If you want something badly enough, you figure it out quite quickly: telephones, the printing press, television, sailboats, construction techniques using cement and banking systems…

Interesting that the rather shrill Dave of Hua Hin mentioned the fact that many villagers can’t read or write. My ex’s mother is in the same boat.

Now, whose fault is that? Thaksin, or the elite forces (which are above politics remember- snort) that have been controlling this country for the last 60 odd years?

Although the exact details may be a little hazy, as I recall reading in Craig J. Reynold’s book on Jit Poomisak, there is a discussion of the distinction that should be made between the western concept of feudalism (which it is suggested could be construed as seditious) and the Pali/Thai concept of SAKTINA (the use of this term which, it is noted in the book, has never been the cause of a lese majeste charges.

Frank Lee / Bangkok

Yes Sidh S, I agree.

Observing Thaksin, it seemed to me that although in the West a class of yeoman have evolved – Bushes, Clintons, Kerrys, and so forth – trustworthy servants of the plutocrats who can be relied upon to look after the interests of their employers, and who will essentially work for wages, that in Thailand there had not yet evolved such a class. So the plutocrats had to roll up their sleeves and actually do the work themselves.

Or perhaps Thaksin just traveled in the wrong circles and didn’t know any of the young Oxonians who “could be had”. Or perhaps, knowing how intrinsically untrustworthy he is himself, he could not bring himself to trust such of those folks as he did know.

Whatever the case with Thaksin Abhisit does seem a sterling, reliable retainer for the sociopathic plutocrats. He is not even ruffled when they make a fool of him by feeding him lines both they and he must know are going to be contradicted immediately in action. He is a real professional.

Hua Hin Dave forgot to add how Thaksin would have responded to such questions.

a) Hold up a card with an ‘X’ on it, signifying he didn’t like the question, and would not answer it.

b) (addressing everyone in the crowd except the questioner) ‘Don’t listen to what outsiders say.’

c) ‘Trust me. I have a Civil Service Reform active that will make out country run more efficiently without interference from the legistlative or judicial branches,’

As for PMAbhisit, at the end of day, he is a politician – and I argue, more in the mould of an opportunistic Western politician with a complexly negotiated power base than the typical Thai ‘ThaoKae’, Capitalist-Mafia politician model where the main investor ‘owns’ the party and makes the key decisions. If I am not wrong, the Democrats invented the ‘Mr.Clean’ party leader paired with a ‘Mr.Dirty’ (but powerful) secretary-general with the PMChuan-Sanan partnership and now PMAbhisit-Suthep (if you look at the recent donations to the Democrat party, Suthep actually donated almost half of the total if I am not wrong). PMAbhisit may or may not be sincere about what he says or political reform, but even if he is serious he will have to convince the ‘kingmaker’ first who will also have to convince the ‘kingmaker’ of the ‘kingmaker’ Newin, who is the founder of the Reds, PMThaksin’s street supporters that AjarnGiles supports(!!!) and who probably have aspirations for the top post himself etc…etc…

Ah, the intrigues and complexities of Thai politics. Does AjarnGiles address these issues seriously enough? Does the foriegn academics invest enough time on this? Sadly, no on both counts. But this is one of the main mode in which the decisions that directly affect Thai politics/democracy and its future evolution are made. AjarnGiles and the foriegn academics have simplistically reduce Thai Democracy to Les Majeste law – a law that is the least of most Thai’s worries anyway… If you ask Thais to list the top 10 things they want their leaders to address – where would Les Majeste law reform come in? Interestingly, from their words and actions, it seem to top AjarnGiles and the the respectable foriegn academics’ list. If you ask democracy advocates, activists and fighters in Myanmar, Cambodia, Zimbabwe etc. – what will they say?

Yawn.

Let’s see, Paul Handley, author of The King Never Smiles was in Thailand for 13 years, making him 1.625 times more qualified than you to comment, and my humble self has been here for about 24 years, making me 3 times more qualified than you, right?. And I don’t live in a “dreaming spire” or “ivory tower” — not even a high-rise condo.

So, perhaps NM should have a ratings system, in which commentators include a index based on number of years in Thailand minus time spent at a university. Should Thai nationality be factored in, and how do we treat Thais who have been “tainted” by their time at a university abroad — double points off?

The silly claim for expertise aside, Hua Hin Dave’s comments lay out a reasonable case – though one I disagree with. Most of his various points have already been addressed at length on this blog, so I won’t bother.

One minor point I think should be addressed for the record. When you say “The fact you used your own children as unwitting innocent political photo op shills is appalling,” you might note that this follows the model set by the PAD since 2006.

PAD parents of course also brought their small children to situations where they admitted they expected violence in the form of police attacks (most notably, the airport occupation).

But of course as someone who has lived here since 2001, you already knew that, right?

You know, living in Thailand for 8 years or 20 years or whatever does give you more legitimacy than other people here.
If you talk about “Majority rule = abuse of power” then what about “Minority rule =??? ) in term of vote buying Abhisit is as guilty here, how do you think he lure Newin camp to his side?? yeah …..

And you talk about transparent in Abhisit government??? WHAT ARE YOU JOKING ABOUT???

A PAD leader is serving as a minister
rotten fish
rotten milk
immigrat abuse
money that appear from no where and dissapear somewhere

yeah, that’s really convincing….

