New Mandala

72 responses so far ↓

• 1 Someone else // May 22, 2010 at 11:39 am

  I’ll take the easy one:

  What next for General Anupong?

  He retires with his ill gotten loot. This has actually all worked out reasonably well for him.

  A much more interesting question would be who has more money, Anupong or Thaksin, but I doubt we’ll ever know the answer to that.

  Quality comment or not? 32  7

• 2 Charles Edward Frith // May 22, 2010 at 11:58 am

  What next for education? Nothing. Out of sight out of mind.

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 46  1

• 3 Stuart Goddard // May 22, 2010 at 1:53 pm

  The only sensible thing is to continue with the ‘democratisation’ of Thailand.

  The first thing necessary in deciding to get something better, is to recognise that what you have isn’t good enough.

  It will take 3 generations to remove the culture of greng-jai, patronage and corruption from Thailand, at least to the level one normally finds in the west. This needs to be recognised.

  It will take removal or retraining of 80% of teachers in Thailand because they are largely incompetent to teach.

  It will take corrupt people to see the inside of a jail.

  It will take the removal of Abhisist and everyone connected with his government because he/they are irredeemably tainted. I doubt Abhisit will be in power for 3 months more and I strongly suspect he will be dead by the end of the year. Live by the sword…

  Unfortunately, it will take the king to die and quickly, probably not to be replaced with a monarch. The monarchy is tainted by their significant part in building the Thailand we see today. it is surely ironic than in attempting to carve out a place in history for himself, this king has probably destroyed any chance of the monarchy surviving in Thailand.

  And lastly, it will take the rise of a charismatic and honest person to lead Thailand through the valley of the shadow of death. And enough people on his.her side to make a sustained recovery possible

  Frankly, given the short attention-span of Thais and their inherent lack of respect for the rule of law (largely the result of observing that the law only serves a small group in society, and is negotiable depending upon who you are and who you know), I don’t think the Thais can do it. Really I just don’t think they are up to the job, the will isn’t there, the dedication isn’t there and the motivation isn’t there.

  I fear Thailand is on its way back in time. I frankly doubt that Thailand will even exist in 20 years, but certainly as an economic force, it will probably be the same as Madagascar or Zimbabwe are now. And that’s before we consider what Chinese aspirations for the only non-socialist state on its borders.

  Hot debate. What do you think? Quality comment or not? 63  44

• 4 SmithJones // May 22, 2010 at 2:44 pm

  I was amazed today, the Bangkok Post actually did an article that was not brazenly pro-government biased and anti-red.

  Here is the link

  http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/178768/troubling-questions-after-operation-ratchaprasong

  Whatever next, Yellow ASTV to be taken off air due to the 90% of lies it spews out ?

  I would imagine the Bangkok Post might get into trouble reporting something unbiased like this (sic).

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 60  6

• 5 Simon // May 22, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  Morning Stuart

  Putting down Thai people again? Today we learn they have short attention spans, their teachers are incompetent and Thailand needs to be westernised. How colonial of you.

  It amuses me that you look for the rise of a charismatic and honest person on one hand, and condemn Abhisit with the other.

  Hot debate. What do you think? Quality comment or not? 29  46

• 6 David Brown // May 22, 2010 at 4:47 pm

  What next for the Thai military?

  I think this is the key to the future of Thailand.

  From the 1940′s the military has been the predominant tool for individuals and business families to secure their power. Now the military has grown so that like an octopus it contains the individuals and the businesses that are Thailand.

  With 700 generals, retired and active military are entrenched in every aspect of legal and illegal business and hold the reins of power in every aspect of Thai society.

  The military calls the shots, and noone can hold them accountable for any of those shots.

  The military cause the divisions in Thai society, in the south, rich and poor, lowland and hilltribes, refugees, legal and illegal immigration, interference in the operation of the Thai Police and of course all aspects of the political process including the monarchy.

  To democratise Thailand it is sufficient and necessary to neuter the retired and active generals.

  Without the existence of the military in Thai society other problems would become the same as those in any society and amenable to normal political, social and policing solutions.

  So, whats next for the Thai military? And how will it be achieved?

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 50  2

• 7 Dave Abbott // May 22, 2010 at 5:13 pm

  Interesting Bangkok Post article linked in the post by SmithJones – completely silent on the old man who is most responsible for all of this and according to an article in Asia Times http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE19Ae01.html forbade any amnesty for Thaksin.

  Quality comment or not? 13  0

• 8 Nuomi // May 22, 2010 at 5:29 pm

  I think this thread should be split into two separate threads.

  1) What is realistically the future direction of the various factions in Thailand and how that might impact Thailand’s development as a democracy or as a country in the foreseeable future.

  2) Want can those who really want democracy for Thailand do to help development of democracy in Thailand.

  Even then, I feel 1) is still too broad-based.

  Personally, I am more interested in a realistic and practical discussion of 2).

  Quality comment or not? 16  0

• 9 JohnH // May 22, 2010 at 5:45 pm

  Well, here’s another helpful and concrete contribution to the current plight…

  Poll: People feel sad on Thais’ conflict
  Published: 22/05/2010 at 11:28 AM
  Online news: Local News

  http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178811/poll-people-feel-sad-on-thais-conflict

  Nearly all respondents (96.6 per cent) said they were very said to see that Thai people do not love each other anymore, according to Abac poll’s results released on Saturday.

  Assumption University’s Abac poll sought for opinion from 1,185 households in 17 provinces on May 21.

  According to the pollster, 97.8 per cent of the respondents were concerned about the low income people who have become jobless caused by political violence, while 74.5 per cent of them supported the five-point reconciliation road map proposed by the prime minister.

  Sad eh? Not furious, not distraught, not…whatever.

  Stuart Goddard – you are completely right on all points. Thailand has to wake up to the real world.

  Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society. Or any other time for that matter.

  Start by looking in the mirror and thinking, really thinking, about the deceitful concept of greng jai, and how this dangerous and destructive evil pervades all levels of society from cradle to the grave.

  Quality comment or not? 31  2

• 10 Tinya W // May 22, 2010 at 7:50 pm

  I would like to suggest another long-term question: What next for Thailands party system?

  Quality comment or not? 8  0

• 11 Ricky Ward // May 22, 2010 at 8:29 pm

  Another question:

  # What’s next for Thailand’s role in the Climate Catastrophe debate and the IPCC ?

  Trying to work seriously on environmental issues here is incredibly frustrating because of everybody’s preoccupation with the crisis of government.
  Last year I tried to ask for support from the State Railway’s Union but could not get near them as I was told they were preoccupied with politics.

  Also may I suggest NM opens threads on various What Next topics so we can have a focussed debate and perhaps try to combine a number.

  Quality comment or not? 6  12

• 12 r robin // May 22, 2010 at 9:41 pm

  What next for former prime minister Thaksin
  Give him back his money on condition he stays out of politics.
  His corruption has never been proved in open court. I know the court decided to take his money but that does not prove anything. The only thing he has been found guilty of after nearly four years is signing a legal document for his wife. It has never been explained why this was illegal.
  Despite this and considering his terrible record on other things. He should stay out of politics for the good of the country. He has had his turn, its time to clear the field for new people.

  Quality comment or not? 24  14

• 13 Jit // May 22, 2010 at 10:39 pm

  Picking up on Ricky Ward’s comment…..

  What next for the Map Tha Put case?

  For me this has been an incredible test of Thai democracy – the ability of citizens to take big business to court for extreme environmental and health abuses and to hold the state accountable for a complete failure in applying planning standards, the independence of the courts, the ability of the government to resist pressure from business interests and foreign governments not to interfere with a court decision – and ultimately the ability of Thai civil society to help identify a way to resolve a conflict that has huge implications.

  Democracy is not just about elections…….

  Quality comment or not? 15  0

• 14 Jit // May 22, 2010 at 10:50 pm

  What next?

  Surely not Chalerm as PM.

  Reuters reports…
  6:05pm: Opposition Pheu Thai Party announced that it plans to file a motion in parliament on Monday for impeaching Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and four Cabinet ministers, while the party will also put forth Police Captain Chalerm Yubamrung as its candidate for filling any vacant premiership.

  Obviously concerns about double standards in the Thai legal system no longer bothering PTP.

