The ABC’s iconic Foreign Correspondent program is advertising a Thailand-specific report that will run on Australian television tonight. Having just heard the promo it sounded like they have decided to smash through some of the remaining media taboos concerning coverage of Thai politics. On first impressions, this is a program that New Mandala readers won’t want to miss.
Update: The reporter, Eric Campbell, just said (on ABC2′s excellent News Breakfast program), “It is very possible that I may face criminal charges for this story…I may never be able to go back to Thailand…it is an extraordinary situation”. He also mentioned Darunee Charnchoensilpakul‘s 18-year prison sentence, among other matters.
Update 2: At Crikey (subscriber only), Andrew Crook provides some extra context. A key section reads: “Campbell will be the first television reporter to bust through the media taboo over lese majeste, which has led to foreign reporters tip-toeing around statements critical of King Bhumibol Adulyadej and his acolytes, for fear of arrest. In fact, any public comment that’s considered insufficiently deferential can lead to 20-years in the clink. The laws famously snared struggling Australian author Harry Nicolaides, when he was arrested at Bangkok airport in August 2008 for daring to write a few lines bagging the monarchy in a book that sold 7 copies. But in recent weeks, the lese majeste facade has began to slip…Campbell said the subject matter was so controversial that he will never be able to return to the country and that he fears for the safety of journalists inside Thailand who flout the ban. As it stands, a Jetstar flight into Suvarnabhumi Airport could almost certainly land Campbell in the clink in the manner of Nicolaides…The four-man ABC Bangkok bureau could also suffer dire consequences. Asia Correspondent Mark Willacy has been filing reports on the protests, but is under strict instructions to avoid overt criticism of the King. Campbell said he was careful to compile his report without the assistance of the bureau. Foreign bureaux have a history of being tailed, and targeted. In 2008, the BBC’s Bangkok correspondent Jonathan Head faced charges under lese majeste, before finally fleeing to Turkey to avoid arrest.”
Could it have any implications for the ABC office at Chit Lom?
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Thanks The Frog,
Eric Campbell stated (on the TV this morning) that the report was put together without the knowledge of the ABC’s Bangkok office.
It is an intriguing set of circumstances. We now wait for the report…
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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At last – at long last.
I’ve been lobbying Australian journalists for coverage like, for ages now. Congratulations – they’e finally got up to the job.
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Could it have any implications for Thais in Australia ?
Especially those huge anti-Thaksin, Royal and pro-Thaksin Thai bank accounts in Oz.
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I admire Eric Campbell dedication, “There are many things in life that will capture your eye, but very few capture your heart. These are the ones to pursue. These are the ones worth keeping.” I respect his passion, “If you have but one opportunity, make it count.”
Eric Campbell has dreamed for a better world, “Never let fear become the boundaries of your dreams.” I want to tell you this, “It only takes a single thought to move the world,” thank you, Aussie Eric Campbell!
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In all the excellent reporting I’ve seen thus far, there hasn’t been anything on the resources and organization of the Red Shirts. Do we have any information as to how they are actually being organized? Does it begin from upcountry and move into Bangkok? Are there groups of farmers, workers, taxi drivers, etc.? Who are the guards? How much of the financing is directly or indirectly from Thaksin? This would seem to be a critical factor in any explanation of the Red Shirts’ sustainability, their bargaining power, etc.
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Rick Donner #6 – there have been severeal very notable books published on the vast Isaarn and Lanna grassroots, farmers/ local people’s self-organising, self-generating protest movements covering severeal deacades – BEFORE Thaksin became a major force.
I wonder who is using who in the red Shirt movement now.
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Has this been ‘pulled’ ????
Just looked at ABC TV website and it says FC is abt greece tonight ???? Maybe I am looking at the wrong place …
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I can’t view it either. If he said what I think he said he should be applauded. And it’s better that those who still have a country (they can afford to to retreat to) can say it.
The overt expression of idealist beliefs is not always particularly sensible for long-term expats. Particularly when there are so few signs that idealism has all the answers.
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I could not find it on the link provided
Could someone please upload it to mediafire or something of that sort so those in the Torlae Land at least have a chance to watch this?
Thank you in advance
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A good question which could be asked on this program is the following :
does anyone seriously believe Thailand is not going to be going to a new national election within the next three months ?
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Rick #6
Some of your questions (a social movement approach might add some more) repeat what Danny Unger has said in the Asia Times (wonder why he risked his academic credibility by publishing in a PAD paper). I am sure that you have seen his article at
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LD07Ae02.html
In fact, I would also like to see more information about these issues. Yet, they need research, which is slow in coming. One source is
Chairat Charoensin-o-larn. 2010. “Redrawing the Thai Political Space: The Red Shirted Movement.” Paper, Rural-Urban Networks and Transitions in Asia: Re-spatializing Cultural and Political Imaginaries. Jointly organized by the Asian Urban-isms Cluster of the Asia Research Institute and the Cities Cluster of the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, National University of Singapore, 25-26 February 2010. 15 pp.
Attachak, also of Thammasat, has been writing about the informal sector being a recuiting ground for the UDD.
Yukti, an anthropologist at TU, has been doing research on the reds. See the article by Pravit Rojanaphruk. 2010. “The reds are emerging active citizens, anthropologist says.” The Nation, March 24, 2010.
