New Mandala

54 responses so far ↓

• 1 David Brown // Nov 16, 2009 at 9:11 pm

  thanks Nick, appreciate your efforts in getting to both

  great photos, see also redshirt photos at
  http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P8550004/P8550004.html

  and also your estimates of numbers, the photos make it obvious the police reported numbers are low, for both (why?)

• 2 WLH // Nov 16, 2009 at 9:12 pm

  Looks like the Yellows need Thaksin more than the Reds do! Not surprising given that he’s acting like an idiot lately.

  Or put another way: The Reds are evolving, the Yellows are not. In fact, the Yellows are by nature against evolution.

• 3 Further updated: PAD rallies « Political Prisoners in Thailand // Nov 17, 2009 at 12:32 am

  [...] 2: As usual, New Mandala commentator Nick Nostitz has a perspective and some interesting pictures of this rally and the PAD rally in Bangkok, [...]

• 4 fall // Nov 17, 2009 at 2:01 am

  Picture of King and Queen on a stage for political rally.
  Hmm…

• 5 Jojo // Nov 17, 2009 at 2:13 am

  Ha-roi baht, took khon sabai sabai! haha.

• 6 Tired // Nov 17, 2009 at 2:29 am

  I agree with you WLH, I just wish the reds would evolve past the need for Thaksin at all. I think he degrades their message, and slows their progress. It’s time for the reds to cut off the dead wood.

• 7 Omar Montenegro // Nov 17, 2009 at 2:47 am

  Thanks for your great report and amazing photographs!

• 8 Somsak Jeamteerasakul // Nov 17, 2009 at 9:12 am

  I watched the PAD rally most of its nearly 7 hours (from 15.45-22.30) on their ASTV. I got the impression that the atmosphere and the speeches were, perhaps, not as “firely” as one would expect. I mean, compare to last year, when they were trying to oust the government, they looked more ‘real’, more determined then, while this time around it felt somewhat ‘unreal’ to me. While before the rally, the PAD seemed to try to ‘wipe up’ the hatred of Thaksin for what he allegedly said about the monarchy, something along the line of the 6 Tula perhaps, it didn’t seem to me quite working. The atmosphere wasn’t quite full of hatred, tensed ‘loyalty to the King’, that kind of stuff. And the fact that the rally broke up a bit sooner than one would have expected perhaps supports this impression. Finally, the number of PAD ‘celebrities’ (famous people who supported their courses) seemed to show up less than they implied at news conference before the rally?

  Did I get the wrong impression here, Khun Nick?

  Also, your estimate of the PAD crowd around 35000, isn’t this a little too high? It didn’t seem that many to me.

• 9 Susie Wong // Nov 17, 2009 at 12:25 pm

  Most of local news estimate PAD gathering in the number of thousands less than 10,000. I think PAD is dead, no future, because majority of Thais are against PAD.

  According to the ThaiEnews report, all of the powerful Thai political organizations are against PAD. The influential national university political organization, the labor union, civil society, university students and people for democracy, joined hands against PAD rally. They condemned PAD rally as crazy nationalism using nation and monarchy slogan as the instrument to destroy political enemy, create conflicts with neighboring countries. They demand the parliament dissolution, constitutional reform, and building fair and justice in politics, society, economy, and support of welfare state.

  Furthermore, the minute Sonthi Limthongkul gave his speech, M79 was fired toward him! This reflects the military also against Sonthi and PAD.

  โดย ทีมข่าวไทยอีนิวส์
  15 พฤศจิกายน 2552

  องค์กรนัก ศึกษาทั่วประเทศ นำโดยสหพันธ์นิสิตนักศึกษาแห่งประเทศไทย องค์กรสหภาพแรงงาน องค์กรภาคประชาชน นิสิตนักศึกษาและประชาชนที่สนับสนุนประชาธิปไตยได้ร่วมกันออกแถลงการณ์ฉบับ หนึ่งคัดค้านการจัดชุมนุมของพันธมิตรฯในวันนี้ โดยชี้ว่าเป็นการชุมนุมของกลุ่มคลั่งชาติ ใช้สถาบันชาติและกษัตริย์เป็นเครื่องมือในการทำลายล้างทางการเมือง และสร้างความแตกแยกกับประเทศเพื่อนบ้าน รวมทั้งเรียกร้องให้ยุบสภา และแก้ไขรัฐธรรมนูญให้เป็นประชาธิปไตย รวมถึงการสร้างการเมือง-สังคม-เศรษฐกิจที่เป็นธรรม สนับสนุนรัฐสวัสดิการ