  Well at least we see them for what they are

  Quality comment or not? 15  0

• 15 Srithanonchai // May 22, 2010 at 10:52 pm

  One might add, “What next for Chinese-Thai versus Thai-Thai relations?” After all, this conflict had much to do with the Bangkok middle-class/establishment Chinese-Thai rejecting the “rural hordes” of Thai-Thais. That is, the conflict had a strong ethnic, cultural, and life-style component.

  Quality comment or not? 23  1

• 16 David R // May 22, 2010 at 10:52 pm

  I think the red shirt movement needs to actively distance itself from its more violent and extreme elements. Ensuring that the human rights of all red shirts are respected is important. Those who have only engaged in peaceful protest should be protected by the law, but those who have engaged in violence should be punished. There needs to be a fair legal process to determine this.

  I don’t think the red shirts should be launching any more mass protests in Bangkok in the short term. They really should go back to the provinces and work at the grassroots level to build up their organisation in a democratic way and engage in education and debate about democracy.

  Quality comment or not? 20  23

• 17 Ron // May 22, 2010 at 10:56 pm

  Ron’s “Roadmap” Leads to the “Right”

  My prediction is a neo-con coup at some point in the next year or so – a hard swing to the ultra-right. Probably bloodless initially – since the idea would be just eliminate the middle-man (Abhisit) and get on with things without the need for any further insincere promises and niceties. Maybe the yellow’s will start some urban shady attacks to outrage but blame will be pinned on the reds – then the army steps in to ‘crush the terrorist-left-insurgency’.

  Anyone who thinks that the network Amartaya system is on shaky ground due to upcoming natural events is mistaken. Equally so, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of any kind of particpatory democratic society emerging from Abhisit’s ‘roadmap’. As Ji has said before, the complete absence of a real mobilizing grassroots peoples’ party is what allows the Amartya to continue to play the game by its rules and win each time. When the army and their backers are flipping the coin – it’s heads they win – tails you lose every time!

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 35  1

• 18 JBW // May 22, 2010 at 11:23 pm

  Thailand will evolve despite and because of its previous political and natural crises, including bird flu and the tsunami. I have lived part of every year in Thailand for over a quarter of a century and it continues to build. As sad as the destruction to the downtown of one of the most vibrant cities in the world, Thailand still has other great shopping centres, the best food at the lowest prices anywhere in the world and an excellent price-quality ratio. Hotels will continue to be packed and tourists will seek out bargains among the debris.

  Elections will be held within a year or so, new people will come to power, other crises will unfold over time, hopefully less dramatic.

  As sad as this situation has been, it will inevitably lead to progress along the same lines as the present. There will not be an abrupt break with tradition.

  There will however be a bigger change in the works come the royal transition, whenever that occurs.

  Quality comment or not? 8  4

• 19 JohnH // May 23, 2010 at 12:05 am

  Before we get ahead of ourselves, let’s just touch base with reality.

  PBS: Peau Thai has just nominated Chalerm as the next prime minister, should Abhisit be forced to step down. It’s looks like they want a debate and censure over the recent events.

  The latter is absolutely essentential, but Chalerm…

  The wish list is indeed commendable and obviously worthy of continuing discussion on NM, but let’s not forget where we are and the true nature of politics inThailand.

  Chalerm, Chavalit, Banharn et al have all been conspiciously silent this last week, at least in public.

  I don’t know what has been going on in private, but I’m willing to bet with these characters involved it won’t be good for Thailand and its people.

  Quality comment or not? 24  0

• 20 sopranz // May 23, 2010 at 1:39 am

  just got back from Udon Thani, i went up with the free train for red shirts from Ratchaprasong. It seems from the many conversation that nobody among them thinks that this is going to end confrontation in any way. But each group among them seem to have different proposals for the future of the struggle and different techniques. What is sure is that Isaan, or at least Udon, is a very hot place now. I had the most openly revolutionary conversation i have ever had in Thailand. Seeing five farmers discussing historically about the evolution of the role of the monarchy and the army since the 70s and talking about the need for keeping the struggle in an autonomous way without leaders who order them around was quite amazing. It is very hard to say where this is going but we are definitely a long way from the accusations of being a “rented mob” and the “Isaan people” as uneducated followers.

  I have just posted about the two days before i went to Isaan, soon i will post about the last day and a half up there.

  sopranz.blogspot.com

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 71  1

• 21 Nok // May 23, 2010 at 1:52 am

  I would like to dedicate this video clip to most foreign commentaters on this website.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80

  Quality comment or not? 5  26

• 22 u_chemp // May 23, 2010 at 2:05 am

  What’s next for Thailand:
  here below some thoughts which seem to have been censured in Thailand as “dangerous” but have been published by today’s Sydney Morning Herald

  http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/monarchy-at-a-turning-point-20100521-w1pb.html

  Quality comment or not? 9  0

• 23 KenC // May 23, 2010 at 3:12 am

  Q: What next for memories of political violence and social conflict?

  Ten years from now, twenty years from now, these memories will be remembered several groups of people and will be lost amongst the most. These memories will be inserted in primary school / secondary school history textbooks (authorised by The Ministry of Education) with the only purpose – to remember something and forget the rest. This is similar to what happen to the memories of the “Boworndej Rebellion” (1934), “14 Oct 1973 Student Uprising”, “6 Oct 1976 Massacre at Thammasat University (and its aftermath)” and “Dark May 1992.” For me, what’s very pathetic is that history repeats itself, always.

  Quality comment or not? 12  1

• 24 G. Hopper // May 23, 2010 at 3:20 am

  According to face book society in Thailand : Next step for Thai government is to control CNN! …Watch out CNN! Abhisit is going to get ya.

  Quality comment or not? 15  3

• 25 Chalie // May 23, 2010 at 3:27 am

  I think it is imperative that the role and existence of the Royal Family, from individually the King to the entire monarchy system and its influence, goes hand in hand with the action of the military.

  If some form of that relationship exists, does the general population of Thailand see that? From the rural workers to the city dwellers (and not just bangkok residents).

  Quality comment or not? 11  0

• 26 only Thai people // May 23, 2010 at 4:04 am

  refer to the question my answer is
  1.What next for the Thai military?
  Ans. absolute power is thai army target.
  2.What next for the Democrat Party?
  A. Every Democrat want < You Got it.
  3.What next for lese majeste prosecutions?
  ANS: No comment.
  4.What next for Thailand’s education system?
  Ans: More Bachelor Drgree but no Quality
  5. What next for the privy council?
  ANS: lack of reliable in Thai People
  6.What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence?
  Ans: sunk in a pain and neglec from This governmaent and Reveange after
  7.What next for former Prime Minister Thaksin?
  Ans: Everything can happen inThailand , The wrong man is Mr. Taksin ( Easy to solve a problem in Thailand ) He is a sin Goats in Thailand )
  8.What next for General Anupong?
  Ans : Retire on 30 SEP and Nothing quillty
  9. What next for Issan?
  Ans: High society and Middle class in Thailand blame Issan people is lack of Knowledge and need some a little money from local Politician and Taksin ( Sad Movie for almost This people coz They are a nice people )
  10. What next for Thai foreign policy?
  Ans: Catch Taksin everywhere in the world if i can ( Economy i don"t care , national relatioship i don' t interest becacuse i need Taksin so much ) He is bad guy and terrorism ( In case of Thai government and hi -so class , Thai army Leader view s but not all Thai People )
  10.What next for Newin Chidchob?
  Ans : Everything i do i do is for you ( Power )
  11. What next for the Red shirt “hardliners”?
  Ans: Jail only ( More Than 10 years)
  12.What next for academic research about Thailand?
  Ans : Hang on The shelves but No Action
  13.What next for the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations?
  Ans : Gone with the wind and no guilty
  14.What next for the Thai media?
  Ans: Most of them choose Yellow shirts and no Ethics , no profestional in carreer.

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 38  2

• 27 michael // May 23, 2010 at 5:35 am

  Forget the idiotic knee-jerk reaction of Simon #5; Stuart Goddard #3 is right on the mark, particularly in his comments about education. Actually, I would say, having visited well over 100 educational institutions of all levels from Anuban (kindergarten) to tertiary, and taught at every level, through to post-grad (as I have done in Australia, including extensive teacher-training), that his assertion that ” It will take removal or retraining of 80% of teachers in Thailand because they are largely incompetent to teach,” is rather on the conservative side. I would say that all Thai teachers should be given the option of early retirement or retraining. And salaries should be raised to realistic & attractive levels.

