Given that this important post by Nick Nostitz appears to have been blocked by the Thai government, we are posting it again here. [UPDATE: and the Thai translation is available here.]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
[UPDATE: a full Thai translation is available here. A French translation is available here.]
Sitting here at home, I wonder if this day, the 15th of May, has been real, or just a terrible nightmare. Never in my whole life have I been so scared. I thought that I am going to die today.
At lunch time I went to Samliem Din Daeng to observe the protesters there. There were a few protesters around, not more than a few hundred. Lots of debris from last night’s clashes. A burned out military truck, still smoldering. People brought tires to build barricades. A municipal water truck was brought.
After a while the protesters moved the truck along Rajaparop Road towards the military lines, to use as a barricade against army fire. A few protesters moved a few dozen tires to build a barricade. One of the protesters joked around with a slingshot, in front of the cameras of us photographers: “See – that are our weapons against the soldiers”.
[Click on images for larger versions; scroll over for captions.]
The protesters moved the tires further along the road, in front of the Shell gas station near Soi Rang Naam. I positioned myself at the gas station as cover, in case the army would open fire. And straight away the army opened fire. Maybe 5 meters from me, on the road a small group of protesters was stuck behind the tires while bullets passed by. It made a sickening sound when bullets hit the protester who had just joked around with us – in the arm and in the stomach. A few protesters on our side tried to throw a rope over to pull the injured protester to us, but it did not work. The shooting never stopped. Another protester, who tried to crawl away, was hit in the leg and the shoulder. One guy managed to run over to us. I began losing any sense of time. One more of the group managed to cross over to us. Another guy was hit in the arm. After a while the two lightly injured guys ran over to us, one of them falling and crawling into safety. I feared he was hit again.
In the back of the gas station was a toilet, a small temporary safe zone. The guy with the shoulder and leg wounds had only grazing wounds. He, the other protester with the injured arm, and a few journos climbed over the wall. I went back to the old spot, to see what happened with the protesters still stuck behind the tires. One more protester made it into safety, ran across the gas station.
With terror I realized that the soldiers began moving to us. Shots were fired into the gas station. I hid first behind a car parked there, but had a bad feeling that I was in the very wrong spot, and that I had to get out as fast as I could. I ran back to the toilets, about 40 meters, realizing that I was shot at while I was running. My legs nearly gave in. Naked terrible unbelievable fear.
Right after the man with the gut shot was dragged there as well. I took a few photos, and made it over the wall as well. I jumped into a nice garden with a main house and a two wooden side houses. In the back were a few journalists and protesters. The people who lived there gave us water. I saw that at the wall the injured guy was lifted over, and went there trying to help. I heard soldiers running in the gas station behind the wall. The two people who lifted the man over ran towards the house. I couldn’t make it anymore, and pressed myself behind some bushes against the wall. I saw the injured man slip into a small artificial lake at the wall, maybe ten meters besides me.
Behind the wall, at the gas station, I heard soldiers shouting. Some people must have still been stuck in the toilets. Suddenly there was a long burst of gunfire, I saw shells flying over the wall. I heard pleading, shouting and what sounded like boots hitting flesh. I was more scared than ever in my life before, being stuck behind that wall. I prayed that just now nobody would call my mobile phone. I was terrified of the possibility that the soldiers would just fire over the wall as they must have known that people climbed over here.
I heard a soldier giving orders to come out or be shot dead. At first I thought he meant me, but I saw his head over the wall shouting at the man in the pool. I decided that I should make myself known, and shouted that I am a foreign journalist, and to please not shoot me. I shouted several times before the soldier seemed to take notice. I showed my open hands, he ordered me out. I walked towards him, and explained that the man in the water had a gut shot, and a bad shot in the arm. He floated in the pool, his face and stomach barely above the waterline.
The soldier ordered me to pull him out. Another soldier has also jumped over the wall, a third soldier secured from above the wall. While I tried to pull the man out of the water he pleaded, with a weak voice, that he just can’t take it anymore. He was too heavy. I asked one of the soldiers to help me, please. While roughly pulling at the man, he screamed that he should be dead, and because he isn’t they have to take him to the hospital, and that he should die. He walked off.
The injured man slipped back into the pool. The second soldier helped me pull him out, while the first kept on screaming. The soldier on the wall ordered me to take care of the man. I said that I have no idea how – he has a bad gut shot, and lifted the man’s shirt to show the small hole in the stomach. I just knelt down. The man asked me to lift his mangled arm and to turn him on his side as he can’t breathe anymore. I did so, while the man grunted with pain.
