In today’s The Nation, Pornpimol Kanchanalak has an interesting set of reflections on student politics, Thai politics and academic politics.
She takes aim at what she perceives as a few personal agendas…and clearly doesn’t appreciate the analytical interventions of those she mocks as Western “scholars” (her inverted commas). I guess she just happens to disagree with them. Disagreements are natural and human. And such disagreements are at the heart of academic and democratic life. Somewhere along the way those who hang around in Ivory Towers tend to learn that lesson. Social scientists, like the ones who have tried to explain the royal role in Thai politics or who have signed a letter calling for reform of the lese majeste law, spend their lives explaining society and doing their best to make arguments that make sense. Even when it is incomplete, the evidence is their best guide.
It seems that most journalists, and others who write for newspapers, are motivated by a very similar understanding of their role. Disagreements are part of what makes good newspapers fun to read. It’s also what makes the best of them really important; an awesome contribution to humanity. I happen to disgaree with Pornpimol but that doesn’t mean I need to belittle her by calling her a “journalist”. Disagreements are a huge part of democracy, and a major part of academic life. And that’s one of the things that is so exciting about both.
27 responses so far ↓
1 Srithanonchai // Mar 19, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Quite a shockingly ignorant and ideological article — and this is precisely one of the core problems of the current political climate and conditions.
2 jonfernquest // Mar 19, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“Ivory tower” implies lack of engagement.
Teachers who are working on the front lines or trenches of education like the author of today’s editorial are the truly “engaged” ones and should be given more of a voice.
They are the ones who actually provide the poor rural students with the skills they need to survive in the world, not some spoilt rich kid Marxist fantasy that will impair and disable them as far as the real world of earning a livelihood they face is concerned.
3 Richard Lloyd Parry // Mar 19, 2009 at 6:51 pm
This is something I have become uncomfortably aware of in the past few days: the conviction, among some people in Thailand, that those who hold a different opinion from them about (for example) the current Thai government, cannot simply be in honest disagreement with them, but must be serving some hidden agenda.
4 Susan Winton // Mar 19, 2009 at 7:43 pm
The 1974 uprising, eh?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/14/newsid_2534000/2534347.stm
Yeah, Westerners know nothing….apart from really important historical dates.
5 ThaiCrisis // Mar 19, 2009 at 7:43 pm
I think you are very lenient with this “journalist” (damned, I used the commas too).
What’s her point ? Basically, western “scholars” are wrong when they say that Thailand is less democratic now… because it was worse before, the journey has been long (1932 blabla)” !
Very often I find in articles written or statements by thai “scholars”, journalists or politician (Abhisit is very good at it) this totally childish idea : we have to excuse the present, because before it was more… (pick your word) worse, difficult or whatever else etc.
In other words, and translated on the political level : the current gvt and its supporters are telling us : you can’t say it’s bad now, because… it was worse before (with Thaksin, Samak).
I mean it’s the level zero of the thought process.
It’s a cheap rethorical mean to delegitimize any critics.
And of course particularly when it’s coming from westerners… because we all know that westerners do not understand Thailand, because they don’t really know the history of the country (going back to king Naresuan), right ?
We are outsiders.
6 John Francis Lee // Mar 19, 2009 at 8:29 pm
True, we have achieved to date one important milestone in democracy – namely, citizen participation in the democratic process. But the bigger question is what kind of citizens are we? Vote-buying is the norm; nepotism and corruption are willingly accepted.
Vote-buying is the norm… this from Bill Clinton’s bag lady?
Looking around our region, we see better citizens in less “democratic” countries in terms of them being well-informed, better educated and honouring accountability and commitment to building an equal opportunity society, with less or no tolerance for irregularities.
It’s the citizens’ fault? Those with the reins of power in their hands blame the current situation on those who are powerless?
The Bangkok “elite” hates the Thai people and will never forgive them the injuries they themselves, the Bangkok “elite”, have done to them, the ordinary Thais.