  As to who should do the training, that is problematic; teacher-training institutions do not have sufficient competently trained staff. (And where they do have staff who are capable, these people are usually ham-strung by cultural restraints, e.g. Kreng jai.) In order to get them, scholarships to overseas institutions would be necessary. Further, the staff at these institutions would need to be thoroughly briefed about the existing education culture in Thailand, so that they could assist in destroying the elements within it which are counter-productive.

  A further problem is the enormous corruption within the Ministry of Education. There is no point in budgeting vast sums of money for retraining if 40% of the budget is going to disappear, or in bringing in an exam system for the trainees if they can buy pass-marks.

  Perhaps a complete overhauling of Education could be funded by cutting the military budget & lowering the number of military personnel, not only the absurd number of generals, but all levels. Does a country that has only minimal real threats from outside really need a huge elaborately equipped army? What has the military done in living memory, except slaughter Thai citizens and engage in other criminal activities?

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 39  5

• 28 Roger // May 23, 2010 at 12:12 pm

  I wholeheartedly agree with michael. My daughter is currently in form 5 at “that” (the high school to go to) in Nontharburi.
  Only one teacher (Thai French teacher) inspires her to try harder, the rest are there because they were appointed by the education department.
  The so-called head English teacher (Thai)(International program)(appointed by the education department) cannot even speak English properly, let alone write it. The English exams she composes are written in Thailish and she refuses to heed the words of the “farang” English teachers and has threatened them with dismissal for interfering in the Thai education system.
  The whole system is morally and ethically bankrupt with parents being openly asked for “tea money”. Students are treated like a soccer match; they being the players and the teachers the referees and of course the parents as the paying supporters. And pay they do as yellow and red cards are passed out willy-nilly for the slightest infraction against the childish rules. (Haircuts, dress, missing the morning 45 minutes of assembly where they are lectured on morals and ethics; it is never about education or their grades).
  It is no longer about educating the children, it is about power, who has it and who doesn’t. It’s about intimidation and the class system, and it reeks of government and education ministry propaganda.
  On a final disparaging note, there was a video, that all the students had on there cell phones; it showed a young form 2 Thai girl dressed in girl guide uniform being raped by a boy in boy scout uniform and being held by two other girls in guide uniform. No action has ever been taken.
  I am disgusted with the Thai education system.
  Roger

  Quality comment or not? 29  2

• 29 Macca // May 23, 2010 at 1:00 pm

  To David R

  ‘They really should go back to the provinces and work at the grassroots level to build up their organisation in a democratic way and engage in education and debate about democracy.

  OMG I can’t believe what I am reading. If you know anything at all about education in Thailand, contrast the educational opportunities of the elite who are able to send their children to International schools against the village school in Issan. Did you know that it is not uncommon in some village schools to have up to 60 in a class and the teacher stands at the front with a megaphone. I know of at least one international school where, as the children arrived in their Jag’s and Merc’s, the expectation was that the maids would carry the poor little darling’s bags up to their classrooms. Thankfully this practise was stopped after a while.
  Expecting these people to go back upcountry and through diligent education etc. bring about social change is like me telling you to go and read a book about cancer so you can then cure yourself.

  Quality comment or not? 17  3

• 30 Daniel Wolf // May 23, 2010 at 3:29 pm

  -Stuart_

  “It will take 3 generations to remove the culture of greng-jai, patronage and corruption from Thailand, at least to the level one normally finds in the west.”

  Indeed the Thais have some growing up to do when it comes to efficient venality.

  In the west, institutionalized corruption is much superior to the more straightforward and , lets face it, more affordable, corruption that exists in Thailand.

  Just as an example – being forced to pay insurance premiums on automobile policies that you can never collect on, is corruption on a much higher level than just slipping a few baht to a policeman.

  Absolutely the dismantling of an entire health care system and replacing it with chaos is a work of great sophistication. In the west we are so lucky to be managed by such consummate artists in political rape. There should be awards for this type of artistry.

  Someday they will understand that the skill required to convince the people that handing out huge sums of free money to corporations is a good thing for them personally. If you can accomplish that…. you can do anything.

  Definitely the Thais have some growing up to do.

  Quality comment or not? 12  11

• 31 What’s next for Thailand? « The Oriental Hotel // May 23, 2010 at 3:51 pm

  [...] What will happen now? The question of this post has been raised by that excellent website, New Mandala, that can be accessed through this blog. And this is my personal vision of the issue. (I have never [...]

  Quality comment or not? 0  3

• 32 Iker Izquierdo // May 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm

  Here my humble opinion.

  http://theorientalhotel.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/whats-next-for-thailand/

  Quality comment or not? 3  0

• 33 Pharris // May 23, 2010 at 5:29 pm

  An uncertain path awaits Thailand. Recent developments are only but a chord in a symphony of events. Today’s players will be yesterday’s history a few years from now. What will remain is the discord for the next set of players to sort out.

  It is abundantly clear that the old ways are no longer enough to accommodate all the voices of a changing Thai society. Those who have not gained their fair share of Thailand’s economic prosperity in the last few decades are beginning to clamor for their portion. And those who have amassed great wealth and power are going to challenge any threat to their economic and political dominance. The question for Thailand is whether these competing forces can iron out their differences in the political arena or will they fight it out with each other in the streets? Recent history points to the latter but the future may hold something entirely different.

  Is Thai democracy mature enough where politics can be a means to solve the differences within society? It is telling that one of the Red Shirts’ main demands is for early elections. That is some indication that they have faith in electoral results. They’ve seen it worked in previous elections (albeit only to be overturned by a coup) and still looked to the political process to address differences this time around. That’s surely a sign of maturity. And Abhisit’s camp showed they were willing to accommodate, an equally good sign for democracy. Yet, each time Thailand show signs of democratic maturation, something happens to undermine the whole process. This trend will continue for the near future.

  So what then can Thais and interested foreign observers hope for? In the long term, we should all hope that Thailand becomes a vibrant democracy. But until then, we should all hope that factions within Thai society will find PEACEFUL solutions to their problems. The differences are deep and various but they are not insurmountable.

  THE REDS
  Recent events have highlighted the Red’s biggest failures: 1) a failure of leadership and 2) a failure of organization. If you were to ask who speaks for the Red, you will get different answers depending on whom you ask. Sopranz highlighted this in his comment above. There is not one Red Shirt movement; there appears to be multitudes of them, each with its own proposal and leader (and even their own radio stations). Even if many Red Shirts consider the Peua Thai Party to be their political arm (a very big IF), the PTP itself can’t seem to agree on what should be its future course. Strong leadership is sorely missing among the Reds.

  As for organization, the Reds showed seemingly wonderful organization in bringing tens of thousands of protesters to occupy Bangkok for over two months. Yet when you look underneath, what you’ll probably find is that most of that organization came from the Thaksin machinery and money. Who paid for the buses? Who paid for the posters, the soundstage, and the radio stations? Who paid for the security? I don’t know why those heroic ‘citizen journalists’ who reported on the street fighting during the protests never asked the Reds these simple questions. If the Red movement really want to maintain their deal with Thaksin, I don’t think they can say with a straight face they are a peaceful movement. These protests have shown that the Reds will have to find an alternative to organize them and fund them if they are not to be co-opted by Thaksin and his cronies.

  ABHISIT
  He is history and he knows it. The only thing he has to cling to is his legacy and any chance of affecting future politics from the sidelines. Why propose a reconciliation plan when your own party seems to oppose it? Why follow through the reconciliation plan as he appears to be doing now when you’ve already crushed the opposition? It’s hard to explain his actions. Maybe he wants to seen as an honest broker for future negotiations? That’s laughable to many Red Shirters right now. We’ll see.

  THE YELLOWS
  Justice have never visited those who shut down the airport and took similar disruptive actions a few years back. It’s not surprising since they are the powers that be. Yellow Shirts have yet to recognize Thailand has changed and they need to be fair. They don’t have a strong need for leadership and organization because as the status quo, they control the levers of power. They will soon have to show their prowess as a political movement however will when they will be the people out of power and can’t rely on the military to put them back in. What goes around, comes around, and they better be prepared.