It would be good if those who have been doing substantial research on the UDD could come forward and inform us of their work, and its results.
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Fantastic report.
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I’m in Bangkok at the moment, how can I watch this in Thailand, will it be available online ?
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Dear Lord Buddha, they played THAT video clip!
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The ABC has a very good online service known as iView.
Tonight’s episode has yet to be uploaded but following this link from tomorrow (Wed 14 April), should allow you to stream tonight’s episode.
A warning: there is a chance this service might be region-locked to Australian IP addresses.
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Jonathan Head did not “flee” anywhere. He left Thailand rather reluctantly, after living with unfounded accusations of LM for years, for no reason more than that he was rotated out by the BBC.
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Brave reporting. I think it will be very interesting when the king dies, as to how warmly the prince is received. Hmmm, could get very interesting. Either way the time of monarchies is coming to an end.
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Tested ABC link on last week and it is region locked for Australia only. Please can someone link to an upload for those of us in LoS?
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Thank you for that clarification on my part Richard. There seems to be a common assumption that I was forced to leave Thailand for fear of arrest.
I was being investigated on three complaints of lese majeste, and the law being what it is, this was an opaque and sometimes distressing experience. There were various threats made against me, mostly on pro-PAD websites. I was never charged.
But I left Thailand solely because the 3 year term the BBC allows its correspondents in one post was up. We actually had some constructive discussions with the Thai authorities about my case. Needless to say I was in a much more fortunate position than Thai nationals investigated and charged under the law.
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Amazing stuff in amazing Thailand. This report truely pushes the envelope and includes that video of the CP with near naked third wife. Dear Lord Buddha indeed. Would not be surprised to see the ABC office shut down and a diplomatic spat between Bangkok and Canberra over this. It is truely ground breaking stuff and congrats to Eric for daring to report this. Those who know of the sensitivites involved here understand just what this all means.
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Dylanesque, the reception will be fawning and cringing as everyone observes protocol — but they’ll do it with teeth clenched and ice in their hearts. And after the image on them changes, we’ll see more smudged-up, crumpled bank notes than crisp, clean ones.
The video that runs before films should be interesting. They won’t have much footage of benevolent, paternalistic behaviour to choose from. Perhaps images of celebrating the anniversary of a cherished family member’s birth will suffice. Complete with blowing out the candles and a mediocre 80s soundtrack. Should go down a treat with cinema audiences.
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Add my name to those in Thailand wanting to watch this program.
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Wesley is right. It is locked for viewers in Australia only.
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Also want to see. Can you guys post outside Australia?
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” . . .In fact, any public comment that’s considered insufficiently deferential can lead to 20-years in the clink.”
In Fact????? Insufficiently deferential to a 20-year clink???
I have been a resident of Thailand for nearly 10 years now . . . but New Mandala must be hating the Thai monarchy deeply to be writing or encouraging writing such hogwash!!
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Dear Jim Roost,
Very quickly: I think you’ll find that Andrew Crook at Crikey wrote the phrase in question. We quote many things on New Mandala, including many things that we may disagree with. Please don’t take a quote as New Mandala‘s encouragement. All we encourage is free and open debate.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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For those who did not understand what was Darunee Charnchoensilpakul speech for those red shirt people will never understand. She insult him with her anger by treated our king for life. Is that the right thing to do? For the future king issue I think it is the personal issue, don’t u guys have a fetish side? There is a plot to destroy the monarchy so the clip was leaked by insider. Everyone is different , if he is not popular then there will be the change, we don’t need judgement.
One day if you found that your beloved parent has a kinky video of themselves , would u still love them or judge if they are a criminal?
You have your right to say or report and also I have my right to show my thought as I’m Thai who were born , grown and live in thailand. Do you think you really know about Thailand more than Thais? Of course everyone think differently about politics and don’t forget that the Communism who are waiting to terminate the monarchy is still out there waiting for the right time to interfere.
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No one is fucking in Jail because of the issue. But the law launched just make us should not do that. And Thai pp never see our king run to caught any one. U guys just fucking non sense. Not think out of the box. Just fucking think we should be the same. Why u don’t think about culture, nature of pp, and so one? Have u ever got a high degree? Or really success in a real life? I am not mean in a stupid job.
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Just want to point out that not all Thais think like the previous two posters. But many of my personal middle-class supposedly educated friends would still fall into this category.
It’s quite depressing really to argue with them on this, not the mention the LM law so altogether, we just don’t mention it in any discussion. So when you foreigners bring this up, it’s not surprising that their reaction would be that all the Thais think like them and those who think differently are not Thai.
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“#33 don’t u guys have a fetish side? ”
The answer is definitely Yes. I would imagine that most posters here, regardless of outlook and nationality would say that their fetish is flogging a dead horse. That’s how it feels to live here and watch the overprivileged (whatever damned shirt they wear) constantly murder, maim, steal and intimidate with total impunity. This is the real issue. Without some degree of a rule of law, democracy is pure fantasy.
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I’m in LoS and desperately want a linjk to see the program. Can anyone upload it to youTube or something?