The soldiers ordered a stretcher, and ordered me not to take any photos. The first soldier went towards the house. I told him that there are several foreign journalists there. At gun point he ordered them out, and ordered them to carry the injured man out on the stretcher through the door of the compound leading to the gas station. I just sat down at the house, I was nearly fainting, my hands were shaking.
It took a long time to somewhat compose myself. We heard sirens from rescue vehicle coming, and shots fired from the soldiers in the gas station. The people of the compound made us coffee. Ten, a Neow Na photographer, managed to communicate by phone with the outside world, and relayed that we were stuck here – Thilo Thielke, the Spiegel correspondent, a Indonesian camera team, a local photographer for ABC news, me, and a few protesters that were on the spot promoted to drivers of us foreign journalists.
I called my wife and several colleagues on the outside that I was safe. We heard of other journalists having been injured in the mess. The conversations over the phone how to get us out took hours. The gunfire continued for a long time. In the distance, from the direction of the stage area we heard a few M79 explosions. We did not hear any firing from the direction of Samliem Din Daeng. Appearantly the CRES, including the PM, had a top level meeting about us. The people in the compound made us all dinner.The owner of the house came, he spoke fluent German, lived many years there, and worked there about ten minutes walking distance from my dad’s apartment.
When we finished dinner, we were advised to get out from the main door of the compound, through the gas station, and walk towards the soldiers at Soi Rang Naam. We asked that soldiers could please pick us up because we don’t trust to just walk out in the open. The answer was that the soldiers would then be targeted, and they can’t pick us up. We decided that we had to find a way over the back wall. It became dark. We were told that snipers were on all high-rises, and that another, unknown, force may fight the soldiers, and that therefore it would be impossible to pick us up.
There were many more phone calls, and discussions of which way would be safe. Finally, we climbed with a ladder over the wall, where a man picked us up. The gunfire started again, rather close to us, we had to move to a safer spot at a apartment building. After some discussion we decided on the way, climbed another wall into a small Soi. People were around. We asked for the safest route out. At the top of the alley it became dark, really dark. A few Red Shirt protesters were there. We were just under the flyover at Samliem Din Daeng.
Looking out at the Soi on the right, was like staring into the abyss, smoke, and pure darkness into which the flyover disappeared. We turned left, towards Victory Monument. A few people were hiding in the shadows. Soon we came into lighter territory, many locals in front of their houses. When I reached Victory Monument I heard monks chanting. More than a hundred monks sat at the bottom of the monument, praying for an end of the killing. I took a motorcycle taxi home. My motorcycle I had to leave parked in a Soi inside the killing zone.
17 responses so far ↓
1 BKK lawyer // Jun 2, 2010 at 7:35 pm
For me (using True) the English version was never blocked; the Thai version (on Fringer’s site) was and is blocked.
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2 Peter // Jun 2, 2010 at 8:15 pm
The Link to the Thai Version is not working.
I’m trying it from Germany so i’m sure this is a URL error, not a blocking problem.
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3 Donatella Toddawally // Jun 2, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Yes, Pravda , a.k.a True just returns a white page. Of course the page loads just fine via the VPN.
Ah, ‘t reminds me of the good old days of the Soviet Union.
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4 michael // Jun 2, 2010 at 11:47 pm
It’s blocked for me: English version on True (red Thai script message).
I was watching Abhisit’s Saturday briefing to foreign diplomats on TAN about 45min ago. A US delegate had just queried the fact that Thailand habitually uses army forces to deal with demonstrations, whereas other countries use police units. The PM had been giving his spin, when the screen blacked out & a Thai-language message came on to say that there was no signal. My immediate response was ‘censored!”, although, of course it is probably due to an electrical storm. Such is the paranoia induced by current Soviet-style Thai govt behaviour.
I really hope the meeting in question becomes available on DVD. Abhisit’s performance, as well as the carefully-worded questions from diplomats, are classic.
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5 SimonSays // Jun 3, 2010 at 12:49 am
the former Soviet Union. Ha ha.
Nothing like a good old ‘red’ under the bed hey?
Actually, it was an electrical storm. Lightning, thunder, deluge. My soi is now flooded.
I’d just like to remind everyone Thailand isn’t Burma. It’s absurd to make these comparisons.
Neither is it Thaksin’s good old friend Hun Sen’s Cambodia.
