This past week the Red Shirts protested for 3 days at Government House. There is not much I can write about other than what did not happen. There was no violence apart from the incident in which one soldier was beaten up trying to infiltrate the protest site. Just like the Red Shirts announced from the beginning there was no occupation of Government House. It was all orderly.
On 24 February 2009 a crowd of maybe 15,000 protesters gathered at Sanam Luang, and proceeded to Government House. They were no blockades until they reached the compound. The government did not intend to let the Red Shirts surround the compound, and built a barricade with concrete slabs, a fence, heavy earth moving equipment and police lorries. The Red Shirts, though, soon removed the obstacles, reached the main gate of Government House, proceeded to surround the compound, pushed a few police lines out of the way, and settled. By that night a stage was set up and many Red Shirts arrived after work to listen to the speeches. The crowd was made up of many upcountry folks, but, increasingly, urban middle class types as well. For the next two days, the protest followed the same pattern: in the blistering heat of the day there were only small crowds, and in the cool of the evening there were thousands and thousands of people.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva’s access was not hindered on the morning of 25 February or later that same day when he greeted the ASEAN Defence Minsters (he is waiting for them in the first picture).
The police and protesters coexisted peacefully. What follows is a selection of pictures to give New Mandala readers a feel for what went on.
21 responses so far ↓
1 David Brown // Feb 28, 2009 at 5:11 pm
hi Nick,
thanks for your coverage…. it was good news the excitement level wasnt up to previous assignments…
do you have any specifics on the “infiltrator beaten up” incident?
like, how badly was he beaten? I believe he was taken to hospital after, was he admitted or released after checkup?
2 Nick Nostitz // Feb 28, 2009 at 6:25 pm
The incident of the beaten up soldier is still rather obscure. I have heard conflicting accounts, and can’t really comment on them right now before things are more clear.
I would anyhow not overstate this issue. Many police officers were attacked and beaten up by PAD (and especially after the coup by UDD as well). These very common incidents rarely made it into the media.
3 CJ Hinke // Feb 28, 2009 at 6:34 pm
It would certainly seem as if Thai government were protecting the yellowshirts and vilifying the redshirts. Its report on Oct 7 was inconclusive and did not assign yellowshirt blame nor do criminal charges appear to be forthcoming.
The very nature of the redshirts is what I find disturbing. There is no real platform that I can discern and local groups can act as they wish, e.g., breaking up Chiang Mai’s gay pride.
Many Thais who crave real change, including Ajarn Ji, think a mass movement is necessary. I disagree: a mass movement is always reduced to its most reactionary element.
In 1960s US, most persuasive actions were taken by individuals or small groups. Others chose to work on the system from within the political parties and we all know how well that worked out!
Some idealistic and realistic philosophy of change in practice, with nonviolent action at its core, is the only element which can win lasting change.
4 DeepBlueSea // Mar 1, 2009 at 5:09 am
Majority of Thai people demand change. Professor Giles simply points it out in open public. The continuity of political oppressive with lese majeste law will only increase and deepen tension.
I sincerely hope Professor Giles’ principles be taken seriously. Majority of Thai people is serious about change. I prefer to see a peaceful transition to the Republic of Siam, otherwise armed conflicts like in the South will spread across the country.
The military should not try to save Sanan Kachornprasart and Abhisit Vejjajiva at the expense of the majority of Thai people. Abhisit is illegitimate. The military should take action to correct this mistake. The country has come to far to accept illegitimate Abhisit.
The awareness of Thai society has developed beyond PM Thaksin. The military should allow the civil society to grow and mature, it is a healthy social and political development. In all seriousness, the military should recruit Professor Giles Ungpakorn as an advisor.