Take the recent bloodshed, then watch the France24 news channel footage showing soldiers firing live ammo into the crowd. Yet some “government spokesperson” insists they “only fired into the air”.
I’m not claiming political knowledge, but the way the blockage of the airports (BKK and DMK) was tolerated speaks for itself. No tear gas, no attempt to carry out protesters etc.
The depth of double standards in society is hard to believe for those who have no idea what is possible. Are the funerals of Red Shirt people attended by royals?
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For those Monarchy lovers (Thai or foreign) we have experience a fair share of your thought here, but the reason we never listen (or care) was because your inability to put up a logical explanation why we should have LM law in the first place.
The most dangerous aspect of LM law is that it allows the royal family to be able to commit crime (civil or criminal) without anyone able to comment or arrest them for that matter, who knows what they did behind those walls, there might be a tortured room in there for all we know. We start all this discussion for the future for our beloved institution and the clean democracy and politic without any divine intervention. Don’t even start about the rule of law because the LM law itself is the law that is not respecting the rule of law.
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Tarrin #35, Well put. The LM law trumps all other laws.
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Tarrin,
I hope you have a safe place to hide when the LM policemen come looking for you. You have offended against the Royal family and broken LM Law too many times on New Mandala.
If you are in a serious trouble with LM police you should go to Aussie Embassy on Hta-non Sathorn and apply for a refugee protection visa.
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Tony Thai,
There is no right to say or report. There is clearly no right to say or report what one might want to say within Thailand but the laws on lese majeste also apply to statements made outside Thailand’s borders. Perhaps Kasit Piromya might be charged for his statements made at Johns Hopkins University although more than likely double standards will apply here too.
Mai,
“No one is fucking in Jail because of the issue.” You don’t read enough. Da Torpedo and Suwicha Takhor (and maybe others) are in jail because of this issue. But you’re right to say that the king does not run to catch anyone. Courtiers and toadies and those with their own personal axes to grind do it.
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It seems to me Tarrin #35 is taking a puff at some of the people here who express mildly royalist opinions. That doesn’t particularly worry me as an individual, as I too have significant reservations about the role of this monarchy in the modern world. But I think you are being a bit unfair on some of the pro-monarchists on this site. They are NOT the people who are abusing this law. I’d say many of them have fairly transparent reasons for respecting the current incumbent. You may well have a great deal more to lose from those who appear (right now) to be on your side.
The past, present and future use/misuse of the LM law for repressive purposes is not restricted to PAD supporters. Indeed, which side in this conflict doesn’t claim to be monarchist. (Well, a few of the old communists perhaps.) All that stuff about Stalin on the cover of the Thaksin rags is just political posturing and slapstick. Once Peua Thai gets back into power, the anti-monarchism will die a death – as they will again get stuck into their long-term plan to subvert a weak succession for their own purposes. They have a very real interest in creating a monarchy they can manipulate. And I’m sure the LM laws will continue to serve them very well in that purpose.
At this point, I know you will start saying this is paranoid fantasy. My answer to that is that most people would never have believed that Thaksin would create this much trouble for this country, back when he first started running for PM. But he has. And he cannot entirely shrug off the blame for that on ‘jealous people’ alone. At one point he had the establishment eating out of his hand. Why did it go sour? Probably at the point where he began to think of them as irrelevant. We’d all like to think they are sometimes, but if you are going to be a realistic Thai PM you have got to work with these people. If there is a real need for change, there is also a need to gradually convince the elite that the time for change has come. He messed it up completely. Those who foresaw this happening, are now forgotten. With Thaksin, you can always be sure that at least some of your worst fears will eventually come true. You don’t have to buy into every single crackpot theory about the man, to realize he is deeply-flawed. Sooner or later, he always produces the hard evidence for you.
A very good reason to repeal this law, or drop it altogether is, to starve both sets of succession terrorists of something they can continually abuse to strike fear in the rest of the population. But here’s the real kicker. Once we have had the inevitable election, we will still be faced by a government that wants to keep the LM laws. Thaksin has not invested huge amounts of cash in this civil war just to let the more extreme redshirt idealogues call all the tunes in his next government. (‘His’ by proxy almost inevitably. Old tricks die very hard here.) The red shirts are only the goon squad in this succession war. After the election, it will be all about Peua Thai. And I’m sure they are all avid flagwavers – who will be only too keen to hypocritically hide behind the institution when it is convenient.
You might as well kiss your LM repeal plans Goodbye right now Tarrin! They are practically pushing up the daisies already. And if the Democrats manage to squeeze water out of stone, the scenario will be much the same anyway.
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At no stage was I “under strict instructions to avoid overt criticism of the King”, as stated in the report on the Crikey website. In my nearly two decades as a journalist at the ABC I have NEVER received any “instructions” of this type. I suggest in future you do not rely on the Crikey website for any form of verifiable reportage. The reporter did not contact me for clarification or confirmation, and what he’s written is absolute crap.
Mark Willacy
Tokyo
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Thanks Mark,
We appreciate the clarification. Please don’t hesitate to offer any other insights that might be relevant here.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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When you did this report, why don’t you also make another report about Taksin to show the world about his stories behind the scene that very exclusive and even the red-shirts who support him doesn’t know before, just like you did in this report. This report is a not fair presentation. I’m asking for your ethics and morals as being a journalist. Have you ever thought about conducing this?
