After several delays, and months of hype, the big Red Shirt protest was finally announced for mid-March 2010. In the run up, the rumor mill ran wild again, especially stirred by the government which gave out conflicting statements by the hour, about violence, and possible intelligence of bomb and grenade attacks, which were then denied by other quarters of the same government. Red Shirts talked about the need for nonviolence in their protests, yet some leaders stirred the journalistic community by mentioning the possibility of a civil war. I stocked up on petrol following the rumours that the government might order petrol stations in Bangkok to be closed. There were rumors of vehicles with provincial licenses being barred from Bangkok, and that taxis were not allowed on the streets during the duration of the protests. The use of the Internal Security Act (ISA) was first discounted, but then enacted from midnight of 11 March 2010 onwards.
As I got news of Army re-enforcements sent to Bangkok the night the ISA began, I went out to Pahon Yothin Road near Laksi, a main military area of Bangkok with many barracks of the armed forces lining the street. Soon after I left home I got another call that the re-enforcements had already trickled in to Bangkok throughout the day in a very low key way, in vans and private cars, not to stir the population through larger scale troop movements. Instead I spent some time at a combined police-army roadblock. Motorcycles and cars were randomly pulled out and searched. No weapons were found. Only one car with a fake license plate was stopped.
[Please click on the images for larger versions]
The following morning rumours were rife that the government planned to close down the Red Shirt’s TV station: “People Channel”. About 1000 agitated Red Shirts gathered at the station on the 5th floor of Big C Lad Prao – the headquarters of the Red Shirt movement. Staff began to move equipment to another location. The government deliberated whether they could get a court order for a closure of the TV station, but soon news came that Satit Wongnongtoey announced in Parliament that the station will definitely not be closed. The Red Shirts calmed down. Upstairs, on the 6th floor, long lines of people waited to be registered as Red Shirts. A concert in a convention hall began at 2 pm.
Officially the protest began on 12 March, at 12 minutes past 12, at 5 locations simultaneously – the main event at the Democracy Monument at Laksi, at Din Daeng, at Bang Na, at Wong Wien Yai in Thonburi and at Lumphini Park. I went to Laksi, where Veera Musikapong and Dr. Weng Tojirakan took part in a Brahmanistic opening ceremony. About 2000 to 3000 protesters turned up. Soon they moved to protest in front of the nearby 11th Infantry Regiment. I left, and went to the Din Daeng event. It was equally lackluster – a few hundred Red Shirts sat mostly in the shadows of some trees escaping the mind numbing heat. I decided to follow the “UDD 99” – the Bangsue district Red Shirt sub-organisation, who planned to distribute flyers in some Sois of their district to encourage people to join the protest.
Three pick-up trucks, a loudspeaker and several Red Shirts walked and handed out flyers through the Sois. I somehow expected animosity directed against them, but most people knew the Red Shirts well, took the flyers, and cheered them on. It was only from two houses that people shouted at them to go away and to stop creating trouble. Nothing happened. The Red Shirts ignored the shouts. It was explained by people in the Soi that these two houses were known People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters.
The first point of danger was thought to be at the large roadblock at Wang Noi in Ayutthaya, where most central and northeastern Red Shirts had to come through on their trek to Bangkok on 13 March. The day before Red Shirts from all over the country gathered in several meeting points near Bangkok – Isaarn Red Shirts in Khorat, northerners in Nakhorn Sawan. I went to Wang Noi on my motorcycle to follow the Red Shirt caravan to Bangkok. An endless column of Red Shirts was on the road – pick-up trucks, lorries, songtaeows, vans, busses, even some on motorcycle. The checkpoint itself was very calm, both police officers and soldiers were relaxed, Red Shirts in the cars held their Thai IDs up, and were waved through.
Many local Red Shirts gathered in support, handing out water and food. I went to the next check point in Bang Pa-In, where the northern group joined the caravan to Bangkok. Also there hundreds of Red Shirts cheered the caravan. Every single pedestrian bridge over the multilane highway up to Bangkok had Red Shirt supporters cheering the passing Red Shirts. All along the side of the highway Red Shirts were lined up in support. There were huge traffic jams where larger groups of Red Shirts greeted the caravan, but generally there were fewer jams than I expected. The closer to Bangkok the more ecstatic the atmosphere became. From Rangsit onwards the crowd greeting the Red Shirts became quite enormous. From Samliem Din Daeng up to Victory Monument one single mass of people lined the street.
In the evening a huge crowd gathered at the main rally site, from Sanam Luang up Rajadamnern, at the main stage at Pan Fa Bridge, and up to Royal Plaza. Most cars parked at Sanam Luang and at Royal Plaza. On my way home I went through the adjacent district of Nang Loern, a yellow bastion, and possible conflict point. Everything was quite though – troops of soldiers were placed at Sois and intersections, and one local Red Shirt said that the PAD supporters of Nang Loern will stay quite as long as the situation does not disintegrate like in April 2009.
The following day, 14 March, the day of the big gathering, more Red Shirts arrived. In a media stunt a few boats of Red Shirts arrived from Ayutthaya. At Sanam Luang maybe 500 Red Shirt monks camped out, and went on a short march to the main stage. Several of the monks blessed protesters with sacred water, sprinkled and splashed the protesters with short grass brooms, attendants holding the bowls with the sacred water.
My wife had difficulties buying food – most vendors of our local fresh market closed their shops and went to the rally. That stayed the same for the following days. Only a few shops in the market were open – the shops owned by vendors known to be supporting the PAD.
In the evening hours the rally began to fill up. The taxi community radio station built a huge transmitting pole in the area behind the stage. When I saw a man working on top of the pole I felt nauseous. At sunset I climbed a loudspeaker tower to take photos of the crowd. Dangling at a height of about ten meters the sight was incredible – Red Shirts as far as one could see.
Already the sickening numbers game was already in full swing. Widely differing numbers were cited – some cited 50,000, some 80,000, Red Shirt leaders differed from 300,000 to 600,000. I believe that the most realistic number was around 150,000. Whatever the final number may have been – this was the biggest gathering of protesters I have seen in the past 5 years of political turmoil in Bangkok. The crowd dwarfed any previous protest. And furthermore – this was the biggest upcountry group of protesters ever in Bangkok, and it was mixed together with urban Thais as well. Whatever argument may be cited – that the Red Shirts may have failed to move their announced one million people, and have therefore not been successful, it should be considered that no protest group of the last 5 years managed to bring such a crowd on to the streets.
Also later speculation that dwindling numbers may have indicated protest fatigue ignored the usual mechanics of these protests in Thailand. 
As a comparison – the numbers during the PAD Government House occupation were most of the time only around 2000 protesters, and only bigger events drew larger crowds. However, truly large numbers never attended their protests, as they did in pre coup days, topping a few times at 80,000. At the clashes on October 7, 2008, only about 8000 PAD protesters were present. The day time number of the Red Shirt protests circled around 15,000 people, more in the evening, with about 20,000 to 40,000.
On my way home I went through Nang Loern again. Soldiers from the 11th Infantry Regiment stationed there said that so far no incident happened. I again talked with another Nang Loern resident who was a Red Shirt. He talked about the unease in the district, and how people avoided political topics so they won’t argue with their neighbors.
On 15 March 2010 the Red Shirts announced a march to the 11th Infantry Regiment, where Prime Minister Abhisit Vejajiva was holed up, and from where the government operated. In the early morning hours the parking site at Royal Plaza already resembled a large rural village – protesters prepared sticky rice and somtam. Wafts of fermented fish odor passed through the air, mixed with the smoke from fires. The protest caravan began forming.
When the caravan started on their way, there were no displays of weaponry by guards. The atmosphere was festive. Again, the sides of the streets and the pedestrian bridges were lined with wildly cheering supporters. On Rama VI Road at the Ramathibodi Hospital several doctors, staff and nurses came out and screamed support for the protesters.
All along Victory Monument and Pahol Yothin Road the same spectacle happened. Under sky train stations the sounds of “Abhisit – Awk Pai!” (Abhisit – Get Out!) echoed into a huge sound. The beating of the large drum on the back of the car of the “Naclop Pra Ong Dam” (Warriors of the Black Prince) – a guard unit based in Pitsanulok – and their rousing music made hairs stand up. Many thousands of Red Shirts awaited the main caravan already in front of the 11th Infantry Regiment.
But when the main caravan arrived the air went suddenly out of the protest. Was it the heat, or the lack of water and food, or the comedown after the great march when nothing much happened, or was it the clever responses through loudspeakers by the psychological warfare team of the military? Boredom took over. A few Red Shirt guards got agitated when they mistook the cameras from journalists on the upper floors of a government building for snipers, and demanded entry, scaring many female journalists stationed there. The situation was soon defused though. Not long after, at 2 pm the Red Shirts went back to their main site at Pan Fa Bridge.

During the time of the protest, at 1 pm the 1st Infantry Regiment was attacked with 6 M79 Grenades, two of which failed to explode. Two soldiers were reported injured. This was a highly unusual attack as it happened in the daytime.
After a rest at home I went back to the rally site at night, just in time to take photos of Thanpuying Viraya Chavakul, a palace insider, who had entered the Red Shirt stage and held a speech there. Behind the stage, she sat with Arisaman Pongruangrong, Pongthep Thepkanjana, who is Thaksin’s spokesman, and Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, who has since the Songkran clashes in April 2009 kept a low profile. Later also came Jatuporn Prompan, Nattawut Saikua and Veera Musikapong. The Thanpuying handed tasty sandwiches to protest leaders and journalists.
That night, at 4 am, another grenade was launched, and landed at a house near the residence of the Chairman of the Supreme Court.
The next day, 16 March, the Red Shirts upped the level of the protest as the Abhisit government made no signs of dissolving parliament and calling new elections. Their plan was to organize a blood donation drive, and to spill the donated blood in front of Government House, the Democrat Party headquarters, and in front of Prime Minster Abhisit Vejajiva’s House. Dr. Weng Tojirakan explained that the blood is a symbol for the willingness of the people to give their blood for democracy, and for the blood already spilled by the people. Over the day, long queues of protesters lined up in front of the three tents in which nurses and doctors took their blood in sterile injection needles. The blood was collected in gallons and canisters, which quickly filled up.
At 3 pm the Red Shirts held a combined press conference with the National Human Rights Commission in the Royal Princess Hotel – close to the protest site – following their meeting with Veera Musikapong and other Red Shirt leaders. The Red Shirts asked the NHRC to observe the protests and act as an intermediary with the government as the government side was not willing to listen, and that communications with the government has been insufficient. The Red Shirts promised not to block entrance to government buildings, and allow access by all.
Soon the Red Shirts proceeded to Government House, to splash the collected blood there. A large mass of protesters gathered, and hundreds of assorted journalists were fighting over pictures. Red Shirt protesters with the gallons of blood on their heads fought their way through.
Some journalists got in through the small gate of the erected fence in front of Government House, but when the pressure from journalists became too much, the authorities closed the gate. I could not get in. It was altogether a rather ugly scene, mostly the fault of us journalists.
