I have received a copy of the following letter from a well-informed source. It is being widely circulated via email. I cannot vouch for its authenticity, of course, but its contents (and the fact of its distribution) are sufficiently interesting to warrant publication and comment.
July 29, 2011
RE: VIVACHARAWONGSE OFFICIAL RELEASE
Dear Friends,
This year marks the fifteenth year that we have been living abroad. Over the years, we have received many kind words of encouragement and well wishes over the Internet and elsewhere from the people of Thailand; both from within Thailand and around the world. We would like to express our heartfelt gratitude for your kind regards, and we are thankful that so many of you have not forgotten us. We have realized that some people were curious or had questions regarding our whereabouts over the years. To eliminate confusion and false rumors, we have decided to take this opportunity to disclose our situation.
Over the years, we have been waiting patiently for the order for us to return to Thailand. As yet, we have received no word from our father, His Royal Highness the Crown Prince, nor have we received any type of contact from the Royal Household. In 1996, while studying in England, we were ordered by our father not to return home to Thailand. We were specifically instructed not to use our royal titles and to use the last name “Vivacharawongse” instead. We never, at any time, voluntarily renounced our royal titles nor choose to surrender the “Mahidol” surname. Since we were not receiving any kind of support from the Royal Household, financial or otherwise, we moved to the United States with our mother.
When we were younger, we did not understand the drastic change in our lives, nor could we comprehend why we must live our lives outside of our beloved country. Our mother would remind us that we have to follow the orders of the Royal Family, and to show our gratitude and respect. Our situation, at times, was not at all easy. However, we did not stand idle. Instead we learned to push ourselves to our highest potential, and to behave in a manner that would not bring shame upon the Royal Family.
Juthavachara received a bachelor’s degree in avionics and maintenance and a master’s degree in aeronautical science. After working in the aviation industry, he is now attending law school in pursuit of a Juris Doctor degree. Vacharaesorn, after receiving his bachelor’s degree in political science, a Juris Doctor, and a Master of Law (LLM), is now a practicing attorney. Chakriwat, received his bachelor’s degree in psychobiology with chemistry minor, he is currently attending medical school, and will soon begin his clinical rotations. Vatchrawee double-majored in International Business and Finance, and has a Master of Business Administration. He is now attending law school in pursuit of a Juris Doctor degree.
We are also aware of the many rumors being circulated regarding Chakriwat’s health. The truth is Chakriwat has been battling Neurofibromatosis (type II) since he was thirteen years old. The disease causes tumors to appear along his nervous system, and surgery or radiation treatment is required every year or so to remove or otherwise treat these tumors. Due to numerous radiation treatments he has received, there has been some damage to his acoustic nerve, and he became deaf in one ear. He will receive another surgery in August of this year. Despite having to undergo these exhausting procedures on a regular basis, Chakriwat is determined to complete his medical training.
For many years we have lived our lives in silence, which caused some speculation that we wished to remain abroad. To the contrary, as much as we wish to return, we could not defy orders not to return, or speak out to clear our names. We were afraid to risk even demonstrating the slightest inference of disrespect toward the Royal Family. Many may wonder why we did not speak out against false rumors or allegations against us. The truth is, it is better to suffer in silence than risk harm to the institution. We have never given up hope that, one day, we would receive word from Thailand to allow us to return. Each year, we write to our grandparents, Their Majesties the King and Queen, our father, His Royal Highness the Crown Prince, and our aunt, Her Royal Highness Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn. We would write to give them updates on our lives, informing them of academic progress, any medical issues, and to send well wishes to Their Majesties and Their Highnesses on New Years and birthdays. However, our letters were never answered. The communication has always been one sided.
Many people continue to speculate regarding our situation or to spread false and malicious rumors about us. Rather than addressing these issues in the open, and risk offending the institution, we have chosen to remain silent. We merely wanted to use this correspondence as an opportunity to thank the many Thais who still care about us and remember us, and to state clearly that, every day, we wish to return to Thailand. For fifteen years, we have never set foot in our country, and we miss it far too much. Until we are permitted to return, however, we will remain loyal to the Royal Family, and pray for the future of our country.
We remain faithfully yours,
Juthavachara
Vacharaesorn
Chakriwat
Vatchrawee

What does the photograph represent?
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Portman – It is from the TV show Modern Family. If you have seen the show, it would make more sense.
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First, the private jet issue and this week, the abandoned family speaks out.
Something is brewing.
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Oh dear, his serene majesty the CP is having a hard time of it lately, I expect things are being hurled around – lets hope that ridiculous poodle is one of them.
This is interesting though: “Many people continue to speculate regarding our situation or to spread false and malicious rumors about us. Rather than addressing these issues in the open, and risk offending the institution, we have chosen to remain silent.”
Now why would dispelling false and malicious rumours cause offence to the monarchy? Unless of course there are skeletons to rattle.
I wonder if all this is at the behest of an opposing force within the Palace?
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This is a total fabrication. The letter is released as part of you know who’s movement.
To enlighten you foreign academic scholars, The crown prince and his wife travelled to Florida regularly to visit his ex wife and their sons. You can ask any Thais residing in Orlando, Florida and they will tell you they were all seen together openly. To be exact, at Kissimee county !