And you said Abhisit is more open to discuss? I think that will be really hard to accomplish because many of his opposition is being charge for lese majeste and many had run away from Thailand, now who will dare to go against him??

SAMAK:
“What You Say? I no hear you….your mouth full of (insert expletive). What are you? Gay man? You wear lipstick gay boy? You not even Thai…you British!”

(Note: Samaks usual approach when faced with stiff questions was to directly assault the journalists sexuality, race or nationality.)

SOMCHAI:
“ermmmm……its the fault of the PAD terrorists…..eeeerrrmmmm…..scuse me, I just have to call my boss and see what he thinks…..”

(runs and hides in public toilet whilst calling Thaksin).

Under the “majority vote = abuse of power” regime headed by Thaksin democracy took a massive step back. Thaksin and his TRT party translated a popular mandate into a massive get rich quick scheme. They tore apart the judiciary and executive, and through nepotism and cronyism undermined both police and military.

Thaksin was personally at the reigns of the so called “war on drugs”, issuing the orders that resulted in thousands of extra judicial murders and disappearances. He escalated the southern conflict through poor policies and worse implementation.

His party was eventually proven to be behind massive electoral fraud and corruption, buying votes in the rural communities, stuffing ballot boxes, etc.

Thaksin also attacked media freedoms, arrested journalists and dissenters, and then victimsed more through direct partisan application of lesse majeste and libel laws.

Then came the coup that got rid of him….to popular support may I add. I was there…I saw it first hand. Parties in the sois in Bangkok…happy people.

Then came the next polluted round of so called democratic elections. Subsequent investigations again linked the new “Thakisn” party – the PPP – with electoral fraud and corruption, vote buying, ballot rigging etc. 76 MPs initially linked with direct corruption. 76!!!!

During its time in power the PPP staggered from one crisis to another, passing little or no legislation, getting no actual work done. Instead the PPP chose to focus on its usual round of getting rich as quick as possible, mudslinging, and disseminating rumor and gossip.

Then came the October riots and deaths of innocent protestors at the hamfisted hands of the police. Police acting under direct orders of the governement at the time – the PPP. Blood on the streets in Bangkok brought back the fears of previosu protestor massacres…..hardly surprising given key PPP members were also linked to previous massacres.

Finally, the courts ruled that the PPP were inextricably linked with corrupt electoral practices and they were disbanded.

Their coalition partners, seeing that the PPP were fatally tainted, and sick of the real boss (Thaksin) pulling their strings to his own gain, jumped ship.

A new coalition was formed. The Democrats came to power.

We have seen the same thing happen in the UK. Here we have had minority and narrow majority coalition governments….as many countries have had. Nothing improper there.

Unelected leader? Step forward Mr Brown, Presidents Ford and Johnson of the USA, and many many others by that rule. But hey, again thats just another false argument, another deliberate deception and distortion of what democracy means.

The Democrat coalition is, compared to previous TRT/PPP governments, much more inclusive, open and transparent. They are a long way from perfect, but at least they try to get work done, do their jobs, and run Thailand properly rather than as a get rich quick system for one family.

To the red shirted rent a crowd Id like to say this: Your boss, Mr Thaksin, is a liar, a cheat, a coward and a traitor. He is a criminal. His family are criminals. His friends are criminals…..and if you support his thieving, lying and cheating then so are you. The fact you used your own children as unwitting innocent political photo op shills is appalling. Nearly as bad as the spelling on the placards you printed using computers….it is spelt PRIME MINISTER ….and you attend Oxford? Wow! Academic standards really are slipping at the old alma mater.

To Prof Giles Id say 10 out of 10 for standing up for free speech, but 1 out of 10 for application. You and I both know that the charges against you were laid by a previous administration. You are being deliberately deceptive, and your wearing of red and using a foot clapper is below you. I used to respect you highly….now I see you as another red shirted shill of Thaksin. How much is he paying you for your public appearances? When you sided with Thaksin and his red shirt thugs you lost all moral majority.

And to the rest of you academic numpties who sit behind desks and discuss democracy as an abstract concept, Id suggest you apply the academic training I had at University, and get off your backsides and investigate matters before commentating on them.

I doubt many of you have been here in the last 12 months and witnessed democracy being forged in the political dung fuelled furnace that is Thailand.

I suggest you go pay a visit to my (Thai) family in Issan, and ask them why they accepted 200bht bribes and cases of whisky to go place crosses against the PPP box on the ballot paper. Try explaining democracy or popular mandate to people who left school at 12 to 14 and have slaved in a rice field ever since, earning less in a month than you do in one day.

No, its easier to sit safely in a country that has been developing its democratic system for about 800 years or so and lob stones, based on the claptrap, gossip and rumor that the Thai press produce daily, or the mistruths propagated by Thaksin and his red shirted cronies like Prof Giles.

Thai politics and democracy are about 75 years young, and it shows. But comparing it to the UK or USA, or expecting western style “democracy in a box” to flourish in those 75 years is a prime example of academic stupidity at its best.

Abhisit, unlike his predecessors, and particularly that foul mouthed idiotic bigot Samak, is at least presentable on the public stage, and is willing to discuss issues openly.

Please, stick to your dreaming spires and ivory towers, and leave running the real world to pragmatic cynics like myself.