On 27 July 2011 the Thai Embassy in Canberra was involved in organising a very interesting meeting at University House at the Australian National University (the photo above shows a much earlier gathering of Thai students in Canberra).
The guest of honour was Surapong Jayanama, Director of the Saranrom Institute of Foreign Affairs, which is funded by Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs to “facilitating interchange on foreign policy issues and to fostering a better appreciation and understanding of international affairs.” Surapong, who was formally formerly ambassador to Germany, is closely linked to outspoken critics of Thaksin Shinawatra, including his brother Asda Jayanama and former Foreign Minister, Kasit Piromya. Surapong is no stranger to the ANU, having previously led the post-coup public relations delegation on its visit to the National Thai Studies Centre in August 2007.
Thai students from the ANU and the University of Canberra were summoned, via their association’s Facebook page, to meet with Surapong. The Embassy’s education office was also represented. I don’t have the precise details of Surapong’s address to the students, but it included general attacks on Thaksin and a defence of the 2006 coup. Students were urged to defend Thailand and the monarchy from attacks by foreigners and to avoid being influenced by some of the things they may hear about Thailand while studying here in Canberra. The location of the meeting at ANU was no coincidence, given Surapong’s concern that academics associated with New Mandala were involved in activities that were unfriendly to Thailand. I understand that I was referred to in very impolite terms (apparently Surapong has something of a reputation for his use of colourful language).
I have no problems with universities being used as a place for discussion and debate of contentious issues. But this meeting strikes me as being a little strange for two reasons.
First, this meeting took place more than three weeks after the July 3 election. Why is the Director of a government-funded institute involved in attacking figures who are very close to the new government and defending an illegal coup against the new government’s political allies in 2006? I can accept that figures like Surapong may have little respect for the constitutional rule of law but surely some respect towards the incoming government would be appropriate, especially given Surapong’s close association with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Second, why are Thai government representatives involved in back-room attempts to influence or guide the thinking of students studying in Australia? International students come to Australia to participate in a free and open academic culture. They come with diverse political views and, no doubt, they leave with a similarly diverse mix of opinions. That’s what education is all about. Thai government officials would be very welcome to come to universities in Australia and present their points of view and engage in open debate. But this sort of behind-the-scenes cajoling of students (many of whom are on Thai government-funded scholarships) is not welcome in Australia’s open and inclusive academic culture.
Officials who will not do their duty by faithfully implementing the policies of the elected Government should be replaced. Once that happens they can say what they like. That is how democracy works.
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Andrew, you sound surprised.
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As we know that Thais are passionate. Why don’t we try to learn a way of understanding a globally diverse discussion (“in a free and open academic culture”)?
No matter where they got the fund from (either the govt. or the private fund), but they need to realise that what they have learnt while studying abroad. Thinking only inside the Thailand’s box is better??
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So, it is OK for foreign academics with only a superficial knowledge of Thailand and the current issues to criticize the country, it’s established systems and institutions, but it is not acceptable for a Thai national to comment on the people doing the criticizing ?
Is this what is termed “Double standards”?
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Soonuk Dum, why didn’t Surapong invite the academics he criticised to his talk? Cowardice?
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I think the photo was taken on the occasion of the crown prince’s birthday in 1975, his last year as a Duntroon cadet.
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FYI:
http://www.nitipoom.com/th/about1.asp
ถูกส่งกลับราชอาณาจักรไทยขณะกำลังเรียนชั้นภาษา ข้อหาฝักใฝ่ลัทธิการเมือง
A Thai student in Australia was sent back to Thailand for political reasons!
Andrew, I have two contradicting complaints. Though they are contradicting, I will tell you both anyway.
a.) Why does it take you so long time to post this? It has been three weeks since the incident. People who were there has forgotten the boring speech Surapong made and may not contribute to this discussion.
b.) As I give you an example above, that ThaiGov-funded students are vulnerable. Do you think posting here will not do them harm? I suspect that they might get into trouble because of this post.