• 10 Nick Nostitz // Nov 17, 2009 at 1:35 pm

  “Somsak Jeamteerasakul”:

  It is always difficult to guess numbers. A lot of people stayed around the cars parked, and also many were mingling with the people in the market surrounding Sanam Luang. I did confirm this number also with knowledgeable people i trust.
  Of course, when compared to 6 Tula era, which i have only read about, (i was during that time in primary school in Germany ), the hatred could have been a lot more. Nevertheless, for me some some of what was said, especially by Gen. Preecha, was very strong.
  And yes, you are right, there were less prominent supporters than previous, especially when compared to the pre-coup PAD.

  An interesting observation i have made, and this has not been the first time, is that while Thaksin still seems to be their main enemy, the Red Shirts though seemed to have found some acceptance under many of the hardcore PAD members. Not that they like the Red Shirts in any way, or would not go to battle with them again, but compared to last year, many have accepted the fact that Red Shirts do have a political ideology, and are not just a rent-a-mob. When talking with some of the Nac Lop Srivichai, i have had some very reasonable discussions about the Red Shirts and the political situation in general.
  This somewhat changed attitude makes my life covering these events a lot easier as well. I hate to hide my views when i talk with people, and it was accepted without any animosity when i said that i do like the fact that simple people increasingly care about their country is governed, and that there are logical reasons why they choose to join the Red Shirts. Last year, such comments gave me a lot of grief.

  I guess the blast somewhat contributed to the earlier end of the rally. many people have left as soon as the blast occurred. The blast was heard even at the opposite side of Sanam Luang.

• 11 Anonymous // Nov 17, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  [...] yellow: the temperature rises again November 16, 2009 by Nick Nostitz ที่มา – New Mandala แปลและเรียบเรียง – แชพเตอร์ [...]

• 12 Frank G Anderson // Nov 17, 2009 at 8:04 pm

  Did I hear right that the guy who composed that famous candle song for Sondhi is now a Red Shirt? And was it not because of money?

• 13 What the Red Shirts where doing ............ - Page 2 - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum // Nov 17, 2009 at 9:07 pm

  [...] the blogworld …………… Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again November 16th, 2009 by Nick Nostitz asiapacific.anu.edu.au Nick goes for 50 to 60 thousand Reds [...]

• 14 StanG // Nov 17, 2009 at 11:51 pm

  “I just wish the reds would evolve past the need for Thaksin at all. I think he degrades their message, and slows their progress.”

  Or I could say I wish New Mandala folks evolve past the need for red shirts, as red shirts degrade their message, whatever it is.

  Calls for decoupling reds and Thaksin have been going for years but the ties are only getting stronger. From Nick’s report I gather they are working on creating emotional attachment to the brand now, apparently their political platform has lost its attraction.

  PAD’s resurrection on Cambodian issue isn’t going to last either.

• 15 michael // Nov 18, 2009 at 1:34 am

  Thanks, Nick, for another good article with splendid photos. There’s also a report on the Yellow rally in Prachatai.

  “Fierce PAD nationalism on stage” http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1495

  The details in Prachatai’s report indicate that the PAD leadership seem to be advocating violence, as well as a fanatical nationalism, and the demonization of Cambodian people. I hope that the low-key feeling that Ajarn Somsak picked up, & his statement that they broke up early, indicate they are getting tired of the irrational fanaticism of their leaders.

  Readers may also be interested in a PAD curiosity, read by Pipop Thongchai, entitled, ” The Thai People’s Declaration to the World ”
  http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9520000138041 (in English), which could be indicative of paranoid delusions.

• 16 Nick Nostitz // Nov 18, 2009 at 4:47 am

  “michael”:

  The Prachathai article is excellent. I saved it already to quote from at a later time.

• 17 Srithanonchai // Nov 18, 2009 at 4:37 pm

  Nick:

  Clearly, you were impressed by the “red” girls!