The next stop was the nearby Democrat Party headquarters. I went straightaway, so I could get pictures this time. The Red Shirts arrived by sunset. And with them the pack of journalists. Originally a space on the street in front of the building had been reserved for the Red Shirts, which was agreed upon by Red Shirt leaders and Police. I positioned myself. The Red Shirt leaders and the protesters carrying the blood, the Brahmin priest performing the curse, and other journalists arrived. Initially it was all in order, but suddenly there was a huge surge of pressure by journalists. This initiated a situation that made me extremely angry, disgusted and utterly embarrassed to be a journalist. The pack of journalists, many of them “fly by night” chancers and other never seen characters without any proper press credentials, did not listen to the pleading police officers and protest leaders to step back, but pressed even more. I escaped over a fence separating the street and the building, helped by a few police officers. But it didn’t stop – journalists kept pushing, managing to push the police lines away and forced the Red Shirts directly in front of the entrance of the building. When some sort of resemblance of order was restored, the Brahmin priest commenced with his cursing ritual, of which I managed to take images, before the journalists began pushing again. Of the following I didn’t take images any more – all these images showing heavy tensions and emotions were created by journalists, and not a natural scene that we photographed. I took a few images again of the blood spillage, and waited until Red Shirts and the pack of my colleagues went their way.
Two distraught officials of the Democrat Party, who had pleaded with the protesters not to spill the blood at their entrance during the melee, stood with a bowl of sacred water and waited until the scene was clear. When I asked them if that is “Naam Mon” (sacred water), they answered evadingly that this were just normal water to clean the mess. They were quite embarrassed when I pointed out that bits of wax from candles usually do not float in normal water. I apologised though for the mess created by us journalists. Soon they proceeded to spill the bowl of sacred water at the edge of the blood. The blood was then professionally cleaned, and I found a hose to wash my feet which were covered in blood.
Over the following days I spoke several times with Sakrapee Promchart — the Brahmin priest who performed the cursing ceremony, and who has been with the Red Shirt movement since its beginning. It was quite difficult as this was a topic which soon reached the limits of my language abilities.
The “saab cheng”(curse) he used is the strongest possible curse and will last for more than 100 years. There is no possible counter ceremony, and could only be lifted by the one performing the curse. Also the spilling of sacred water by the Democrat Party officials was of no use, he said, but shows that they were aware of the power of this curse. Neither was the more elaborate ceremony led by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban the following day of any use. The curse itself is of Thai Brahmanistic origin, not of Indian origin. Also during the reign of King Naresuan in the Ayutthaya period blood ceremonies to clean Chao Mae Toranee (the goddess of the earth) were performed. It is a highly unusual “Khun Sai” (Black Magic) ceremony, and only rarely performed by Brahmins. The last time this particular curse was performed was during the foundation of a prison in the district of Ban Pranang, Nakhorn Sri Thammarat province, about 100 hundred years ago. Even though such a curse has bad effects on the one performing it he still accepted those as he felt this curse was for the good of the land, as it was against those he considered bad people – the government. He also mentioned that a further reason for this particular curse was that the Democrat Party used Chao Mae Toranee in their party symbol, the goddess he prays to as well. He also said that spilling blood in this way would help prevent bloodshed. This point was also mentioned by a Red Shirt villager from Isaarn I talked with.
The day after the ceremony the priest was behind the stage, and very angry over media reports of Phra Ratchakru Wamadhepmuni, head of the royal Brahmin priests, who denounced his Brahmin heritage by stating that his father was removed from his position due to misbehavior. Sakrapee Promchart countered that his father, still alive and 100 years old, retired due to old age, and that Phra Ratchakru Wamadhepmuni was too young at the time. He also said that due to his ancestry and education he is a Brahmin priest.
The following day, 17 March, a large rally of Red Shirts went to Prime Minister Abhsisit Vejjajiva’s residence in Sukhumvit Soi 33, to spill blood there as well. A welcome rain shower broke the almost unbearable heat of the previous days. I decided not to take any photos as the disgusting scene of photographers and cameramen pushing each other, protesters and police officers out of the way repeated itself again. As the Brahmin priest did not come along, I thought it was rather pointless for me to photograph what amounted to a tense scene created mostly by journalists. A few Red Shirts threw bags of blood into Abhisit’s house, but were stopped by Red Shirt Guards. Also Nattawut Saikua asked them to stop through the loudspeakers of the mobile stage.
On their way out a group of street sweepers cleaned up after the Red Shirts, at the same time cheering them on. One of them said: “It’s in my heart!”.
The Red Shirt caravan then went along Sukhumvit Road, and made a stop at the US embassy, where they handed a letter over asking for clarification over the issue of claims by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban that the government was warned by US intelligence that there were actions of sabotage planned. The apparent source of this information was from tapping the phone conversations of Thaksin Shinawatra.
Again, all along the protest route there were supporters on the streets, sky train stations and pedestrian overpasses.
In the evening Red Shirt leaders on the stage denounced Sae Daeng, and also the Daeng Sayam group (Red Siam), and announced that those two factions are not part of their “Daeng Tang Pandin” (Red in the Land) movement. One of the Red Shirt leaders said that they had to make the separation official as Sae Daeng was an uncontrollable factor, and that Siam Daeng’s more radical ideological background was not compatible with the Red in the Land movement. A leader of one of Daeng Sayam’s allied groups was calm about it when I asked him, he said that they were anyhow separate groups, and things are just clearer now. Also Sae Daeng was the same evening present at the tent of his small political party, signing T-Shirts of protesters as usual. He said that “Pi Thaksin” had asked him to take care of the security of the Red Shirt protesters, and that the three leaders Veera, Nattawut and Jatuporn had no authority over him anyhow. He said they would not know anything about tactics and strategy, and that he, as a soldier, knows how to defend the Red Shirts.
There were many rumors of supposed splits in the Red in the Land leadership floating around. On the one side the “Politicians’ Group”, comprised of Veera, Nattawut and Jatuporn, and on the other the “Hardcore Group” led by Arisaman, Rambo Isaarn and Kwanchai Paipanna, who preferred a more radical course of action. When I asked about this, I was told that there are different views on strategy, that this is only natural and nothing new, but that they all discuss issues and obey the results of the votes in their central leadership council.
On 18 March I finally had the time to visit some villagers at Royal Plaza and chat with them. There were not as many cars parked there as before, some of the villagers went home to take a rest. The Red Shirts have begun to work out a rotation system so that protesters could go home for a while. I found the atmosphere still very upbeat, the protesters built something resembling a little village with kitchens and hammocks stretched out. There were showers on the sides of the plaza. Some villagers from Chiangmai and Mukdahan camped together, and shared a kitchen. They just met at the rally, and decided that they enjoy each other’s company. Bangkok based Red Shirt supporters donated fresh food and toiletries, and rice they have brought with them from home.
I asked a few Udon villagers about yesterday’s announcements from the stages about the split from Sae Daeng and Daeng Sayam. They said that they understood the separation from Sae Daeng because they do not like violence. About Daeng Sayam they said that many people may not be yet ready to accept their more radical philosophies, but they themselves liked Surachai Sae Dan and Jakrapop Penkair very much. They said that they do not just follow what is said on the main stage, they listen to all, discuss, and make up their own minds. We talked about how they felt about protesting in Bangkok they said that they were surprised how well they were received by Bangkokians: “Before we thought Bangkok people are all Yellow, and only us upcountry folks are Red. Now we can see that we are just the same.”
19 March was another quiet day. I went briefly to the protest area. Just when I arrived, a Military Police corporal was interrogated by Nattawut Saikua behind the stage in front of the media. A gun and three magazines of ammo he was caught with were displayed. The officer walked into the protest area, was pointed out by protesters, ran away, was caught by guards, and brought behind the stage. He said that his girlfriend is a Red Shirt, and he just wanted to give her an amulet chain. He was led away by police.
It was a regular feature that people with arms were caught by guards; the previous day a drunken man with a metal pick hidden in a bamboo pole was caught at the stage area, he said that he doesn’t like both Red and Yellow Shirts. A conscripted soldier, who went AWOL from his command, was arrested with an air gun. All were handed over to police.
20 March was the big day of the Red Shirt mobile rally throughout Bangkok. According to my sources (who stood on a bridge and counted) 7,000 cars and almost 30,000 motorcycles took part, per car a medium count of ten people, and most of the motorcycles were carrying two passengers. Altogether about 120,000 people took part in the caravan. In addition to this there were the masses of residents cheering the caravan on the street. The protest was gigantic. The lead car was the car of the “Naclop Pra Ong Dam”, blasting wild music, followed by their pickup truck carrying the huge drum. When the head of the column was already at Lard Prao Road the tail was still at Pan Fa Bridge. I followed with my motorcycle. Soon I did not know anymore if I was closer to the head or the tail. The streets were lined with supporters, many wearing red, others grabbing anything red and waving at the Red Shirts, some even put red plastic bags up.
First the route went along Petchaburi Road, large crowds of supporters were at Pantip Plaza and towards the Pratunam intersection.
Then the route went left into Ratchada, with, once again, large groups of supporters. At Lard Prao Road at almost every Soi there were large groups of supporters, between 100 and 500 people, who gave water and food to the Red Shirts. At Bangkapi huge groups assembled, and also all along Ram Intra and Klong Tan. Going into Rama IV Road there were fewer people, but still a presence of supporters. At Klong Toey Market about 500 supporters cheered the Red Shirts. From there I took a short cut to Silom over Rama III and Narathiwat Road. A few hundred Red Shirt motorcycles took the same route. Even though this was not part of the official route – people stood on the sides and cheered the Red Shirts. At Silom – Rama IV intersection I awaited at the head of the Red Shirt column, amongst many supporters and journalists. The columns then went along Rama IV Road, and passed the Puah Thai Party headquarters. Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and several other Puah Thai luminaries stood on a lorry and waved to the passing protesters. Then, on the last stretch the route went through the yellow bastion of Chinatown. But even there very large crowds awaited the Red Shirts, many waitresses and cooks of the restaurants there, but also more than a few obviously better off ethnic Chinese. I photographed a group of waitresses in yellow uniforms – they laughed and said that inside they are Red.
Back home I went through the online editions of The Nation and the Bangkok Post. I wondered if I was at a different protest than they were. What I read there must have been a rather boring affair – a few people and not much support. The protest I went to was quite different – even though there was incredible heat it was a festive and at times even almost ecstatic event. Only the next day the sole dissenting voice of Pravit Rojanaphruk from The Nation wrote an article that described what I have seen, followed the day after by another good article by Chang Noi.
This of course leads us to ask whether most of the mainstream media, apart from a few individual journalists, is just sloppy in its reporting, or if there was a blatant suppression of news. The event was covered by on-the-ground journalists. I saw them filming and taking photos. What though happened in the editorial offices then escapes my knowledge.
Just when I wanted to go to sleep I was called out again at 11 pm because of another M79 grenade attack behind the Ministry of Defense. At the entrance of a small Soi off Atsadang Road the grenade went off, separating electricity cables and shattering a few windows. Two soldiers were reported to have been injured. A few hundred meters further, in a small Soi just behind a Hotel serving the Red Light district there, the attackers left their pickup truck. Some Red Shirt paraphernalia was in the car, and weaponry. The number plate was fake, and the car stolen.