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Dr. Nitipoom Navaratna’s website refers to an incident that took place 32 years ago. At the time he called himself Nittiphum Yuphrom. He was a Thai Army cadet and in June 1979 he arrived at the RAAF School of Languages at Point Cook to begin a six-month intensive English language course prior to entering the Australian Army Officer Cadet School at Portsea. Within a month he had been withdrawn from the course and sent back home because of suspected involvement with the Communist Party of Thailand. A pity, because he was clearly capable, idealistic and determined to do well. Had he graduated from Portsea he would have been only the second Thai to do so, the other having been Thaksin’s cousin, Surajet Chinawat, in 1961. Surprisingly, he went to serve in the Thai Police.
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> “Surapong, who was formally ambassador to Germany”
Are we supposed to read this as ‘formerly’ or are you referring to the capacity in which he attended the event?
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Jon – thanks. My apologies. It should read “formerly”. Now corrected. AW
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Maybe like you, he has a strong opinion? And I hardly think you qualify for the ‘rule of law’ camp Andrew when it comes to issues of electoral fraud and vote buying. Your attitude to governance frequently makes me cringe.
How can you speak of debate and an open and inclusive educational culture while suggesting that he should have kept his mouth shut? I’m sure the students are capable of making up their own minds. Better that they hear a range of opinion than a monologue from (sorry but its true) western academics living in Canberra.
If he’d launched into a glowing All Hail Thaksin rant, would you have written a similar article about it? I very much doubt it.
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Here’s a little research suggestion . Can somebody at ANU have a look at Facebook and see what comments about this event came from the students? Or were they all so intimidated by this Pu Yai to say anything?
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@Soonuk Dum
Don’t be surprised if you get a lot of ‘red thumbs’ for this kind of comment from NM commentators. It goes straight to their heart.
When comes to ‘a superficial knowledge of Thailand’, I have three interesting examples to share:
- I have a Farang friend who can talk or opinion on everything about Thailand and also sees himself as ‘an expert’ on Thailand (political, social etc). When asked how he becomes such an expert, he said he has been living in this country for 5 years and have a Thai wife.
- A Farang academic once asked me if I knew someone who was ‘an expert’ (again) on Thai culture. When asked to clarify the word ‘expert’, she said someone who published their works on Thai issues. …… I ended up finding another ‘Farang expert’ to talk to her…..Unfortunately, I, as a Thai, live my whole life in this culture but not qualified as an expert….Perhaps, I haven’t published any paper.
- Another Farang academic with a PhD in SE Asian cultures who seems to know a lot about SE Asian cultures (of course). He said he would know/understand more of these cultures than his own. When asked ‘what is the culture of your own?’ He was speechless…
Well, I guess, with this posting, I would get more ‘red thumbs’ than you, Soonuk Dum
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If you really appreciate the freedom of speech, then I do not see why you should be concerned or bothered about this.
They are expressing what they believe in, just less bullying in style !
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Oh, I see. Surapong was here to encourage students to participate in free and open academic debate. Of course. My mistake.
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This is only true when they are outside their Liarland. Most of the guys closely allied with the Amart are very irrational and vicious within their own territory.
I can accept their views expressed honestly but can’t accept their lawless and stupid acts backed by big men higher up their hierarchy.
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We all live in the Liarworld, with politically correctness, different cultures and customs. We just need to learn to have respect for each other.
Australia has its “problem” with motorcycles people and people who fight for their religions, I never see any “academics” dare to give bad comments about them. It is easier to bully the people who you expect not to fight back !
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Nawat — 13
Thanks.
I have no doubt that Andrew Walker and his colleagues have a wonderful academic knowledge of Thailand.
In fact I am sure they could expound at length about the shape, length and colour of fingernails in the time of King Rama II. And that may well be of interest to some.
But it is not at all relevant to Thailand today or the issues they like to comment on with so much assumed authority.
Instead of buying into, and regurgitating the rubbish that Thailand is engaged in class struggle of noble Prai against evil Amart, perhaps they should do some research.
(Actually I thought research was part of the academic process)
It could also be to their advantage to realise that Thailand is not Australia or the US.
Thailand has a completely different history, culture, traditions and set of rules governing acceptable behavior.