• 18 Nick Nostitz // Nov 18, 2009 at 7:23 pm

  “Srithanonchai”:

  Don’t you start as well – the wife gave me enough grief over those photos already!

• 19 Susie Wong // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:48 am

  I think the matter is much more serious than girls.

  Bangkok Post:
  Published: 18/11/2009 at 05:20 PM

  Cambodia has a taped conversation of Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya ordering the first secretary of the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh to get former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s flight plan for the Thai government, Puea Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan said on Wednesday.

  Mr Jatuporn said Cambodian authorities also had a tape of a conversation about the flight plan between the first secretary, Kamrob Palawatwichai, and Siwarak Chutiphong, the Thai engineer employed by Cambodia Air Traffic Services accused of spying for Thailand.

  Mr Siwarak was arrested on Wednesday and accused of stealing Thaksin’s flight plan. Mr Kamrob was expelled the following day.

• 20 Frank G Anderson // Nov 19, 2009 at 8:06 am

  If she is concerned about the photos, better not visit the Mall in Korat where I took some even racier at a car show!

• 21 Nobody // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:58 pm

  Susie. So can we then conclude the Cambodian authorities were spying on the Thai embassy if they seem to have a tape of them chatting. Although I do remember last time Jatuporn claimed to have a tape of something, and he does make that claim reasonably often, there were a few problems when the background noise was examined, and the whole issue seems long forgotten now.

• 22 Nganadeeleg // Nov 19, 2009 at 5:22 pm

  If Jatuporn represents the alternative government, then the situation truly is hopeless !

• 23 tum|bler // Nov 20, 2009 at 3:31 am

  The Thai engineer case will probably end up like the car bomb case. Thaksin supporters will insist it’s real, while detractors will say it’s staged, unless some concrete evidence emerges.

• 24 Iker Izquierdo // Nov 22, 2009 at 12:56 pm

  Hi Nick,

  this Iker Izquierdo, spanish historian. I came to Thailand for a couple of weeks and bought your book “Red vs. Yellow”. Congratulations you made a great job. Photographs are outstanding and the text is compelling, just cannot put it down. I’m trying to set up an online magazine in spanish about southeast and east asian affairs. One of the first works is a long article about Thailand’s last three years. Your book is of great value. I was wondering if we can have your permission to reproduce some of your photos.

  Thanks for your passion and dilligence in giving us these fantastic reports.

  Kind Regards,

  Iker Izquierdo.

• 25 Nick Nostitz // Nov 23, 2009 at 2:09 pm

  “Iker Izquierdo”:

  Thanks a lot.

  Please send an email to Nich or Andrew, who will forward then your email to me, and that way we can talk them about about this directly.

• 26 StanG // Nov 27, 2009 at 1:44 pm

  Saw this in paper Daily Xpress the other day:

  Dressed for war

  Apparently Nick missed on some interesting stuff, important enough to become a highlight on red tv.

  Was the ommission of war drums and a helicopter intentional, by any chance? Are there any unpublished pictures left where we can see it?

• 27 Nick Nostitz // Nov 27, 2009 at 4:01 pm

  “StanG”:

  I don’t think that i care for the insinuation that i may have “omitted” something “intentionally”.

  But to answer you – no, i have omitted nothing of any importance that i have seen while i was there – i left the concert soon after Thaksin appeared on a videolink. As i have written in the article – at midnight. I walked out of the venue of the concert to the parking lot a few minutes before 23.00. About half an hour before that i left the stage area to walk to the other side of the field so i could take photos of the crowd that has gathered.

  The Red Shirt leaders wore a multitude of fancy costumes for their songs. Looking at The Nation article – the costumes shown in the picture accompanying the article look to me like historical costumes one can see in any elephant show in Thailand, and do not seem to me the sort of dress one would use in a modern war, or that are effective during street battles. They look to me just like another fancy dress on a stage dominated by fancy costumes.

  This concert was mostly a feel-good event. I have asked people i trust who have remained there until the morning if the general atmosphere changed after i left, which they denied.

  Furthermore – I have never denied that there is a very violent element also in the Red Shirts. I have photographed this as well in the past (and i fear that i have to do so again in the future). But this day, at the concert, was no atmosphere of violence.