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The Eric Campbell report was advertised on Australia Network on Monday morning, and according to their TV guide Foreign Correspondent was due to be screened at 18.00 hrs (Thai time) last night (Wednesday). Unfortunately Australia Network chose to re-run an old story on an unrelated topic. I contacted Foreign Correspondent to ask whether the story would be available via Australia Network and received a reply informing me that it would not be shown, owing to “regional sensibilities” and legal reasons. So much for “bringing our world to yours”.
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My girlfriend is middle class with a decent Bangkok education and although she doesn’t outright support LM she just doesn’t care that people can be locked up for words.
This topic is just about the only thing we argue about and has many times nearly brought our relationship to an end.
Other friends who are also near the top of their fields in Thailand and decently educated also cannot see the problem of this law.
For me this just shows that the propoganda that has been spewed out over many decades is working very nicely.
However, although we in the west have more freedom of speech it is not much different to the way religion can still hold so much sway in supposedly free minded countries.
Help me out here, but if Presidents and Prime Ministers still believe in a sky fairy then what chance have normal middle class Thai educated people got.
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wotdem? – As much as I want to agree with you. However, we are more than ready to fight with people like Thaksin or Veera for that matter, even among the red, they all know that one day after the movement is done and the old system had been demolish and the new one is put in place, the red will be fighting among themselves about this matter.
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Trojan – Your analogy of religion is a good one. The lack of critical capacity of even of the most educated Thai mind never ceases to amaze me. You’ll find doctors and peasants are as pig-headed as each other when it comes to an open discussion about Thailand. When confronted by anything approaching criticism, their natural instinct is to revert to a childlike and spiteful diatribe spouting the familiar old chant of King, Religion and State.
Modern secular and democratic nations have been successful in part because they have managed to separate church from state. Until Thais from all classes grow up enough to separate their own ‘unholy trinity’ I don’t have much hope for them.
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Time to renew the Pommy passport…
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The entire facade hanging around a monarch that has 36 Billion US Dollar in the bank and is therefore the richest monarch in the world, while he heads a country that has the biggest disparity between rich and poor in all of Asia and where tens of millions of people make not enough money to get three decent mails must come down quicker than we can imagine.
A family so rich with so much influence cannot be at the right side of the divide. A man who does not keep word and let Darunee rot in jail while he told his subjects that anyone convicted would receive a pardon does not deserve our utmost respect.
The case of Harry Nicolaides is by the way a example of foreigners who believe that although half the Thai are spying on the other half believe that nobody is paying attention to them. I happen to know Harry and Harry was forewarned by the authorities not to publish those few lines, although he later said that he had no clue.
I personally think that it will take less than 10 years before the monarchy falls in line with all others in the Western World. People may criticize Thaksin but at least he has empowered the poor to think for themselves. The Ghost will not go back in the bottle, notwithstanding the fact that the Thai school system is developed in such a way that people do not learn to think for themselves.
The rapid removal of the Queen her picture in Izan and the North tells the story. The people have woken up. This government can try to bully Australia, the press and lose any website they want, they are on the receiving end of the stick. I bet that a majority of the country will celebrate the soon to be expected passing of the 90 year old Prem.
Even when the Thai Crown prince will take over the chances that the country moves forward are significantly greater than with Bhumipol on the throne. Bhumipol is another example of a King who cannot say goodbye. He should have groomed his son or his daughter and he should have called it a day after the last massacre in 1992 where he refused to do anything for many many days.
Thailand will change forever due to the fact that the poor have woken up. It is to the elite to decide what kind of transition it will be. Smooth or a very bloody one. The elite should realize they cannot hang on to power and the King is fading away. Their child like demonstrations of a few hundred people with the silly portrait of the king that come out to defend this government makes me believe that they have lost part of their faith. If it becomes bloody the army should realize that the problem in the deep South is a walk in the park and that their foot soldiers cannot be trusted they are melons. Green outside , red inside
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curiously, so far no any media (ABC including) mentions one more important point :
urgent need of Finance Ministry (Korn) to ensure that the B400bln “stimulus” package, so hard pushed him through Parliament, is been legislated and ALL the mega-projects and other subsidies, etc. (“cake sharing”) at least start BEFORE dissolution takes place. those Korn yesterday was quoted again, being adamant :
but of course !!!
very negative indeed, for …. pockets of “Democrats”, their coalition partners, army, 33 banks, all the bureaucrats (each Ministry except 2-3, as Education Min – thus the “pink mob” 
– has already submitted their requests to FinMin) and many other elite / amart ! 
funny that this being as one of the MAIN reasons of why Abhisit stubbornly refuses to dissolve Parliament now – hardly anybody mentions this side of a story, even though it is all in the mainstream media (just do search for Korn, burrow, stimulus – on Nation website)
elite simply can NOT allow Abhisit to give in to red-shirts ! because that would mean delays or even total cancellation of the stimulus – or even if it still goes ahead, then some other players will “share the cake”, in a different way.