The same night, at 10 pm, a grenade hit the new offices of the NACC (National Anti-Corruption Commission) in Nonthaburi.
Sunday, 21 March, was quiet. I was still hurting all over from the long tour through Bangkok on my motorcycle the previous day. Red Shirt artists painted with the leftover blood on large canvasses at the small citadel behind their stage at Pan Fa Bridge. Most media focused on noted artist Visa Kantap who wrote a poem with blood on the canvas. An elderly artist and village teacher, Ajarn Vichak, made an impressive Tie-Dye work, where he dunked a piece of canvas into a bowl of blood. When the cloth dried a meditating Buddha appeared.
During the rallies several new catch phrases were coined. One amusing one is “melon soldiers” – green on the outside, red on the inside. The conflict has been elevated by the Red Shirts to a “class war”. The government very much resists this term, saying that by constitution all Thais are equal, and that with Thaksin’s riches he can hardly be a representative of the lower classes. The government also worries about the way Red Shirts now term themselves as “Phrai” – commoners under the old system, as opposed to “Amart” – the elite. And while Thaksin may be rich, the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle. Regardless of lofty constitutions, one does not need to look far to find that class and economically based injustices are more than evident in Thai society.
So far, apart from the white noise of almost daily M79 grenade attacks (fortunately no dead and only a few injuries), whose culprits are yet unknown, the protests went very peacefully. The modus operandi of the grenade attacks though has changed compared to previous attacks, there are now even daytime attacks, and at times multiple grenades are fired into the targets. No violent incidents involving Red Shirts, Military, Police or PAD has yet been reported. There is no display of weaponry by Red Shirt guards, and the Red Shirts have not erected any barricades. Their efforts at the UDD cadre schools (Rong Rien Padipadngan Nor Por Chor) seem to have paid off well compared to April 2009. This is a much better controlled protest. The military presence in the surroundings is low-key but obvious – small groups of soldiers armed with batons and shields are positioned at strategic street corners. Military Humvees are patrolling the area.
Presently we have reached a standstill, while the positioning of the Red Shirt leaders and government resembles a high stakes chess game. It is quite interesting though that the Red Shirt’s main target became Abhisit, the government and demands for dissolution of the parliament, even though already in early 2009 the Red Shirts declared that Abhisit is a minor target and that their main struggle is against the system of “Amartayathipathai” – the system of the rule of the traditional elites of which Abhisit is just a small part. Even though General Prem and fellow Privy Council member General Surayudh have been heavily attacked and embarrassed in the run up to the big protest, they now seem to have been moved to the position of secondary targets.













































































really excellent reporting… thank you Nick…
if military “intelligence” has any then they must have seen the same as you and while their bosses are no doubt strategising their responses they must be aware of the large popular pressure that has built against them
I have assumed that a critical break will occur if soldiers defy their commanders… presumably the generals are being very careful about issuing orders that may not be obeyed… perhaps Prayuth, if he is as rabid as painted may make the mistake?
movements by the Prince and Khun Visanu(?) and perhaps if Prem is really sick/out of action must be upping the ante for those “amart” that want a united front against the upstarts from the lower classes
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Thank you Nick, for sharing your experiences and these amazing images. You are doing us all an incredible service.
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Thanks, Nick – well done as usual. It was worth the wait to see the results of your efforts and read your first-hand impressions of what you actually saw and heard. I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for the suggestions that you have “coloured” your coverage…..
Do you have any notion of who the mob-handed photographers/cameramen were or where they were from? Thai media or freelancers or what? A shame, in a way, that you couldn’t get shots of their behaviour – but I think I appreciate the practicalities of how difficult it is to get that angle in such a scrum.
As you noted, looking at mainstream Thai media’s coverage in terms of both pictures and copy one could imagine that they attended a wholly different event.
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Nick – as usual, excellent.
Three points :
1) anecdotal – during the Songkran riots I ventured into my soi to buy food, and was cheered as a Red Shirt simply because of wearing one of those Japanese soap powder promotion shirts one buys on Khao Sarn Road, which had some red !
Until I left Thailand, months later, every night soup sellers listened to Red radio, volume full blast, with obvious widespread support in that soi – despite some Yellow Shirts.
An anecdote, backing what you and Mark Askew have written.
2)”later speculation that dwindling numbers may have indicated protest fatigue ignored the usual mechanics of these protests in Thailand” :
Yes – I was there in May’92, and protest numbers fluctuated greatly, according to eg. heat, food, repression, uprising, etc.
3)”medium ten” in cars – for a wider Western audience you need to explain that most Red-Shirts “cars” are “utes” – i.e. utility trucks, where Thais commonly pack in at least ten passengers on the back.
Uniformed Western audiences might otherwise think you are pushing propaganda, as 10 obviously can not fit into a VolksWagen !
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Great and informative reporting.
Thank You !!!
Please keep us informed , almost all other media are strangely silent……….
Phil
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Thanks for sharing you observations. Shame that you are biased though, as it is difficult to discern the real truth. Do you know that your writings serve to continue the polarizing of this country? Do you really want to have Thailand continue to be split down the middle? Surely, what both sides are fighting for are better conditions.
A good way to counter my comment is next time, before you hit ‘publish’, you could reread your work and see what a difference you could make by acknowledging the struggle from both perspectives, given that both sides (i.e. everyone) want improvements.
example
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
This applies to ‘Yellow Shirts’ also, so your point doesn’t really make sense….
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What is happening in Thailand now is almost a revolution.
One night in 1985 in Bangkok I was at a big discotheque, wearing a bright red shirt without knowing the sensitivities or the significance of the red color in staunchly-anti-communist Thailand.
On the dance-floor I was picked on by a couple of rough-looking Thai men and asked why was I in that disgusting color. They obviously thought I was a Thai. I was with a group of Thai friends and they told them I was a Burmese. Only then they left me alone dancing.
Later I realized that one could get killed in rural Thailand by being in that color and I never dared to wear that red shirt again.
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Thank you, all
“Steve”:
Many of the photographers/cameramen were completely unknown to me, and that has made a critical mass, in addition to the guys who i have known for a long time already. I have two or three not very good images of the melee in front of government house, but took more care of keeping my camera safe.
I front of Abhisit’s house it was raining while the pushing was going on, so i remained in the dry, and watched it from a distance. No need to endanger my camera.
I needed the images of the Brahmin ceremony, they were extremely important, especially in connection with the later attempted counter of the curse by the Democrat Party officials (which i have expected to happen). Therefore i had to take part in the mess until the ceremony was over, as much as i dislike such situations. This is very physical – colleagues pushing you from left and right, and from behind to fight over your position. Right hand on your camera, left hand pushing lenses away that others place in front of your camera from behind. Really disgusting.
I generally prefer to photograph with a mob of the local Thai photographers. We meet all the time, and worked out a system. Everybody needs to get his photo, no use to start arguments or fights, it would just poison the generally friendly atmosphere. Usually we place ourselves, make sure that colleagues have some space as well. When we get our images we make then sure that others have a chance as well.
The problem starts when fly by night people and amateurs come along. They don’t need to care, because they are gone anyhow in a day or two, only to be seen again when there is potential trouble again.
Fortunately they only such really messy situation was during the blood spilling. All they other photos i have shown here there were no such problems.
I have a very funny photo of the friendly mob of photographers in my next installment, which i have taken yesterday.
“chris beale”
Thank you, yes, i guess i will have to express the medium of 10 per car better in the book version in a better way – all the trucks and pick up trucks with people on the back made this.
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“Andrew”:
I hope you do not ask me to suppress news and events in order not to “polarize this country”. I report what i see, and that’s it.
It is rather difficult to report from “both perspectives” in this situation, as government representatives do not invite me to their handpicked journalist’s lunches, and in open forums, when i have the chance to ask questions, i usually get lied to (as when i recently asked Panitan about the real bullets fired during Sonkran, which he denied), or when my questions are completely ignored (when i asked the uncomfortable question over the Blue Shirts).
The PAD is right now keeping itself covered, and there is right now nothing to report about them on the ground. In past articles i have reported on them, and it may surprise you – i am on speaking terms with many PAD members, and on very good terms with a few of them as well.
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Nick,
I found your article to be dry and rather a boring account of the Red Shirt movement these past few weeks. Though you maintain your neutrality, I sense a level of sympathy towards the Red Shirts
In your comparison between PAD protests that led to the Oct. 7th crackdown – and the recent Red Shirt gathering, you suggested that this was the biggest gathering of protestors you’ve ever seen – I disagree and think you should really check the numbers instead of speculating. You also never mentioned that the PAD protests lasted over 100 days with a consistent number of protestors. You also never mentioned that PAD protestors were not given “Gas Money” or “Food Money” to join the cause.
Do you think the Red Shirt rally can last that long while maintaining a solid number of protestors as the PAD had done? Nick, there is no comparison between the two.
You so eloquently talked about the symbolic gesture of spilling blood on government house and the PM’s house – though you failed to mentioned the intense rain storm that came down heavily on all of Bangkok that morning as Red shirts prepared to “perform” this rite. If you were to really understand Animism – a back bone in thai spirituality and religion – works, you might have also suggested that this was symbolic of some sort of Divine Intervention. A sign from the gods for the Red shirts to YIELD – or that any curse put on by them would simply be washed away.
I am sympathetic towards the Red shirts to the extent that they can’t think – they don’t care what their leaders are shouting (which is mostly nonsense, distortion of facts and flat out lies and accusations), and even if they were really listening – I don’t think they have the common sense or sophistication to really see the Red Shirt logic. But thats also because there is no logic behind the Red Shirt movement. They’re here because someone said there was going to be a party, and that they were going to get paid.
Thats why the protesters are baited with money to come, and thats why when the money or funds dwindle, so do the protestors. Thats why a Red shirt rally would never last over 100 days.
Sure there is a class struggle here, there has always been and will be. But this is true with every other society – is that what this is really about?
For once, in the last decade, we have an intelligent , out spoken and eloquent prime minister. Its like going from W Bush to Obama, and in that same kind of spirit Mr. Abhisit (just him, not the coalition government or the democratic party) truly represent that hope for change. I believe in change and sure it will come soon…Good always prevails.
P.
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Some interesting conclusions that you jumped to there. I mentioned nothing about suppressing, or equal time for the yellow shirts or who you have contacts with. My point is just something for you to consider. Are you contributing to the division or contributing to the solution?
By adding a wider view to your record of events, you could make that choice clear. With this article, because you do not mention anything about the reasons why or draw any positive conclusions, it looks a lot like red shirt propaganda.
Don’t get me wrong, I am commenting because I look for purpose and reason and intention.
I say, that the majority of people in this country deserve more than they get and, I really do wonder why most thai people (red or yellow) aren’t out in the street protesting for a better share.