  I hold no monopoly on reporting on the Red Shirts, or the Yellow Shirts, or any other political event in Thailand. I report under my real name, with a press card issued by the Public Relations Department (background checks are done by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs before such a card is issued), and not under an alias, and am fully answerable for what i report here, or anywhere else. Intentionally misreporting such events would therefore earn me a lot of trouble – it would be a violation of professional ethics and also to the terms of my permit to stay and work here in Thailand.

  Writing such articles (and my book) does not only mean that i write what i have seen, but i also have to corroborate information with many trustworthy sources, to filter out the mountains of rumors and misinformation floating around in any such conflict situation, so i can be as factual as humanly possible.
  If you still distrust my articles – then i would suggest to do what i do – go there yourself and write your own stories, take your own photos, build your own network of trusted sources (which has taken me years), and see what you come up with, and if it is in contrast to what i have reported. Until then i would suggest to keep such impertinent insinuations to yourself.

• 28 StanG // Nov 27, 2009 at 6:09 pm

  Nick, Nation described them as “ancient war costumes”, and that’s exactly what they look like, and all three of them were clutching swords, and there’s red “Battle cries” heading for one of the paragraphs that also describes Arisman arriving in a mock-up helicopter, dressed as a commando.

  It came to Nation’s attention only when the video was replayed on red shirts’ TV channel. Nation said “music videos with fighting theme” are popular with red TV producers.

  From your comment I understand those war costumes didn’t seem noticeable to you, probably because there are from a totally different era. I’ve seen people making fuss about PAD playing “traitor” song from the 70s, however.

  Regardless of whether you’ve noticed it or not, Nation’s addition is useful to your coverage. As a person who has actually been there – are they overplaying it? How many “fighting theme” songs were actually there?

  I also find an admission that this fund raiser collected only 10 million instead of projected 18 interesting, in light of latest cancellation of red rallies in Bangkok.

• 29 Nick Nostitz // Nov 27, 2009 at 9:12 pm

  “StanG”:

  As i said, i have not noticed the “ancient war costumes” as anything other than what is seen in any elephant show for tourists, and i left before the show with the helicopter. But judging from the hours i have been there, and from what my sources told me of the atmosphere after i have left – yes, The Nation completely overplayed this. Which would not have been the first time that The Nation has shown clear bias in their reporting (one of the main reasons why i began writing here was that local newspaper articles rarely reflected what i have seen on the ground). That has ranged from selective reporting to being very liberal with numbers up to reporting rumors as facts.

  I do take reporting by The Nation with a grain of salt. Far too many times i have experienced events completely different from that paper.

  Most of the songs at the Red Shirt concert i have heard were folksy love songs, fighting songs about democracy (which indeed are popular with Red Shirts), “missing Thaksin” songs, etc. The atmosphere was a feel-good atmosphere, with very little hard politics.

  I would suggest to reading the excellent article published on Prachatai – “fierce nationalism on the PAD stage” – to get an idea how the general atmosphere on the PAD stage was. This article i can fully support as it matches exactly what i have heard.

  I believe that you overstate the importance of the money collected at fundraisers in terms how or why the rally was canceled. The rally was indeed very controversial for red shirts as well, partly due to the timing and partly due to their experience from Songkran, in which they were crushed.

  But do not be mistaken – the Red Shirts are a mass movement – they constantly have fundraisers in rural areas, where locals donate money for all sorts of Red Shirt activities, ranging from improving their radio stations, to their democracy schools, to filling their war chests for protests and transport to large protests in Bangkok.

  If you doubt my reports, I can only again suggest attending the events in person in future, if you want to get a clear picture.

• 30 Ralph Kramden // Nov 27, 2009 at 11:19 pm

  StanG needs to watch a few more Thai movies and TV to get a feel for what the red shirts were doing.

• 31 StanG // Nov 28, 2009 at 12:01 pm

  Nick,

  a) Nation decided to publish this photo and a story only after they’ve seen war theme videos replayed on red TV, weeks later. Apparently they thought if it seems important enough to red TV producers, it’s important enough to publish it.

  b) You can swear your impartiality all you want, I will judge it on the basis of your actual stories. Right now, for example, you invoked “but yellows were far worse” defense argument. “Objection, Your Honor – relevance?” I’m not trying red vs yellow case, btw, but that’s how you see the world, I suspect.

  c) Comparing mood at a fundraising concert with a political rally in Bangkok doesn’t seem fair in the first place. The only thing that unites them is timing, so from that perspective you are right – reds were dancing and yellows were marching on Cambodia, but with a disclaimer – on that particular day.