That sounds backwards, but its the truth. The plight of the ordinary Thai people stands as an indictment of the Bangkok “elite” and to their 77 years of misrule. And in “return” the “elite” hate them for it.
7 Colum Graham // Mar 19, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Jon, it seems to me that Pornpimol Kanchanalak has been given a voice on this site. Maybe for you Ivory Tower implies a lack of engagement, but how should the Ivory Tower engage? It’s inanimate – people must engage with the ivory.
Are you being self-depreciating with this spoilt rich kid Marxist fantasy? A child who has had two bowls of rice could be construed as a spoilt child if a family of three could only afford three bowls of rice. Jon, it seems like you’re arguing for social justice first by implying that she should not be mocked, and then you overlook what she has attempted to justify which is a narrative falsely content with the progress of Thai citizens. “What sort of citizens are we?” she asks, and then answers herself with loaded comments filled with prejudice about what it is to be civil. Then she makes ad-hominem attacks on those Westerners close to the ivory. And you support this sort of rhetoric with “impair and disable them as far as the real world of earning a livelihood they face is concerned”… real world earning a livelihood from whom? It’s their real world, and personally, I think the 1997 constitution guaranteed that it was their real world a little more than the present one.
Good for Pornipimol for expressing what she thinks on “The Nation.”
8 Sidh S. // Mar 19, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Great article KhunPornpimol Kanchanalak.
From the comments above, she also succeeded in opening a ‘Rashomon’ battle front between “Western scholars” and “Thai journalists”! Well done!
Despite both academics and journalists laying claim to ‘objectivity’ as the the lens through which they scrutinize and interpret the world, it is still fundamentally ’subjective’, framed by their socio-cultural biases. The “Western scholars” maintain that, viewing the ‘fish tank’ from a democratic outside, they must be right, while “Thai journalist” will counter that she must be right as she is in the ‘thick of things’ (and to continue the analogy, how can the outside viewer understand the ‘water’ and the ‘fish’?).
My two cents worth here, from a “Thai scholar working in a Western academic context” (a ‘fish out of the water’???)…
9 Ralph Kramden // Mar 19, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Good for the Nation for their continued support of Pornpimol Kanchanalak. And, of course, jonfernquest, for going the anti-ivory tower route yet again. Of course, Pauline was really at the sharp end of teaching….
Now go to the following:
http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/192/1037/594125/
http://www.fec.gov/law/litigation_CCA_U.shtml (scroll down a bit)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A07EFD81730F934A15751C1A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://freerepublic.com/china/12.htm
10 polo // Mar 20, 2009 at 1:21 am
1: This is the view from the palace, that politicians are necessarily corrupt: “We the people never have a real chance at democracy because all politicians do not care for it. They use it as lip service, as a means to legitimise their agendas and their looting. If they believed in it, we would not be where we are today.”
2. “Polly” Pornpimol of course embraced this view well during her period as a “journalist” — make that “powerbroker/lobbyist” — in Washington —
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1997_Special_Investigation_in_Connection_with_1996_Federal_Election_Campaigns/Section_7
http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/192/1037/594125/
Note she was an agent of Ban Chang, a company with a great history of connections (the Chatichai buffet cabinet)-real estate hype-bad debts.
But she can call herself a journalist now. That’s ok.
11 Observer // Mar 20, 2009 at 1:45 am
This is another “classic” argument from an elitist Thai perspective.
In summary:
“Our country is not as advanced as yours (farang’s) because our people, excluding the elitist intellectuals, are too ignorant. Only the elite (and intellecuals like me) know what democracy is. Therefore let us educate our ignorant populace and guide them to maturity first. Meanwhile, you, the outsiders, don’t understand our situation and often impose your own standard to judge others. You should stop meddling with us.”
The three main components of this discourse are:
1. Wise Elite = W E
2. Ignorant populace = I P
3. Meddling Westerners = M W
The whole article could have been shortened by saying “WEIPMW “, signed the author.
12 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Mar 20, 2009 at 1:48 am
I find it humorous that someone indicted for political graft would lecture us on “democracy”.
