Thailand, for example, asked Google to remove YouTube videos that showed the Thai king, Bhumibol Adulyadej, with feet near his head. A national law bans such offensive representations, [Dorothy] Chou [a Google policy analyst] said, and Google agreed not to show such videos within Thailand, although they are still available elsewhere in the world.
- Extracted from John D. Sutter, “Google: Internet freedom is declining”, CNN, 21 September 2010.
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Prachatai has an embedded youtube of military figures above Wat Pathum during the massacre there, ostensibly taken from police headquarters. Gun shots ring out amid laughter surrounding the person with his or her finger on the camera’s trigger.
Click the YouTube logo in the lower right corner to “see it on YouTube” and you will discover that Google is taking the names of anyone so doing. “Age verification”. What’s Google doing with the names it collects? What’s Google doing with ALL the data it collects? Selling it. For sure.
Clicking
http://www.youtube.com/v/KwPRAMoexBM
will show you the youtube without having to “volunteer” your name to Google. I always hit
Ctrl-Shift-Delete
after touching anything Googlish. And just for good measure every fifteen or twenty minutes or so will viewing the web. I flush ALL data stored by my browser. Have to type more. It’s well worth it in my opinion.
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The Thai lese majesty law and the Thai monarchy are the social stagnation characteristic of agrarian circumstances. The feet at Pumipon’s head simply reflect the conditions for exit from that world; the repressive world of subjecting Thai people and society to a state of subjugation is cruel and inhumane. It shows the courage to challenge repressive status quo with the implication for regime change.
By forcing Thai patriotic leaders in exile and putting some others in jail, the Thai monarchy has thus moved its institution to the position of direct confrontation with the Thai people. As a result, it is inevitable that the country is in transition toward democratization via Presidential System; the President is elected directly by the people and is answerable to the voters. Regime change will bring about a desired political transformation for the country.
Social change is driven by cultural, religious, economic, and technological forces, it is a progressive force for which we should welcome and adjust upon it. Socio-cultural evolution has been moving society forward by dialectic means. The situation and crisis in Siam/Thailand reflects the phenomenon of large-scale social change.
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In Thai culture, feet are synonymous with dirt, shame, disrespect and offence. The head is considered sacred; it represents honour, respect and dignity. Regardless of one’s position on the monarchy or lese majeste or censorship; the simple fact stands: those particular videos were intended to be just about as offensive to the Thai culture as is feasibly possible.
Now, if you supported the censorship of Jyllands-Posten cartoons of the Prophet out of consideration for Muslim religious sensitivities…you are compelled to support the censorship of these videos. Or your position would be indefensible. The level of ‘offence’ is roughly comparable; if equally trite. As every grown-up understands, ‘offence’ must be managed at receiver’s end.
The only real difference between the two examples of provocative media can be found in the stark disparity in the nature of the reactions of the offended parties upon exposure to comparatively provocative insults. One party politely requested the offending videos be disabled from view; the other guys rioted, set embassies on fire, and tried to slaughter the ‘offending’ journalists / cartoonists.
Perhaps something to consider….unless, of course, you assess the severity or legitimacy of an offence by the levels of ‘rabid’ and / or ‘violent’ in the offended party’s response?
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Yes, Jonny, you are right. The Muslim cartoons are an apt analogy with nascent attempts at Thai political speech. I agree that how a person views the repression of dissent by one fundamentalist ideology should be the same as the way one views the repression of dissent by other fundamentalist ideologies.
If one was appalled by the calls for violence and punishment against the cartoonists, one should be appalled by the calls for violence against those who insult the monarchy. And this is not merely a few polite letter to Youtube. There have been massive censorship programs, long prison terms, vigilante campaigns, and the intentional creation of a climate of fear around even mentioning “you know who”.
The cultural relativism argument here is a red herring. This has nothing to do with feet. You could go to prison for suggesting that the Thai people have the right to participate in decisions regarding what form of government they have. This isn’t about hurting people’s feelings, it is about having a public discussion on issue that impact the country’s citizens.
But please do keep pushing the Islam argument. Throw the Catholic Church in there. I don’t agree with the overall point you are trying to make, but recognizing the similarity of reactions among fundamentalist cults under threat will provide immense value. I’ll follow eagerly.
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As I live in Bangkok, I must choose my words…delicately. I think you might be surprised at how closely our views align on a variety of issues. I have been outspoken – in ways perhaps ill-advised – in my firm belief that resorting to lese majeste laws whilst facing a genuine State of Emergency (a genuine national crisis which threatens a great deal more than the sitting government, the domestic economy or the tentative / uneasy ‘peace’ of the last few years) has perhaps been a strategic error; allowing Thailand’s enemies an issue they can seize upon to score easy points in the international arena whilst cultivating otherwise-non-existent revolutionary / violent sentiment amongst the historically disenfranchised but very much conflicted rural classes.