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Andrew – perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the general public could find a neutral media reporting – the one that does not polarize the conflict in this land of smile? In today’s world of being constantly bombarded by TV channels operated by the army and the government and the likes of the Nation and ASTV – trying to create fear and panic for the oh so violent red-shirts – I find Nick’s report (and New Mandala for that matter) a refreshing new perspective.
As for Thai people being polarized, perhaps it’s the right time to be so. Thai culture places emphasis on being compromising and non-confrontational – without acknowledging or attempting to resolve the conflicts. What you see as polarized today is partly a result of this culture.
Also, would you please explain how this paragraph:
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
also applies to the yellow shirts? The yellows are clearly more privileged than the reds economically, politically, and socially. They are perceived to be richer and were not paid by anyone to go to the rallies. They had support from all sectors – the armies, media, powerful middle class, as well as the you-know-who. If the media space is a fighting arena, the reds are clearly under-dogs and are never expected to win. (Hell, they can’t even find a decent leader apart from manipulating Thaksin.) As I recall, the yellows were asking for the destruction of Thaksin and a new democracy in which only people with a college degree can vote. You’d wonder what they are fighting for exactly…
Nick – thanks for the report. I await your new book.
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Thank you nick for your coverage.
I was at Ramkamhang area with my friends but didnt get a chance to take any picture but it was surreal non the less.
Poo Nakonsritum – I almost not going to response to you because your post is direct toward to Nick but I feel like there is this point that I really want you to think about.
You said that the red was energize by gas money to come to protest, so how much do you think they get per head? let’s say 2,000 – 3,000 according to the government spoke person’s announcement. You are saying that those people got paid 3,000 baht just to come in the hot sun and protest for a month? I’m telling you the 3,000 doesnt even worth the cost of transportation that took them to Bangkok.
Personally, I wouldn’t take 3,000 to be in hot sun for 3 days even. However, I want you to think about one thing, lets say that’s the whole 150,000 people get paid to come then we are talking about a pretty large some of people that actually accept a measly 3,000 to come out, scream, got sick, and probably a handful got sent to hospital. If you think 3,000 worth all that, then this is a really sad state the poor people in Thailand is, they are so poor that a measly 3,000 worth that much to them, do you think it was any better before then?
There’s no good or evil, nor black or white in this you are simply too naive.
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Nick,
What about Thaksin’s nightly phone ins? What about the content of the speeches? What are the goals of the leaders?
By not reporting that aren’t you “suppressing” what this is about?
TH
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Nick, thank you for this thorough coverage. Though I am not a journalist (just a lowly backpacker!), I did go to the rallies near Democracy Monument to take some pictures, and jumped on the back of a moto on Saturday’s mobile march to do the same. I did not go to the blood pouring / painting. I cannot claim to be an expert on the intricacies of Thai politics in any fashion, but I can say for certain that the raucous spirit, energy and sheer excitement was palpable, especially as the mobile march wound its way through the streets of Bangkok. I will be sending your article to my friends and family back home in Canada who have been trying to understand the background and events of these last weeks. Thanks again.
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siammiddlepath – I’m suggesting that Nick could be the first neutral media! That is what he states – “I report what i see, and that’s it”.
I too enjoy Nicks perspective and, I add it to all the rest and draw my own conclusions.
I’ll agree to this – “As for Thai people being polarized, perhaps it’s the right time to be so.” – if it contributes to bringing everyone together
Which is more right? Educated, more well off people protesting about things that need changing or poorer people being paid to protest about what they’re told needs changing? Maybe the difference is quality vs. quantity. Either way, there’s plenty of people wanting change, no matter who gets to sit in government and I look forward to someone addressing the publics concerns someday.
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Poo Nakonsritum-
A few small factual points, no need to fight the yellow vs red war over again.
-The PAD crowd was not consistent in size at all, just as was the case with the reds, big days drew bigger crowds. Weekends swelled the PAD crowd at Govt House considerably.
-It was pretty clear that the PAD crowd was primarily (not entirely) from Bangkok. No need for ‘Gas Money’.
-Plentiful free food was available at the PAD encampment. Whether people donate food (and cooking labor), or money for food (‘Food Money’, as you put it) amounts to the same thing. As they say, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
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“Poo Nakonsritum”:
I do check the numbers – the real numbers and not the inflated or deflated ones. I have varied sources outside the protest movements with whom i discuss the numbers. In addition to that i am in person present to get my own impressions. Therefore i stated what i stated: At no pint had the PAD numbers on the streets that came even close to the current protests.
One of the idiocies, for example, were the numbers cited pre-coup of several hundred thousand PAD members at Sanam Luang. If Sanam Luang is packed from one end to the other – only 100 000 people fit in. Take the large stage area, the many stalls at the sides, and the thinning crowd at the bottom end, and you come to a more realistic number.
As to moneys paid, i am getting tired of repeating the same. Yes, also moneys were paid at the PAD (such as to one old women in my Soi). But it is conjecture to equal moneys paid with “hired protesters”. People on both sides, regardless of moneys paid or not, believe in their cause. In both movements moneys are also donated by not just businesses, but also by ordinary protesters, to support protesters on the streets. I only look at political convictions of protesters, and in both movements i only find people convinced of their politics (apart from a few guards for special purposes – which each side has).
As to Thai magic – i do not pretend to “understand” it, what i wrote is the result of several interviews. What rain may or may not mean is a question of interpretation. That the Democrats took the curse more than serious was evident, and you can see this as well in the facial expression of the party officials holding the bowl of sacred water.
The Red Shirts have held already a consecutive rally lasting now more three and a half years, if you take the tent’s at Sanam Luang, for example. But also that the Red Shirt movement is still alive, and growing on organization, political ideology is counter proof of your assumption.
I would suggest to go and discuss their political convictions with the many villagers camping out at Royal Plaza and surroundings if you are interested in substance, and not just allegations.
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“Legal Nomads”:
Thank you as well.
“Thaihome”:
I can’t be everywhere and do everything. Thaksin’s speeches are quite predictable, the only slight surprises this time were the elevation of the conflict to a “class war”. I have to admit that after 5 years of almost continuous protests i get quite tired of listening to speeches on stages.
I put more importance on what common protesters say when i talk with them, as this reflects the ideological positions of the protest movements more than anything else.
“Andrew”:
I hope that i contribute to a positive conclusion of the conflict with my reports. My job is to learn and to inform as fairly and impartially as i can. It is up to readers if they accept what i write, or not. More i cannot do – i am not a leader of anything, i cannot dictate anything.
Thai society is polarized, and in the difficult and painful process of change. Part of this is learning to accept that a modern society lives through conflict and peaceful conflict resolution. This is an ongoing process, and we don’t know yet where else it will take us.
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Just wondering why Thanpuying Viraya Chavakul, a palace insider was at the rally?
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An extremely good coverage (again) from Nik Nostitz. Excellent ‘on the ground’ reports and a great deal of very useful and informative stuff that we cannot get anywhere else ( e.g. the interview with the Brahmin, the Democrats’ attempt to counter the black magic, the disruptive behaviour of media ‘blow-ins’.) Nik’s ability to meticulously chronicle the real action & the views of rank-and-file protesters & people on the streets is awesome.
He deserves an award – and I would think his first-hand reportage, backed up with superb photographic evidence will be studied by Thai Studies students for years to come. Roll on Book 2!
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I think Nick was a week too late and reiterated the same old stuff we’ve already seen on blogs like NM. I haven’t even waited for all his pix to load, I must have seen thousands of them already, it’s all a blur.
Who hasn’t read any of the “inside” accounts yet? There’s Mark and his Soi here, there’s Katherine with her translation of red headbands and t-shirts, there’s that guy who first posted about good reception on Sukhumwit, there were three or four Nirmal’s posts on his blog, Prachatai has a dozen reports, too.
Nick’s post is arguably the best but it’s just too late to really add anything.
As for numbers on the first Saturday, 150,000 people squashed at 3 per 1 sq.m. would need 50,000 sq.m. Ratchadamnoen is about 60m wide, so you’d need almost a kilometer of fully packed crowd you can’t walk through. Judging from photos, the packed area wasn’t much longer than some 300m, and I doubt there were all squeezed in three per square meter ratio.
It looks like there were only in the range of 50,000 people close to the stage, the rest spread from Sanam Luang to wherever it was on the other side.
If you want to crunch the real numbers, Google Earth is you best friend. The ballpark should still be about the same.
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“…where he dunked a piece of canvas into a bowl of blood. When the cloth dried a meditating Buddha appeared.”
It wasn’t magic Nick, that’s a standard tie-die technique using wax (but not usually blood!)
incidentally same technique David Blaine uses with the ashes and soap is this is your card?…on my arm trick!
All of which is also my comment on the Red/Yellow Brahmin shenanigans.
How can one expect evolving political consciousness when party faithfuls are still employing astrologers/witch-doctors/kids party magicians. What would Lenin/Marx or Gi have to say about these quaint practices?
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Hello,
nice photos indeed.
Still I pity these people if they really believe someone like Taksin is going to improve anything in Thailand. So the nation and the Bangkok post are biased? well I remember very well how unbiased taksin’s press was as he was in power.
I remember all the trials against journalists that this “lover of freedom and democracy” did, more than any other politicians.
The richest goes for the “class war” what a joke!
Hope this sad story will end soon.
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Many PAD protesters were also offered money. My condo block lost many security guards over several months in 2008 because they kept leaving to join the protest and make 1000 baht per day as ‘PAD guards’. Those who weren’t willing to wield makeshift weapons as ‘PAD guards’ were lured by 500 baht per day simply for attending the PAD protests.
As someone mentioned earlier, it’s normal in Thailand for protesters of all colours and persuasions to be paid, because frequently they must give up their current job (and hence income) to join the protest. It’s specious for people to criticize the UDD for compensating some of their protesters when the PAD did exactly the same, for the same reasons — compensation of lost salary, transportation and accommodation costs, and yes, for both colours, sometimes simply to be there even if the person doesn’t understand the cause they’re protesting about. BOTH COLOURS DO IT. End of.
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“Argonaut”
That why the quoted sentance began with: “An elderly artist and village teacher, Ajarn Vichak, made an impressive Tie-Dye work,…”
Thank you, but i have barely enough education to know that Tie-Dye is not magic but technique.
And as to magic rituals, this is part of Thai culture everywhere. From Bramanistic Palace rituals to village mediums, or the PAD surrounding the equestrian statue with sanitary napkins of menstruating female PAD members, or, in this case, of Democrat Party officials trying to counter the curse with sacred water.
Or, in the west, we have rituals in which wine is symbolically transformed into blood…
You will have to life with it – rituals are integral part of human culture, and haven’t hindered us in developing electric power, automobiles, and whatever else.
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“I think Nick was a week too late and reiterated the same old stuff we’ve already seen on blogs like NM. I haven’t even waited for all his pix to load, I must have seen thousands of them already, it’s all a blur.”
Note to Nick: next time, better post your pics before the event, OK?
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Steve, “post our pics before the event” is actually a clever idea for all those on the frontline of citizen journalism. I just scrolled up the page and half the pics can’t be easily dated.