13 Observer // Mar 20, 2009 at 1:50 am
If we change “Meddling Westerners” to “Meddling Outsiders”, the acronym for this discourse would be “WE-IP-MO” — easier to pronounce.
14 Richard Lloyd Parry // Mar 20, 2009 at 1:12 pm
If you adjust the terms of the acronym to Wise Intellectuals, Peasant Elements and Meddlesome Europeans, it becomes “Wipe Me!” which is even more memorable.
15 Sidh S. // Mar 20, 2009 at 3:28 pm
It seems KhunPornpimol must have an interesting past – which work both to her advantage (’in the thick of things’ – or to use academic fieldwork language ‘participant observant’) and disadvantage (’skeletons in the closet’) in this context.
Observer, lets not try to reduce the complex phenomenon that is Thai society/politics (or any society for that matter) as it can be quite misleading. I propose (at least):
1. Wise Elite = W E
2. Corrupt Elite = C E
3. Wise and Corrupt Elite = W C E
4. Ignorant and Corrupt Elite = I C E
5. Ignorant populace (urban) = I P (u)
6. Wise populace (urban) = W P (u)
7. Ignorant populace (rural) = I P (r)
8. Wise populace (rural) = W P (r)
9. Wise Meddling Westerners = W M W
10. Ignorant Meddling Westerners = I M W
11. Wise Meddling Westerners (living in Thailand)= W M W (liT)
12. Ignorant Meddling Westerners (in Western “Ivory Towers”)= I M W (W”IT”)
13. Tourists = T
14. …etc…etc…
The permutations are endless, really (e.g. the elites in 1 to 4 may or may not have social, financial, weaponry capital – and the same people may even fall into more than one conflicting categories!)…
Yes, in reduction, you get quick interesting synthesis which may not necessarily be correct and /or accurate…
16 Sidh S. // Mar 20, 2009 at 3:36 pm
And to be the devil’s advocate how about:
15. Wise Meddling Westerners in Western “Ivory Towers” with Specific Agenda Pretending to be Ignorant (WMWW”IT”wSAPtbI)
17 amberwaves // Mar 20, 2009 at 4:45 pm
It occurs to me that jonfernquest should write the Thai version of “I Know What You Did Last Summer,” with the dangerous, horrible secret held by the teens in this one being that they attended a prestigious Western university.
It would be very pleasant filming in the summer at Oxford, Cornell, Madison or Berkeley. I’d go see it, I promise!
18 BKK lawyer // Mar 20, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Here is the New York Times article when the esteemed professor pleaded guilty to the two felony counts for funneling $690,000 in illegal donations to the (U.S.) Democratic party:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/22/us/thai-donor-to-democrats-pleads-guilty.html?scp=7&sq=Kanchanalak&st=cse
19 jonfernquest // Mar 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm
From my perspective teaching in a Thai university, I grew to loath and despise the Farang contingent of so-called experts flying in for the five day advisory junket as part of so-called “foreign aid” to tell all the locals what do.
What actually happens is that the locals (and us locally based and compensated Farang) sit around and listen to the Farang experts who are really clueless and not helpful at all because they don’t have enough on the ground knowledge to know what they are talking about (exemplified perfectly by the so-called realm of images hill tribe displacement article by these blog authors based on media reports). [One particular meeting stands out, when we were supposed to present our plan to educate hundreds of second year university students, meeting ended up consumed in the personal argument between s female PhD Farang expert from Univ Oregon dueling with a much less paid lower status female PhD Thai educated at University of Wisconsin, by the end of their duel everyone had forgot what the meeting was about]
The reality is that foreign institutions will be at the top of the heap in Thailand prestige-wise, for sure, but until they become more engaged at the ground level and less ivory-tower-esque faux-Marxist-drivellists, forget it, they are just not worth listening to.