  Ralph, your proposal to watch more red TV, movies, talk to people etc. smacks of an effort to convert me into some religious sect. That’s what they always say – come see for yourself, get to know it from the inside. I don’t particularly care, I just saw an interesting photo of red leaders dressed as warriors and clutching swords.

• 32 Nick Nostitz // Nov 28, 2009 at 2:26 pm

  “StanG”:

  a) What The Nation decides to do is up to The Nation. The Nation also decided to publish straight after the concert nothing more on their website than one single photo, taken in daytime, when most people had’t arrived yet. No story, no report, nothing. And now they decide 11 days after the concert to publish a story which selectively picks out two single songs of dozens or more that were sung that night, based on something they have seen on television.
  Well, up to The Nation, and up to you if you believe that this is useful information and in-depth reporting…

  b) up to you

  c) my report is titled: Saturday Yellow, Sunday Red…
  I reported what i saw on those two days – nothing more, nothing less: part of an ongoing series of reports from the ground perspective of the conflict. If you have seen these two rallies differently, than please be free to write what you have seen there on the ground. I am sure that New Mandala would be glad to publish your photos and text from the rallies as a contrast to mine. This only gives a wider choice for people interested in Thai politics to form their own opinions from.

• 33 Steve // Nov 28, 2009 at 3:58 pm

  “StanG”

  “Ralph, your proposal to watch more red TV, movies, talk to people etc. smacks of an effort to convert me into some religious sect. That’s what they always say – come see for yourself, get to know it from the inside”

  It’s also what car salesmen and property agents say – but citing that wouldn’t make you look half as paranoid…… and Ralph didn’t say “watch more red TV”. Seems you “don’t particularly care” about quite a lot when forming/promoting your opinions – not just declining to look at available evidence and context yourself but how you then misrepresent what others say about that. Nick can answer for himself – but there is no ” ‘but yellows were far worse’ defense argument “ in what he said; he was plainly talking about accuracy of reporting – an issue that you yourself raised in an earlier insinuation.

• 34 Ralph Kramden // Nov 28, 2009 at 10:13 pm

  That was the point StanG. If you were more aware of the context of historical drama, perhaps you’d be less likely to jump to conclusions. Perhaps not.

• 35 Somsak Jeamteerasakul // Nov 29, 2009 at 1:32 pm

  I saw StanG’s first comment a few days back and thought that Nick’s response would be the end of the matter. To my surprise, it isn’t.

  Khun StanG,

  anyone who could write, as you did, that

  “Nation described them as “ancient war costumes”, and that’s exactly what they look like, and all three of them were clutching swords”

  … means that that person knows absolutely nothing about everyday way of life here.

  I strongly suggest you watch some “Li-ke” – a traditional form of Thai musical plays, in which most of the actors wore “ancient war costumes” and “clutching swords” most of the time. That’s how normal, ordinary Thai people think when they see people in “ancient war costumes”, “clutching swards” and singing songs, all at the same time, in other words, they would think of “Li-ke”, NOT of the actual war!

  Of course, The Nation people aren’t really just “normal, ordinary Thai people”, they’re a bunch of political activists, dressed up as “journalists” who’re always on the look out for any sign or opportunity whether real or imaginary, that would allow them to write anti-Thaksin, anti-Red Shirts ‘reports’.

• 36 StanG // Nov 29, 2009 at 1:58 pm

  Photos of Jatuporn, Nattawut and Veera carrying swords and, perhaps, even doing some war dance, would have been far more interesting than some dudes holding microphones.

  Pardon me for asking why they were missing from Nick’s report. I can think of two reasons – he simply missed this part, or he decided to exclude them intentionally. He says he didn’t see it, that’s all. Pity, but that’s life.

  Reds have been in the public light for a couple of years now, if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. If they want to correct it, it’s not my job either. If people expect me to dedicate more time and effort to learning the context and the details – get in line, there’s a long list of misunderstood cults that got into similar situation first.

• 37 Srithanonchai // Nov 29, 2009 at 4:23 pm

  Since when is the obstinate celebration of ignorance a culturally valued undertaking?