Now these photographers have plenty of stock “driving around”, “good reception”, “blessed by monks”, “blood rituals”, “leaders on stage”, “red flags and banners” pictures that can perfectly complement any future coverage.
Judging by Nick’s description they aren’t the most scrupulous bunch.
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Great read and fantastic photos, thanks Nick.
It’s a pity some people have to pour cold water on the report and pick holes, rather than just take it as an honest first-hand account with a hell of a lot of legwork put in.
My biggest surprise was that the UDD had approached the human rights commission to mediate, etc. From reading the newspapers, I had the impression that they entered the picture later at the request of the gov’t.
A very minor detail but is Abhisit’s house in soi 33, as you state, or soi 31 as I read elsewhere?
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Many decades ago when the Farmers Federation of Thailand started a grass root campaign similar to the Red Shirts’ the death squads from the Military and police picked out and killed all their leaders and cadres one by one the movement finally died.
Maybe the world has changed for the civilized better and the conservative Thai society acknowledge that by letting the red shirts roam Bangkok freely. But, how long before the killings will surface again?
Nick, you’d better watch out for yourself as your are now becoming real famous and many conservatives, even obvious here on the NM, started seeing you as a serious threat to their better-dead-than-left society.
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Excellent report, Nick.
Please don’t pay attention to cynics who said you are a week late. In your next installment, you can perhaps include today’s (Saturday morning the 27th) events where the troops are leaving in their Humvee trucks from three places (Wat Bovorn, Wat Tri, and Nang Loeng race- course) after being “persuaded” by hundreds of thousands of reds. It is indeed a spectacular sight when the Humvees moved slowly along the sea of red masses.
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Entertaining if not surprising to see StanG gearing up for the next avenue to dismissing anything that doesn’t dovetail with his agenda…..
We’ve already had:
a] the usual numbers game
b] many BKK-ians greeting UDD enthusiastically were just being Thai and not returning a smile with a frown
c] “There was a rumor running around Chatuchak Saturday morning that they reds were recruiting cheerleaders for 2,000 baht. Make whatever you want out of it.” (e.g. nothing)
d] “What about people who didn’t go outside their houses to wave at the procession? Anyone counted them? There were probably a couple of million people living along the red caravan route.” (see a])
e] “the same old stuff we’ve already seen” (I’m bored/don’t like it -
nothing new here, move on folks…..)
to now the forthcoming attraction of
f] whichever pics not dismissed out of hand as unrepresentative/distorted/too-boring-to-look-at have probably been resurrected from a previous event.
Priceless……
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You omitted so many details that might portray the Reds in less than favourable light, so much so that I agree that your report seems either biased or a professional level of observation is lacking.
What the international media most needs right now is independent reporting by someone who actually understands what the redshirt leaders are shouting about day and night at their rallies and over red radio in the capital. Obviously your Thai is not up to it. I’ve been following the protests both on the streets and on red radio. It’s mostly hoarse shouting hammering on two points: dissolve the National Assembly and restore power to Thaksin. There is very little mention of elections or democracy or justice. There is little or no effort to educate neutral parties who haven’t made up their mind yet. The rhetoric seems designed merely to stir up anger in the listeners rather than to offer any convincing arguments for why the NA must be dissolved now. Also dominating the rhetoric are propagandistic exaggerations. On the radio last night a rally leader was exclaiming “There are 500,000 redshirts in Bkk now, with two million more arriving tomorrow!”
The atmosphere at the rallies, whether mobile or stationary, includes nonstop drinking of alcohol, dancing and rowdy carrying on. Once they have left the scene, the roadsides are littered with empty Saengsom bottles etc. Most Bangkokians I know find such behaviour on the part of the demonstrators ineffective and irritating.
Most Bangkokians I know are getting fed up with the traffic tie-ups and grenade attacks. We don’t like the yellowshirts much better but at least they kept their activities confined to the area around Govt House for the most part. A taxi driver told me this morning, “The redshirts are interfering with our civil rights.”
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“Marco”:
Ups, you are right – it is Soi 31, not Soi 33.
But during the press con both Red Shirts and the Human Rights commission stated that it was the Red Shirts that approached them. I found it a bit weird as well that two days or so after the government claimed that it asked the Human Rights commission.
“khaosan”:
Yes, will be all in the next installment.
“Hla Oo”:
I am just doing my job. I have always kept open channels to all sides. If they have a problem with me, they know can talk with me. I haven’t received any warnings in a long while either.
“StanG”:
The images can easily be dated – download one, scroll over it with your mouse, and see the embedded date. And no – i do not fake dates not just because it would be unethical, but also because regularly i need to check the exact time i have taken the one or the other image.
I am, by the way, not a “citizen journalist” – i am accredited in Thailand, with press card, work permit and tax card.
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Nick, my concern is essentially the same as yours – there are plenty of opportunists who would do anything to get a “scoop”.
They were a week ahead of you and filled the blogopshere, facebook, flicr, photobucket, tweeter, youtube and what not already. Who are you going to reach now?
You’ve been relegated to the second page of Pundit’s blog already.
And it isn’t even MY problem, yet I don’t want to see you being caught in a vacuum between being mainstream and “front-line” journalism, your efforts deserve better recognition.
Come to think of it, someone has to do fluffy write ups on the red movement in English, maybe they can give you a column in “Voice of Thaksin” or something.
Actually, I don’t think it would be such a bad idea if you took this job with a goal of bridging the gap in understanding between red spirit and the rest of the country, maybe you’ll get quoted internationally, too.
…
Steve, did you just spent a day collecting my quotes from NM, Bangkok Pundit, AbsolutelyBangkok, Prachatai, and my own blog? I’m flattered, lately I’ve seen you posting two comments here without quoting me at all and I was jealous for a moment, but my faith in you is restored now.
…
Re. rally numbers, I re-checked my estimates again. Saved Google Eath picture, opened in editor, filled it with standard shapes, calculated the total area, converted to the original scale, all the way generously rounding all the numbers up, and it is still less than 52,000 people in the crowd around Pan Fa bridge, at three people per sq meter.
We need Charlie from Numb3rs to count the reds filling up the rest of the space.
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Sorry StanG,
Nick Nostitz hardly needs me to defend him but the New Mandala traffic logs demonstrate (for the umpteenth time) that his photo-essays are immensely popular (regardless of when they go online). As a long-term series they are among the most widely-read content on the site.
With their unique mixture of lengthy observation, realistic pictures, and analytical asides, these reports have become the frontline authority on events in Bangkok over the past couple of years. Of course, some people don’t appreciate Nick’s influence. Bias this. Half-the-story that. We have heard it all before. Was there an English-language reporter who gave more attention to the People’s Alliance for Democracy and their mission? Not that I can recall…
Putting together 80 well-chosen pictures, plus over 5000-words of text, takes time and effort. It even took me the best part of 24-hours (while I was rushing around doing other things) to get it proof-read and up online. Notwithstanding the great value of other reports, the history of recent political tension in Bangkok will, I have no doubt, rely heavily on Nick’s writings.
Historians may also (if they have a free afternoon) trawl through the comments on NM looking for gems of insight. I sometimes wonder what they’ll make of it all!
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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“StanG”:
You asked:
“They were a week ahead of you and filled the blogopshere, facebook, flicr, photobucket, tweeter, youtube and what not already. Who are you going to reach now?”
This is a legitimate question. My answer is: I reach exactly the audience i aim to reach – people who have a deep interest in the socio-political conflict here. I have no interest whatsoever to compete in speed. That would anyhow be impossible.
While i still run around and take images, wire and newspaper photographers have already their pictures filed. During events such as in the April riots they have up to 10 or more photographers + writers (some of them even drawn from several countries in the region) stationed at designated areas, motorcycle runners pick up their memory cards, which get then worked on in their offices and sent out straight away to clients all over the world.
I can compete with them in terms of overall understanding of the situation, and because i have much better and wider on the ground contacts. And i do not compete in their market. Their job is extremely important, but so is mine as well, i believe.
But often we work together in the field, and help each other out, talk about things and discuss events.
I am not interested in reaching a mass audience that needs to consume events as soon a they happened (but as Nich said – they server statistics show that a whole lot of people read my articles). I did not start off writing here because i wanted to be famous or something, but because i was very disappointed over the general coverage of the situation here, and needed an outlet where i could write what i saw to present a counterpoint, and more in depth on the ground reporting. This has taken a life on its own now, which i have not foreseen.
I write when i have something to say, and when certain loose ends came to a conclusion, and not under the pressure that i have to be the first. If i would enjoy this, i would take up a job with AP, Reuters, DPA, Bloomberg, Ghetty Images or AFP (and would not have the financial problems i have now).
Once here, just before the airport occupation i made the mistake to post and article here while events were still happening, and i called the PAD final war relatively peaceful. A few hours after the article was up here, the PAD attacked Vibhavadi Soi 3. That is a mistake i am not going to repeat.
My main aim is to give a historically as accurate accurate picture as possible of this period from the ground perspective as possible (sorry, but there will be no analyzes of speeches on stages or academic analyzes from me – i just do what i am good at). Most of the stories of the aforementioned organizations have a shelf life of a day, or three days tops, these stories here on new mandala are read for months, and my resulting books will hopefully be read and be used as the basics for historical/political studies for decades to come. This may financially not be exactly rewarding, but personally this is extremely satisfying, and as close to what i have always wanted to do with job.
You said:
“Actually, I don’t think it would be such a bad idea if you took this job with a goal of bridging the gap in understanding between red spirit and the rest of the country, maybe you’ll get quoted internationally, too.”
Actually, i am already quoted internationally. Read some of the existing academic works, and also several forthcoming ones, and you see my book and several of my articles here on new mandala being quoted.
you said:
“And it isn’t even MY problem, yet I don’t want to see you being caught in a vacuum between being mainstream and “front-line” journalism, your efforts deserve better recognition.”
Thanks. I have gotten already far more recognition than i ever expected. In addition to the aforementioned, most of my articles are translated into Thai as well, re-published by Prachatai and read/discussed by a very large Thai audience as well. It makes me very glad that i have this way somehow managed to bridge the gap between Thai and farang.
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Hla Oo @30, like you I fear for Nick’s safety, but perhaps he has some protection due to his nationality and prominence. He’s now well-enough known that if anything happened to him it would be a major story, and scandal, not least in his native Germany. And we know what important connections Germany currently has with not only Thailand generally, but more especially very important people very high up.
Furthermore, there is the issue of bank accounts : now that even Obama has had his hacked into ( DailyTelegraph.com.au, 26/3/2010), it would only be a matter of time before some activist somewhere succeeded in dishing out similiar treatment
to those Thai “conservatives” you mention, in the event of the major story breaking that anything untoward befalling Nick would undoubtedly now become.
As for a repeat of the 1970′s and 1980′s suppression of farmers and other grass-roots organisations, or of the Red Shirts as a whole – that would very likely be countered by the still many pro-Thaksin elements within the military and police (especially).
As for bias – ALL journalism needs to be taken with at very least a grain of salt : it’s impossible for journalists, and even academics to not have some bias – but over time, it becomes obvious.