5 David Brown // Mar 1, 2009 at 12:36 pm
CJHinke
seems to me the red shirts have a platform… so am interested if you have more specific views on what you think they should do…
just for the record I think the redshirts…
represent a mass movement, most of their mass background people see Thaksin as the symbol of what they want in Thailand
the red shirts I think have a more sophisticated and detailed view
they want Thailand ruled by a government elected by the people, more specifically democratic elections under the 1997 constitution rather than 2007
they want reliable unmanipulated justice system in Thailand that applies to everyone (they are obeying the law, they want the PAD punished for breaking the law, they want the manipulation of the court that convicted Thaksin to be recognised and undone)
it is true they do not have a strong autocratic discipline to stop renegade and foolish groups as in chiang mai and udon
the PAD were a movement, but now they have regressed to an action group inspired and funded by the military and elite families masterminded by Prem…
the PAD is a single objective group with a hierarchical control chain which gives them cohesion and power… their objective is to preserve the wealth and power in the tradional hierarchy where the ordinary people are slaves/buffaloes
6 Regular Reader // Mar 1, 2009 at 4:24 pm
David Brown, you really make me laugh with lines like :
“I think the redshirts…
represent a mass movement, most of their mass background people see Thaksin as the symbol of what they want in Thailand”
Then a couple of sentences later, you follow it with this :
“they want Thailand ruled by a government elected by the people, more specifically democratic elections under the 1997 constitution rather than 2007 they want reliable unmanipulated justice system in Thailand that applies to everyone”
Apart from your assertion that “they” want elections under the 1997 constitution (of which you or I have no proof) I would agree with you, that this is a noble desire.
But, where I draw the line,is when you associate that with your man,Thaksin.
Did Thailand have a “reliable and unmanipulated” justice system from 2001 to 2006 ?
I don’t think so.
So how would bringing your hero back, achieve something, I too, think would be a good thing ?
You tell me?
7 Colum Graham // Mar 1, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I hear that there are TVs being sold with red-yellow static in Bangkok. Has anyone seen the new wave of blue shirts about? Their aim is simply to provide a tri-colour spectacle. Maybe when Thailand is a liberal democracy, there will be a full 64 million colour spectrum! (only 1.7 million to go…)
Just reading the responses that the red shirts are provoking here suggests to me, that the arguments about the direction of Thailand are still on the wrong level as the level seems to be one only where rams can butt heads. It should not be so mono – the red shirts needn’t be promoted to be ‘more’ than the supporters of Thaksin, because there seems to be a sensationalisation of the something Thailand is lacking, or of the chasm that is ever growing between the two parties views on Thai identity. The sensationalisation of the PAD led to ridiculous incidents.
Coverage of these movements is interesting because it is seemingly used to suit whoever has an opinion on what they think is ‘Thai’. Maybe a ’shirt’ joined up for personal vengeance, or because his or her friends did, because they were bored, wanted a free drink, because they are sick of the ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ mentality or indeed that they feel Thai culture is somehow under threat. Maybe all of those reasons! Just because ‘they’ wear the same shirt, doesn’t mean their reasons for being part of it are the same.
For me, the real sickness is categorizing the reasons of those part of the PAD, or those part of the ‘red shirts’, and lumping masses of people together under supposed reasons. By doing this, we perpetuate the situation and make it increasingly un-resolvable as the rhetoric of ‘one must prevail over the other’, is implied. The analysis of ‘the mob’, is like trying to guess what the angry beast will devour next. Generalisations, like those above, bleeding hearts for Thailand like Giles (gripping the podium tensely emotional), and those rubbing their hands together while this all goes on, their political will maintained, will only see the beasts keep running savagely and exponentially growing more than whatever they originally were.
There never seems to be mention of those rational people who aren’t taking part in the madness of those adorning a ’shirt’, liberally growing with experience in life irrespective of whether they are exposed to a “functioning democracy”. I hope their rationality isn’t pervaded by the mob mentality (which we are part of) who are perpetuating the generalization game. This whole situation could very easily find itself portrayed in an edition of Wheres Wally. Those sitting on New Mandala, at the bar looking on as idle speculators.
The only time anyone wins is when Wally is found.