  THE MILITARY
  They have been surprisingly measured in their response to these protests. They could have slaughtered the protesters but they didn’t. The rules of engagement they announced were quite strict and well within reasonable standards. It remains to be seen if the measured response is sign of division with the ranks or just Anupong’s personal style or institutional maturity. It will be interesting to see if the military will react to future unrest in the same manner under the new chief. Whatever the case, the military will remain the ultimate arbiter of political disputes in the near future. The question for them is whether they can mature to the point where they can maintain objectivity and obey their civilian commanders even in times of crisis. The police are hopeless and useless. Enough said.

  THE MONARCHY
  Most Thais are Bhumibolists and not royalists. That’s the very astute observation from another NM post. Even royalists can’t fathom remaining loyal to the crown prince yet they have absolute love for the King. The monarchy will have to find its proper place in Thai politics and it will not be the outsized role it played during the King’s reign. These are smart and calculating people though and if anyone is to figure out how to play the process well, I’d bet my money on them.

  Quality comment or not? 21  9

• 34 JohnH // May 23, 2010 at 5:43 pm

  Daniel Wolf –

  In the west you can avoid paying for vehicle insurance, and still drive – there are ways around this – know what I mean gov.?

  But in Thailand, it would be exceedingly difficult for the average street vendor, for example, to avoid paying off the local boys in brown, nak leng, market inspectors etc. etc.

  Well I guess they could refuse, but then what? Oh, no work, income, food on the table etc. etc. Or even worse. Know what I mean gov.?

  Regarding the health care system – I guess you mean the NHS – it’s the best there is. Try working in it. I did, and for all its faults, and there are many, it beats the standard of health care – state and private – in Thailand, hands down.

  Forget what the politicians try to do; the staff, most of them at least, do a great job. Really.

  Quality comment or not? 7  0

• 35 Pharris // May 23, 2010 at 5:57 pm

  Stuart:

  I find your lazy comments about Thais to be crass and disrespectful, bordering on colonial racism. It’s as if I was reading Rudyard Kipling describing the people of the Punjab region back in the 1800s. These uncivilized natives, they don’t know what’s good for them. What do they call an ugly American in Oz? A kangaroo? That’s you, mate.

  Quality comment or not? 2  9

• 36 sopranz // May 23, 2010 at 6:35 pm

  Maybe a good way to understand and try to grasp what’s next for the red shirts people is looking and what is going on now, how people are processing grievances and what has happened in the last months. it is a critical process that need to be followed more. Unfortunately i could spend only two days in Udon but it many ways i feel it is the right place to understand what is happening, at least as far as the protesters.

  My report of the long trip in train with the red shirts is on my blog sopranz.blogspot.com, i don’t want to fill this board with long description people may be not interested in.

  Quality comment or not? 0  0

• 37 sopranz // May 23, 2010 at 6:38 pm

  We are otherwise running the risk or recreating the state-based narration of history in which only “puu glai” make history and everybody else just becomes the clay for it.

  Quality comment or not? 3  0

• 38 Stuart Goddard // May 23, 2010 at 8:14 pm

  @PHarris:

  “Stuart:

  I find your lazy comments about Thais to be crass and disrespectful, bordering on colonial racism. It’s as if I was reading Rudyard Kipling describing the people of the Punjab region back in the 1800s. These uncivilized natives, they don’t know what’s good for them. What do they call an ugly American in Oz? A kangaroo? That’s you, mate.”

  Well, you’ve pointed out the political correctness (as you see it) failing in my post, and you’ve resorted to ad-hominem abuse which is never encouraging.

  What is conspicuously absent is any kind of substance to show my comments are not correct and fair. probably because they are both correct and fair, even if you don’t think they should be.

  Political correctness is such fun. The substance you have when you don’t have any substance; it is usually the preserve of those unable to have an objective discussion.

  Quality comment or not? 12  0

• 39 David Brown // May 23, 2010 at 8:17 pm

  many people wonder how the redshirts fund their activities

  lets just explore this a little:

  someone a couple of months ago said that after the travelling seminars around the country there were 1.5M red members @50Baht each

  probably lot more members now (especially after the military action)

  plus heaps of donations, we were at the rally at Rajamangala Stadium 2 years ago and joined many people in donating, there were lots of notes up to 1oooBaht in the box which was emptied every couple of hours

  and a very indirectly related story:

  about 10 years ago we went to the funeral of Ajahn Chah, a revered monk near Ubon

  we helped in one of the big group of food kitchens that were setup ro feed people for 2 week period

  it started with only a few thousand people camped in the forest, by the end of the week the MEA was installing major new electric power lines and transformers and truck loads of rice and all donated foodstuffs were streaming in.

  we were feeding everyone for free, the crowd peaked at 1.5M people that turned up for the two nights and the day of the funeral

  so a rally of 100,000 or so is childs play and possibly not as significant for the people of Esaan

  its also an indication why Esaan people dont quite understand Bangkok peoples fixation on trivia like money

  Quality comment or not? 14  0

• 40 David Brown // May 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm

  Stuart blames the reds but tries to excuse them because of lack of education, etc.

  as I have said elsewhere, democracy is actually very simple, anyone that is aware of the environment they live in and can judge other people can choose who they will vote for

  I blame the amart because they do not want to understand democracy.

  they hate any idea that could permit anyone else to control what happens in Thailand.

  the military have recognised that the amart were using them as a tool so they have now taken over the amart, the 700 generals have become the controllers, even the big families must now submit to the military involvement in their businesses, the royals are infiltrated by the military through the privy council and the CPB.

  the military are against democracy and will not permit the reds to win. because of their links with the US military it will be a huge challenge for the people of Thailand to bring the military under civilian control.

  Quality comment or not? 15  0

• 41 Willem Steyn // May 23, 2010 at 8:44 pm

  I”ve been associated with Thailand for nearly fifty years and although I like Thais and their country very much. I must say that as a people they exhibit the same moral blindness of the Germans circa 1930′s and 40′s. I was in the country in 2003 when Thaksin was conducting his “sonderbehandling” (special treatment) of so called drug dealers. Without exception, every Thai, I spoke to about this, applauded this action. I later transpired that most of the murdered unfortunates had absolutely no links whatsoever with drugs and Thaksin apologists continue their slander of the dead. I have no sympathy with any society that refuses to confront this bloody episode in their past. Murder of this magnitude is a crime against humanity and I’m tired of listening to “holocaust denial” style arguments that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin!

  Quality comment or not? 21  0

• 42 michael // May 23, 2010 at 9:25 pm

  Roger #28: thanks. Your comments re. your daughter’s school are typical. That the school in question, a government-run ‘show’-school is run like this is depressing, although not unusual. A colleague of mine worked at a Demonstration School attached to a University which had some outstanding facilities which were approaching ‘state-of-the-art’. They were not normally available to the students, however; they were opened only when parties of special visitors, e.g. overseas education officials, visited. Then they were closed up. I can’t say that this is typical, however; I haven’t had time to check.

  The ‘tea money’ thing is absolutely normal for entry to most of these schools, or special programs they have. I have been told by Thai teachers that the money goes to senior staff members (Directors, etc.), in much the same way as bribes are divided up by police.

  Your comments on the Head of English & exams are typical, & apply equally to some private schools. Also to some lesser universities.

  Agreed: a huge amount of the energy in education institutions goes into activities that are really about control of students & staff- universities as well as schools. I couldn’t believe it when, shortly after arriving here, I saw a senior humanities lecturer standing at the gate, sending students home if their dresses were too short, hair ‘inappropriate’, etc. This was a regular daily rostered activity for Thai teaching staff. Teachers had to sign on by a certain time every morning, even if their first class was mid-afternoon, and this continued into the breaks between semesters – although the teachers, having signed on & off in the morning, could go home – thus preventing them from going away from Bangkok.

  Macca #29: “Did you know that it is not uncommon in some village schools to have up to 60 in a class and the teacher stands at the front with a megaphone.” That applies equally to most Bangkok schools, although the amplification is usually through a mic., which is turned up so loud that it becomes impossible to teach in the next room, or on the next floor, without doing the same. Most teachers in high schools don’t know their students’ names – too many.