• 38 BKK lawyer // Nov 29, 2009 at 5:41 pm

  StanG: Your best comment yet!

  “If people expect me to dedicate more time and effort to learning the context and the details – get in line”

• 39 Nick Nostitz // Nov 29, 2009 at 6:58 pm

  “StanG”:

  Sorry, but i don’t do “far more interesting” – i do fair and realistic reporting from the ground perspective.

  If you don’t like the fact that the concert was a feel good event with very little politics, than please complain to the Red Shirt leadership. Tell them that they should put up a more aggressive face the next time, so you can have your preconceived stereotypes confirmed.

  I am the wrong address for your gripes.

  That should hopefully conclude this discussion. Thank you.

• 40 Somsak Jeamteerasakul // Nov 29, 2009 at 7:09 pm

  “if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. ”

  Actually, I think it is.

  In this case it’s your fault to simply believe what The Nation say without reasonable judgment of your own. Or in your case, perhaps you’d believe that anyway without the help of The Nation. But it’s still your fault nonetheless. Because the wrong impression is NOT ‘created’ by the performers, but by the ‘reporters’ and yourself, the on-looker.

  Suppose I stage a skit to protest the hanging of some activists and you look at its photo and say I was hanging effigy of the Crown Prince, even though there’s noting whatsoever to indicate that’s the case, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. If you look at the Like-like performance (with “swards” and singing!) and say “this is war-mongering!”, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. A person’s stupidity is that person’s own fault.

• 41 StanG // Nov 30, 2009 at 2:37 pm

  Somsak, the “wrong” impression I was referring to is that of the red movement overall, and it’s not only the Nation that allegedly distorts their image. And it’s always the same advice: “Read some more, learn some more, you will sure change your opinion.”

  Nick, if you had seen Jatuporn and Nattawut doing a likae performance with swords and stuff, would you find it worth reporting? If you’d leave it out – why? In your first reply you labeled the mere suggestion as “insinuation”, now you seem to say you don’t find it interesting enough.

  I’ve never challenged your assessment of that concert mood, btw.

• 42 Srithanonchai // Nov 30, 2009 at 4:39 pm

  Now waiting for the blockage of the ECT building by the PAD, and, of course, the blockage of Government House and Suvarnaphumi Airports. This two-year sentence will have to be translated into 193 days of blockage for the PAD leaders…

  6 protest leaders jailed for besieging Nation Group in 2006

  The South Bangkok Criminal Court Monday jailed six leaders of the Assembly of the Poor and Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship for leading some 1,300 protesters to besiege the head office of the Nation Multimedia Group in 2006.

  The court found the six guilty of using force to assault and force other to comply to their wish.

  The six are Khamta Kaenboonchan, Attharit Singlor, Chupong Thithuan, Thanawit Palakawong, Shinawat Haboon, and Samrerng Adisa.

  The court initially sentenced them to three years imprisonment and a fine of Bt180.

  But the court commuted the jail term to 2 years on ground that they gave testimony deemed useful for the trial.

  The Nation 30 Nov. 2009

• 43 BKK lawyer // Dec 1, 2009 at 6:00 am

  StanG:

  I am getting tired of your attacks on Nick Nostitz, whose impartiality and credibility in his many months of reporting and photographing events have not been challenged by anyone until you came along. And it’s now obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  Nick did not say or suggest that he didn’t report on those performances because they were not “interesting enough”, as you inferred (per your comment 41). When he said (comment 39) he “do[es]n’t do ‘far more interesting,’” I took that to mean that he doesn’t base his reporting on what’s “interesting,” but rather he reports what he sees.

  Why don’t you leave this issue alone? Your foot is getting stuffed farther into your throat every time you add a new comment.

• 44 StanG // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:12 am

  I’ll leave it to Nick to clarify how exactly he would have found Jatuporn, Nattawut and Veera dancing with swords – “interesting”, “worth reporting”, or not falling into “fair and realistic” category, or whatever.

  The whole argument could have been ended at comment 27 if Nick simply said in the beginning “Sorry, mate, didn’t see it, would have been a great shot” instead of defending his impartiality and credentials and pointing fingers at yellows and referencing Prachatai and what not.