Dr. Walker and his colleagues may not agree with these, and that is their right, but they do not have the right to try and impose their systems and beliefs on others, especially when their own society is falling down around them.
(And BTW, I do not claim to be an expert either)
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Nawat – 13
So, what does it take for Farang to be an expert in Thailand study? I didn’t mean to look down on Thais but some of Thais don’t even know the different better 6 Oct 1976 and 14 Oct 1973, some even wrongly mention 16 Oct of some unknown year. While many “farang” can pretty much retract all the event from the beginning till the end with accuracy.
When people like Ajarn Somsak or Ajarn Thongchai (who are pretty much 100% Thai) made the comment about how “broken” Thailand is, can you even use the same argument against them that proven that they are also “superficial”?
I really have no objection on good argument, but just brushing aside some argument from farang just because you think they don’t know enough of “Thainess” is grossly prejudice.
Can you explain to me what is “Thai culture” means to you? and perhaps for many regular Thais here like myself and CT?
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Some of the points made on this thread (and on others) criticising academic claims to expertise are reasonable. The academic world is sometimes overly preoccupied with standard measures of excellence such as academic journal publications (often in journals that have a very small and very specialist readership). Indeed, one of our primary goals in establishing New Mandala was to extend academic discussion of mainland southeast Asia to a much broader audience and involve many more voices in these debates. Based on the regular feedback we get from readers in Australia, Southeast Asia and other parts of the world, I think we have been relatively successful in this. I know some of you may not believe this, but we really do welcome contributions from all points of view.
But some of the criticisms of academics expressed here are way off the mark. Jesse suggests that academics in Australia are not involved in commenting critically on Australian social issues. Seriously? Soonuk Dum suggests we are “regurgitating the rubbish that Thailand is engaged in class struggle of noble Prai against evil Amart”. No doubt some contributors to New Mandala would frame their arguments (roughly) in these terms. But I don’t, nor do I think this is anything close to a majority opinion among academic commentators on Thailand. The main thrust of my commentary over the past few years has been to reject such an argument. I am much more interested in the new politics of “middle-income peasants” who are supported by the state rather than the old “prai” who struggle against it. I doubt I have ever used the terms “prai” and “amart” in my writing (either here on New Mandala or in other places) except to note that some have framed political divisions in these terms. So, Soonuk, who are you arguing against here?
Criticism of academics, and academic argument, is very welcome on New Mandala. But it would be good to focus the criticism on specific arguments that specific people have actually made, rather than create imaginary foes.
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Tarrin 19
“While many “farang” can pretty much retract all the event from the beginning till the end with accuracy.”
I think you are the one with prejudice against your own people. You might be thinking about the Thai people who are not very well educated about its history against Farangs who are well educated about the subject matter.
Perhaps you can try asking Farangs in Australia to sing their national anthem and you will be shocked to find out that many of them don’t even know the words !
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@Soonuk – 18
Points taken!
@ Tarrin – 19
I don’t know ‘how many years’, Tarrin. Just wanted to share some stories for you and your friends….to think….
Oh, I asked my Farang friends about the 6th & 14th Oct to test your claim (hypothesis?) – ‘while many “farang” can pretty much retract all the event from the beginning till the end with accuracy’. They seemed to have no cue at all….very disappointed…. Should I ask NM commentators or my Farang neighbours, Tarrin? I may get a better response.
Tarrin, when I read your comment I start smiling
When I, as a Thai, smile, it doesn’t mean I like or am happy with your comment.
Perhaps, I tried to cover up my embarrassment for posting the comment above…. or maybe I was too nervous or didn’t know how to answer your question (and this, again, according to a Farang expert on Thai smile).
Don’t forget to smile, Tarrin. It is a part of your culture…..(if you have not already forgotten it)
Red thumbs, pleaseee….
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“Thailand has a completely different history, culture, traditions and set of rules governing acceptable behavior”
For once I agree with Soonuk Dum.
(A few notorious examples which come to mind are 18 or more coups in 80 years and nearly as many constitutions, 3 people executed for the R8 death, and lets not forget the hundreds of protesters massacred just because they dared to want democracy)
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Thais often state that farangs don’t understand Thailand. Even for those that have lived there for decades and speak the language fluently, only Thais have the expanded intellect to understand their own culture, not that this is ever used as an excuse to cover inappropriate behavior of course.