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i want to thank ABC and this company for standing up to the bullying that the Thai king has done for so long.
it is not a joke when real people are sent to jail, including non-thai folk.
lese majiste laws are form the dark ages, and GOOD ON YOU ABC for standing up to it, despite the thai elites waving their arms in the air.
the little king crushes dissent. people dont say they may disagree, and for a generation and more, no one have ever questioned him.
now his chickes are coming to roost, and when a country has no idea about public discourse, things get messy. you can thank the little king for keeping his people quiet and uneducated. he is the ultimate walking example of lofty out of touch elite, with a massive public relations machine behind him.
dont be intimidated ABC. stand up for free speech.
looks like youre well on your way. i have spent a lot of time living in thailand, and can tell you– generations will thank you for breaking this taboo. they will learn to talk to each other openly again.
the king is a farce. dont wai the king.
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Mediawar #49
agreed, that reason plus
securing the succession from Anupong to red-hater Prayuth in military command, due in the military reshuffle in August/Sept
there is a theory that Anupong has been brought in charge of the removal of the redshirts so that if he fails he can be sacked making way immediately for Prayuth
then only the budget would need to be passed
and the elites would be ready to handle elections if they need to be called
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If you don’t have anything good to say while our country is in turmoils, for the better of our society or for the better of our two countries’ relationships, then just mind your own past as convicts or your rough treatments to the Aborigines.
If not for His Majesty The King to stop the plantations of opium in the north, your country might still now be flooded with drugs. Because of his guide, we managed to avoid being another communist countries and many Thai could have been killed just liked in cambodia. Your country might be flooded with many more refugees. Just look at the side he has contributed to the country.
We are in difficult time. Just say somethings nice.
What make you think you are any better than us!
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“What make you think you are any better than us!”
Cause they don’t have LM hanging over their heads? Seriously, how can you even stand by that draconian law? Is it even humane to lock someone up for LIFE for speaking out his mind? It’s just views for Christ sakes!
How would you feel if you offended a person’s dog, and got thrown in jail for it? It COULD HAPPEN in a LM scenario, TOTALLY.
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#51 There are some points in his favor, undoubtedly.
But now let’s think about the future. Nice words will not deter the wolves.
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This ABC program was aired when we just had a tragic event which caused 24 dead and 800 injured. The situation was still heated and our country was in difficulty.
Your program just had to be aired right on the 13th., our Songkran New Year celebration when we hoped for a small space to breath in. You could not wait a few days for us to settle that you had to pile such comments on top of what we already had.
If you still consider yourself as one of our friends, then you are WRONG, DEAD WRONG, because you, Aussie, have no sense of decent manners [which represent your historical background].
Your moral standards bear no civilized considerations therefore give you no right to deliver anybody any meaningful comments.
We have lived through good and bad and I don’t think you have, in our history, contributed much positives
ABC you are not welcomed to our beautiful country and you do not deserve to be in our generous kingdom. I can only suggest you close down your office in Bangkok permanently.
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@David Brown #50
you can just search Nation and see that few times Korn was quoted, like for example that “details of package bills will be known after Songrkan”, then in other place particular date was mentioned – Apr 27th. also, in another article it was mentioned that almost all the concerned have already submitted their requests to FinMin, except 2 ministries (one of them – Education) who requested that they need 2 more months. thus I guess – all those Chula ajarns were infuriated by red protests and gathered their own “pink shirt” mob.
also notice that so called “No color” / “colorless” (I prefer to call them chameleons – cleverly morphed yellows) are reportedly comprised from “civil workers”. what does that means ? again : all those bureaucrats and permanent workers in many gov. agencies and echelons of power, who practically NEVER or hardly so much change. all of them will get their own morsel from the big “cake”, when their ministries / agencies will get their share.
in fact, probably red-shirts or at least their leaders (and PT) also know that, and that’s why may be they do not mention it at all (someone may correct me if I’m wrong) – because they probably know that if their party wins elections, the “cake sharing” will be done differently then, with most yummy slices (as all those mega-projects) decided in their own favor and of their allies / partners. yes, may be some kamnans and puyais will also get their own share – although it would be not as big as, say of some Ministries or companies, but at least it would be better than if “Democrats” remain in position of who decides about “cake sharing”. because “Democrats” have repeatedly and openly expressed their opinion that gov. spending on peasants is WASTE of money ! (see some recent articles, as I recall about Korn slashing debt for 0.5 mln farmers)
so, there is no doubt that red-shirts are genuine in their desire to get a better opportunities, which is nothing wrong, and even can be placed into category of “pursuit of happiness” (as phrased in US Constitution). however are they fully aware that in reality the WHOLE system, down to the level of their local communities (those kamnans and puyais) leaves a very small chance that those tiny trickles which finally sip down through the whole multi-layered apparatus of bureaucracy from the “cake giver” (FinMin) will actually help them to improve their lives ?
I am not sure about that. even if they are – then perhaps the reason why they are still continuing their protests is because that SOMETHING is really better than nothing, which “Democrats” surely will only give them.