8 David Brown // Mar 2, 2009 at 10:00 am
Regular Reader and others
its always good to laugh…
meanwhile, a common theme here seems to be to ignore it is the military and elite rulers that are continuing to repress the majority of Thai people
for example, its Prem that seems to be the manipulator of justice in Thailand… even the original case against Thaksin that he misrepresented his assets in the Chavalit(?) government that could have stopped him continuing as PM… is said to have been manipulated by Prem for Thaksin to win… this must count as the beginning of a blowback of almost US proportions
anyway… CJHinke… I am waiting to hear if you think the PAD have a platform” and what you think it is
and … Regular Reader… in between guffaws… perhaps recognise I was stating that many (most probably) red shirt supporters see Thaksin as the instigator and hero of the democratic movement… which is independent of what you or I might believe… but its something we all should recognise and understand when looking for ways to replace rule by Prem, the senior military and the elite families
and… Colum Graham… if you just want to look and are happy if Prem, the military and elites keep ruling life in Thailand, so be it… please do not stand in the way of change that is important for Thailand
9 Regular Reader // Mar 2, 2009 at 2:47 pm
David Brown, thnks for your comments.
I accept that many people in Thailand think Thaksin was the instigator of the current moves towards a more democratic society.
But, is that so ?
He certainly likes people to think it is.
More important though, is what the consequences would be for Thailand if he did come back.
Do you honestly think, the place would move ahead – in a democratic sense, with a totally fair justice system ?
History indicates, Thailand has always had difficulties in these areas of governance.
I contend, that bringing such a figure as Thaksin, back into the game, would only perpetuate the culture of heirachal paternalism, which is at the centre of many of these problems.
People – of any shirt colour – have got to learn that “hero” figures are more often than not, victims of that old, “power corrupts,absolute power corrupts, absolutely”.
I do say, if the democratic aims of the “red shirts” as often stated, can help destroy this dependency, I am all for them.
Perhaps they also understand, it is important to move beyond relying on “super heroes”……..how about you ?
10 David Brown // Mar 2, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Regular Reader….
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I would have thought that for Thaksin to come back the heirarchical paternalism, excercised by Prem and the elites would already have to be somehow overcome … currently it is their hold on power through the military and the courts that is keeping him away
If Thaksin comes back I dont see it guaranteed that he would be PM again… he would have to compete in the democratic electoral process… and as we know in other countries, nothing is certain until the people speak in the ballot box
I guess this is what people mean when they claim Thais do not understand democracy, they dont understand that democracy means the majority wins and the minority have to swallow their egos and try to work constructively until their next chance to run for election
the military and the elites keep falling over their egos and spoiling Thailand… pity, they still have a lot of learning to do
(btw… I forgot to mention that reverting to the 1997 constitution was the third of the red shirts 4 demands previously nailed to the gate of government house in the rally before last)
11 Colum Graham // Mar 2, 2009 at 4:12 pm
David, I don’t think there can be change while the clash of competing claims about Thai identity is so predictable. Would those wearing red shirts be wearing red shirts if the PAD didn’t wear yellow? I don’t think you can reduce what I have said to indirectly supporting the elites.
I must have failed to express that I think individuality needs to be more acknowledged amongst the groups, and in this way, they are not just part of yellow or red entities, they are individuals all of whom are Thai. The reasons behind people joining either group are not talked about beyond what it means to already be part of that particular group, and this is substituted for a reason to join.
If one happened to be an elite, don’t you think having two opposing groups arguing for the same thing, Thai identity, from different angles is a giant boon for maintaining power? Nothing is going to change while people are trying to provoke a reaction from (or to) what they feel is wrong with Thailand. As is often said, it’s easy to criticize. It’s easy to say what won’t produce change, and much harder to say how things can change. But.. as all revolutions are unique, perhaps Thailand’s will be the one where change comes easily through leaders who speak confidently?
12 Regular Reader // Mar 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm
David Brown – from your last comment :
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I think he showed strong elements of this during his time as PM.
Further, he does not appear to have changed his ways a lot since then.
But, of course that is just speculation on my part.
Never the less, I believe bringing him back will be no more than replacing one lot, with another lot – albeit their shirt colour might be different. But the paternalism and “daddy (or on this case TS) knows best”, are much the same.