Nick is a valuable corrective to increasingly obvious mainstream media bias, and StanG you have been a valuable corrective to Nick on the numbers issue. Thank you both.
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I have to concur with those who have pointed out Nick Nostitz’s obvious hypocrisy.
He wants an unbiased media portrayal of the Reds, but he’s often more biased than most mainstream media.
So, you’ve heard the bias complaint before and he also covered the Yellows. That doesn’t make the complaint less relevant, and his slant in covering the Yellows was also obvious.
If Nick Nostitz wants to take sides in his reportage, that’s fine. Everyone should have a voice.
But in presenting himself as unbiased he undercuts his credibility.
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Val # 34
You are probably one of those guys who put stickers on UDD cut-outs saying, “Stop the mob–we want our normal lifes back.” Or are you one of those who vandalize these cut-outs, or are you merely a talker with no guts to take action for your “civil rights”?
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Hi Dad,
I think Nick just writes what he sees. And how can you not write what you see with some feeling? That’d be sterile. As I’ve just hit puberty recently, I find it pretty hard not to be totally engaged when a girl talks to me. It doesn’t even really matter what girl. Same goes with Nick I feel. If he’s ‘in the moment’, then how can you not be impassioned with whoever it is that you’re with? Particularly Betty Zipperkorn from Nakhon Nayok. Do you want me to be sterile and beige too Dad? I love Betty.
best wishes,
Elroy
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Nick,
In spite of your obvious sympathy for the reds I think your reports are excellent, compelling and unique. And they are well worth the wait, pictures and text. None of my associates or I think there is any question that what you are doing is extremely valuable.
I was however disappointed that you chose not to photograph the ‘fly-by-night’ journalist’s behaviour. Given that their activities are not without consequence, and the very fact that they figure in your report, it seemed an odd choice not to photograph them.
I also would have been interested to hear more about the content of speeches, and/or the opinions of reds themselves. The focus has shifted it seems, what are the different group’s priorities? The red press is filled with articles and pictures detailing foreign revolutions and the fall of foreign monarchies. Are such things discussed on stage or in the crowds?
Are you fluent in Thai Nick? Do you read the red press? I can struggle through written Thai well enough, and I find a lot of the content of these publications quite surprisingly explicit, I wonder how some of them manage to avoid less majeste charges.
In any case please keep up the excellent work. We have your first book of course and eagerly await the publication of your second.
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“Rose”:
Thank you
Regarding the photos of the jurnos – i have a few not very good photos of the melee. Main reason i didn’t take any more images is that i was more busy protecting my camera from damage than thinking about images, and in the case of the images of the Brahmin i had to concentrate to get the images of the ritual, and had to fight off many colleagues who wanted to push me away from my position while taking photos.
In the end, the real importance are the events here in Thailand, and not us journos.
In my next report you will see though images of a somewhat similar situation, not as bad though, where i was able to step back and safely take photos of it, without risking my camera, as the situation people took the photos of were not eminently important for me.
As to foreign revolutions and similar topics discussed, especially by the crowd – there are limits of what i can write safely. Don’t forget that repeating certain content can be very risky as well. I have to work within the confines of the legal space. I do not particularly enjoy self censoring myself, but the consequences of overstepping the lines are not exactly appealing.
Sometimes single images can say a lot, and you must read between the lines…
I can’t read Thai, but i can speak it quite well. Speeches on the stages i can follow, depending on who speaks. Some speakers are easy to follow, others not. It takes quite an effort of concentration though, the loudspeaker speaker system makes it a lot more difficult than normal spoken Thai. So far, i haven’t had enough time to just sit and listen, there is so much going on, and keeping up with events on the streets takes up many hours of the day. Since the beginning of the protests i have driven on my motorcycle almost 1000 kilometers already…
Yesterday, at the KPI, i have listened to about half of the televised negotiations, but much of it was just a repetition of previously stated position by both sides, for example. Nothing much new was said.
I also believe that i am not that well suited to do a proper political analyzes anyhow. I have no academic background. I was, for example, very grateful for Chris Baker’s translation of Thaksin’s speeches during April 2009 published here on New Mandala, and have already quoted these properly in the manuscript of my next book.
It would be very helpful if anyone here with the right credibility would publish such a translation, and/or competent analyzes.
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Dear Elroy,
It’s fine for Mr. Nick to write with a slanted pro-Red viewpoint. Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democracy. I’m not suggesting he be censored in any way.
It is very possible, however, son, to be with a group and report on them dispassionately – and not be “sterile” while doing so. I’ve seen many reports on both the Reds and Yellows and the current situation that I regard as fair and dispassionate and are quite interesting, and some that I do not.
My problem with Nick’s reports is not that he is biased or not dispassionate. It’s that he presents himself as being unbiased, and then claims the rest of the mainstream media are biased against the Reds.
So just about all the media have got it wrong except him?
Please.
That he makes these kinds of clearly erroneous claims is also reason to view other aspects of his reporting with a critical, even suspicious eye.
I’m glad you and Betty are getting along. No, of course I wouldn’t want you to be sterile, but please do use protection.
Beige? I think you look better in blue. But the choice is yours, son.
Dad
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George Jetson – 48
Can you point out which part of Nick’s writing that said he’s being bias?
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“George Jetson”:
If you want dispassionate – go to wire reports, or straight to the (so far almost non-existant) academic studies. I come from the lost art of reportage, and that is by nature passionate. Read the great reportages of a long time past when magazines and newspapers still had space for articles that afforded the attention span of more than a few minutes.
If you want biased – go to the Red Shirt’s own media. I am not one of them. There is a huge difference between “bias” and “sympathetic” (the use of a dictionary might help to understand my point).
I am tired of repeating the same all over again, i have numerous times stated where my sympathies are (ordinary and marginalized people, equal rights and opportunities, etc…).
You don’t like that – then don’t read my articles, because you won’t get anything else. Simple as that.
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Nick,
I like that photos about the interrogation of armed MP Corporal. That man had not a bruise on him. Thais are definitely more civilized than Burmese. In a comparable situation in Burma he would be slaughtered by the protesting crowd within a few minutes of his capture.
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George Jetson #48
Could you please share with us the references for these fair and dispassionate
and also interesting reports concerning the Reds and Yellows in the current situation.
I would so love to escape from this seductive red fog in which the (by now) infamous Nick has enveloped us avid NM devotees.
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Ajarn George,
As always your observations and commentary are spot on. However, I must admit that they are above my intellectual capacity.
Can you do us simple folk a favor? Please point out in Khun Nick’s piece clear instances of biased reporting and compare them with other journalistic sources. Which media outlets would you recommend for us commoners to view/read/listen to so that we salt of the earth types can comprehend (objectively and dispassionately, mind you) the drama which we are witnessing? Can you give us an example of fair and balanced journalism in today’s world?
Honestly, I am tired of all this pro-Red Shirt propaganda! I want the Yellow Shirt mobs back on the street; they were the paragon of nonviolent civil disobedience and incorruptibility. But I can’t seem to find them anymore. Where are they?
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Hla Oo
You may have overlooked the level of bitterness and anger involved in the Burmese situation over a very long period of time, not that I condone mob violence. Perhaps too keen to portray ordinary Burmese as imherently violent and as bad as the military thugs, at every opportunity. Do I sense a common thread in your postings?
Do we get to see pictures of people in detention and under interrogation, unmarked and well treated, in Burma? I don’t know about Thailand. But hardly fair jumping to conclusions and making a sweeping generalisation from one picture. Call yourself a patriot!
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Moe Aung
“The Burmese villages, partly because of the peculiarly rapid tendency of the Burmese to resort to violence, had always had a higher proportion of criminal types than was usual in the East.”
(An excerpt from The Penguin History of the Second World War)
Burmese are a violent martial race. For thousands of years they built Burma by wars, not diplomacy or trade. War and violence is in their blood. So they finally lost their country to the English, much stronger and more violent foe.
Thais are a peaceful merchant race. They built Siam by trades, diplomacy, and smooth integration of migrants especially a large inflow of Chinese. Negotiations and compromise are in their blood. That’s why Siam has never been colonized.
Race riots are very common in Burma while Thais have never experienced one of Burmese scale.
I have written for NM the following essay in 2008, if you have forgotten already.
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2008/08/04/the-horror-of-political-violence-in-burma/
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THIS IS SOOO STUPID, WHEN DID THAI PEOPLE ALL OF THE SUDDEN BECAME STUPID AND BLIND. THEY FORGOT HOW SIAM BECAME THAILAND IN THE 1ST. PLACE. THEY FORGOT THE MEANING OF OUR OWN COUNTRY, AND THEY FORGOT HOW WE BECAME A INDEPENDENT AND THE KING IS OUR LEADER. “AND RED T-SHIRT PEOPLE ALL OF YOU GUYS WILL GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. GIVING THE REST OF OUR ‘THAI’ PEOPLE A BAD NAMES AROUND THE WORLD. KILLING EACH OTHER FOR NOTHING, AND KARMA IS ALWAYS A BEST. SO RED T-SHIRT PEOPLE YOU GUYS COULD SUCK MY BIG FAT COCK. {YELLOW} IS BETTER AND IF YOU FORGOT THE MEANING AND FRIENDLY OUR COUNTRY IS THEN I DON’T THINK ANYONE’S DESERVE TO LIVE IN THAILAND. MOVE TO DIFFERENT COUNTRY THEN YOU’RE TOO BLIND AND TOO STUPID. YOU WANT “THAKSIN” TO RULE OUR COUNTRY BUT WHAT HAVE HE DONE TO OUR COUNTRY TO MAKE IT BETTER?? ALL I HAVE SEEN IS THAT HE WORRIED ABOUT HIM-SELF AND HIS FAMILY AND NOT HIS COUNTRY. WAKE-UP “THAI-PEOPLE” WAKE-UP. HE’S A MONSTER AND HE FORGOT THE VALUE OF HIS OWN PRIDE AND HIS COUNTRY AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVED THERE.
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Thanks to all of our commentators on Nick’s fascinating photo-essay. I know that Part 2 is already in the works…
Some time overnight New Mandala‘s ClustrMap, first installed in August 2006, ticked over with its millionth reader. A part of me half expects that Duangjai (above) was the auspicious millionth reader of the site. I do hope so.
Best wishes to all, thanks for all of your comments over the years, and please do excuse the occasional coarse language,
Nich
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George Jetson – 48
“So just about all the media have got it wrong except him?”
Well, let’s confine the comparison to the two national English-language papers in Thailand. Feel free to point to any of their news reporting of the current protest that doesn’t fit into the “red rage”, “rural hordes”, “March Madness” bracket.
Like Tarrin and Enrico, I look forward to you identifying at least some of what presumably must be many examples of what you see as “bias” in Nick’s reporting of this UDD protest. While you’re at it, you might also remind us of his obvious “slant in covering the Yellows”.
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Duangjai – 57
We know you are trying to make a point but by using all capitals letter its very hard to read.