20 doctorJ // Mar 20, 2009 at 6:30 pm
A lecturer at a university, (Thammasat, I guess) but misquote the year of the most important mass uprise in Thai history, completely unaware of what’s going on in the university and the political conflict at its highest peak! She must had been completely out of touch, or an ignorant …… in the ivory tower herself. On the bright side, the students didn’t have to suffer for too long.
21 Susan Winton // Mar 20, 2009 at 7:46 pm
I think it is worth pointing out again that both she and the editor got the date wrong.
Imagine how you’d feel as a parent of one of the murdered civilians.
For me this highlights the staggering obtuseness present in Thailand.
22 tettyan // Mar 21, 2009 at 1:11 am
What actually happens is that the locals (and us locally based and compensated Farang) sit around and listen to the Farang experts who are really clueless and not helpful at all because they don’t have enough on the ground knowledge to know what they are talking about (exemplified perfectly by the so-called realm of images hill tribe displacement article by these blog authors based on media reports).
Jon F:
And of course, your anecdote-based generalizations must be applicable to every foreign scholar who comments on this website! Or to anybody who just happens to disagree with you on LM, the PAD, etc. Yes, we’re all here just a bunch of ignorant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ivory-tower Marxists especially if we dare question what’s shown on Thai TV at 8:30 pm every night. Ah, but you’re a foreign scholar too, but you’re not like the rest of us, as you’re “enlightened” and see things the “Thai” way.
In case you were wondering, yes my family is Thai, and I am no Marxist. In fact most people would consider my political views to be conservative. But of course, I don’t claim to speak for all Thais, or all conservatives. I think most people on this site don’t claim to speak for others either – they speak becausae they have informed opinions based on their unique experiences. And in case you weren’t clear, you only speak for yourself too – you do not represent the unadulterated “Thai” view against some ignorant “foreign” view. You speak for yourself. Which is fine, I don’t think anyone disagrees with your right to an opinion. Nor should you denounce people for signing letters that express their opinions either.
23 John Francis Lee // Mar 21, 2009 at 3:14 am
You know I tend to dismiss this editorial from Pauline as just loose trashtalk. But the PPT’s pointed out that the military is beating the drums about a “plot” to overthrow the government, and Ajarn Thongchai’s antennae are up.
Are the regime’s stooges at the Bangkok Post and The Nation now helping to beat the drums on behalf of the military for more blood sacrifice?
Talk of the 2006 coup came first from The Nation, they seem to have the inside track on military thinking. I dismissed that as over the rop at the time. I thought it was passe. Little did I know…
Jonfernquist’s bolded talk of marxist foreigners plays into that anti-communist, anti-republican, anti-people rhetoric.
Things might be about to get very, very much worse here in Thailand.
24 Sidh S. // Mar 21, 2009 at 4:23 pm
John Francis Lee #23, it’s a common occurance that if there are conflicts concerning the yearly military reshuffle – especially if the politicians are involved in a tussle with the top brass, there will be rumours of a coup, if at least for the politicians to back off.
PMThaksin was well aware of that when he bumped GenSurayud upstairs (on their conflicting policies – business vs. security orientations – on the Myanmar border issue, if I am not wrong) he was said to call GenSurayud and asked “P’Aed, will you stage a coup against me?”. Before the 2006 coup it was PMThaksin’s “person above the constitution” and the tussle widely reported in the Thai media (and not just the English dailies) with PMPrem.
Post 1992 Black May, the military was discredited and the 1997 Constitution was also designed to keep them out of politics. By re-politicizing the military (especially after PMChuan-GenSurayud attempts, albeit slow, to reform the military), PMThaksin laid one of the many seeds of the 2006 coup. And what a transformation for them – from despised in 1992 to ‘hero’ in 2006 for many urban Thais (led by the same MajGenChamlong!).
Things could surely get worse – especially if there’s a violent crackdown on the Reds who are being rallied by PMThaksin’s very frequent phone-ins in the past few weeks. However, as long as the the security forces are professionally trained this time round and properly equipped (e.g. no more Chinese-made tear gas-bombs), it may not be that bad. Besides, in GenAnupong, they have a very cool-headed operator indeed.