Colum Graham makes a relevent point about why many people join the reds , or the yellows. I would bring that into this discussion, by saying, they do so ,because often, someone higher up, has told them so.
This is not a slight on Thai people’s ability to be democratic.
Given the chance,I know they can be.
But as long as leaders in this country – right from the village headmen, to right up there, perpetuate this culture, people will find it very hard to change.
The country needs unifiers, who can accept different points of view and not want to be, the only one in the spotlight.
And, certainly not PM’s who say “if you don’t vote for me, you won’t get anything”…to paraphrase your man.
I’m afraid, “track records” are hard to argue with in this case.
13 Colum Graham // Mar 3, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Regular Reader, have you asked people in the groups why they joined? Do they say ‘because someone told me to’, or do they say ‘because I felt the cause was just’? There might be other options.
14 Colum Graham // Mar 3, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Sorry, of course there would be many factors influencing someone finding themselves wearing a shirt as I’ve said, but Regular Reader, this ‘I know they can be democratic’ line is almost as condescending as me saying ‘there might be other options.’
15 Regular Reader // Mar 3, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Point taken Colum on the democratic abilities of Thai people.
I was more trying to take a swipe at David Brown.
He seems to think that Thaksin is the hero who can save the country.
What I was trying say, was that, given a clear path – with no Thaksin types, to hero worship – Thai people are as capable of being democratic as anyone else. They don’t need a hero, but they keep getting blinded by these characters not just now, but throughout history. And most of them have done more harm, than good.
I also agree with you, there are many reasons why people will join the red shirts – just as there are probably as many opposing resons, for joining the yellow shirts. But, it’s really the one’s in the middle who matter most – there’s a lot more of them. Just as there are, in most countries.
16 David Brown // Mar 3, 2009 at 4:43 pm
regular reader…
how do we find out what you, and all the other people that matter most, think?
perhaps by allowing and taking notice of your vote?
how do you suggest we ensure that Thailand operates under a system that has elections and uses these elections to choose who should run the country?
who is going to lead the effort to ensure Thailand has such a system?
(a superhero with faults or someone apathetic but perfect?)
17 Susie Wong // Mar 4, 2009 at 3:45 am
Competition is essential in any profession as a process to select the best qualify to do the job. When we allow people to cheat on the process, we then have the incapable and dishonest person as a leader. Abhisit Vejjajiva is the case in point. As a result, Thailand gross domestic product declines -4.5%, with an increase of 200,000 unemployed. Equipped with neither economic knowledge nor experiences, Abhisit offers no economic solutions.
With the military unfair interference in the political system, we ended up with an illegitimate Abhisit Vejjajiva who is Sonthi Limthongkul PAD agent. As a result, Abhisit Vejjajiva withdrew its lawsuits against PAD for the damage done at the Government house. When Abhisit could cheat on the democratic process, he could cheat on the rule of law as well.
Unable to compete, illegitimate Abhisit Vejjajiva focuses on using unfair law to destroy his political opponents in order to cope with his fear of a fair competition. It is time we take the country back from incapable illegitimate Abhisit Vejjajiva.
18 Regular Reader // Mar 4, 2009 at 8:58 am
David Brown, I give up!
You still see this whole thing in terms of your own environment and not that of Thailand.
This is not some thesis – this is real with real people.
Stop dreaming about an idea, which is not practical.
End of story.
19 David Brown // Mar 4, 2009 at 1:22 pm
regular reader
please help me, what is different about Thailand?
is it only that the senior retired and active military are in control which is like Burma, Cambodia or any number of other countries?
or is it something else peculiar to Thai society that I do not understand?
20 David Brown // Mar 4, 2009 at 1:22 pm
susie wong
great statement… thanks
21 Regular Reader // Mar 4, 2009 at 1:39 pm
David Brown as I said, I give up.
In answer to your question, if you don’t know I “ain’t gonna tell you”.
Let’s terminate this pointless discussion here and now.
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