There is no such thing as them being abandoned. Even their youngest sister was elevated to HRH princess status. Don’t you think she could have transfer them money if this is the case???
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“I cannot vouch for its authenticity…” VERY academic “Dr.” Walker. I guess tabloid-style gossip now passes as ‘academia’ in Australia now?
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“Tony”, my view is that the authenticity, or otherwise, of a significant document like this is a matter for legitimate public discussion. As your own work amply demonstrates, the general public is the best judge of nonsense. AW
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I’m not in florida, do you Jesse? I’ve read some of cable leaks and it was totally different story. Also their youngest sis been elevated up why woundn’t the others? Check out your comment “dislike” growing
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Looks like a concerted attempt is underway to discredit someone.
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Jesse (5)
How do we know that what you said was not a total fabrication?
1. If the Crown Prince and his wife (I guess your mean Mom Srirat) travelled to Florida often to visit his ex and their sons, why have we not heard this news in Thailand? What is more realistic is that the pair, the Crown Prince and his ex (Sucharinee/Yuwathida/Benz) went through a bitter divorce. She was kicked out of the Crown Prince’s palace. Indeed, it was because of Srirat who plotted to get rid of Sucharinee so that she could become number-one wife. On top of this, the Crown Prince and Srirat came out with a number of allegations against Sucharinee so as to justify their separation (adultery and drug trafficking). Therefore, the three do not have the best relationship.
2. If your side of the story is not fabricated, then why have we not seen photos of them together in Orlando? Com’on, you claimed that many Thais residing in Orlando have seen them together openly, and I assume, amicably. I do not believe that they will keep their mouth shut, as many in Thailand do not know about the Prince’s regular visit to Florida, as you claimed. I am not even sure if Thai diplomats in Washington would know about these so-called visits to the United States.
3. If they have not been abandoned, and again, I assume that they have maintained their good relationship with their father, then why are they not allowed back in Thailand?
4. The issue of their youngest sisters being elevated to the HRH status has nothing to do with them being on “good terms” with their father as you claimed. In fact, it was because the relationship between them was so bad that the Prince decided to elevate Siriwanwalee to become HRH.
5. I assume that you, Jesse, are Thai, since you wanted to “enlighten all foreign academic scholars”. I don’t think your contribution on NM here is part of enlightening those foreign academic.
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If it is not authentic, the fact that it has been released as such is worthy of discussion.
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Their educational achievements alone make them sound like the princes from central casting. Reminds me of Britain in 1745, with Bonnie Prince Charlie (the Young Pretender) in exile in France and King George II on the throne in London. Time to re-write the Skye Boat Song. “Speed, bonny jet, like a bird on the wing. Onward, the pilots cry. Carry the lad who was born to be king, back to the land of the Thai”.
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I have not read a Wikileaks report of the CP being in Florida. I know that he travelled to the Northeast USA when his daughter Princess Bajrakitiyabha received a doctorate of law.
In fact, I do not believe that the CP would visit them in Florida at all. I still remember what happened to Khun Yuvathida when the CP banished her from Thailand. She had been accused of adultery, and had her embarrassing private pictures leaked to the public. When a husband has done those things to his own wife, that does not really suggest that he would still be in good terms with her.
There is a letter from the Thai Ambassador to UK writing to these four guys personally that he acts on behalf of the CP, requesting them to return their diplomatic passports and change the surname. And that letter is indeed authentic, as it comes with the Royal Thai Embassy letterhead and the signature of the ambassador himself. This evidence alone suggests that CP would not be in good terms with his four boys.
I think the letter itself is carefully worded, and the writer took great caution not to offend the Monarchy, with a hope that they can still go back to Thailand to enjoy their royal status.
As for the CP elevating Bussaya Nambejra (aka Princess Sirivanvari) to the princess status, I believe that it has nothing to do with the CP being in good terms with Khun Yuvathida and his four boys. Thai succession law favours a male heir to succeed the throne. Princess Sirivanvari is a female; thus, she is not in a position to compete for her father’s throne, unlike those four guys-all of them very highly educated.
In my opinion (and I would welcome anyone to discuss this to see whether my belief is right or wrong-please do give reasons as well though :p), I believe that the reason these four boys are banished from Thailand is because the CP is afraid that they are potential rivals to his throne.
But again, this is just my assumption
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Was this written originally in Thai? Anyone have a link to the Thai version?
Thanks.
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Are you serious ? Are you wasting your time on this stuff?
I have not read this one yet and I don’t think I will.
It is no creditable reference, it is such a tabloid.
“well inform source” what a joke? If it is something true why they are hiding?
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Simon,
Please have some respect when referring to a senior air force officer.
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It is unlikely the elevation of the daughter could imply good relations with the second ex-wife and the four boys. There were accusations of Yuwatida physically abusing the girl cited by Handley who had the CP personally flying to England to rescue his daughter. Rumours were current before the birth of the youngest that Thaksin was taking care of the educations of the four boys, in case they might be of use to him some day.
Think back to happier times for that earlier family iteration and the publicity photos of CP on pre-fufu birthdays wearing a Saville Row tweed suit smoking a pipe, cast as the loving paterfamilias surrounded by the royal consort with the four strapping boys and two girls and smiling telling reporters he was ready to settle down. Ah well. What the Lord giveth…..