  English is taught in Thai language. The teachers sit at the front & prattle on in Thai. Occasionally one can pick up a badly-pronounced English word. The students are learning ‘about English’, but they are not learning English.

  Roger, I’ve seen many cases similar to the cell-phone video; 2 in the last 12 months involved the internet. G9 girls posted photos of their rivals on internet dating sites, with provocative text, & a cell phone number. The parents complained, the perpetrators were tracked down, and no meaningful action was taken. In one case, the father of the main culprit was a lawyer. He threatened the school. His daughter went around with a smug & insolent expression for some time, & became something of a hero. This was in a private school. I’ve had to work very carefully with a number of kids who had been abused by fellow students. One, mildly autistic, had been tied up, beaten, & locked in a cleaning cupboard, by a whole group of students. No action by the school, so his parents removed him. Some students at my school tried to bully him. We (foreign teachers – the Thais didn’t want to know about it) put a very swift end to that.

  Another was repeatedly emotionally abused & humiliated by nuns at a very famous school in the area of the recent protests. She is still going regularly to a psychiatrist, 3 years later. Fortunately she’s much better now, no thanks to my Thai colleagues, who regarded her as a nuisance, although they went through the motions of sympathy in meetings with the parents. The mother told me that her daughter used to try to throw herself out of the car on the way to school. She said that many former students were undergoing psychiatric treatment. “Why didn’t you take legal action?” I said. The reply was that she was threatened. She was unwilling to discuss the matter further.

  I assisted with research on a project about transgender males (‘ladyboys”). We discovered that most of the respondents had had their first sexual experience with male Thai teachers at government schools, usually at from 10 to 12 years of age. They didn’t seem to think there was anything wrong with that.

  Sorry to be “crass and disrespectful,” Pharris #35. Maybe it’s better to let the boat sink, rather than rock it. BTW, I’ve never heard an ugly American called a ‘kangaroo’ in Oz. The offspring of migrant families refer to anglo-Australians as ‘skips’, which refers to Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo (old tv series), though. I like it. Unfortunately these “uncivilized natives”, as the Yellowshirts would describe them, do know, at long last, “what’s good for them.” That’s why they’re rebelling.

  Quality comment or not? 18  0

• 43 Oble // May 23, 2010 at 10:22 pm

  >Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society.

  You want to bet ?

  To the majority of upper class Thais what has happened was a peasant uprising that needed to be put down to maintain the natural social order and distribution of patronage that they have prospered under.

  There are two visions of democracy in Asia the chaotic but representative ones of India, Thailand, Phillippines and Bangladesh and the limited democracy of the authoritarian one party states of most of the rest of Asia. It’s pretty clear that the Thai upper classes see the second as the most appropriate for Thailand. If Thailand was run with the politics of Singapore they would be overjoyed.

  Most likely the government will now initiate a series of programs to suppress what they see as a low level rebellion. A combination of military suppression and a strong propaganda campaign is most likely. The military who are familiar with the process having done it before. Meanwhile the poor will need to be more securely disenfranchised from the democratic system since they can’t just be bought anymore.

  The irony is that the situation creates the opportunity for the military and royal power centre to increase control of the political system to the detriment of the middle classes. In the end the distaste the middle class have for the poor could well used against them.

  Quality comment or not? 13  0

• 44 chris beale // May 24, 2010 at 1:49 am

  Smith Jones #4 :
  Speculation among some journalists at the FCCT awhile ago was that the real reason Harry Nicholaides was imprisoned on an arrest warrant which was two years old, was to intimidate people like Thitinan Pongsudhirak.
  It does n’t seemed to have worked.
  He still writes some of the best – if not the best – analysis, which is fearlessly accurate and balanced.
  This fine article is of his usual extremely high standard.

  Quality comment or not? 8  2

• 45 Daniel Wolf // May 24, 2010 at 1:57 am

  -JohnH-

  Thanks for your reply. You make some good points, particularly that the western system tends to be administered in a velvet glove.

  When I mentioned our health care system I was primarily thinking about the Canadian one. Our once good system has been systematically degraded in the last decade to the point where its almost useless. In fact, I have given up trying to access health care in Canada and now go to Thailand for all my medical needs. Its cheaper, better, and you don’t have to wait for hours in waiting rooms. Also Thailand has not been bought and sold by the world drug companies so medicine there is actually affordable.

  I don’t know what the situation is in the United States but I am aware that the FDA there is partially funded by pharmaceutical companies, in what may be the finest example of corruption that I can think of. How do you feel about the drug company’s’ monopoly in North America and being forced to pay the world’s highest prices for medicine?

  –

  Biopharm bulletin describing the 340 million dollars the industry pays the FDA annually – one fifth of the FDA budget.

  http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/User-Fees-Bolster-FDArsquos-BudgetmdashAnalysis/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/406718

  Quality comment or not? 1  3

• 46 max K // May 24, 2010 at 4:26 am

  @Pharris. Do you really believe that the army was restrained? Sure, they could have killed their prisoners in broad daylight, but how many prisoners and unaccounted for dead have disappeared?

  we may never know, and that’s the point.

  maybe you should ask better questions like why the government spent millions on antiriot gear for the army, a job and funding that should have been delegated to the police, when they skipped the whole humanitarian crowd control step and proceeded to open fire with snipers and assault rifles in a remarkable breach of accepted practice.(oh yea, i forgot it was self defense because the conscripts were getting massacred first). the army has left scars that won’t heal for a generation.

  who gave the order to assassinate? who gave the order to abandon tear gas and batons for sniper scopes and automatic gunfire?

  who is going to investigate this when the crime scene is closed to independent scrutiny and the evidence is currently being swept under the carpet by the BMA and volunteers?

  Pharris I think all the evidence you will need to praise the army will be planted in the next few days. No need to worry about the witnesses, they will be dead or deported by then.

  Quality comment or not? 14  1

• 47 Paul // May 24, 2010 at 6:03 am

  I agree with most of Stuart’s #3 points but I dislike it that he put it is such a hopeless tone.

  It’s true they need to continue with their democratisation and it’s true that Abhitsit must be removed and …. must be dead, but there is no need to put them down by saying they can’t do it and that they won’t even exist in the future.

  I like your points, I know you’re sick of the middle class Thais’ relentless naivety (I do too), but please if you can’t suggest something then please just stay objective.

  from a Chinese-Thai who supports democracy and prefers to address himself as overseas Chinese.

  Quality comment or not? 2  1

• 48 michael // May 24, 2010 at 6:40 am

  What next for creative artists, who have been hamstrung by Thailand’s very tight-arsed Misery of Culture, with its sinister Cultural Surveillance Department?

  Well, hopefully they will get a bit of a spurt ahead, because brilliant 39-yr-old Thai film-maker Apichatpong Weerasethakul has just won the Palme d’Or at Cannes for his ‘Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives’! Huzzah!

  If Abhisit is smart, he will not only fete ‘Joe’, who has brought honour to a country sadly in need of it, but do a major reshuffle in the Misery of Culture, especially shafting the horrible Kh. Ladda, and all the other grotesques who have been holding back cultural development in this anachronistically prettified country. (In a recent move, the Misery gave half of its miserly film grants to a sequel to the epic ‘Naresuan’, leading many to ask why government assistance should be given to commercial projects quite able to raise finance from investors.)

  Kh Ladda famously said, during a censorship debacle when her unit instructed Apichatpong to remove several scenes from his ‘Syndromes & a Century’, “Nobody goes to see films by Apichatpong. Thai people want to see comedy. We like a laugh.” She described Thai film-goers as “uneducated” and went on to say, “They’re not intellectuals, that’s why we need ratings.” The bimbo approach to cultural development: the arts are for decorating an ugly world & keeping its inhabitants stupid. ‘Joe’ removed his film from circulation in Thailand.

  There are young writers, visual artists, cinematographers, and music-makers in Thailand whose potential is shriveling up because of the pressure on them to be airheads, trivial, inoffensive and decorative. A lot of them go into advertising. With a bit of support, they could be part of the changes that this society is undergoing, providing opportunities for self-reflection and the discussion of ideas, as they are in other countries. Just give ‘em the money, and stand well back!