The bureaucracy in Thailand often has their own agenda at odds to that of the government of the day, just look at 3G. The police tend to implement what ever immigration regulations that appeal to them, the army decides its own foreign policy and has a liking for coups. For a bureaucrat to rubbish Taksin is hardly surprising, at worst he could be transferred to an inactive post with full salary and benefits.
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Nawat – 21
I don’t really get what you are trying to say here. My point is, what does it take to be “expert” about Thailand study. And no, smiling was not part of our culture until very recently, if you want to get technical about “our culture” then we shouldn’t be wearing our top because that was Thai culture.
Really, is “smiling” the answer to everything?
Jesse – 20
I was not prejudice against my people, I was just making a point that it is just shallow to disregard an argument just because that person was suspect not to understand “Thais” enough. Moreover, I was not joking about many Thais couldn’t even separate the two days apart.
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Andrew, you are not academic, you are an activist. If you are an academic, you wouldn’t have started this thread. Accept it, you are angry because someone on the opposite side of your thinking have managed to intrude on your turf, ANU. And you are not part of it.
Other academics and Thai experts in ANU that I’ve talk to (you know who they are, Andrew) welcomed this event eventhough some of them may have disagreed with Surapong’s actions. But they don’t express their outcry and “cajoling” (using your term) other people like you are doing now on this website.
The Thai students “were not” summoned. We were invited by the Thai students’ association. I am a Thai government official on a government funded scholarship at ANU and was there on my own will. Nobody can summone me.
I don’t agree with a lot of things Surapong said during the meeting and some issues he said even annoyed me and made me angry, but I still respect his views. I can made my own judgement on what is best for Thailand.
One other thing, Surapong did not refer to you by name or say any thing impolite at all. He did not even directly criticised anyone at ANU or New Mandala. As a matter of fact, he was quite polite and humbled. I was a bit disappointed because I was expecting a more colourful and exciting presentation, given his reputation. I think you are exaggerating or your student sources are.
I was not going to post a comment on this website anymore, given my previous bad experience with the negative responses from all the regulars here. But on this thread, I have to say something because I was there and you, Andrew, were not there and are not telling the whole truth and even painted some colors into the story. Yes, I’m accusing you. Like it or not, I don’t care.
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Thanks Tossaporn. If you, or anyone else, would like to provide a summary of Surapong’s presentation, we would be very happy to host it here.Our turf is open to all.
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On ASTV today, former air marshall Prasong Sunsiri casually mentioned that given current opposing viewpoints and power ploys by Thaksin, whatever happens in November will happen.
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@ Tarrin – 24
Oh, my comment is too complicated for you…I thought I’ve already answered your point.
OK, let’s try to be direct…
‘And no, smiling was not part of our culture until very recently’ – Tarrin.
Why very recently? educate me, Tarrin – (or Farangs just recently told you so?).
Good to know ‘taking our top off’ is a part of our culture….not the smile! Tell that to a farang who tried to study/interpret the meanings of Thai smiles.
Tarrin @ Jesse
‘I was not joking about many Thais couldn’t even separate the two days apart.’ – Tarrin.
So, you were joking when you said ‘many “farang” can pretty much retract all the event from the beginning till the end with accuracy’?
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Tarrin 25
I know you weren’t joking about the mixed up by Thai people of those events, but you put an emphasize into the issue and seem to focus on the people who might not be academics on these issues, while you give farangs credit for knowing their own history. I wonder how many farangs in Australia know what role the Governor General of Australia plays here.
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Tossaporn Sirak, I’d be interested to hear what was actually said.
Given the inability for Thailand to get it’s political act together at even a fundamental level, it might suggest that Thai’s themselves are not experts of their own situation/institution.
On a side note, Thai media is reporting (claiming?) Surapong to have zero foreign ministry experience. I find that strange, considering Andrew says Surapong was a former ambassador to Germany . . .
[Note from AW: different Surapong.]