Consumerism is deeply ingrained in Thai peoples’ minds. anti-reds’ furious reaction to UDD protests are mainly based on their (urban well-to-do dwellers) being upset of NOT being able to CONSUME undisturbed as before that. also, I suspect deep within reds’ desire for a better opportunities is also based on and finally aimed at same thing: being able to CONSUME more and better things. the only difference is that elite & upper middle class exploits the concept of “self sufficiency”, imposing it on peasants – while themselves rather prefer to continue living their comfy lives.
it means : ONLY those who have enough money to be able to afford both PC with high-speed internet or often Blackberry like smart-phones AND even just enough time to spend on participating in all those on-line groups ! )
(Notice that Bkk Post mentioned : “No color” protesters are comprised from facebookers and other net social network members ! what does that means ?
with such an inner flaw (say, in the set of values – corrupted by Consumerism) it is hard to expect any serious change to happen in near future. it is like an endless vicious circle.
but of course I am fully aware that thousands or even millions of peasants’ lives get leveled in the grinder of the current system in Thailand, that’s why they to do something about it.
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Disregard what Jothestrong, decades of brainwashing got to his brain, fortunately for me that I escaped the cycle of evil (brainwashing from education, language, and media). As a Thai, I am in full support of freedom of speech and expression and ABC has done my country a great favor by airing the program.
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Just would like to say that as a Thai I think to the contrary to the previous poster, Jothestrong. What ABC did was a great service to Thailand and the rest of the World. People who watch it can judge for themselves what to believe. Unlike in Thailand where they block websites and TV with opposing views, and the free-to-air TV run government propaganda 24/7.
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Foreigners trying to voice their opinions about Thailand, I like to ask;
Can’t read, write or speak Thai, do they know Thailand and Thai people enough.
Do they really study the truth or have enough balanced informations [asking 3-4 people and what about the other 60 mil.] about what’s going on?
Good intentions, with responsibility?
How would they know that their theories or the group they support will make the country better, not worse.
So you think that our neighbouring countries; Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Filipines or even Singapore practice more decent democracy?
The Monarchy so far has demonstrated the ability in solving many crisis of conflicts.
We like to listen to those with sincerity but not those journalists who were hailed as braved in daring to tackle the taboo issue for their own egos.
We, Thai, have our long history, good or bad, we always find our way in the end. If you have nonsense negative suggestions or help, then it’s all none of your business.
I bet you take Harry Nicolaides’ case personally.
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Disregard what jothestrong?, very democratic. cause you only what to hear the agreements.
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Jothestrong#53 :
Re :
1) “Your program just had to be aired right on the 13th., our Songkran New Year celebration when we hoped for a small space to breath in. You could not wait a few days for us to settle that you had to pile such comments on top of what we already had.”
a)Unfortunately news (as distinct from propaganda) can not wait a week for a good story, by which time public interest may have died.
b)Australian media have long neglected facts about Thailand which should have been reported, to better inform Australia’s public.
2)”If you still consider yourself as one of our friends, then you are WRONG, DEAD WRONG, because you, Aussie, have no sense of decent manners [which represent your historical background].
Your moral standards bear no civilized considerations therefore give you no right to deliver anybody any meaningful comments.
What was “civilised” about Thai behaviour during the recent crackdown ?
3)”We have lived through good and bad and I don’t think you have, in our history, contributed much positives”.
Australia’s taxpayers have contributed billions of dollars in aid to Thailand over many, many decades, helping to lift Thailand from being one of the world’ poorest countries.
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Jothestrong – 53
”Your moral standards bear no civilized considerations therefore give you no right to deliver anybody any meaningful comments.”
Yes, moral standards, now that’s a good point.
Tell me how the moral standards of some (many?) in Thailand, for example, allow the extra-judicial killings and serious assaults by the the so-called police authorities to go on unchecked and unpunished.
Or, for that matter, would you care to explain how you square your imagined moral rectitude of the Thai people with the very real and endemic corruption that Thailand is (actually) known for?
I await your meaningful comments.
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ABC television, this is all about LM law. You take Harry Nicolaides’case personally and just wait to retaliate. Now we are in our weakness, you just take the opportunity. Mate, you are not a sport man. Harry was a political science lecturer in thailand and he must have known what he can or can’t’. He took his risk but didn’t want to admit. For that, you take on our beloved Monarch. You intend to show the clip of our prince to make people feel they should not be protected by LM. It’s my stupidity begging for your understanding.
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jothestrong – Your response is so typical of the usual mindless, brainwashed mantra we’ve come to expect from the Thai. You need to learn to take criticism if your country is ever to achieve democracy. Lashing out with the usual “foreigners don’t know Thailand; foreigners need to mind their own business” nonsense just doesn’t hold any water. Thailand’s cruel and unjust treatment of its poor will come under increasing scrutiny and condemnation by the international community. Please offer a reasoned argument as to why is shouldn’t. And spare me the brainwashed “Religion, King, State” nonsense.
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jothestrong
Please feel free to answer my questions posted at 59.
Furthermore, you mention in your most recent post (60) ”our weakness”, an interesting euphemism for 60 odd years of failed democracy.
Care to comment on that too?
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The Abhisit Government have committed the greatest les majeste against the King.
When they allowed their criminal supporters to wear his colours this act of total disrespect removed him from a position of political neutrality.
Should the Thai monarchy fail in the next generation it will be no fault of Thaksin or the Red Shirts.
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ABC television, this time, you’ve gone too far. That’s all I can say.