  Quality comment or not? 28  0

• 49 JohnH // May 24, 2010 at 9:57 am

  Daniel Wolf

  Thanks for your response –

  I should say from the start that I was a nurse in the UK and have some 24 years experience, working in the Royal Navy treating civilians in the the RN hospitals’ Accident and Emergency Departments in Gosport nr. Portsmouth and Plymouth in the UK, and then as a clinical nurse specialist in resuscitation for the NHS.

  First, in Thailand, the standard of care is directly related to how much money you have and your position in society. I have been to a number of hospitals here – state and private – and have been appalled by the uncaring attitude and low standard of care.

  Second, innapropriate medicines prescribed – a Thai pharmacist friend in the pharmaceutical industry here tells me that some drug companies give doctors under the table freebies and payments to push their drugs – interestingly not just the exotic or new ones , but also the run of the mill medicines such as antibiotics.

  Extra-payments to UK doctors are forbidden by law – yes I know that the pharmaceutical industry world-wide fund research and doctors (and nurses) to attend international conferences etc.

  Antibiotics are a very good example. Many Thai people will routinely take them for viral infections – doctors here have told me they prescribe them to protect the patient from getting a secondary bacterial infection due to a lowered immune system. Rubbish, utter rubbish and not scientific. They should be given to patients with increased risk factors such as other underlying disease but not for otherwise healthy people with common, seasonal viral illnesses.

  Senior officials in the Thai FDA routinely demand under the table payments to license new medicines for use in Thailand. Last year, an international company MD challenged this at senior govt. level and won, when he threatened to expose this practice in public. He had recorded the conversations – clever guy.

  This was never made public. No surprises there eh?

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• 50 Ricky Ward // May 24, 2010 at 12:26 pm

  @max K 46

  “Pharris I think all the evidence you will need to praise the army will be planted in the next few days. ”

  If you saw Saturday nights televised briefing for military attaches there you had it. Lots of explosives and guns, supposedly left by the Reds. TV footage, carefully cut, of Red speakers & Thaksin but none of independent news organisations filming the soldiers finding the weaponry.

  Very much smacks of the CIA fabrication of evidence approach which I recall they used during the Vietnam war.

  @JohnH 47

  “This is Thailand” the pharmacist said to me when I went to return 5 tubes of over prescribed drugs to Suan Dok Hospital in Chiang Mai. Just the other day she encountered a similar case, both from the Skin Clinic, she said. “Hospitals are being run like businesses” she added.

  @michael 48

  The Misery of Culture sure knows how to entertain. Every government TV channel puts on an 8 pm laugh segment every night.

  Quality comment or not? 13  1

• 51 steve wilson // May 24, 2010 at 1:26 pm

  its a shame australia did not paly a bigger role in avoiding the bloodshed in thailand. The rudd governemnt is a bit limp wristed, we really need someone like gareth evens as foreign minister, rather than stephen smith

  Quality comment or not? 0  4

• 52 Jasmin // May 24, 2010 at 2:21 pm

  I found one interesting article. Please read with your heart open. Best after meditation for the healing of Thailand

  http://www.eturbonews.com/16286/thaksin-same-league-laden-and-responsible-terror-attacks-thailan

  Quality comment or not? 0  9

• 53 David Brown // May 24, 2010 at 2:52 pm

  Steve Wilson #51

  of course “even” gareth evans was guilty of pandering to international (US) pressure when he supported the Khmer Rouge…

  meanwhile Alex Downer (of all people) has spoken out for democratic forces in Thailand so perhaps Aust parliament MPs do have some regard for democratic principles and Alex is reflecting these whereas Stephen Smith as the FM has a “broader picture” to consider.

  I assume the “broader picture” is the US alliance, particularly the
  military and intelligence (spooks) alliance.

  The US military and spooks have deep links into Thailand, from Vietnam, Laos and Cambodian War days (ooopppss was there a Laos War and who supported the Khmer Rouge?) and now secret renditions for the valuable political tool called the War on Terror admitted in the US but still denied in Thailand.

  So Stephen Smith no doubt has been advised by his Canberra desk spooks to support the Thai military and their puppet government, and like a good little intelligence community servant has done their bidding.

  I wonder if Stephen has an opportunity to realise that the ideals of
  democracy are actually an even bigger picture than the evil machinations of the military forces of the world and Barack Obama might value Stephens support in loosening the US military grip on Thailand and other similar situations in so many other countries.

  I just note for the record that the best way to forecast future “trouble
  spots” is to identify where the US is interfering now (blowback). So,
  Australia and Thailand beware!

  Quality comment or not? 2  2

• 54 BB // May 24, 2010 at 3:49 pm

  - What next for the Thai military?
  A: The soldiers who killed the red-shirt will get promoted. Thai people (especially Bangkok people) admire and respect them because they can kill the “terrorism” away. (Bangkok people and some elites hate red-shirt from Thai media-bias influence and the red-shirts disrupt their shopping paradise in Bangkok.)

  - What next for Thailand’s education system?
  A: In Thai history subject, will record the red-shirt as terrorism.

  - What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence?
  A: Sad, angry, upset, loose of faith in Democracy system in Thailand. Some of them will try to revenge. Some of them do not want to be “Thai” people anymore. They have the bomb in their mind and waiting for the time to explode. The bomb of feeling injustice.

  - What next for the Thai police?
  A:Maybe labelled by Thai media as nonprofessional, red-shirt support, etc.

  What next for memories of political violence and social conflict?
  A: Thailand will be deeply divide. If there is no justice in the country, there would be no peace.
  Red-shirt and the one who feel the injustice cannot stay calm anymore, they will want to stand up and fight. Fight does not mean with weapons, but with their mind, they will try to find the way to bring back their justice.

  The situation here in Bangkok. some people thinks this is the end… instead this is the beginning.

  What next for Thai youth?
  A: Many Thai youth have been taught to dare to declare their opinions, but they have never been taught to respect opinions of other people that think different from them. And also they have never been taught to use reason and evidence to support theit opinions instead of using emotional intention.

  What next for Thai foreign policy?
  A: Find Thaksin, discredit Thaksin, label him as terrorist and try to make him cannot go to any country in the world and do not pay attention about Thai import-export because Thaksin is the first priority.

  What next for the conflict in the southern-most provinces?
  A: Still remains. The current government do not pay much attention to this problem. Maybe because they spend time trying to build up their credit instead and they may not be capable enough to handle southern-most provinces problem.

  What next for the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations?
  A: Surely get promoted.

  What next for the Thai parliamentary system?
  A: The “system” in Thailand cannot operate because the current government try to destroy anything that is the system and replace with the organization they build to be above the democratic system such as Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations, they have too much power to controy any system in Thailand.

  What next for the Thai media?
  A: Still biased, label the red-shirts and Thaksin. Build credit to current government and military and Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations. Thai media will still lead and teach Thai people to hate the red-shirt and do not open mind for different opinions.

  Quality comment or not? 19  0

• 55 Apirux // May 24, 2010 at 4:11 pm

  Here is what I wrote to my friends abroad:

  “Last week, we could neither open doors nor windows of our house, the smoke was so dense. We could hear bombs, gunshots and choppers flying around. I could even time that, all activities started at 5 a.m. Heavy frequency was from 9 p.m. until 2 a.m.

  I took Eins and Arc to dine with my American friend and a foreign journalist on Sathorn-Suan Plu area last Friday night. We all experienced bombing and shooting in front of the place we were, and directly encountered with the mob mobilized on the way back home.

  Now, some of my tenants decided to move out from an estate that they had signed for a long term rent – of course, I had to waive the penalty, and I have to repair and renovate two other properties. It is a real loss of income, and “out-of-pocket” expenses for me.

  Are we annoyed, angry at the UDD?
  NOT AT ALL.

  Aimy, the youngest, was a bit afraid. But I explained to her and to her brother and sisters about the cause. Oeil, the third, is cooler. All kids are now brainwashed.
  We all empathize to the UDD.

  I personally went into the mob and talked with those villagers “ban nok”. I contributed money to several “groups” there, and still render support whatever I can to them.

