement, into criminal prosecution, into imprisonment, sometimes into death. They cease being sentiments when they are transformed into action – individual, group or collective, that removes inalienable rights of life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, free speech and that democracy that many people are these days fond of blaming for the world’s ills.
Just because I am not married to my neighbor’s wife when he starts beating her to death does not mean I am not obligated to call the police.
Here in Thailand, the country and its agencies are, and have long been, covered by international human rights and free speech protections that are generally not safeguarded, promoted, permitted or recognized. this Thai Rome that some are wishful thinkers and apologists for wrongdoers are so fond of is not a Rome where people are, or should be, entitled to do what they want how they want. This is a global issue, and because it happens here in Thailand to involve a small group of Thais who share the same interests wiht foreigners, does not mean that the cause is wrong, unjust or should not be fought. Many Thais would like to be free to speak, to act, but many end up dead because of ’sentiments.’

By: Vox Populi

Vox Populi — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:40:38 +0000

Nero & Jesse:

Your argument seeems to be ‘When in Rome, do as the Romans do.’ Which sounds reasonable, but is in fact absolute rubbish in this case.

In ancient Rome, ‘do as the Romans do’ would have meant keeping slaves, burning Christians, and raping children. Or perhaps we could phrase it as ‘When in Berlin, do as the Germans do’, and we all know where that leads. (Just broken Godwin’s law, but there you go . . . )

The point is that of course local traditions and customs should be respected by visitors, but equally obviously, there are just laws and unjust laws. And any law that places a person in jail for a three year sentence for one paragraph in a novel is unjust. Punishments must fit the crime, and in this case they patently do not.

By: Nero Hansen

Nero Hansen — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:04:59 +0000

nganadeeleg, but what is a foreigner’s point to write about the monarchy. especially, when he knew how sensitive that issue actually is. true, there are many people of your opinion and i am keeping my fingers crossed that Harry gets pardoned. as foreigners we should respect these thai sentiments and accept “roman” rules of the game, even if like them or not.

but some general question: what’s Thailand’s gain from democracy? corruption, vote-buying, populism? how about societal progress which actually came from wise monarchs such as Mongkut or Chulalongkorn? why is it mr. handley’s job criticize royal projects which “only worked out in propaganda”? did anybody blame mother teresa for the souls she didn’t save?

By: Coss

Coss — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:20:54 +0000

I believe he will receive a pardon from the king soon….

I am Thai and I also hate to see this law still being used in this country… we will never be a free country….

I love my king.. but I love my freedom just more…

Many Thai groups are about to protest in this use of law…and we shall Win… it’s inevitable…

By: nganadeeleg

nganadeeleg — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:55:44 +0000

OK Jesse, even if your 'when in Rome' argument made sense, what are your feelings about Thai's being nonsensically charged under this law for political purposes?

By: Jesse

Jesse — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:46:14 +0000

Every country, there are rules that we do not agree, however, you must follow the law in the particular country you are in.

He is well awared of the consequences and yet he chose to do it. No matter how many copies the book’d sold, he still broke the law in the kingdom of Thailand !