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6 ThaiPeople // Jun 3, 2010 at 1:17 am
The link for Thai translated version was blocked by government. It was redirected to ICT page. However, when connecting via a proxy the page was not exist. So please re-upload it.
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I’ve never ever imagine the situation like this in my life. Soldiers were killing people on the streets. The government keep blocking the websites, shut down radio stations…they trying to conceal the truth. Government’s been trying to make people believe that all ‘red shirts’ are terrorists so they got what they deserve!!!
At the same time, government still hunting down the protesters and anybody who has different political views.
I couldn’t stand watching any free TV or newspaper in Thailand any more. It’s really a nightmare. I desperately hope there will be some way or someone who can stop it.
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7 UKreader // Jun 3, 2010 at 2:06 am
Thai version is blocked on 3BB Chiang Mai
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8 Muupan // Jun 3, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Dear Sir,
I’m Thai who have observed the situation by myself, received any information from Thai and international sources. I know that there is some hidden agenda behind Thai media, why they must or need to be bias.
For example; The Nation, it had the conflict in ITV free channel case in Thailand against Thaksin, when he was still in his power. Then, they go against him all the time and supported PAD (Anti-Thaksin protestors). After the military coup, ITV case went to court justice (assign by the coup), then its concession was confiscated and turned back to the government. Then the government hired The Nation for 2000 Mio. Baht per years to run this media in name TPBS. So that is what they receive to follow the government.
For the other media, as I have known some journalists and moderators working on Thai free TV, three persons I known have been intimidated to report the news in the direction that the government please. One of them was called by the military officer who asked him to choose between his family and the direction he report the news.
Accordingly, I must recheck it and research more before trust it, when I watch or read the news. I’ve found a lot of information that Thai media never presented and some that they exaggerate more than the real situation and make the conclusion by themselves without the crucial evidence to support. In my opinion, most Thai media have the conspiracy. It’s necessary for them in order to survive.
We can see a lot of examples, that some Thai who believe Thai media and government’s propaganda try to insult every organizations such as HRW BBC CNN MEPs and other international organization s who inform what they don’t like that they don’t know the truth as them. (How do they know, what they think is true or false when they never open their mind to learn the difference?) .Moreover they claim that those media is bias or receive money from someone they against.
By the way the censorship in Thailand creates an effective propaganda by telling one-sided stories. People in Thailand don’t have chance to receive variety of information for their consideration. Now, it’s worse because the court said that, from now on, who publish the media and information against the government that means they distort the incident and must go to jail.
For how Abhisit came to power, I will tell you in sequence.
Four years ago, the country was led by Thaksin, a billionaire populist who was twice re-elected. A deeply divisive figure loved by the rural poor and loathed by the country’s elite. The PAD – anti Thaksin movement, mostly the elite and middle class who lost their benefit to the poor, rallied for so long time and then the military coup came to dispel Thaksin government.
Then the coup’s government felt to rule the country. They issued new constitution which a lot of unlawful article to protect themselves and disadvantage their political foes. They assigned their new supported group of officers to work in judgment and court system. After that, they let the condition: if we didn’t accept this constitution, there‘s no new election and they could apply worse constitution as they please. So the majority accepted it with the fear for worse rule and hope for new election.
After an election, PPP; pro Thaksin party; unexpectedly won again with 233 seats from 480 seats. While Democrat gained 165 seats. So PPP had right to form the government. Then The PAD can’t accept the result, blamed that they bought vote (In fact, every other parties in Thailand also buy vote included Democrat party).They closed the street for 7 months , seized the government house for 3 months and Thai international airports about a week in total, and they didn’t ask for democratic solutions but only wanted to expel whoever who support Thaksin out of their power.
They didn’t want common election but just raised the one they preferred to get in power. Moreover they also have dangerous ideas against democracy. For example; the one so- called “70/30” which means 70% of representatives in parliament should come from an assignment of the committee contained of experts, academic professors or other selected elites and the other 30% come from an election. Another example is the idea to prohibit normal citizens who don’t hold academic degrees to vote in an election because they believe that the low-educated people are too stupid to choose a good leader.
After long protest, the court, as the tool, banned all 3 parties on government side which affected these parties’ executive committees out of the position as representatives. They also made the other politicians go against PPP. Some of formal PPP members turned to Democrat side. Consequently, the proportion of the parliament was changed. Then they brought the parties’ leaders to the military Barracks to lobby them with or without force up to cases. So people can imply that they used dirty tools to form the government. And that is how the new government lead by Democrat came to power.