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Jesse #5; Mooyong #10
Rumours of reunion visits are nothing new. In 1997 the Crown Prince and his daughter Siriwan visited Western Australia, where they stayed at Government House as guests of the state governor, Major General Mike Jeffrey, who had been the commander of the SAS Regiment in 1975 when the Crown Prince spent a brief period attached to the unit after leaving Duntroon (and no, he didn’t actually graduate with a well-earned degree, unlike his four elder sons).
At the time it was rumoured in Perth’s Thai community that Sujarinee and the four boys had arrived from London a few days before and had stayed with the CP and his daughter throughout their visit. It was claimed that the CP had expressed regret over the marriage breakdown, which he blamed on his mother’s personal distaste for Sujarinee. Not quite queen material, apparently. All those naughty photographs on the internet, etc.
However, an old army friend of mine who was employed at Government House at the time (as a good commander who cared for his men, Mike Jeffrey hired a number of former SAS soldiers) dismissed the rumours as absolute rubbish. I suspect we can safely do the same concerning the rumoured trips to Florida. CT #13′s assumption appears to me to be quite correct.
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What? Nobody has mentioned the ‘Benz’ phone call tape?
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Mooyong -
1. That means you only chose to hear or read what is of your interest. The crown prince visited Florida with Princess Srirat and the news is all over newspaper and website. They just don’t tell you that he visited his ex wife and their sons. Thais are not Australians. They don’t need detailed news or cables to educated them. As for the allegations made by CP and his wife, sure that was a plan to get rid of her. But are you even allowed to be bitter with your ex husband who is a crown prince ??? Eventually she knew her position and even if she doesn’t have royal title, but don’t forget that she is still a princess’s mother.
2. “I am not even sure if Thai diplomats in Washington would know about these so-called visits to the United States” – duh !
And you never saw the pictures of him in Orlando?
Wat Florida Dhammaram
Call and find out for yourself.
3. “Why are they not allowed back to Thailand ?” – who told you that ? The so called “letter” or “cables” ?? These princes were all at princess mother’s funeral or were they hologram ?
They often go back to Thailand but mainly live in USA. the best thing that ever happened to these princes is for them to grow up like common people. Look how they all turn out !
4. I never associate the fact that the youngest daughter was elevated due to the good terms the CP had with her brothers. Where did you get that impression from ? What i said was that to be abandoned, they would be totally cut out by Royal family.
The princess lives comfortably in palace and been living in Italy and France. Do you actually think she would abandon her own brothers ? That is my point. She has spare money to give them.
CT
“I have not read a Wikileaks report of the CP being in Florida”
Does that mean the truth that comes out of Thailand would have to be based on the cables by American ambassador ? Thai people are not capable of these knowledges ?
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@Portman (#17) said: “Rumours were current before the birth of the youngest that Thaksin was taking care of the educations of the four boys, in case they might be of use to him some day.”
It is an interesting rumour, and it seems to explain the reason why these four boys could manage to live and study in Florida, in which the living costs (and of course the tuition fees) are very expensive, despite them having no income and receiving no financial support whatsoever from the super rich Thai Royal Family.
However, I must say I do not think this is the case. We know that Thaksin and the CP maintain a good relationship, and we also know that the CP does not like these four children of his. If Thaksin really supports these four boys financially, the CP is not likely to like it.
I believe (although I have no evidence whatsoever) that Khun Yuvathida has some assets when she was the CP’s wife (such as diamonds, jewelries etc which the CP gave her), and that she sold those assets in exchange of her children’s education. Of course I have no evidence of this; it is a total speculation.
Anyways, looking at the success of her children, their education and their career, I believe Khun Yuvathida must have been proud of her children very much
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@Portman (#17) said: “There were accusations of Yuwathida physically abusing the girl cited by Handley who had the CP personally flying to England to rescue his daughter.”
—
It is an accusation, that’s right. Whether it is true or not, I guess no one but only Khun Yuvathida and the CP (and maybe the four boys) would know. The four boys had written an open letter years ago saying it is not true, and that the CP flew to London and abducted Bussaya Nambejra (now Princess Sirivanvari) back to Thailand without Khun Yuvathida’s knowledge.
However, I do believe that Khun Yuvathida would not love Bussaya Nampejra as much as she would love her four boys. Rumour had it that Khun Yuvathida had been told by a monk whom she respects that “if she has five male children, she would become a queen.” So the fact that her last child is not a male but a female must have disappointed her a lot.
Despite this, however, I would not think she would abuse Bussaya Nambejra physically. If she has been accused of indifferent treatment towards Bussaya Nambejra, I would think it can be a possibility.
Just my two cents though.
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WLH – 14
I’ve seen the thai version before, years ago, I think around 2008-9.
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Interesting opinion and guessing, how can we find the true? I think those four boys should write a book – it must be a best seller!
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On the subject of neurofibromatosis I realise this is a very sensitive subject and probably not discussed in thai polite society but I do wonder what part the history of genetic disorders plays in the issue of succession.