Anyway, I advised you to go and read some “non-fiction” history about Thailand first, think carefully about what was really going on with the country and what happened in the last 75 years or so. (The King Never Smile, might be a good start but I have to admitted that there are several unproven rumors in the book so take it with a grain of salt)
Anyway, I’m not red, but I have to admitted that there are some element of the red movement that fit to my ideology (to have true democracy), now since I do sincerely want you to stop being a blind troll I will answers your question to simulated how I believed almost all of the red will answers.
YOU WANT “THAKSIN” TO RULE OUR COUNTRY BUT WHAT HAVE HE DONE TO OUR COUNTRY TO MAKE IT BETTER??
One would be to pay back the IMF debt, thus release us from the monetary control of the IMF.
Second would be the social reorganization, the club now has to be close at 2 am and no underage allows (which I think its a really good policy)
Third would be the serious narcotic suppression, some people might think too many jurisdiction execution cases, I my opinion, its more involve with inter-fighting between the drugs lords rather than the police.
Forth would be Suvannaphummi is finally finish (god it took 40 years!)
Fifth would be his universal health care, 30 baht project
Sixth would be the “1 million baht per village” project
Seventh would be the low cost “Ua Ar Thorn House” project
Eight would be the Taxi reorganization program, before the driver has to pay almost 800-1000 baht to rent a taxi, now trough imitation the system from Taiwan the cost was reduced to around 300 a day, that’s the main reason why the taxi love Thaksin so much.
Ninth would be the “floor price” guarantee for rice farmer, it superior to other government “guarantee price” in a way that it leave very little room for corruption and it is more effective in dispersing the money to the farmers
Tenth would be the OTOP project, which I think if the later government really drive this project, we would be something similar to Japan, how unfortunate.
Eleventh would be he literally destroy the “rubber mafia”, if you notice, before (in 2000 price) rubber price was about 13 baht a kilogram after Thaksin took over the office for about 4-5 months, the rubber price shoot up to 40 baht.
Twelfth would be he increase a lot of sufficiency in the government agency, now it only took 15 min get the ID (usually took 3 hours) and only about 30-45 min for passport. The most improvement would be the ministry of transportation where it only takes about 3 hours (including reviewing) to get a driving license, (before it takes a week)
There are much more, if you really go up country you will actually hear more stories, the reason you might not hear much about these policies was because you are having a comfortable life in BKK, which I dont really blame you since most of the projects aims for the poor. (I cant even find one project that benefit the middle-upper class, maybe the Suvannaphummi?)
Anyhow, some people might want to raise some concern with the project, I’m more than willing to discuss those concern but please do it in a civilize manner than state your point, I dont want to fight with a ranter.
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Tarrin #60 don’t feel obligated to respond to Duangjai #57 as I believe it’s just
a silly troll allowed through by the site administrators in a not so subtle attempt
to inflame the paranoia of the latent communist sympathizers lurking on the mailing list of NM.
Either that or it is really George Jetson in disguise offering an example of a fair,
dispassionate and sorta interesting report of the Yellow view point.
Is that you George?
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Hla Oo,
How can I forget that other snippet of horror story concocted on NM? That’s why I reckon you have an agenda starting from U Thant’s funeral, another ‘eyewitness’ account of yours. Granted violence is a part of human nature, but how you’ve carried on about, and continue to do so, the violent nature of the Burmese as a race serves a purpose – to apportion at least equal blame on the people and the junta.
You quoted a colonialist historian to support you theory, and expect us to give credence to that. Well done.
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Khun Duangjai, I admire your passion.
However, I don’t want to sound insulting but it appears that you are the product of a Thai university education. Is that correct? The reason I write that is because your diatribe is full of grammatical and spelling mistakes. In fact, your declaration of invective against the Red Shirt propagandists remains me of the incoherence and inability of many of my Thai students to write and to express themselves properly in English. I then have to notify them that they will fail my course but once they hand over to me a white envelope with 2,000 baht inside I make sure that they get at least a C (first letter in the word corruption). (Note: If a student seeks to get a B – for bourgeoisie – he/she must pay a minimum of 3,000 baht while a student looking to be awarded an A – for amart – must give 4,000 baht or more. I love this country!)
Look, if you want to support The Cause (PAD/Yellow Shirts/Amart) then do us a favor and tone down the ranting and the raving. You are giving the Yellow Shirts a bad name with your non-intellectual discourse. As a fan of the PAD and Mr. Clean I and many other civilized elites are mobilizing ourselves to protect the integrity of the Institution (i.e. the military-bureaucratic complex) against our enemies, the Red Shirt masses. Remember that they outnumber us considerably, have plenty of backing/presence in the Bangkok metropolitan area, and engage in superstitious black magic rituals. Will you join with us to stop Thai citizens from voicing their dissenting opinions in public and challenging the enlightened oligarchy? But first you must prove your worth.
So, here’s an assignment in which you can earn some bonus points. I would like you to investigate and report on the glorious resurrection of the Yellow Shirts and on any POSITIVE developments pertaining to the New Politics Party. After you have compiled your findings in essay format please share it with the NM community. I know for a fact that we would be more than interested in reading your scholarly work. But do not copy, cut and paste. I am familiar with the tendency of Thai university students to engage in this sort of activity when the topic to be studied is difficult.
Grazie.
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Tarrin,
Can you please elaborate that Taxi Reorganization Program in Bangkok. I am very interested as I am also in the taxi business.
From 800 baht down to 300 baht per day rental seems quite a radical reduction. And how did Taksin do it?
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Hla Oo – 64
It was called the “Ua Ar Thorn Taxi” project and I think many taxi work shops are following similar idea.
So a bit of background story as usual, if you live in Thailand some 10 years ago they will see that a lot of Taxi in Bkk were dominated by the Yellow-Green stripe one (aka the private owner) not until later, during Thaksin to be exact, that we are seeing more and more pink, red-blue, red, and blue taxi, well this is directly resulted from the project.
Anyway, the problem why it was so expensive before was because there are many mafia in the taxi ring before, since if you want to be a taxi there are so many cost associating to it, first you got to have permit then you have to have the taxi driving license, the insurance for your car and the most important thing is, you got to have a car. To add salt to the injury, the ministry of transportation had this very shady procedure in registered the taxi car which could takes weeks to complete.
So as you know, most NE people are too poor to have enough money to invest in any of that, so instead they go to the taxi mafia to ask for loan and car to drive so thing get worst from there.
So what Thaksin did was to set up a co-op fund, the money was initially given by the government in term of low cost loan (I believe it was around 3-4%) the money was use under supervision of the taxi drivers’ group representative to set up work shop so that the maintenance could be centralize (thus reduce cost). The car rental was divided into 2 shift, noon and night, so that the car can be use by 2 people instead of 1 to maximize profit (because you can have a car generated to the workshop around 700-800 baht per day sharing by 2 drivers at the cost of 300-400 each) people who which to buy a taxi could get the car at a very cheap price (I think less than 200,000 which they can ask loan from the fund) then pay the rest in form of daily renter. Furthermore, the insurance is now being issue in large numbers under the work shop name (instead for a single car), so this reduced cost further.
Thaksin also revamp the ministry of transportation so now it took less than a day to get the permit, license, and the condition assurance check with only fraction of the cost it used to be, so this made the ex-taxi mafia easily converted their illegal lending activity into a legitimated one (thus reduce the mafia money and other illegal operation). That is why they are now afford to rent a taxi at half the price of what they paid before. The system has been used successfully in Taiwan, so Thaksin flew in about 5-6 representative of the taxi committee and about 2-3 people from the ministry of transportation to observe and copy the model from the Taiwanese.
I hope this answer you question Hla-Oo
Furthermore, I hope that the people that hated Thaksin should be more understanding to why the taxi driver love Thaksin so much, its not because Thaksin pays them money (oh well maybe indirectly) but he really turn taxi to be a feasible career choice for many poor people. Oh and I heard that someone is trying to stead the lime light and claim that the project was his idea all along (I cant the the name of the person because of the LM law but you all know who he is)
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Tarrin… thank you, I appreciate the insight into the taxi process
I like Thaksins direct approach in bringing in the Taiwanese to help set it up… he doesnt have the “not invented here” problem
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Tarrin,
Thanks for explaining very well. It appears the taxi system in Thailand is a reverse to what is happening in Sydney.
Same sort of system based on the Taxi cooperatives was used in Sydney till the day they commercialized the Taxi plates. Before most driver owned the Taxi plate and car through their cooperatives.
Now mafia and the banks own most of the plates and a taxi plate costs more than almost half a million bucks in Sydney. And so the drivers are forced to rent the plate and car at very high rent. A 12 hours night shift in Friday night could cost more than $200 now.
The result is almost no Australians drive cabs and only the hard-pressed recent migrants and foreign students drive taxis in Sydney as the driver’s earnings are so low to survive here.
Good on Thaksin Shinawat for his good deeds in helping the poor Thai cabbies.
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Tarrin #65 – excellent post.
Thank you very much for explaining the intricacies of Thaksin’s taxi scheme, especially for us farang, who I think have found it very difficult to follow exactly what was going on with this issue – and neither Bangkok Post nor Nation were great help.
There was a good point raised in a question to Chris Baker about six months ago, at the FCCT, on this issue. But nobody answered it as well as you have.
I did notice an improvement in Bangkok taxis under Thaksin – but on the downside, there was more of them : so traffic congestion got worse, or stayed the same.
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Tarrin,
Thanks for the best advocacy I ever heard for Thaksin. Eloquently tabled, explained and in detail especially the intricacies of running the taxi service in BKK. A rich philanthropist, not even a socialist, and such acrimonious attacks on the man by the establishment. Redshirts will soon be labelled communist, everyone tarred with the same brush, the universal excuse for a crackdown on any progressive elements that challenge authority effectively the world over.
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as I understand, several Thaksins initiatives, like the taxi cooperatives, were designed to cut the power of the mafias, illegal rich, out of peoples lives
the village loan funds are the most well-known example, where he gave 1M Baht to every village on the condition they setup a cooperative to manage loans at low interest rates, this enabled many farmers to extricate themselves from the loan sharks that had a stranglehold on credit in the villages
the 2 and 3Baht lottery was designed to undercut what is called the underground lottery run by the mafias
the loan funds were (and still are) quite successful because the local people had direct control for their own benefit
the lottery was and is not successful because it struck more directly at the rich (amart) wealth creation schemes and needed the bureaucracy to cooperate
OTOP is also a locally run cooperative scheme for building the ability of each region to realise its cultural and product advantages, this needs some further drive from the top to increase its sales and marketing in Thailand and for export
if anyone else can correct or comment further……
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About the village loan scheme, I think it’s fair to say that it was/is a mixed story – how could it be otherwise? Not all village administrators handling the funds wisely, making them available to all borrowers on an equitable basis or always ensuring that every borrower be reasonably placed to repay the loan. But then, the same can be said of many other microloan schemes from the famous Grameen Bank original onwards. [cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance#Other_criticisms ]
Flawed? Certainly. Is that sufficient reason to trash it comprehensively as some do? Certainly not.