Some of his supporters claim that Abhisit and his coalition came from the same parliament. It’s half-true because he took his power after he got rid of his opponents. So this is the difference between an elected one and a person who come to power by dirty elimination of his foes.
- How they use the court to unbalance the sovereignty?
- How they intimidate the other politicians?
- Is the negotiation in the military barrack to form the new government the right thing for democracy?
For the demonstration, I think we should know the root of problem first. The problem is not Thaksin or some few people.
Some foreigners call this crisis as “social class war”. In fact, it isn’t exactly “social class war” or political difference, but the crackdown of Thai society. Yes, it’s about the different between rich and poor but in the abstract way. What the poor want is the acceptation and equal chance for their life. The poor don’t care much how much money they can gain but they want the acceptation from the rich ones.
The situation in Thailand is about the people’s attitude that separated into 2 directions. “Think as Rich or poor ones”. The rich, as they call themselves the middle class, try to insult that the poor is greedy and stupid, so they don’t accept the poor’s votes or decisions. In contradiction; the poor have their grudge against what the so-called rich people look down on them. They stole the poor right and blame them again and again.
The person, no matter class they are, if they agree and pay sympathetic for the poor will be claimed as the fool one and will be pushed to that political side, although they’ve no interest in political issue.( I also have that experience.)
So I think the trend of Thai society now is the isolation and discrimination between people’s hearts, which strong enough to eliminate ones who think different out of society. Even if it may costs people’s lives, some don’t feel guilty about it at all.
For the acceptation and chance, Taksin was an idol for the poor because he is the first one who gave it down to them. He didn’t give the budget for them freely but use strategies to make them try to work and have their praise. For example, he gave them the legal loan for their investment or payment. Before his time, the government had never concerned that the poor never allowed having debt with the formal financial institutes because they don’t have enough asset to guarantee. With the illegal ones, they must pay for very high interest rate. So forget about the investment or have their own business. It’s very hard for the poor to improve their status and quality of life by themselves. Even if they have similar ability as the richer one.
When Thaksin gave the chance to them, he also made the conditions. If you borrow the money and you can’t pay back in time, you’ll never receive it again. So it stimulates the people to work for themselves. At the same time he improved the healthcare and education in rural areas, made the stand-alone brand “OTOP” for the rural ones. So they can work, create and have pride with their works.
In contradiction, Abhisit gives the money, too. This is with more “popularity” policy without repayment. But he gives just only money not the chance. He gives money but he still looks down of them by his speeches and actions. For the investment and financial policies he usually gives the priority to the big enterprises not the small or middle ones.
I think the corruption issue is also significant. But no only Thaksin who corrupted ; in fact; so do the members of Democrat .The Democrat play the most corruption in Thai history but they never blame what they did and the elite back-up help them to cover it with the law distortion and media. There’s no sanction for every politician ‘s corruptions except Thaksin’s.
Have you ever heard about the cases such as Thai BIBF , Hopewell project, Miyazawa project or the land right case so-called “ Sor-Por-Gor 4-01 “corrupted by Democrat? And do you know what the former Prime minister Chuan’s brother cheated from the bank in last financial crisis. I persuade you to dig down about them a bit then you can find the true. And now they also corrupt nonstop!
The court have sentenced Thaksin for 2 years in prison but I have read the reason and it isn’t directly told that he corrupt but just only against the morality as the prime minister and help his alliance to gain profit from his policies as same as another normal people (yet no prove to support).
For the other most popular accusation is that Thaksin and Redshirt want to overthrow the king. I think that is a very silly issue. I believe that most of UDD respect the king and never drag the king down as the other group did. Yes, there’re some few people who don’t respect to the monarchy but not the whole of the group. It’s different between “disrespect” and “overthrow “. And if they blame that Thaksin has this kind of idea, they should have the solid evidence not just only the connection between him and the others.
In cyber world, you may find that most Thai are against Redshirt. It is so normal, because they are in the educational class. For the poor they have too few ways to discuss which these guys in especially international forums and for the most middle class who think different, they just keep it in mind. It’s dangerous to their social positions. For me, I also have an effect that some of my friends saw what I’ve commented here and gossip about me or try to isolate me. But I don’t care much about it because I’m also sick of that kind of society.
The education in Thailand also makes the gap between people’s minds. In the universities, a lot of professors talk about politic in classes. In their cafeterias, only pro-government TV channels are broadcasted. The student are programmed that they are prestige and smart so that it’s their right to run the country and this is their kindness given for the poor one.( without asking them ,if they like it or not).