It is a tragedy that any family member should suffer such disorders because of an outmoded eugenic regime. Sadly the traditional thai point of view is a karmic one so this is obviously a big part of why the issue can’t be discussed. It would explain the search for a suitably distaff heir now that royal polygamy is allegedly unfashionable.
Speaking only for myself I think I would carry immense bitterness for a social system which condemned me to carrying an avoidable genetic illness. No matter what fringe benefits I might accrue.
“As long as you’ve got your health” as my mother would say.
As in the case of the Nexus 6 replicants “The light that burns twice as bright, burns twice as quickly.”
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I have doubt about ” neurofibromatosis” story:
1) it is an an autosomal dominant disorder which means that one of parent must have the disease. I do not notice the CP or his ex has such disease.
2) treatment by radiation?? Never heard of this. There is no treatment for neurofibromatosis.
I think this letter is fabricated.
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- Censored -
[Your previous comment wasn't censored, Jesse. Just held up until I had a chance to edit out some of the contact details which I didn't think appropriate. AW]
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Jesse #5
Could you spare time to ‘enlighten’ one more foreign academic, please?
If “[t]he crown prince … travelled to Florida regularly to visit his ex wife and their sons”, why would it be neccessary for “… their youngest sister [to] transfer them money”?
Are you insinuating that the crown prince visits his family regularly, but won’t give them money? Sounds a bit rude to me.
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Jesse (20)
1. I must be in different planet as I have not heard such ridiculous news of the Crown Prince visiting former wife and children in the States. If the whole thing was some kind of propaganda, then I think the four boys have done better job than their daddy. As all what I have heard was complaints from the boy.
2. What made you believe that Thais don’t need detailed news or cables to educate them? This is insulting.
3. You said, are you even allowed to be bitter with your ex husband who is a crown prince? Well, you seem to suggest here that Sucharinee has no “cards” in her hands. This is wrong; she has four boys. These boys are grandchildren of the King.
4. CP appeared at Wat Florida Dhammaram? There is nothing to suggest that he was there just for his kids.
5. They have been allowed to go back to Thailand? Again, there has been no report on this, even on the pro-monarchy websites (or as a matter of fact, from the anti-monarchy websites)
6. The Princess has spared money to give them? How much are we talking about here? To cover the living costs of all four brothers, plus one mother, and two grandparents who live in the US? Or just a couple of hundred baht as a gesture of brotherhood-sisterhood.
7. True, not everything comes out of WikiLeaks on Thailand is the truth, neither from yourself.
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I fail to see why Yuwathida/Sujarini and Srirat should not get along. They have so much in common.
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@Jesse asked me:
CT
“I have not read a Wikileaks report of the CP being in Florida”
Does that mean the truth that comes out of Thailand would have to be based on the cables by American ambassador ? Thai people are not capable of these knowledges ?
—
Consider how little the information of the Royal Family has been revealed to the Thai public, and the lese majeste law, and the fact that 100,000+ websites have been blocked by Thai authorities, it amuses me why you even bother to ask me if the normal Thai people CAN find out the TRUE information of what’s going on behind the scenes.
Furthermore, you said ‘any Thai person in Florida have seen the prince visiting Yuvathida and his four boys’. Well, why don’t you prove your assertion? If every Thai in Florida has seen what you claimed, at least one out of ten, or let’s say even one of the hundred of those Thais should have taken photos of them being together in an amicably way, I assume? From what you said, it would not be so difficult for you to find such photographs, would you? Find them and prove your assertion please, would you?
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Toni #26
Neurofribromas are treated more often by surgery, but also occasionally via radiation. You might have meant to say that there is no cure for the condition, but there is treatment – you can kill the individual tumors as they erupt – as the letter (legit or not) suggests is happening.
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Meanwhile…Da Torpedo languishes in jail. This topic is supremely facile and indulgent for those who have their freedom.
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@Jesse (and about CP in Florida)
The CP’s website has a photo of him Srirasmi claiming to be taken in Flordia. I’m not sure that this proves anything one way or another, and the photo is dated 2003, which would have been before Yuvathida changed her name and the Prince’s marriage to Srirasmi was announced. So a visit at that point in time (2003) would not quite be the grand reconciliation that it would have been later – even if we had any evidence that he saw/was amiable with Family #2.
http://www.ohmpps.go.th/searchsheetlist_en.php?get=1&quick_type=photo&book=BB2550914&AC_quick_text=&quick_text=
@Diogenes #33 – I quite agree. Too many people are sitting back and saying “the problem of LM will change with royal succession.” Seems a lot to ask all of those imprisoned to just hold on and wait…
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@Seh Fah said:”I fail to see why Yuwathida/Sujarini and Srirat should not get along. They have so much in common”.
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Have you listened to the recorded (leaked) telephone conversation between Yuvathida and the CP, which is widely available to be downloaded online? If you have, you will know that Yuvathida would not want to get along with Princess Srirasmi :p
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Am very curious how an unsubstantiated document could be considered “significant”?
Would this get past any kind of academic peer review?
Likely not.
Surely would be better to work on substantiating this first before starting a discussion on it?
And surely the owners of this blog are savvy enough to realise that Thai politics is often a nasty miasma of false rumour, conjecture and smears?