In political context, you might succeed in pushing us even closer towards China.
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jothestrong – 64
What do you mean by ”pushing us even closer towards China”?
Is there something you should be telling the ‘free people of free Thailand?’
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Good work ABC Foreign Correspondent!!!
Thai King is American born, raised and educated in USA and in Switzerland. Thai PM is British born , raised and educated in UK.
Both Thai King American and Thai PM British go screwing Thai nationalist leading 24 dead and 858 injured plus go screwing Cambodia Preah Vihear Temple at the border leading 3 clashes causing dead and injured for both nation and no one heard a word from USA & UK.
I’m so glad to see ABC Foreign Correspondent dare to speak up the truth. Please don’t let this Thai nation military rule go screwing the world!!!
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Hey! Don’t slag off Australia! We’re doing pretty well, mate … considering we are all descended from English and Irish convicts (especially our politicians).
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jothestrong
The Thai sold themselves to the chinese decades ago. They own you.
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Stuart #68 is right. The wealthiest “Thais” are either of noble blood distantly related to the royal family (thanks in part to earlier kings having hundreds of children with their multiple wives) or of Sino extraction, or a mix of both (eg, the man who’s lived in a hospital for more than half a year had a Chinese mother and a royal Siamese father). Notably, the pure-bred, noble-blood wealthy Thais number far fewer than the wealthy Sino-Thais.
Sure, Thailand has never been colonised by a European power. But China economically colonised Siam long, long ago. Weren’t they clever to do so? Life is so much more sabai-sabai down here than it is in the Middle Kingdom.
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I am sorry for what other Thai people like jothestrong say.
Many people here think differently now but dare not express themselves – especially the real Thais – the rural people. Sadly, many of the ruling (mostly Thai-Chinese) elite consider themselves educated, but know nothing because Daddy bought their degrees. Like Mai (32) who has little grammar, but has done well to learn the ‘F’ word – he clearly associates with the best kind of company and his opinion is eloquently expressed! I know what goes on because I am a university lecturer here. Most of the work students produce is plagiarised by email networking and they don’t even come to a lot of the lectures. At the end, enough baht under the table gets the piece of paper. Still, they have the temerity to call the rural people ‘buffaloes’. They openly ridicule and mock the Issan people who have struggled for generations to survive with a long line of indifferent government unbroken only by whom…? You guessed it – love him or hate him – THAKSIN!
I don’t dare comment on the monarchy of course – I value my freedom. But ‘Tony thai’ (31) says, “…would u still love them or judge if they are a criminal?” Clearly he infers something here and maybe should be locked up for acknowledging such a thing on the Internet…? Maybe someone who is safe in a free country like Australia would like to comment on the interpretation here?
Of course, if you Google some of the other members of our noble establishment, you will find it hard to get the real facts. Like what the Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep of Surat Thani, does in his spare time. Maybe it is not fair to single out an individual who is still in that exalted position, despite having to resign his seat in parliament for breaking electoral law…
Sorry, I digressed a little. What was the topic – informed and researched opinion from my fellow-Thais? Or about the nice, smiling, gentle Thai characteristics that are exhibited in their posts? For my part, congratulations to Australia for maintaining an open media!
Whether or not our Feudal system collapses, I hope you will still visit our beautiful country and enjoy the majority of nice people here!
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Dear my fellow Thais,
Brothers red-shirt, I believe there are a few fractions in your group
- Dear farmers and villagers who have genuinely come for good causes complaining about your living conditions. We apologize if we have long neglected your voices. This government is implementing few programs; free education up to 12 yr. old, pensions for all retirees, pensions for all handicaps, finding ways in solving illegal debts and legal debts in the banks, providing free medical treatments up to heart by-pass surgeries and dental treatments. They also set up community funds, carrier-training, upgrade roads, facilities and other measures to address your problems. I know it’s not enough but only if you give them times. There are also almost 2 millions workers from our neighboring countries in our country who have contributed and are entitle to basic social welfare including same medical services. If our country is so bad, we should not have attracted so many friends from abroad. Kindly be a little patient.
-Friends who believe in different political system, particularly in communist system. I like to point out that if the system is good, our neighboring countries would have faired better than us by now. Not meaning to be unkind.
-Friends who fervor Mr. Thaksin. He is a businessman. When he became a politician, he still practiced and run the country like a business set-up, part for self interests, finding legal lope-holes and changing laws to support his business. He would go about telling international community that he is always right but the country. If only you set up the rally without his financial supports?
Pro-communist and pro-Thaksin, Stop your free rides with the farmers.
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Dear respected Australians,
If I have offended you in my previous comments, I apologize and am very sorry.
ABC television, I protest that you have not been fair on the LM law issue. You would not drink alcohol in Arab countries [ but you can do so in Australia] and you would not insult our royals in our country.
That you interviewed few Thai who committed such mistakes expressing your disagreement, [one even theatened his majesty's life in public] without interview the majoritys’ views. You even showed just our prince’s clip without mentioning other positive royal contributions to support your disagreement on LM law.
For that, you have deeply insulted our whole country.
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jothestrong plagiarizes others – Prawase, for example – and then implies that all “Arab” countries ban the drinking of alcohol and that when they do, one can go to jail for several years for doing so. I can’t help thinking the military internet rooms are at work.