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Steve – The heart of the micro-loan concept is that, 1 success for every 10 fail cases. If you can make 1 person become successful from the micro-loan that he can pay back all the debt (or increase asset for his community thereof) for 10 people then it is considered as successful scenario since we are dealing with a very small amount of money here not those in the billion handing out by the big banks so just one successful man for each community is more than enough to compensate the lost.
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@ Nick Nostitz #50.
Take a good look at yourself Mr. Nostitz: Your advice is “… then don’t read my articles, because you won’t get anything else. Simple as that.”
It is good advice, and usually I don’t waste much time on you. But I notice how often you whine about how tired you are of answering your critics. You’ve said that repeatedly. And you do answer them to an almost compulsive degree.
Well, take your own advice: if you don’t like the criticism, don’t read it and don’t reply to it. Just go on taking your photos and writing your reports and let readers judge for themselves instead of whining. Simple as that.
As for you fan club’s request for me to deconstruct your reports for their obvious slant and bias, rather than waste my time on those who only see the world through red-colored glasses, (and you can see by the infrequency of my posts that I don’t spend much time on this site) I’ll simply recall the panel discussion Mr. Nostitz was on last May at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand with other photojournalists who covered the Sonkgran riots.
In front of the entire audience you claimed that red shirts had been shot and killed by the military. You insisted this was true. You even said you had seen it.
Until you were called on it by the other photojournalists. One kept pushing you for evidence of this until, sheepishly, you backed down and admitted that you had not seen any red shirts being shot. In the end you admitted this was only something red shirts had told you. But there you were trumpeting it as fact, and at first, as something you had seen. Your bias had gotten the best of you.
You were exposed as a teller of untruths.
And by the way, there were many posters on this website last year who were also voicing disbelief at the notion that the army had not killed anyone during the Songkran riots and spouting a lot of weng about red shirts being shot.
Well, it is nearly a year since those events. Where are the relatives of those supposedly dead and missing red shirts? Why have they not come forward to declare their relatives went missing and demand justice? Why is there no Committee for the Relatives of April 2010? Why do red websites such as norporchorusa still insist there were “mass killings” in April 2010?
Yes, there are a lot of red faces here. And an awful lot of weng.
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Wow — Daddy George knows the wai run expression of ya ma weng!! But since aunty Sri has heard of this, why not daddy? Choke dee kha.
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Tarrin: You’ve become a very active poster lately. Your posts are impressive — you are obviously passionate about your beliefs and you are scrupulous in supporting them with facts. A model for all.
I would disagree with one fact in your list of what Thaksin accomplished — about the 2 a.m. closing law for bars. I think the new law under Thaksin requires a 12 midnight closing. Most bars ignore it, via a little tip to the police. Most seem to close at 2 a.m., which reinforces everyone’s assumption that that’s the legal closing time, though it’s two hours past the legal deadline. Even one of Abhisit’s cabinet members commented a year or so ago that he’d like to see the Bangkok Governor “enforce the 2 a.m. closing time” for bars!
I think Thaksin also made big strides toward improving education. He took the Education portfolio for himself, indicating his interest.
(In sum, I hope he doesn’t return; he was corrupt and was and is mainly interested in himself, though he did accomplish some good.)
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George jetson…
just on whether some reds were killed last April…
there were 2 found floating in a khlong, accounted for but of course the “obvious” killers have been covered up
plus on the international news there was a sequence where soldiers backed up some covered trucks and threw in some (6?) dead/unconscious bodies early on the morning of the military attack… I have never seen any coherent story about this… another Thai cover up or just never explained in english?
all a bit murky and leaves a nasty taste…
do you have a straightforward view on all this?
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“The heart of the micro-loan concept is that, 1 success for every 10 fail cases.”
Huh?
You are obviously not in any money lending business.
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“George Jetson”:
You said:
“You were exposed as a teller of untruths.”
I have never stated that i saw that the military killed protesters, i have always stated, as i wrote in my report, that the military has partly shot straight at protesters during the early morning attack, that bullets passed over my head. It is proven beyond doubt that several protesters were injured by gunfire at Samliem Din Daeng, and i stated that it is very likely that a few protesters ( i never used the term “masskillings”) might have been killed, but that there is no proof.
The discussion at the FCCT was with Thierry Falise alone (and not “other photographers”), who stated that no shots were fired at the protesters, that he hasn’t seen any shots fired straight.
I have strongly disagreed with Thierry, and in the course of the discussion it came out that Thierry only came after the morning attack, based his view on the much better disciplined lunch attack, and not, like me, was there during the early morning attack, where the shots were fired, and where people were injured (and maybe killed).
We had no argument at all, we have talked that evening, and many times after, and we have also met today at Rajadamri, and get along fine, as usual.
I would suggest you to check your facts of the discussion with Thierry himself.
I have never ever based my arguments solely on “what Red Shirts told me” – i always look for corroboration from my sources in the security forces, unless i have seen things myself, and even then i compare my experiences with other’s. In the case of Samliem Dindaeng i have myself heard the bullets passing over my head through the leaves of the short tree i was standing under.
In addition to this i have recently spoken with a Thai colleague who was with me at Samliem Din Daeng, who, while i ran, he hid behind a pillar, and next to him a Red Shirt was shot through the chest.
And no – i have not “backed down sheepishly” – anyone who knows me knows very well, that i will hardly back down, and that “sheepishly” is not part of my character.
You, sir, are a liar and a coward who discredits me from anonymity. And in the unlikely event that you come out of your comfortable anonymity, i will state the same directly in your face.
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George Jetson@73 :
“Well, it is nearly a year since those events. Where are the relatives of those supposedly dead and missing red shirts? Why have they not come forward to declare their relatives went missing and demand justice? Why is there no Committee for the Relatives of April 2010?”
I can think of one very good reason why not – namely : there has been no equivalent of Anand’s post-May’92 government.
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BBK Lawyer – Before Thaksin some bar close down at 6 am, so I have to disagreed with you on that point, beside, I think the close down time is at 2 am, by law, did I make a mistake on that?
Furthermore, I have to disagree about education during Thaksin, I think he didnt improve anything, most of Thai students still only good at repeat what teachers and books tell them like parrot, so I think Thaksin didn’t achieve anything significant during his time, but I praised him on that he had made an attempt to increase teachers’ salary.
Lastly, about Thaksin shouldn’t return, I think he should, Thailand is in need of people that can do business, and Thaksin is one of a rare talented that doesnt come by everyday. Furthermore, if you think just because he is corrupted (which I personally think the case bought against him is politically motivated so it loses the legitimacy) that Thaksin deserved to go then people like Suthep who straight out corrupted with the Sor-Por-Gor 4-01 or Newin’s some other nasty corruption incident should also leave the country immediately.
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StanG – I’m working for a private fund, and I do know more about lending than you do.
Anyway, why the statement is plausible was because the amount of the loan is so small, we are talking about 50,000 baht maximum here, not a large 1 billion with multiple MLR and time span. If 10 people get 50,000 each, and 1 was able to turn it back you had a 450,000 loss, hardly a big money, the SCCC lost 100 times of that money. Anyhow, we are betting on that 1 guy who able to pays back, and “maybe” able to form a SME worth 1 million and so on. Is it worth 500,000? hell sure is. However, if without that 50,000, we might never that one man.
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Tarrin the initial size of that scheme was 76 billion baht. If only one in ten pays back that’s 70 bil in losses, plus the culture of non-repayment that would cost a lot more in the long run.
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StanG – you see this is why you dont understand, you only look at this as a one side lost, but you dont look at how much the 7 Billion will, later on, turn to be (maybe) a 700 Billion worth of small and large conglomerates. That 70 billion losses it worth to risk (however, actual project is only Baht 2 Billion in size).
Anyway about the fail to repay, I didnt say that I encourage the borrower the miss their payment, I simply said the the concept is that if 1 success case emerge out of 10 cases then it is worth the try. Furthermore, about that regard, I happened to came across a draft research
http://www.cid.harvard.edu/neudc07/docs/neudc07_s3_p08_boonperm.pdf
However, it is a “draft” after all so take it with a grain of salt.
Anyway, what I want to point out is that if you notice in Table 1 of the research. The overdue was around 7%, extremely low comparing with commercial bank about one year default of 3-4%. Of cause, if you are talking about the whether this is the most efficient way to deal with poverty, the answer is inconclusive, but is it better than other attempt in the past? yes it does.
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Noone from the red tricky shirt was killed last April…
But…normal bankokians were killed by red bad shirts…
There were no harm caused by Apisith’s govt…we were safe under his command against red shirts…(Farangs are too panic)
See this movie too know more of Thai
http://konthaithemovie.com/
Sorry if you cannot understand Thai…
We happened to have our own language…too bad some of you do not
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guys, just reading your to and fro on the village scheme
it seems to me its a great decentralised way of forcing the elite serving loan sharks from siphoning off funds from the villagers and taking their land away as well, which is why the land entrepreneurs hate the idea
meanwhile I just came across this article referenced by bangkok pundit and recommend a very sobering read…
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/2009/05/thailand-turns-into-indonesia-and-vice.html
would be interested in your views
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Tarrin,
1) nowhere in that paper they said the expected repayment rate to be only 10%.
2) I’m not going to argue silly point about converting 90% loss into a gain by looking at it form another angle. Have you tried preaching this to your local money lenders?
3) I’m not going to argue overall merits of Village Fund either, not the time, not he place.
I think I have nothing to add anymore on this particular subject.
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Abhisit just announced the State of Emergency at about 6 pm Wednesday the 7th of April. But instead of staying home, more and more Bangkokians are going to the Reds’ rallying points at Phanfa/Rajdamnern and Rajprasong, now already accommodating tens of thousands of protesters. So will we still see him as PM at the end of this week ?
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StanG –
1) nowhere in that paper they said the expected repayment rate to be only 10%.
Yes it was was 92.3% repayment rate ( 100%-7.7% over due) so yeah, you are not going to see the 10% repayment because it was a concept, so what are you complaining about??
2) I’m not going to argue silly point about converting 90% loss into a gain by looking at it form another angle. Have you tried preaching this to your local money lenders?
Yet again you either misread or misunderstood me here, I said the 10% success will be convert into something bigger, not the 90% lost. Moreover, this is not something being done by local money lender (or the shark loan lender who charge 20% daily interest) but that done by the government so you argument doesnt even make sense.
3) I’m not going to argue overall merits of Village Fund either, not the time, not he place.
Yeah you shouldn’t, why did you even want to argue in the first place??
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While I read here regularly I usually have little offer since my orientation seems much more empirical than political, as in much of the discussion here. Regarding the The Village fund (VFR) those discussing it may find this World Bank report Does the Village Fund Matter in Thailand to be of interest. In summary the findings are as follows.
For households obtaining Village Fund loans expenditures increased by 3.3% and income by 1.9%.
The effects were greatest in the lowest income quintile where expenditures increased by 5.5%.
The primary beneficiaries were credit constrained farmers and there seems to be little impact with regard to increasing non-farm income.
There exist synergies between BAAC and VRF loans. Household obtaining credit from both sources had the largest increases in both expenditures and income.
Many interesting details, qualifications and references as well.
The link is here.
Empirically,
Bob
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