Truth is that anyone could have produced this “letter” and I am a bit amazed it is up on this site.
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John W
If “[t]he crown prince … travelled to Florida regularly to visit his ex wife and their sons”, why would it be neccessary for “… their youngest sister [to] transfer them money”?
You mixed up the two points I tried to make though. The visit by CP to Florida was to inform that his sons and ex-wife were not forgotten.
The point about the princess is to suggest that it is even more impossible for them to not receiving any kind of support, let alone from his own sister. And to inform you further, she does have a lot of money / access to fund. During Chinese new year alone when she visited China Town, she was given jewelry and diamonds. And now she is on diplomatic mission in Europe and a designer. Having said these, I still doubt that they receive no support whatsoever!
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Mooyong (shredded pork)
Yes, you and I live on different planet. On my planet, we have news of CP and his wife visiting Orlando and Thai people there. They were on daily Royal family news period.
“What made you believe that Thais don’t need detailed news or cables to educate them? This is insulting.”
Excuse me ??
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Andrew Spooner writes (emphasis mine):
Truth is that anyone could have produced this “letter” and I am a bit amazed it is up on this site.
I don’t think this is the case.
For, even though the four brothers are no longer officially royals, to fabricate their names still constitutes quite high a risk, if not legally, at least extra-legally, especially since the content of the letter deals with their father (not to mention their grand parents). The possibility that this could happen is in fact very narrow. (One should also note that, all these years, as far as I can remember, there has never been a single known case of fabricating the names of members of the Thai royal family, at this high up in the echelon, no matter that they are having no titles at this point in time.) Moreover, the content of the letter seems very authentic too.
But, of course, like everyone else, I cannot give an absolute guaranty of the letter’s authenticity either.
However, when I received the letter via email earlier this week, I actually put it up on my facebook, with passages heavily censored. (I showed only the first, forth and fifth paragraphs of the letter.)
I also told my readers (apart from the points I made above) that the content of letter, the part that I censored, could be said to have been contradicted, at least somewhat, by a passage in a WikiLeaks cable, 05BANGKOK868, dated 2 February 2005, paragraph (9). In the cable – which for legal safety reason I can only say vaguely here – there is testimony by Chirayu (the CPB’s Director) that there had been, at least once, some contact, or more accurately some initiation of contact, and that there was some offer of financial help. (Please see the details for yourself.)
Now, even this apparent contradiction could not be said to constitutes decisive proof of the letter’s fabrication, for there could be a possible explanation for it (the mother could have kept the contact secret from the children, for instance).
So, having informed my readers of all the uncertainty about the truth of this letter, I nevertheless put it up, for similar reason I understand why NM put it up here, namely, it is quite interesting in the context of the current political upheaval in the country, although I of course could not have written an extended analysis like ajarn Andrew Walker did on another post. (I also thought that, by putting up the letter, I might have provoked some feedbacks as to its authenticity. There were in fact one or two messages to me, giving some further info which is quite interesting but which I could not go into details here.)
In the end, though, after a day or two, I decided to “remove” my post on this letter from my facebook, given my own legal and political situations, and given that the version I could put up had to be heavily censored anyway.
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Toni @26 seems correct in saying that neurofibromatosis is an autosomal dominant disorder, which means it’s caused by a mutant gene and occurs even if the mutant gene is inherited from only one parent. See this definition at http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=60073.
So if a child has it, it’s likely that at least one parent has the disorder. But if a person has the disorder, does it have to be obvious to others, as Toni suggests? I don’t know. Maybe one can conceal the disorder, yet still raise suspicions about one’s health by traveling frequently to unannounced destinations.
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The other temple that “They” visited is Watnavaram Buddhist Temple in Sanford, Florida. This is where she currently lives.
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It appears that about 50% of neurofibromatosis cases are not inherited, but spontaneous mutations.
So it is by no means a necessity that one of the parents has the condition as well.
sources:
wikipedia
Centre for Genetics Education, Australia
Neurofibromatosis in monozygotic twins: a case report of spontaneous mutation
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wow ANU has become Tabloid. I don’t want my tax to be spent by this bunch of ‘academics’. A lot to say about your centre folks!
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Jesse (38)
Yes exactly, excuse me!
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Just to clarify on the question about neurofibromatosis.
It is not uncommon for neurofibromatosis to result from spontaneus genetic mutation. It is not unexpected.
Radiation is a treatment modality along with surgery for symptomatic neurofibroma esp acoustic neuroma as mentioned in the letter.
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Mooyong (44)
No, not exactly. You have been altering words and meanings of my posts. You even disregard the question mark of my post 38 and assume the meaning of your own !
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Jesse (46)
I didn’t just disregard your question mark, but the whole of your unconvincing argument.
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CT #21. Of course Thaksin’s financial sponsorship of their education was pure rumour and speculation and, if true, he would have had to be very discrete to avoid annoying their father. Nevertheless they seem to have had some one with extremely deep pockets financing their educations. The motive is clear and he has the financial wherewithall, so he must remain on the list of possibles, unless other evidence surfaces.
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Mooyong (47)
That explains your silly responses because you already disregarded my comments and made up your own points.