For the education, that the middle class guys usually claim that the poor and rural persons are uneducated. I think it isn’t true.
How much education we need to understand politic?
In fact, Thai literacy rate is about 95%. That means almost everyone can read and receive any information they want. And so-called “Educated” in Democracy means how much you understand about democracy, right, freedom and another political nature.
As you see, some of people who claim themselves as “educated “ones, can’t understand about these kinds of issues better than the poor ones. So, that is how the problem goes in Thailand.
For the demonstration, I think that they both make the violence but who stir it first.
From March to 8th April, the protestors had really peaceful demonstration. Meanwhile, both sides had the negotiation but couldn’t come to an agreement because they couldn’t accept the conditions from the oppositions.
The first serious incident happened when the government seized the media station of the redshirt without the court procedure but used the military instead. The protestors came to Thaicom Station to ask it back but they received the tear gas booms and rubber bullets instead.
Next day, the protestors had the demonstration outside the parliament but suddenly, the government thrown the tear gas boom to the protestors. Some of them were angry and tried to break into the parliament. After the negotiation, 20 people could get into the parliament to ask for the reason and responsibility but received no answer. The vice prime minister, Mr. Sutep , who took the responsibility had already gone.
After that the government used this incident to claim the state of emergency and forced the law.
10th April 2010, the government claim that it wanted to ask for the space of Ratchaprasong back from the protestors. But the military with heavy weapons was ordered to troop to Phan Fah Intersection.( At that time, the protest located at two places, the smaller group was at Phan Fah Intersection and the bigger group with main UDD leaders was at Ratchaprosong Intersection). The first protestor was shot by real bullet in the afternoon following with the several in the twilight. The mass killing happened around 8-9 pm. In conclusion, 25 people dead and more that 800 people injured. This is the news from the following morning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8612783.stm
After that incidence the next round negotiation got cancel.
Is that the fault of the protester to have anger against the government after their friends were killed and injured as a consequence by the government action?
28th April, again the government used the military with heavy weapons. The result is the death of a soldier by “friendly fire”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8648109.stm
The government used the video from Aljazeera to claim and rerun several times on Thai media that the one who shot the soldier was redshirt. (Who wore black but, in fact, have the similar uniform as the special police.) After that the Aljazeera report against the government announcement that it’s misinformation and distortion.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/asia/2010/05/01/shot-had-huge-impact
4th May, Abhisit announced his Roadmap and 5 May the UDD received it s principle but asked for the detail and confirmation. PAD was against it and warned that they would have arranged the rally if the roadmap had been applied.
For the Roadmap
Abhisit promised that with his speech (but his speeches usually were altered and forgotten what when the time past). So the UDD accept it with their speech, too. If the government wants the action from UDD side, it should act first. On the other hand, the government added more and more soldiers, cut the infrastructure in the protester area and trooped to kill them ,then call the peaceful roadmap.
When the speech is 180 degrees off the action, what could we call that? A lie?
I suggest to let every parties sign the ratification long ago. Because it is the way to entrust that the Roadmap is the real not just the propaganda to buy the time. In addition, after Abhisit ‘s speech, there’s no evidence to show that this Roadmap can be successful. PAD went against it. Some Democrat member didn’t approve it. The Election Commission said that the prime minister had never consulted it first for his guarantee about new election with them. And they’ve never seen the document about it.
Moreover he has no right to issue new election date. It’s the Election Commission authority. His authority is only dissolve the parliament; promise the date about it then the law and other officer will drive the other step to new election automatically.
So why didn’t Abhisit make what he can make. Not promise the thing he can’t do.
Is it difficult to do the direct thing than the reticent one?
If both sides have any other request, just come to open talk .Eye to eye…side by side…to make a negotiation then agreement.
I see this kind of situation compare to the trading situation. The Government sells their roadmap, the UDD‘s interested in it but don’t please enough about some conditions. So if they don’t come to talk and make a bargain, the trade isn’t success. If they talk and can come to the conclusion, then they both must sign the contract. After that, the government (the seller) must show their product and hand it to the UDD( buyer) ,at the same time the buyer must pay for the goods.
The situation was on hold. The government announced that unless the protestors accept the roadmap without any conditions before 15th May, the government considered using military force to disperse the demonstration.
The problem is that 12th May, Red shirt general got shot and dead after that.
14th May, the Crackdown began before the deadline.
15th May, live fire zone was announced.