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jothestrong
You claim to speak on behalf of an awful lot of people. Are you sure that’s what they really think? Or just wishful thinking on your part.
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I am Thai and very frustrated. There are so much I need to express but it’s pretty late at night and I’m so tired being so depressed seeing that many people submit themselves to be brainwashed and won’t try to get out of it (or probably are too afraid to get out of it?) Claiming that they’re so “high educate” who look down on “uneducate people”, they go down on their knees accepting that, as told, they should control their speech, their actions (that I understand as I have to as well, shame on me but like a previous poster, I value my freedom), but what I don’t understand is that they allow themselves to be thought controlled. How on earth those who claim to be high-educated people, at least more than “25 million” people, don’t even know how to read between the lines or learn to be skeptical. It’s just a waste of time trying to reason with these “high-educated” people because they’re so familiar with not thinking, believing in whatever they’re told (gods and goddesses, fairly tales). Good PR by royalists, BTW. Sorry for this blunt finish. I need to sleep.
One more thing, jothestrong definitely didn’t talk on my behalf.
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frustrated thai – 79
I work with a number of (educated) thai colleagues who express the very same sentiments as you. There is a very real feeling among them that things are not right in Thailand for a number of very real reaons.
These include the lesse majeste laws, widespread corruption, the ineptitude of the police and army, a weak legal system,an extremely poor education system etc. etc.
Commentators and posters on this blog have often pointed to these reasons, but beyond that, there is little or nothing that we can do to change the current status quo. Many of us here are foreigners in your country, so, simply put, it’s not our business.
We, like you, are impotent observers, although we seem to be able to say what we think.
I wish Thai people would protest on the streets about the real issues, that are the root causes of this country’s problems, but they don’t.
Fear is a powerful motivator not to do something we know to be right.
Don’t feel disheartened – things must and will change.
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frustrated thai – Totally agreed with you, I have so much problem talking to my friends, even among some red aligned one who also got degree from oversea.
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Jothestrong: “You would not drink alcohol in Arab countries.”
If you’re a Buddhist, you should not drink in ANY country. As an Arab you may or not be able to drink in your own country; as a foreigner, many Arab countries turn a blind eye.
This misses the point: the ABC television program was banned from broadcast abroad (and this ban was rigorously enforced). The question is this: should Australians living in Australia be allowed to watch material that would be subject to lèse majesté laws in Thailand? I think it’s fair to also consider the sensibilities of Thais living in Australia but then they could also simple turn off their TV (which might be a good idea in ANY country).
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John H 80
“the ineptitude of the police and army”
I hope they never become “ept”, united and organised.
Then there would be a second “Myanmar” or North Korea.
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Bh. V. // Apr 25, 2010 at 8:32 am
To use the Socratic question again:
should Australians living in Australia be allowed to watch material that would be subject to lèse majesté laws in Thailand?
should Australians living in Australia be allowed to watch material that would be subject to laws in Burma/Iran/N.Korea/Zimbabwe/Australia
Does the answer change?
The issue IS the Orwellian, usage, interpretation and application of the law.
Since (treading- oh- so- carefully now) certain highly respected institutions have also repeatedly questioned it. (I think for the same reasons)
It is now obviously a blunt political instrument masquerading as a device for promoting social harmony. It is used ad-hoc by rival politicians and like Dr Johnsons epigram on patrotism-”the last refuge of a scoundrel” (Think Sondhi, Thaksin, Ahmed Akbar and any number of others).
In my opinion it is an unjust, unfair, socially and morally repellent instrument. It’s application corrodes the institution it is alleged to protect. Interestingly someone like the current PM would probably agree with all the above but still call it a necessity!
We have to ask both why? and what is “National Security”?
Sadly I think it’s use will become even more prevalent in the uncertain future before the nation when the current government is fondly remembered for it’s charm and moderation. A nation thus cowed into subservience like this is open to oppression by any future enclave of power.
Perhaps this is why it is so eagerly contested?
Winner take all?
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Turn the clock back a few hundred years for a different outcome. Say Australia was not colonized by the English. The Aborigines were left to there own devices….. En English girl moves to what is now Sydney and starts a school for the Aboriginal elders and there children. Some Chinese and Indians come down and set up stores and farm some rice. Now move the clock back to the twenty first century. The”could have been” version of 21st century Australia: There is fighting between the established leadership aborigines and the opportunistic new money aborigines who supported America in their waring efforts, profiting from the contracts. The massive population has to be kept in the dark to keep them working and breeding. Most of the hundred million population earn $5 a day and work on farms or sweat shops/prostitution patronized by the rich Countries of Europe and North america
The answer to this alternative version of Australia: The old leadership will have to share with the new enterprising breed of leaders. Technology -that is the revolution of the twenty first century can be promoted to the masses so that they can see that Environmentally disastrous consumption- as rampant in west- is not sustainable and therefor not fashionable. With this new freedom of information they will see that the west was developed by people who had to battle harsh winters every year. Over many thousands of years they became very hard working organized people -so as to survive the harsh environment. This promoted advanced lifestyles that never eventuated (and are unnecessary)in warmer year round mild climates
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