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The letter is authentic. A ‘Times’ reporter confirmed this in an email exchange with the second son, Vacharaesorn, who works for a big law firm in New York State. An article on the subject can be read here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article3115503.ece
In correspondence, I understand, the authors of the letter were unwilling to add anything substantive to the content of their publically circulated letter.
(In anticipation of complaint, yes, ‘The Times’ website is behind a paywall. But it costs one pound for which you get the whole site for a whole month. If anyone thinks this is too much, I’ll pay them back myself next time they are in Tokyo…)
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Not to be overly pessimistic, but if Ajaan Andrew or Ajaan Nich can vouch for authenticity of Khun Richar Lloyd Perry, this would put this issue to rest, completely…
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Anonymousth #50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lloyd_Parry
cheers.
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I noticed that The Times article which can be read for free on The Australian’s website quotes Andrew Walker without mentioning that Andrew is the one who publicised the letter here without being to confirm its veracity. It’s getting a bit incestuous.
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Portman #52
The Australian‘s report, though quoting The Times‘s, is not the reproduction of the latter, which is much longer (12-13 paragraphs, compared to five or six in The Australian).
The part in The Times‘s report that verifies the letter’s authenticity comprises only one short part of a sentence, which read (my emphasis):
“… the four men write in a letter which has been verified by Mr Vacharaesorn, now a practising lawyer with a firm in New York state”
Is this enough? I would think so: I cannot see whyThe Times would make up such matter.
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DK // 42
My reason for the reference to co-sanguination and genetic illness was a general comment sparked by the reference to neurofibromatosis. I did not mean to infer directly that the individual was suffering because of this but to promote thought on the part that co-sanguination plays on the psychology and awareness of inflicted individuals through history.
Be they Hapsburgs, Windsors, Ptolemys, Chakris, Heirs to the Chrysanthenum throne or Le Prieur de Sion. It is a genetic tendency based on survival instinct to keep money, wealth influence and ultimately power in the family. (Just look at the Thaksin or Murdoch dynasties)
My question goes to institutionalised co-sanguination and it’s psychological more than medical impact and how modern day dynasties deal with the fallout or not. (See NottheNations article on not mentioning Nepal!)
Of course in cases of supreme power one loses ones sense of perspective. If you look at the excess and demise of Elvis, Howard Hughes and Michael Jackson condemned by the sycophancy of their employees -”Another burger Elvis?” “Another glass of urine Mr Hughes? ” I’m sure you will look quite stunning as Elizabeth Taylor Mr Jackson?”
Where’s Jeeves when you need him?
OK so far, so tabloid, but there’s a kernel of truth to be winkled out here and there but for fortune, go you or I.
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Portman- come on. If you’re going to take such a strongly worded critique, that article in the Australian was clearly not the same as the article in The Times.
Thank you, Ajaan Somsak, for providing the quote.
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Roy #54
My intentions were merely to set the medical facts straight since toni #26 refuted the authenticity of this letter based on his incomplete knowledge of this disease.
Your comments are surely an interesting contribution, regardless of whether said person actually suffers from the disease or not, and if so, by what means the mutated gene developed.
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Walker, the only thing worse than being completely wrong and getting caught abusing your academic credentials and platform to peddle your paid-for political agenda with crass gossip is to then lie about it and further insult the intelligence of your audience.
I propose that you, Andrew Walker, made it this far simply because no one truly informed has shined the light of truth on you – sort of like Prachatai who is now completely exposed as almost exclusively funded MILLIONS of baht a year by the US government yet still has the audacity to call themselves “independent journalists.” Shoulder shrugs and “who cares?” punctuates their fading legitimacy and relevance as people look into the backgrounds of the absolute degenerate neo-con war criminals that are entirely sustaining Prachatai’s existence.
You had to lie and censor my comments in the past to cover up your own dirty little secrets and overt lies regarding the Lowy Institute and who is really behind your unprofessional intellectually sloven treatment of the daily news and hijacking of liberal progressive ideals to promote what is really a corporate fascist agenda of globalization- but you know that won’t work forever. So enjoy the dusk of your ignominious career – an ignominious ending you have surely earned with your shameful duplicity.
PS we both know who has the larger audience and the longer reach as well as the growing disparity between us in terms of credibility – despite your constant use by the corporate-funded media shills as an “academic expert” on Thailand. Again, you insult the intelligence of your audience, not me, when you make such factually bankrupt comments.
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Wow, Tony (57), do I presume that you and Mr. Walker don’t see eye to eye?
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Never mind Andrew,
When you start getting praise from ‘Tony’ that’s the time to worry.
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Slow me has only just caught up on this amazing story. Why dont I get notified about new posts on NM ?
A rather sad story about 4 boys from a highly dysfunctional family and certainly not all fake if one can believe this website:
http://www.goldbergsegalla.com/attorneys/vacharaesorn-vivacharawongse
The only comments that I could spot showing any sympathy for the people involved came from Roy Batty. Good on you Roy.
Reading the letter makes me a little less inclined to wish for the Nepalese solution or to take it further a period under Pol Pot.
There is good news there. The story quashes one rumor namely that the children of Sia Oh had disappeared in England and perhaps he had had them done away with.