  I’m sure Nick has hundreds of pictures from that concert that were not posted here for one reason or another. If he indeed has photos of red leaders doing a war dance, it’s a fair question why they weren’t included. Please don’t say “they don’t fit in the overall mood I was trying to portray”.

• 45 Steve // Dec 1, 2009 at 3:37 pm

  “Was the ommission of war drums and a helicopter intentional, by any chance?”. StanG makes this insinuation (#26) at a journalist – and then expects (#44) that journalist to not defend his impartiality? Bizarre……

  I do find it educational to see the StanG’s of this world doing their foot-in-mouth acrobatics – but only up to a point. I hope New Mandala will decide that there has been enough of his “Repetitive ranting, unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse” here for this particular lesson to be considered learned.

  Certainly, Nick Nostitz has said all he needs to say in response to the repeated insinuations. That StanG seems set on embarrassing himself yet further is not Nick’s problem – nor is it enlightening to see this spectacle continue ad nauseam.

• 46 Frank G Anderson // Dec 1, 2009 at 5:11 pm

  Yes, education but only to a point, and a very quickly arrived one at that!
  Less said from now on in that vein no matter what the subject the better. Innuendo and personal slights have little right to be in a mature blog.

• 47 StanG // Dec 2, 2009 at 5:55 pm

  According to the Nation the song itself was called “Poo Chana Sib Thit” (“Victor of the Ten Directions”). I don’t know if there’s any special meaning in the lyrics that made three red leaders choose it for their dance number. The other song they apparently sang themselves was “Lan Klong Rob” (“War Drums”).

• 48 Frank G Anderson // Dec 2, 2009 at 8:13 pm

  The wikithai background on the historical novel, Victor of Ten Directions, can be found on the website using ผู้ชนะสิบทิศ as search phrase.

• 49 Chris Beale // Dec 3, 2009 at 3:40 am

  There’s also a lovely song simply called “Poo Chana” by Sek Loso. I’m sure many Thais think the country would be a lot better off with people singing the Sek Loso song, than the anathema of confrontational anthems, sung by both Red and Yellow Shirts.

• 50 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Dec 3, 2009 at 8:15 am

  re: StanG

  I’m guessing that this is the song you’re talking about?

• 51 Steve // Dec 3, 2009 at 3:07 pm

  With all due respect, ongoing attempts to find significance in popular songs sung on a stage (songs that also feature in light entertainment TV shows here) is starting to look very silly not to say rather desperate. Time to play the national anthem game?

  Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood.
  Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais.
  It has long maintained its sovereignty,
  Because the Thais have always been united.
  The Thai people are peace-loving,
  But they are no cowards at war.
  They shall allow no one to rob them of their independence,
  Nor shall they suffer tyranny.
  All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood
  For the nation’s safety, freedom and progress.

  http://www.nationalanthems.info/th%27.htm

• 52 StanG // Dec 3, 2009 at 3:59 pm

  I guess that’s the song. Interestingly it’s actually about Burmese king but he is admired in Thailand without any prejudice anyway.

  While the King Bayinnaung was a supreme hero in the story, in the song itself he laments about being lonely upon his return, everything is beautiful, the stars, the river, but he can’t see his wives he loves so much.

  I don’t know who sang his part at the Red concert, Jatuporn or Nattawut, and why they needed swords – guys in the AF clip managed without them or war costumes (but AF’s was not the original version).

  I guess red leaders were sensible enough not to play some more symbolic roles like Hanuman.

• 53 Chris Beale // Dec 4, 2009 at 12:51 am

  Steve – yes : it’s a lovely national anthem, whenever I hear it I think how happy it sounds.
  But there are three problems with this so-called “national” anthem :
  1) there is no mention of Lao people, numbering at least 16 million, and “Thailand’s” largest ethnic group – almost a nation in themselves.
  2) this anthem makes no reference to Siam – which would include “Thailand’s” Lao majority.
  3) the name “Thailand” was constructed by pro-Japanese military fascists.
  Siam is the proper name for this widespread land.

• 54 StanG // Jan 31, 2010 at 3:01 pm

  I think these pictures were taken from the same Khao Yai concert, there are war drums, Jaturporn, Nattawut and Veera dressed as ancient warriors and more.

  Another set of pictures

  Currently featured on the cover of Truth Today magazine, must be important.

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