The soldiers shot live bullets (most from snipers or rifles) to everyone they can shoot; most of dead and injured ones didn’t have any weapon or tried to harm the soldiers. (Included journalists, normal citizens, nurses, police etc.) And a few protestors had only cocktail bomb, homemade bombs or shotgun.
These are the evidences :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyapbQCWzac
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1469377857410&ref=mf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZeVvmOlAI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfoTuVPY3l4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxAbTIdFKU
http://www.reporterinexile.com/
Afternoon 19th May, the UDD leader surrendered to the police but the shooting game of the soldiers continued. Evening the existing protestors ceased fire.
I used to say long ago that I’m against all kind of the violence because the violence causes the other violence (as action and reaction)
At the end this brings only tragedy. I think this is the result of violence from the government for the past whole month. So after long endurance, they can’t endure it any longer. Under the stress, fear and wrath, you can predict what will happen for the people under the circumstance.
However there’s something I can’t clearly understand, after the surrender of UDD leaders, the situation is uncontrolled, the person who raised the incident after that can be anyone which you can’t identify. From the VDO clip you can only see most people ran away, some people around the burnt down building with anger, few are creasing fire with tires. But this one can’t use as the evidence to tell who is the redshirts, who is normal people who (may be) the third party.
Beside, as I consider about the timeline and the position, at that time the UDD leader had already surrendered to the police and the military could control the most of that area. They can troop to the Pratumwanaram Temple really near by the Central World. Moreover we know that the protesters are friendlier with the police but why did all the officers just concentrate to arrest the protesters but no action to control the fire, if they use so lots of the troop, police and bring the fire trucks or at least let them into the burnt down area (There’re some firemen who were ready in change but they must wait for a long time because the military didn’t let them in.) The situation will be better. So why did they ignore about that fact?
For me, I turned to be more interested in redshirt movement after the black Songkran last year. Before that I never thought to take a side and never care whether red or yellow. But after Abhisit came to power, he not only can’t fulfill his promise but also make it worse. The government holds the judgment procedure of the PAD make an excuse that they’re too many personal witnesses. Now we can see how fast the process of the UDD’s ,even though there’re many more witnesses to ask and prove. And then, the crackdown on black Songkran with I could see the evidence from the other media and the eyewitness my uncle who live in Nanglerng district were very different for what the government report. So I try to research it by myself.
Last, I can’t stand the society that has no mercy for the lack of human right , cruel people who never care about the other’s lives and using ironic words to blame the other without looking back to themselves.
So, I agree with redshirt‘s principle but never support the hardcore and violence. However I analyze it as cause and result. Why are things happened? What is the motivation? And that is all of my opinion.
In fact, I am just one of a powerless citizen. I also afraid of a confrontation in real life. Even if I experience something unsuitable, I’m not brave enough to speak loud against the power in Thai society . For this comment I admit that I also have a bits bias as a normal human.
However I try to analyze the situation by using logic instead of negative emotion.
I want to be one small point of my society to explain what happened to the world.( Yes, also all Thai friends, if they want to listen.) I want to speak for the poor who have so few chance to speak to the world. (And if you see, not every poor are stupid as the rich claim. They have their own ideas . Some attitudes’re really mature. This is one of the VDO clip I invite you to see. The voice of the poor hardly reach the outside world just only because they can’t speak English and there’re to few educated Thai who care about what they say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsh225KsfZU )
The milestone is that I want people to understand the root of the problem and use the reasonable way to solve it.
The riot seems to be ended but it isn’t actually end because the procedure of the government to treat the people who think different still continue against human right. Moreover the people’s attitudes have more gap between one another after this last unrest.
Now, Mr. Abhisit arrests everyone who have connection with the redshirt ,although there’s no evidence to prove ,if they’re the one who take part in the last unrest or not.
The Roadmap is still on hold but practically canceled and Abhisit announced that the commeon election won’t be arranged in this years for sure.
So, this is how the government and its supporters call reconcilation….
Last but not least ,thank you for your understanding and sympathy to all Thai.For foreigners, I think you could help us, too. If you understand and don’t forget the problem when the time past as if it is the flow of the wind. So could I ask you, foreigners , to keep a eye on what happen next.
Best Regards,
Muupan
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9 Steve // Jun 4, 2010 at 1:37 am
Thanks, Muupan. It’s good to hear a different and questioning Thai voice in among all the shouting of simple slogans from those Thai who just want to just dismiss what brought UDD to Bangkok – and to so many rallies around the country.