I do hope that somebody is writing a book – “The Prince Ever Flies” for those interested in modern royal politics.
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It seems to me that the boys benefitted from being abandoned in England by their father. Their educational and professional achievements are their own, and they are clearly capable of making their own way in the world, on their own merits. Good on them. And any one of them would make a far better crown prince that their father.
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Seh Fah said: “It seems to me that the boys benefitted from being abandoned in England by their father. Their educational and professional achievements are their own, and they are clearly capable of making their own way in the world, on their own merits. Good on them. And any one of them would make a far better crown prince that their father.”
———-
*cries* No!!! I support CP as the next King. Look forward to have Princess Srirasmi as the next Queen. She is so beautiful I cannot wait for Thailand to have her as its Queen ^^
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CT “*cries* No!!! I support CP as the next King. Look forward to have Princess Srirasmi as the next Queen. She is so beautiful I cannot wait for Thailand to have her as its Queen ^^”
Typical. All anyone is concerned about is beauty. Skin deep appearances. No one really cares about the problems facing the country or what could be done to solve them. And let’s start at the top. A decent leader like the present King would do wonders for the image of the Kingdom. A playboy is only going to send it further down the tubes.
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Dan #64
Please note: New Mandala has space for humorous, eccentric and cheeky input. I suspect CT stands for “cheeky Thai”.
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Dan – 63
Surprised that you didn’t get the sarcasm there.
Anyway, if the King is really as decent as you said Thailand should be a much better place.
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Guys, my support for Princess Srirasmi being the next Queen is genuine. I was not being sarcastic. I REALLY want her to be the next Queen. She is beautiful, arguably the most beautiful Queen-to-be of this era. I also have other reasons, but I abstain from saying them.
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CT #67
As a devoted admirer of the lovely Princess Srirasmi, perhaps you could confirm or deny a few rumours for me:
Apparently Srirassmi was “in the crown prince’s service” for several years before the marriage.
(1) Is Srirasmi related to Sujarini?
(2) Did Sujarini arrange for Srirasmi’s job “in the crown prince’s service” ?
(3) Were Sujarini and Srirasmi in the same line of work before joining the crown price’s household?
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ขอพระองค์ ทุกๆท่าน จงทรงพระเจริญ ข้าพเจ้า เอาใจช่วย
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All due respect, why don’t you guys just email K. Vacharaesorn through his email on the link above and ask him all these rumors or doubts regarding what has been discussing here. If the letter wasnt fabricated he should be willing to reveal the truth??
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The letter is genuine, written by the boys themselves. They are now well educated young men who, although ever respectful of the Royal Family, think the world need to know the truth about their exile.
Sujarinee is a wonderful mother and can take credit for how she has raised her sons. They are comfortable in any situation and not only a credit to their mother, but to their country – Thailand.
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Kev @ 72:
Wow! Thanks for that confirmation! Say, what’s your source?
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First hand knowledge.
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ฉันเป็นคนไทย และใช้แต่ภาษาไทย และที่ฉันเข้ามาหยอดในที่นี้ เพราะหมั่นใส้ฝรั่งต่างหาก ที่มา discuss เรือ่งของคนไทย อย่างกับเป็น expert
และที่พิมพ์ออกมา ก็ไม่ได้เอา source มาจากไหน เพียงแต่ออกมาจากสมองของตนเอง
แน่นอนฉันไม่รู้เรื่องอะไรมากมายว่า ใครเป็นใคร
ฉันอยู่ที่อเมริกามาหลายสิบปี นานๆกลับไปเที่ยวเมืองไทย
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AL #75 อยู่อาเมริกานานแล้ว ยังไม่รู้จักคำว่า”เสรีภาพ”หรือ
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In C#39, Somsak Jeamteerasakul raised potential doubt regarding the letter’s authenticity due to the apparently contradictory accounts of CP’s financial support (or lack of) in the letter and in WikiLeaks cable 05BANGKOK868.
However, careful reading of the letter suggests there may be no contradiction at all.
In 1996, while studying in England, … Since we were not receiving any kind of support from the Royal Household, financial or otherwise, we moved to the United States with our mother.
Note the dating of this lack of financial support some considerable time in the past as well the clear use of “were”. I believe there is no indication at all that financial support did not materialise at some point in time after the move to the US and that this support is, in fact, ongoing. There is no suggestion to the contrary and nor is there any mention of enduring financial difficulties in the rest of the letter. If I am wrong then I believe quite different language would have been chosen to elicit more sympathy. As it is, it probably is a small grab for sympathy with the hope that it would be misinterpreted (as it clearly has) to be a more significant statement on the severity of their abandonment, though I may just be being cynical on this last point.
It is almost impossible to believe someone with deep pockets hasn’t been chipping in given the educational and medical expenses that must have been incurred over the years. It would make much more sense that it was their father (ruthless but not heartless) than anyone else. At the very least, if it was anyone else, then they probably have more to lose than gain politically if their generosity had not been approved by the CP.