  Why?
  I rallied openly against Thaksin in 2005-06.
  But the efforts of “the power that be” put to quell UDD down, has destroyed the country more than what Thaksin could have done himself.

  I never think this incident would be like October 1973 or May 1992 – act & stop. Rather, it would be closer to October 1976 – let the blood flow. “There is no mercy for those who pose threat or show disrespect”, then license to kill was granted. That was why I openly alerted for international intervention before the massacre took place.

  I may be hypnotized by all foreign clips, articles, and media that I have gone through.

  The future of Thailand can be anything but safe.”

  Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 30  0

• 56 David Brown // May 24, 2010 at 4:34 pm

  BB #54 thank you for your contribution

  just like to add a couple of things:

  - What next for Thailand’s education system?
  often used as a patronising reason for dismissing country Thai peoples ability to understand democracy

  to understand democracy needs primary school or less and ability to judge other people. democracy is so simple… the sophisticated people in Bangkok do not want to know… thats the only problem

  they do not want to admit that even the lowliest person can judge
  another person and recognise the environment they are living in… and thats all you need to be able to make up your mind who to vote for

  the sophisticated people think that politics is complicated because it
  is for them… they have all these complications about how to manage and increase their wealth and how to make sure that the mass of people around them dont get any share of it… and they are fat and lazy, they dont want to disturb the old successful patterns

  democracy is horrible, every 3 or 4 years you might get a new government and have to make sure all your legal and illegal businesses and schemes dont get found out and spoilt by some new broom

  - What next for the conflict in the southern-most provinces?
  Without the military, the government, reds with Peu Thai, PAD, etc with
  the police performing their normal moderating role in society will be
  able to act like normal political rivals and develop democratic solutions.

  As an aside I also believe the insurgency in the south of Thailand will
  also subside since it is fuelled primarily by the same rule by the
  military (“Bangkok elites”) that is inspiring the reds only more so
  because the military in the south are exercising their violence, sadism
  and illegal businesses at levels so far not permitted to them, except in
  treating certain groups like refugees and “illegal migrant workers” in
  the rest of the country.

  Seems to me that Thai police usually try to act within their roles and would perform better, including in the south but the military interferes in major ways not only by intruding on the roles of the police but also of course its involvement in legal and illegal businesses and in political affairs.

  Quality comment or not? 7  1

• 57 Roger // May 24, 2010 at 6:45 pm

  Michael,
  I believe both of us have just scratched the surface with our observations about Thai schools, Thai teachers and the Thai education system; basically the whole thing stinks and needs a major overhaul from the top down.
  There are many other examples I could give you but will restrict it to just one.
  Because I am retired, I am available during school hours and have been called to the school on many occasions, so much so that my car is permitted in the school grounds itself (reserved for the most influential Thais). Most of the calls are about students being threatened by teachers: Haircuts, confiscated cell phones, assaults by teachers, etc. My daughter said I have been chosen because; The teachers that should know English, do not and therefore I embarrass them into submission. The Thai teachers know I know the head master and get on well with him and don’t want to incur his wrath. And finally, the Thai teachers know I will call the police if there has been an assault and they can’t afford to have the so-called top high school in Thailand embarrassed, themselves embarrassed and the education department minions on their case, taking their tea money. They also know I will not let the case slide into obscurity and I have had the grim pleasure twice of watching the teacher apologise to the parents (heaven forbid them apologising to the student they assaulted).
  The most proficient “teacher” (in education, Master’s from overseas) at the school has been promoted/demoted to coordinator and she is now my link to keeping the other teachers on a leash. In other words, behaving themselves, but the students suffer because she is no longer teaching.
  I think a whole new page should be started just on the Thai education system, I know I could write at least a page and not even scratch the surface.
  Roger

  Quality comment or not? 10  0

• 58 Wang Dong // May 24, 2010 at 7:55 pm

  Talking about the education system.

  I have first hand experience of the Thai education system at an early age. In Bangkok, I was enrolled at a relatively expensive private nursery school (โรงเรียนอนุบาล). I and most of the male students were physically assaulted by teachers almost on a daily basis. It wasn’t getting hit that was the problem, but how arbitrarily (and ferociously) the punishment was dished out by mainly female teachers. Furthermore, the unfortunate kid who happen to wet himself during nap time would rarely get sympathy from the teachers, but more often embarrassed in front of the class.

  This may be anecdotal evidence from my own experience, but I also noticed that by the time we reached primary school, many of the kids (~ 6 years old) have already acquired a particularly nasty edge not seen in Aussie kids of the same age. The amount of bragging, bullying, and backstabbing has to be seen to be believed.

  Quality comment or not? 6  0

• 59 Leeyiankun // May 24, 2010 at 8:24 pm

  Jasmin #52, that’s pure comedy at work! Wow, I mean it. Just… wow. O_o

  Quality comment or not? 3  0

• 60 michael // May 24, 2010 at 8:24 pm

  Roger #57: thanks for that. I agree that a thread on Education would be a great idea. Perhaps it would be best to wait until the current crisis situation has died down though, because I think the energy of most NM participants is going into commentary on urgent issues directly concerned with it. Many NM readers & commentators do have a connection with education, either as educators or parents, & I would hope that they would want to be involved.

  John H #49: You make some good points about the medical system, particularly in regard to over-prescribing. A couple of years ago I had a heavy chest cold, which caused me to take time off work, so I needed a medical certificate. That’s all I wanted, because I recognized the symptoms & knew that symptomatic relief (old-fashioned cough mixture & something to dry up the mucous, both available over-the-counter) was sufficient. I went to the OPD of the very posh hospital near my home. The doctor gravely told me she needed a chest X-ray. I allowed them to do this, trusting in her expertise & somewhat alarmed. She then put me on a respirator for half an hour. I was finally given two antibiotics & various other medications in a show-bag, charged 6000baht on top of my insurance, & sent home. I called a doctor friend in Oz, who asked me what colour the mucous was, roared laughing, & told me to throw all the medication out, take some honey & lemon, and go to bed. I have not been back to that hospital, except to demand the medical certificate, which the quack had forgotten to give me, & for which they had the cheek to ask a second fee (I refused).

  I find Mission very good. It’s run by 7th-day Adventists, medical missionaries, they’re vegetarians & give dietary advice (prevention better than cure), & only prescribe antibiotics if absolutely necessary. They’re not god-botherers, BTW.

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• 61 JohnH // May 24, 2010 at 10:33 pm

  Michael and Roger,

  I heartily second the proposal that NM should devote a thread topic to education in Thailand. However, necessarily and by cultural default almost, it would also have to closely examine the use and abuse of the Thai phrase, ‘greng jai.’

  I don’t pretend to be an expert of this; however, I have discussed this with many Thai people and seen it action.

  For the Thai commentators on this site, surely this would also be a great opportunity to give us your views on this interesting socio- cultural-linguistic construct.

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• 62 MediaWar // May 24, 2010 at 11:23 pm

  Ricefield Radio Thailand blog provides an interesting insight on this subject matter of “What’s next …” :
  Enemy of the state 9 – Guerrillas, Abhisit and CRES

  “The government has underestimated badly the support and conviction of the Reds in the North and Northeast. So badly in fact, that some of the radical elements in the Reds, who were reigned in by the leadership of the UDD, have now begun to move underground…

  If things stay as they are now you can expect a Southern insurgency type operation from the radical elements….

  Abhisit can no longer reconcile with the North and Northeast. It’s no longer safe for him and some of his government to travel in over half the country, without a huge security operation…

  It looks very much like a protracted armed Guerrilla war will be in Thailand’s future. Arms are cheap and easy to acquire…”

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• 63 MediaWar // May 25, 2010 at 12:55 am

  regarding Education

  “What next for Thailand’s education system?”

  I think that it will continue to have 3 main functions/ roles/ purposes, as so far , only perhaps some would be more enforced:

  1) Pre-propaganda – for kids & youth, to become a qualified “propagandees” – folks the MOST perfectly susceptible to actual systematic propaganda.
  (these are Ellul’s terms in his book “Propaganda – The Formation of Men’s Attitudes“; it’s available @ Kinokuniya book stores in Bangkok, soft pinkish color)

  2) as mainly a tool to get a position in business / be able to get any more or less decent paid job. and of course in politics (well, it is another form of business – sort of ! LOL) – to have any chance to be eligible to become a Member of Parliament; soon perhaps (if PAD succeeds in imposing its “New Politics”) it will be as one of main qualification even for being able to have the very right to VOTE at all !