I think what you have said should be read by more people than will see it here (this is just a re-post of an article that was blocked by the government). Maybe New Mandala would consider posting it as a separate contribution?
In any case, I hope you will also post your thoughts in other places in Thai – so that the questions you are asking can also be considered by others. The government only wants its own “information” to reach them – and that’s not enough; to have any real chance of reconciliation, there needs to be a recognition of painful truths from all sides.
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10 Thomas Hoy // Jun 4, 2010 at 6:06 am
Can anyone explain why the soldiers had pink strips on their helmets in the videos Muupan linked to? I have no theory. It’s just a question.
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11 Nuomi // Jun 4, 2010 at 10:03 am
Dear Khun Muupan,
Thanks very much for your comments and analysis, much of it mirrored mine and the red leaning and recent convert to red-leaning side of my family. Things are certainly much worse now for anyone not-up-there and anyone not-pro-DP (and other status quo factions). Corruption has gotten worse too (even when compared to Miyazaki and SPK401, and I agree corruption under TRT over 5 years is milder at all levels) given how project-starved some of those politicians have been, And as much as I’d love to mention real figures (which I used not to want to because it actually made Taksin look good) I will have to hold back for the time being given the fact that I will have to make a trip back to Thailand soon. This alone tells me Taksin is the preferred PM: I never had to fear being thrown in jail when he was PM and even criticised him face to face before. At most I’d get sued – and seriously, if I said the things I said to him publicly without proof, I certainly can be sued in especially say England.
Now, at the very least, I have to worry about being blacklisted. I also have to worry about my family.
—
Finally, with respect to media control, I hope this will make you feel better. The northern folk are seriously not as ‘closed-up’ as you think. As long as phone connection, email, and mails are still working, I believe they will still be able to get ‘news’ from the outside. Many of my Isaarn friends working here, Australia and Singapore have been working hard at sending ‘news’ home because their relatives and friends no longer watch government TV except for soap operas for entertainment since they feel there is nothing there worthwhile to watch. Here where I am, ‘Ban nok’ workers are asking for help in explaining articles from sources like Economist, NYT and Aljazeera, then writing and sending information home.
If one is to worry, worry for the urbane Bangkokians who still rely on local and government news and kept spouting that ‘farangs’ do not understand ‘Thai style democracy’ and indulge in Taksin-the-Boogeyman scare-mongering. The few Bangkok friends I knew were the ones rushing to the Thai grocery stores every day to snap up the Thai papers to get the ‘real’ news about what is happening back there when these are the ones who can read English.
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There is one way foreign governments can help – that is to withdraw foreign aid (unless it is for improving infrastructure to places that needed it – no more white elephant projects) especially the US money for promoting democracy and military exercises with Thai Army. It is for this money that the illusion of democracy must be maintained in Thailand, get rid of that and perhaps a lot of things will become clearer. It will reduce power of the status quo if they have less corruption money to finance their lives. This will hit Bangkok hard, but will not affect the rural poor much because seriously they have nothing (from those foreign aid) to lose.
Up teacher exchanges into rural schools, volunteer to teach English and teach current affairs to rural schools, find a rural school to patronize and donate classic reading materials etc. You will be surprise how very smart (if without western academic logic base) and good at reasoning these rural people are.
Thanks.
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12 Cleisthenes // Jun 4, 2010 at 10:36 am
The soldiers from different companies (or some other unit) each had a specific color identifier. Some wore colored bandanas. I think it merely a device for the soldiers to easily recognize members of their own unit. This may have been particularly important as their were reports of many mixed companies.
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13 Arouny // Jun 4, 2010 at 1:35 pm
@Muupan
As a close neighbor (Laos), I was beginning to think that Thais are so easily led. You’ve certainly given me faith.
My father is following the Thai media and his head has certainly been turned and he is pro-Abhisit through and through. We can no longer have a reasonable conversation about Thai politics without him going into a diatribe against Thaksin.
Let’s hope there’s many more of your countrymen with the same insight.
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14 xnx // Jun 4, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Muupan: Thanks for taking the time of sharing your experiences & ideas.
It’s encouraging to see some Thais do some critical thinking on their own.
I’m teaching Social Studies in a government school in Bangkok & Critical Thinking is now being emphasized in the National Curriculum, but it’s not easy to teach when there are so many things that you kind of have to avoid bringing up or ask them to question.