This interpretation is backed up by WikiLeaks cable 05BANGKOK868 and would help explain, this letter not withstanding, why their public statements on the issue have been non-existent. It beggars belief that they could actually believe it is better to suffer in silence than risk harm to the institution . Really? Why? After all they’ve gone through, they still have to suffer for the glory of His Majesty? I don’t buy it. Even Thai-level propaganda can’t correct for their first-hand experiences of what really goes on behind palace walls. More likely to be a case of not wanting to bite the hand that feeds, or not wanting to burn too many bridges (both understandable, but please spare us the lies about loyalty).
While the letter is certainly enlightening, and not without a fair amount of courage, there’s clearly more to this whole sordid situation than the authors let us in on. I wait with anticipation for the next more frank and honest account. Man, if those guys really wanted to, they could bring the whole show down with what they know. Then again, that’s my wish, and probably not theirs, so good luck to you boys and your mum with whatever path you take.
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Treble – surely these lads are in line for the throne and few in that position would wish to destroy the institution which might bring them enormous wealth and prestige?
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Ricky (#78)
Yes you are quite right. They may well be future contenders (not too sure about in-line though) and therefore have plenty more to lose than gain by going on an all out attack. Hence my reference to not wanting to burn too many bridges.
I didn’t want to come across as attacking them really – I perfectly understand their position. It is entirely rational.
My main point though is that this letter needs to be considered a little more carefully and cynically than some posters here have treated it. Don’t take everything said in it, particularly the issue of financial support, as an accurate account of what has really happened. While there is plenty there to interest Thai observers, there is plenty more (deliberately) left unsaid. As you point out, there is a lot at stake that really limits their capacity to be fully honest. As long as we keep that in mind we may realise that we are still almost as much in the dark as we ever were about the internal machinations of the Thai Royal Family.
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I hope the other aunts are not too upset at missing out on the annual correspondence.
(they seem very personable, so perhaps that would be a better route for the family contacts?)
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To Acid Burn,
R u a buffalo? If not hiding, do u know who r u playing with? If u r in Thailand, u might drag to jell!!
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This is bullshit. I hope people are not stupid enough to believe that it is real…not just the letter but everything. You WOULD keep in touch with your family no matter what. One way or another everyone would and thats just the logic itself.
The 4 princes have good lives and upbringing check out their educations and what they do. We are happy for them more than anything. Something is better left unsaid but there are those who are curious but too much of the curiosity creates one’s hobby and this seems to be it. Pictures are easy to find on the internet anyway. A friend of mine has a several on her facebook with one of the prince (makes sense since they went to the same law school) its no secret but most people just dont want to talk about it because well it’s none of our business, right?
The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes…I mean hello why now and not before? Good professional, highly educated men would not waste their valuable time doing this…in fact they have obviously moved and gotten on with their lives long before!
I just can’t imagine myself being the person that they are having that life and future going for them…would waste the time on posting letters and pictures hoping to get the attention that they never received for nearly 2 decades. Period.
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@Vorawan – 82 wrote:
“The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes”
If you have read all the replies in this thread carefully, you would notice post #50 by Richard Lloys Parry which said this:
The letter is authentic. A ‘Times’ reporter confirmed this in an email exchange with the second son, Vacharaesorn, who works for a big law firm in New York State. An article on the subject can be read here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article3115503.ece
—
I hope the above confirmation is clear. Have a good day.
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Thanks to CT for the link to the pay to read website of Rupert Murdoch.
Please copy and paste the text here for all to read.
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Response to Ricky #84:
I shall copy and paste post 43 of Ajarn Somsak Jeamteerasakul then. He had read the article, and had copied and pasted the relevant parts, quoted from the Times.
Ajarn Somsak (post 43) wrote:
“The Australian‘s report, though quoting The Times‘s, is not the reproduction of the latter, which is much longer (12-13 paragraphs, compared to five or six in The Australian).
The part in The Times‘s report that verifies the letter’s authenticity comprises only one short part of a sentence, which read (my emphasis):
“… the four men write in a letter which has been verified by Mr Vacharaesorn, now a practising lawyer with a firm in New York state”
—–
I assume that the confirmation from the Times is an evidence which is strong enough to confirm the authenticity of this letter. If you are going to accuse that this letter is BS again (as I have seen in this thread countless times), you better have a really good evidence which shows that Times was lying. Oral accusation from Manager/ASTV or royalist Thai Televisions don’t count :p
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ขอให้ท่านชายทั้ง 4 แข็งแรงครับ
จากคน ๆ นึง ที่เกือบจำไม่ได้แล้ว มันเลือนลางมาก
เพราะตอนนั้น เด็กมาก ๆ ๆ อายุ ผมแค่ 7 ปี
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I think there is something wrong about this. I mean the four boys were not taken back to Thailand back then by the Crown Prince, yet he took the Princess back with him. There must be some reason as to why the princess was taken back and not the four boys.
And then I guess there is also something weird in what these four boys said. These four boys said that every year they wrote letters to their grandparents the King and Queen and their father the Crown Prince, but, there is no mention at all that they wrote letters to their sister. This means that they are trying to restore their royal titles and everything else that comes with it and they see that the only one who has the power to restore them were their grandparents and their father.
And come back to the fact that they were not taken back by the Crown Prince back to Thai with him when he took their sister and his refusal to have any contacts with them led to further suspicions. Could it be that these four boys are not royal princes at all??
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