Of course, PMThaksin wants an election now, before the highly capable Mr.Newin takes over Isan (via control of the Interior Ministry apparatus for one) and before PMAbhisit becomes comfortable in his leadership role (as some polls are already indicating). However he represents himself with people with highly questionable social standing (Chalerm), incompetent if not also corrupt underlings. Rumours of the Red leadership taking ‘a cut’ of the rally funds must have some truth when he decided to manage the opposition through his immediate family members (none of whom have any of Mr.Newin’s talents). Having AjarnGile’s spiritual and intellectual support is likely to erode his support further – especially if exploited by government.
In the longer term, the sad thing for Thai democracy is that PuerThai Party has not evolved into a viable opposition being dominated/handicapped by PMThaksin’s very personal agenda. Newin’s Bhumjai Thai Party is rumoured to be building a financial war chest that will attract/’buy’ PTP’s MPs into their ranks. PAD, in some reduced form, may also jump into the political fray.
Observer’s #11 “three main components” can’t even begin to comprehend the complexities of Thai society/politics/democracy – or any society/democracy for that matter. On the other hand, Observer’s components, when complemented with my 13++ components (more permutations welcomed!) in #15 and #16 is arguably a much more practical tool, better equipped to assimilate more “evidences” (refering to Nich’s).
25 John Francis Lee // Mar 21, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Things could surely get worse – especially if there’s a violent crackdown on the Reds who are being rallied by PMThaksin’s very frequent phone-ins in the past few weeks. However, as long as the the security forces are professionally trained this time round and properly equipped (e.g. no more Chinese-made tear gas-bombs), it may not be that bad.
Thank you very much for your insight into how this might play out, Sidh S. The 2006 coup was my first and the aftermath of that is bad enough for me. It’s radioactive half-life still seems to be on the order of a decade.
The ISOC also seems to be very much the sort of “secret police” and “death squad” detail that Thaksin unleashed when he made the part of the country I live in into a settle old scores, free-fire zone a few years ago. Although undoubtedly these troopers are more “professionally trained this time round”, that is cause for greater, not less alarm on my part.
Thaksin was “only” officially after some drug dealers. That’s not even a really serious crime when kept at “moderate” levels. The military and the police themselves engage in it during “normal” times.
But a conspiracy aimed at overthrowing the government, the army leadership and important institutions in the country is the kind of thing that really “justifies” going over the top.
It sounds as though they are going to bleed the nation of the “bad” element in order to return the nation to health and “purity”.
I hope this is just bluff talk, but it wasn’t bluff talk last time. And when they get the bit in their teeth organizations like the military don’t let up until they’ve so outraged and exhausted humanity that they simply cannot go on any longer.
Look at my country the United States of America. Two failed wars, millions dead, and a bankrupted nation later the charming man selling change we can believe in (he and Abhisit are twins, aren’t they?) is sitting atop the “gains” of one aggressive war and escalating the other while the Treasury burns.
Just because the pilots in the cabin of the US’ airline are bent on flying their plane into the ground doesn’t mean that Thailand has to follow.
What’s at stake from the belligerents’ side, really? A few more years of the “good” life before they have to accept the consequences of their long run of missteps no matter they want to or not. They’d sooner push down the pillars holding up the temple than accept the really rather meager changes that would allow everyone to muddle through.
That’s what I’m afraid is going to happen.
26 doctorJ // Mar 22, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Apart from poor-insighted Pornpimol,the Nation seems to take the exact role, played by Bangkok Post in 1976. I’m afraid John Francis Lee’s nightmare is going to be true in a short foreseeable future. That’s really scary.
Call me pessimistic, if you like.
27 John Francis Lee // Mar 22, 2009 at 5:26 pm
The PPT’s made available a good deal of a 1977 issue of the Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars describing the events of October 1976. The piece by Puey Ungphakorn is particularly poignant.
The possibility of horrific, choreographed violence leaves me speechless.
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