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15 anonymous // Jun 4, 2010 at 1:50 pm
#9:
) on them. prior to 19 May it was just ribbons of various colours (some with stripes) pinned to shoulders &/or coloured bandannas as #11 mentioned, not that visible from the back view.
the pink tape made their appearance only on 19 May, & some of us had the impression that it was to prevent friendly fire (given the position on the back of the helmet). the APCs on 19 May also had a pink triangles (wonder if the Thai army knows what it means
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16 wit // Jun 6, 2010 at 3:46 am
PM Abhisit LIE all People in the world!!!!!!!
He Block every Website that Show the truth!!!!
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17 KonThai // Jun 9, 2010 at 11:25 am
@Muupan : Thank you for your opinion. That’s well presentation which can mislead many people but it’s everyone’s judgement to believe or not.
I found this as an unfair opinion. It seems that you are red shirt (UDD) or pro-Taksin. What you said is the same as what’s in red shirt media. I’ve read and seen both red shirts and public media.
I voted for Taksin party in the first election he won because I thought the rich should not be greedy but I was wrong. He did many corruptions for his own and his party benefit. He ignored the southern people and violence problem down south as he said he would help people who vote for him first and the terrorists who already killed thousands of people are not a big deal. His qoute was on media.
Why Khun Muupan didn’t say anything about the corruptions that Taksin did like he changed the laws so he could avoid income tax from selling his business to Temasek in Singapore for huge amount (76,000 MB). Also, he used his power as PM to help his wife winning the auction for land at Ratchada. He was found guilty by the court and then he escaped during the trip to see Olympics game in Beijing. Or you would say the court is injustice like the red shirt say. Every Thai people are under the same laws and same legal system. Taksin has chance to defend himself but he refused and avoid the same law as other Thai people.
You can’t deny that they are paid to be in the protest and only know that they want to bring Taksin back because he and his parties gave them money both on the elections and through national budget and he presented that he would help the poor in the provinces where he won the vote only.
I have friends and know people in provinces who were asked to join the protest with money offerred (Baht 500 per day for joining and Baht 2,000 for those who can make violence and destroy the things).
I don’t blame those poor people but to blame unpeaceful protesters. The peaceful protesters just hope that if Taksin is back, he can make their lifes better. And I hope that the present government considers this challenge and help poor people in sustainable way, not just give away money to them or through national budget to promote their popularity for the next election like Taksin and his parties did.
My friend in rich family who is well educated from US and support the red shirt said to me that the poor people have rights to take money and vote for those who give them money (what we call selling their votes) which is illegal to do. That scared me when people ignore the laws to get what they wants. However, I had pleasant discussion and share ideas with my friend who thinks differently.
I don’t mind if the budget is appropriately allocated to provinces more than Bangkok. At least the infrastructure and the education should be the same between the city and provinces but it’s not and it hasn’t been for long time ago. Taksin’s policy could not help either, his policies just made the province people feel that their lifes are better because they got money from Taksin. However, I admired him for introducing OTOP to help people selling and adding value to their products.
It’s time for people who have more chances to think about helping people with less chances. Also the present and the next governments (any parties) and all those politicians should concern and take sincere actions to ease the gap between the rich and the poor, the city and the provinces.
Our king has worked on helping the province people for over 60 years, for example, he tried to solve drought in north and north-eastern area with artificial rain and dam, spend his own money to help the farmers on research and increasing productivity and give scholarships and free doctor and dentist services in rural areas. He needs more supports from the government and responsible authorities to help poor people.
Those soldiers are from province same as the protesters too. I don’t think that they were greedy for blood and shooting innocent people. Moreover, any number of dead would not benefit the government at all. There are many warzones but the area in the news was the only area allowed life bullet. Friend of my friend is journalist from international media (RT) who was on duty there. He followed soldiers but didn’t see the soldiers shooting any innocent people to dead and no journalist complained about the censorships.
However, he and his journalist friends were shot by unknown snipers when they were on the motorbike to observe the warzone. He knows that they intended to shoot the journalists. He didn’t say that the snipers are from the government because they shot soldeirs and protesters too. He didn’t either say that the snipers were from the red shirts because he did not really know.
I thinks this is needed to be proofed but what I see now is the government and the opposite keep blaming and discredit each others both in and out of the parliament. I wish the politicians are more reliable and responsible than this.
I still see representatives who were leaders of the red shirts debated in the parliament using representative privilege. Now, they are still not in jail. So the government could not jail everyone who has relationships with the red shirts but only jail the leaders of red shirts who presented to cause the violence during the protest and those were jailed with court’s judgment. Now, I hope they will not escape and proof themselves in the legal process.
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