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Tossaporn seems to be very agitated. Most academics in the Thai media could easily be described as activists. Frankly, I see no distinction between activism and scholarship. Generally, I find engaged scholarship the most interesting.
That aside, as Tossaporn was there can he confirm that “general attacks on Thaksin and a defence of the 2006 coup. Students were urged to defend Thailand and the monarchy from attacks by foreigners and to avoid being influenced by some of the things they may hear about Thailand while studying here in Canberra.”
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Tossaporn Sirak
1. “The Thai students “were not” summoned. ”
I disagree. In general, there is more or less a pressure from those who organize the event. The pressure can be formal or informal and may vary from individual to individual (e.g. MFA-funded students suppose to come to this event, but MOST-funded students suppose to come to the other.)
It is always the case that ThaiGov-funded students in Canberra are expected to participate in events held here by Thai authorities. They are even expected to volunteer involuntarily (in other words, work for free, or work for less than minimum wage.). Next time you guys attend events at Thai embassy, ask Thai students there how much do they get?
In the past, ANU has been asked several times by Thai authorities in Canberra to forward event information to ANU student email. ANU did it a couple of times last year which I find a breach of trust and privacy! Well, I guess that they asked for all Thai student contacts, but as a compromise, ANU agreed to forward the information instead.
2. “One other thing, Surapong did not refer to you by name or say any thing impolite at all. He did not even directly criticised anyone at ANU or New Mandala. As a matter of fact, he was quite polite and humbled. ”
His initial speech matches the above description. Note the words “by name” or “directly” in the quote above. Well, because of this, the initial message was not clear, but after Q&A session his agenda here is obvious.
In Q&A discussion, it is apparent that Andrew and NM were mentioned. There are a number of students who vouched for Andrew and defended academic integrity at ANU. They have risked their life and their career to speak up. Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them. โปรดฟังอีกครั้งหนึ่ง Andrew, you know them and you should not fail them.
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Jesse – 29
The point is not about you have to be an academic to know your own history. Nawat has brought up the point that “farang” in general simply don’t understand the “Thais” culture. Well, my argument was that some “farang” (generally speaking academic and some enthusiastic individual) do know about Thailand’s history more than many Thais themselves. So who are we, to say, who understand that better than another? Moreover, how about the “Thais” that don’t agree with the play on “culture” like me? how did the argument live up to?
I did not emphasized on academic only, some ordinary people who care to spend enough time to study on culture will eventually understand that culture regardless, but understand in what context is up to the individual.
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Thanks for those who pointed out that this picture is the picture of the CP in 1975 when he was a student in Australia.
As the topic is about Surapong Jayanama, I had to refrain from asking whether the man in the picture is Surapong Jayanama or not because he does look like the CP.
PS. about the 6 October 1976 massacre, I can confirm that many Thais who were born after 1976 would not know much about it. This event is not taught in school. The first time I read about it was from Paul Handley’s “The King Never Smiles”, the book which is banned from Thailand. I then did more research about this event and knew more about it…
…but I better stop commenting. I love my freedom too much, and I would surely regret it if I would end up in jail for fifteen years for simply trying to win an academic discussion online against someone who will never change their POV anyway, even if they lose out in an argument. I love my freedom and my comfortable lifestyle too much to sacrifice it from simply saying what I have learned
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Dear Tossaporn , I am an activist and not an academic, just like the Queen. But if I were a university teacher and I found there had been a meeting where a powerful individual holds a private meeting with my students with the intention of intimidating them I would be ropable. My duty would be to protect my students and so I think Andrew has done the right thing to open up this discussion.
Mind you Tossaporn, from what folk say about kowtowing to authority being very much a part of Thai culture, your defiant attitude, which is apparently most un Thai, is to be commended.
On another matter have you seen the letter from the four sons where they say the whole family in the palace – Dad, Aunty & Grandpa all fail to write back even though the boys are homesick? This really paints the elders in a very bad light. What does it mean that the website with the details : http://vivacharawongse.blogspot.com/ is not being blocked by the censors? Are we all, your student friends included, now free to speak?