  3) actual Propaganda – and here I mostly mean – becoming some academic (ajarn) and thus a Propagandist: to get a position of an authority on all sorts of matters, and being used by gov / establishment for giving “opinions” and pass judgments on everything & everyone. in other words, to become a …. Thinitan! LOL no, seriously – to become a mouthpiece (and a prostitute) for establishment with NO SHAME, NO CONSCIENCE left at all. and perhaps, also must be mentioned other “specialists” in Propaganda: as professional Thai media (say, Yoon), army (Sansern?), others (Dr. Pornthip ?)

  so, to me the picture is quite obvious – the “Education” in Toler-land (or as many now after recent massacres call it Die-land) will be mainly, if not only, for the above mentioned purposes – similar to some grotesque Orwellian like horror story.

  well, of course someone may say that education can also be used for art, something “creative” – but I think that is all covered by 2) because nowadays most of those things are commercialized anyway; also because in dictatorship like this EVERYTHING must be aimed at supporting propaganda, otherwise anything slightly liberal might be deemed as anti-establishment. (politicizing & polarization is already pretty evident: recent speech by actor who received highest award, also some statements by film-maker who got award at Cannes )

  and of course, promised / promoted by PAD “re-education” will soon start at earnest, I bet ! it has already started ever since 2007 (before the “Referendum”) and only increased during Abhish1t’s regime (which is nothing else than same 2006/07 junta with Demo-crap cover)

  that’s my own opinion. more of my own thoughts on “Education” matter I have already posted 1 year ago :

  Education = “pre-propaganda” + Culture = base for propaganda

  “education or what usually goes by that word in the modern world, is the absolute prerequisite for propaganda. In fact, education is largely identical with what Ellul calls “pre-propaganda”– the conditioning of minds with vast amounts of incoherent information, already dispensed for ulterior purposeds and posing as “facts” and as “education…

  Without this intense collaboration by the propagandee the propagandist would be helpless

  propaganda itself is our culture and what the masses ought to learn… Primary education makes it possible to enter the realm of propaganda, in which people then receive their intellectual and cultural environment… The uncultured man cannot be reached by propaganda…

  development of primary education is a fundamental condition for the organization of propaganda… need of a certain cultural level to make people susceptible to propaganda… ”

  well, I recommend to read both Ellul’s book “Propaganda” as well as KhiKwai’s (Ferrera) entire blog in order to be able to cut through the crap of Thai media & ajarns’ spin, and the whole “Education” myth.

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• 64 PP // May 25, 2010 at 2:02 am

  I agree with many of you here that education system is a big problem in Thailand and it should be improved. The first priority should be given to middle and higher class in Bangkok; that they should respect others, especially the poor as human beings. Why? Because the recent incidence was decided by the educated from Oxford and supported, directly and indirectly, by so many educated from top universities in Thailand and overseas. Only these educated groups are likely to be decision makers and could make similar decision (license to kill) again in the future. This could be the next for academic research and human right organisations.

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• 65 Kermit the toad // May 25, 2010 at 3:46 am

  Having talked to a Thai friend of mine, who had talked to other middle class residents of BKK, I’d like to reflect some points on the question :What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence? It is absolutely tragic that many BKK residents believe and support the government totally, without questioning or care about loss of civilian life but the queen’s guard that was killed on the 10th April had become a hero!!
  It is dangerous indeed to see that some(?) or many(?) people believe whatever “presented”by Thai mainstreem media as facts , as you can see some Thai wrote a letter to CNN considering it “biased and unreliable” pl. see:
  http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/is-cnn-s-coverage-really-biased
  My point is what people believe has become equivalennt to truth? No information about dead civilian on Thai TV but the achievement of the government has been praised all along. Where is their conscience ? Have the red -shirts really become red germs according to some or many BKK residents? On the contrary, the yellow-shirts had committed crimes back then, either seizures of BKK airport or the government house, they are still at large; unfortunately, one of them has become a Minster of Foreign Affairs. This game is undoubtedly dirty . Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!

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• 66 Ricky Ward // May 25, 2010 at 12:04 pm

  Today the Bangkok Post provides its answer to the question:
  What next for the Thai parliamentary system?

  That is the budget debate tomorrow followed by a censure motion from the opposition who say convention has it that it be done the other way round.

  A budget to hand out 50 billion baht to govenment friendly business folk hurt by its mishandling of the Red protest, goodies for the military etc, then a debate about the very legitimacy of the government.

  Can the opposition not frustrate this by withdrawing its members from the chamber and aborting the session due to the lack of a quorum?

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• 67 chris beale // May 25, 2010 at 1:15 pm

  Media War #63 :

  Re. “Ellul’s terms in his book “Propaganda – The Formation of Men’s Attitudes“; it’s available @ Kinokuniya book stores in Bangkok”.
  You need to be specific about WHICH Kinokuniya stores – as obviously if it was only sold in their store at CentralWorld that is now a heap of charred rubble.
  Very sad, as it was a great bookshop.

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• 68 MediaWar // May 25, 2010 at 4:19 pm

  there aren’t so many actually: remaining are @ Siam Paragon and Emporium only (is that any @ Thaniya plaza , or only AsiaBooks ?). I purchased my copy @ Paragon a year ago. in any case – I gave a link to their website, there is ISBN number & other details. so, if you come to any of their branches and make inquiry by those details – I’m sure they’ll assist you, they’re very efficient.

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• 69 Pharris // May 26, 2010 at 8:30 pm

  Stuart:

  I take no issue with the merits of your argument. I am sure you always make perfect arguments. What I find offensive about your comment is it tone. And tone is very important because it incites emotions for better or worse. In your case, it seems you intend to be mean.

  You could have chosen more neutral language to make your points but you chose not to. Rather than say Thailand has a flawed education system because its teachers are bad, you choose to say: “It will take removal or retraining of 80% of teachers in Thailand because they are largely incompetent to teach.” Where do you come up with this stuff? And rather than say Thais have difficulty seeing pass recent events, you choose to say, “the short attention-span of Thais and their inherent lack of respect for the rule of law.” Who are you to say any particular trait is inherit to a certain people? That’s like saying Africans are inherently barbaric and ungovernable. You’re a small-minded individual if you expect me to have an “objective discussion” with you after you spew such garbage.

  Your tone betrays your attitude, which judging from other gems you’ve posted on this blog is one that condescends and belittles Thais and Thailand. It is offensive but maybe you mean to offend.

  Here’s another one of your gems:

  “What would happen if western influence were to disappear overnight, western countries and the western people you hate stopped buying Thai rice and stopped coming to visit the Thai brothels you populate with the daughters of your uncared-for poor. Thailand would return to the stone age Rose, so keep a civil tongue in your uneducated and foul-mouthed head. Oh, and try to get a clue somewhere would you – if you aren;t sure where to get one, ask a farang.”

  Wow, I can’t argue with you how ‘fair and correct’ your statements are here.

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• 70 Ricky Ward // May 27, 2010 at 12:32 am

  What’s next for Thailand’s role in the Climate Catastrophe debate and the IPCC ? …. asked this on 22nd and got thumbs down.

  Could some contributors kindly say why?

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• 71 J. B. // May 27, 2010 at 10:53 am

  from above “What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence?”

  Recent reports indicate that they are to sue UDD and that the NHRC (National Human Rights Commission) is to help in these suits.

  Was the cost, to loss of lives, the loss of a great mall, the scar in the psyche of the People of Bangkok and the Redshirt Masses from the provinces worth not having an election–something that must be done eventually (unless the current clique decides to go down the path of Burma-and the subsequent label of pariah state.

  My suggestion, Apisit step down. Appoint a neutral third party to run a caretaker government for the brief time until a election can be held.

  If you (Apisit) are convinced that you have the right answers to lead Thailand though this period, listen to the voice of the electors; if you are right the people will support you and if not, you lose but not the people.

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• 72 Bangok: Aftermath and Cleanup | Legal Nomads // Feb 24, 2011 at 8:39 pm

  [...] Lengthily open thread on New Mandela about the future of [...]

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