I cannot accept that the writers of Thailand’s constitution ever intended their respectful deference in noting the King’s inviolability (very much representative of Thai culture and almost-universal sentiment, it’s important to note) to be applied in ways which could lead some to mistakenly assume either the King or the monarchy required such protection. Regardless of Western preconceptions towards monarchies (a bias to which I admit I initially subscribed), the simple, undeniable truth is that the vast majority of Thais adore their King and are fiercely proud of the Royal Institution and that neither requires protection. And whilst I respect the fact that freedom-loving, oligarch-wary, tyrant-hating Western liberals (I was – and will always remain – one) will obviously struggle to accept the validity of the below statement, I fervently plead with you all to understand that it is Truth:
There is a tyrant seeking to impose his iron will onto Thailand – a tyrant who believes he is inviolable and above the law – but that tyrant is certainly NOT the beloved King. No, the tyrant who would rend asunder the very fabric of Thai culture if it suits him; an oligarch who is nonchalant about ‘sacrificing’ thousands or tens of thousands of lives in his egomaniacal pursuit of power; willing even to allow – nay, endeavouring to architect – a bloody Civil War purely to satisfy his seething desire for retribution / revenge (though no doubt he hopes for more fanciful end results)….that tyrant is currently, tragically deceiving honourable, decent lovers of liberty into believing that he is the ‘victim’, the ‘oppressed’ premier-in-exile, a democratically-elected ‘patriot’ who was deemed such a threat to the oppressive and ruthless amataya, they tore up the Constitution and sent in the tanks to protect the status quo.
I can understand how and why upstanding, decent folk can be fooled by his rhetoric (scripted by Spin 4 Hire Inc and blasted onto the Western consciousness via unsolicited essays that well-written, but largely fictitious misrepresentation of the realities).
I swear on my life he is the greatest threat to freedom Thailand will face in a very long time. And it – pains me – to see his shills gain traction with those who stand against literally everything he truly represents.
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Hey jonny… your description fits the leaders of the Democrat Party, the Bhumijaithai Party, the ChatThai Pattana Party, the PPT Party, the New Politics Party… which ones are you referring to?
The juxtaposition at the top of the column is Google and lèse majesté. Google’s play with lèse majesté seems regarded as an “aberration”. Google are the neo-liberal “good-guys”.
Check out this Drone Porn site, the “New America Foundation”. They did some “research” and claim that only 30% of the people America’s program of remote controlled, targeted executions in Pakistan are blameless civilians. Even if that were true it would still be a war-crime of truly monstrous dimensions. But its not true. The count on blameless civilians is much higher. The count of those “accused, tried, sentenced, and executed” by a Gameboy on a TV screen is 100%. The Chairman of the Board of the New America Foundation is the Chairman of the Board of Google : Eric Schmidt.
Google is unspeakably evil. Google and authoritarian prosecutions for lèse majesté go together like love and marriage, like a horse and carriage… can’t have one without the other.
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OK, Jonny, or whatever name you use in other comments, it is clear you are a pure propagandist. There is no value in engaging with you as you are just looking for an excuse to shout your message.
Our views are not aligned. They are opposed. I am pretty sure I had this exact conversation with you on the Bhumipol cult thread some months ago although you must have been using a different name. But it was the identical approach. You said, actually our views are very similar, then pasted in the same hysterical rant you used last time.
You cannot fervently plead with someone to agree with you. You have to use facts to convince them. If you try this, we can talk. But for now, be assured that you rant is convincing no one of anything.
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I have never seen the point in anonymity? My name is Jonny and I never assume duplicate aliases. I most certainly was not the person you argued with on some other forum – I’ve hardly really expressed on views on Thaksin until I realised that, outside of Thailand, he was fooling the well-intentioned of the world into believing his costly – fictional – script.
I didn’t realise I’d walked into Thaksin-Country, to be honest – I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant (don’t kid yourselves, military juntas who are not reluctant don’t handball it off like a hot potato) intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
Perhaps I assumed too much. May I ask what you would like to see in Thailand’s immediate future?
For what it’s worth, my answer to the above question would be:
- Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable.
- Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN “not [his] father”…I’m more thinking like The Hague.
- Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis” (the endless bombings etc)
- Red Shirt leaders who incited violence and carnage to face terrorism charges.
- Yellow Shirt leaders who hijacked the airports last year must also be held to account.
- The MICT and internet censorship in general should form the subject of a national debate where Thais (and even guests, perhaps) can discuss ‘offence’, cultural values, the value of free speech (even when, especially when, you disagree with what is being said), etc.
- Further steps to heal the rifts in Thai society undertaken; social welfare programs enhanced, sharing the wealth, giving every Thai citizen a voice, progress towards a more egalitarian society, particularly in the judicial setting.
- An entire overhaul of the electoral system to make representatives answerable to their constituents; strict penalties for MPs who believe they are “for sale”
- Free and general elections by end of 2011.
———
thoughts?
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Jonny
I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
I would assume that we all here know what Thaksin did, but fortunately for me that my memory serve me well as I can track back that the abuse of power were very common among power holder even before Thaksin time, may I say since the beginning of Thailand modern history?
So let me answer your “answer” one by one since I think you got some very “misleading” info there.
Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable
If you even read a bit about Thaksin and really get to know him, Thaksin was worth $1.6 billion in 1995-6 by all mean, he is far from being bankrupt when he took the office, from my understand, you are 17 right jonny? maybe you were not aware of what was going on 10 years ago so I dont really blame you.
Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN
Oh I would love to see that since most of the high profile drug dealing network was being done by people in the barrack anyway so I love to see who will actually get into trouble when some international inquiry took place.
Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis”
If the attack on the empty gas tank even sound more absurd that fire away the investigation.
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I’m not Thai, but I am not at all convinced that Google is on the side of civil liberties. If it does not make them money, why would they ? Google is just a company.
And I do see obsolete laws like lese majeste, criminal defamation and contempt of court being abused in many Asian societies. In many of these I see Google allied with the forces of repression.
Examples? Google in India alleged criminal defamation : http://is.gd/cxTAv (but read http://bit.ly/9F0L0Q for fuller background), http://rtsf.wordpress.com/google-gag/ , Google and India test the limits of liberty http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126239086161213013.html
India is supposedly more democratic (debatable) and if this is Google in India, you can imagine what is possible.
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