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Nawat, Sanook Dum, Tossaporn,
Juat like to say it’s great that this post has brought out your views and I sincerely hope you will continue to post – it is thoroughly illuminating, albeit at times somewhat disturbing.
If I may, I’d just like to challenge Khun Nawat on his comments on the superficiality of “farang” knowledge and lamenting (sarcastically) that “I, as a Thai, live my whole life in this culture but not qualified as an expert”.
I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction.
You could legitimately say many farang have a superficial knowledge of Thailand. You could also legitmately say that many Thai citizens have a very superficial knowledge of their own history and cultural origins. Going down this road gets nowhere. Informed debate free of prejudice and ignorant nationalism is so much better.
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I guess 95% of Thai students studying abroad have a “farang” supervisor for their thesis’. Many work on “Thai-topics”. Does it mean that the supervisors have no idea about what they are supervising?
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@Robin (#37) said: “I really think it is mistaken to break it down along Thai and farang lines. For example, how could anyone be an expert on a country’s history or the origins of its “culture” – irrespective of their nationality – if they have never seriously studied it? If they have not read or been exposed to a wide variety of theories, viewpoints and sources, and had the opportunity to listen to, or participate in critical appraisal of these views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or fear of social, financial or legal sanction”.
—
Very well said!
I am also quite tired of the “you not Thai, you cannot understand Thailand” mantra. Please try and be academic for a change. Do it the academic way. If you want to challenge anything which anyone has written, actually do read what the author of that book says. If the author mentions something which you do not believe it is true, check out their sources. Alternatively, do more research by yourself about that matter to see whether what they said is true or not. If it is not true, point that bit out that it is not true. Explain why it is not true, and bring evidence to the contrary to rebut it. That is how academic debate works.
Try it with Chapter 12 of the King Never Smiles, the event of 6 October 1976 as a starting point, as many people in this topic have talked about it, and there is apparently some confusion. Actually read the book, and do further research. Then bring evidences to the contrary (if any) to rebut what Mr Handley wrote. A word of warning though, if you are open minded and objective enough, doing this might change the way you think forever. And you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven
Adios
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CT says after seroius study : “you might feel that Thailand is no longer a heaven, but it is a giant prison cell which fools its prisoners that they are living in heaven “.
The same would be true for many places Australia & the USA for example.
The one thing going for Thailand is something the country does not have and which the USA, Auatralia and the UK do have – Rupert Murdoch and News Linited.
We still have news limited but without the capitals.
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As to being unique…
“We won’t be deceived by titles such as Indispensable, Unique and Great. Someone else indispensable and unique and great can be found at a moment’s notice.
Constantine Peter Cavafy, 1863-1933.
Who really knows whom? And how?
While Thais are generally inculcated to believe and expound the idea that their uniqueness answers all the wrongs they are accused to committing, those who criticize them see those wrongs for what they are: hardly unique, hardly Thai only. They are just wrongs. Throwing people in prison for speech is a great one, some day to be banned, but for the while we remain in a land of knee-jerking ignorance and pitiful social values that bring great dishonor to the land and its legacy. We thus, in this respect, may consider Thailand relatively unique.
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HRK 38
“I guess 95% of Thai students studying abroad have a “farang” supervisor for their thesis’. Many work on “Thai-topics”. Does it mean that the supervisors have no idea about what they are supervising?”
May be 5% of those are doing thesis on Thailand abroad. They would study in Thailand don’t you think ?
There are many Thais who teach English and have better grammars than farangs. They know what they are doing, and better at that, but it doesn’t mean they “know it all”. Some people on this board assume they even know personal details of the royal family, based on their academic views of “Perez Hilton” style leaked / open letter.
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It looks like the word “foreign” in the name of the Saranrom Institute of Foreign Affairs means “weird” rather than “belonging to an0ther country”. I am also nostalgic about the distinguished diplomat and gentleman, Direk Jayanama, who was of an entirely different image from this director of the Saransom Institute.
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Jesse – 41
The point is it can go both ways, nationality hardly got anything to do with expertise. I didn’t calmed that Farang knows it all, hardly, I’m just saying some knows better than Thais (which is certainly not too far fetch).
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