It’s been a busy few weeks for me, so my posts to New Mandala have been sparse. Here are a few thoughts on some of the main events of recent days.
Thailand’s devastating floods have already claimed 200 lives and caused widespread damage and disruption in agricultural, urban and industrial areas. The extent of impact on Bangkok itself remains to be seen, but with most dams to the north now at, or above, capacity, there is clearly very little room to cope with any more heavy rain.
In the past in Thailand there has often been a tendency to attribute flooding to deforestation in upland areas, conveniently placing the blame on marginal farmers who can do little to defend their environmental reputation. Such claims have very little justification. While deforestation (and associated reduction of the ability of the land to absorb rainfall) may have some impact on localised flooding, the impact of land-cover on widespread flooding is much more limited.
Thankfully most commentary about the current disaster has avoided pointing the finger of blame at upland farmers. Attention, quite correctly, has focused on the very high levels of rainfall from a series of tropical storms. With the ground saturated from rainfall earlier in the wet season, there really is nowhere for the rain to go, except downhill. Forest or no forest, such vast quantities of water have to flow somewhere and in most of the north and centre, and parts of the northeast, all streams head to Bangkok.
Some commentators are calling for more dams which could store some of the flow. But in extreme events these will just fill up too.
At the much less serious end of the news spectrum is the hacking of Yingluck’s twitter account. Last Sunday, over about half an hour, a series of unflattering tweets about government policy and action were posted under Yingluck’s account. The final tweet suggested that someone who could not protect the security of their twitter account could hardly be trusted to protect the security of the nation. As political protest goes, this is pretty mild stuff; a clever exploitation of the vulnerabilities that emerge when politicians embrace social media.
The culprit has now been revealed as a 22-year-old student. Good luck to him. It would be an outrage if he was prosecuted under the odious Computer Crimes Act.
Finally, the Nitirat effect. A group of legal scholars from Thammasat University, under the name Nitirat, has released a statement proposing some innovative solutions to some of Thailand’s political difficulties. Most controversial is the proposal that the legal consequences of the 2006 coup be nullified. Here is Suranand Vejjajiva’s summary:
The gist of the controversial proposal is: to nullify the legality of the coup d’etat of Sept 19, 2006 and the subsequent legal actions taken as a result of the coup. These would encompass all orders declared by the Council of Democratic Reform (CDR) formed by the coup leaders as the legal entity which exercised power at the time.
Nitirat’s proposal also seeks to nullify Sections 36 and 37 of the temporary constitution of 2006, which endorsed the actions taken by the CDR and provided amnesty for the coup leaders. Any rulings by the Constitution Judiciary Commission, the Constitution Court and the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions based upon the orders of the CDR and others resulting from the coup _ especially those rulings from the processes initiated by the Assets Scrutiny Committee appointed by CDR _ are also to be invalidated.
Unsurprisingly the Nitirat statement has generated a great deal of public debate, with dueling public statements issued at press conferences, via the media and, in particular, on Facebook. Some of the contributions have been plain silly with some asking why Nitirat has only focused on one coup — why not all of them! The Rector of Thammasat University will live to regret bringing Pridi Phanomyong into the debate.
Nevertheless, silliness aside, the debate has been a very positive development for Thailand. The benefit of the Nitirat effect is that is it encouraging open discussion about the nature of Thailand’s political system. Put simply — is Thailand willing to put its faith in the parliamentary system or is it going to continue to rely on the illegal use of force to resolve political difficulties?
Clearly there are some in Thailand who remain alarmed about the possibility of a parliamentary dictatorship. In a country where only one government has managed to serve its full term this seems a rather strange anxiety but, like all anxieties, it is best dealt with by open and frank discussion.



On the floods… I think that Ayutthaya and Lop Buri have consciously been sacrificed in an effort to save Bangkok, and that the capital city is becoming a greater and greater liability to Thailand everyday in terms of wasted capital expenditures financial and otherwise, such as these. And, oh yeah… it’s the environment stupid! The MSM still have not got the story : this is not some ‘weird’ aberration, this is the new ‘normal’ and is the number 1 issue to be dealt with.
On the hacking of Khun Pu’s account… note that the poor script kiddie was set up to take the fall. The person who hacked or, more likely, ‘socially engineered’ her/his way to Khun Pu’s password delivered the results to the poor young suckers to actually use, and to violate the monstrous law in doing so. Hacking the password and disseminating the results are not illegal.
As for the Seven Samurai at Nitirat… all I can say is they are jolly brave fellows and that nobody can deny! In these times of raging waters they have been able to bridge the lawless torrent raging these past five years in Thailand, now separating the present elected Thai government from the last, and their solution must be realized. They are 100% correct, in my view.
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A perceptive Thai perspective on the flooding can be found on Thai Intelligence News.
It is called Natural Disaster: Blame severe Thai flooding on Abhisit’s Bangkok-Centric US$44 billion stimulus failure
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The farmers have never been a source of flooding, even if illiterate they are to intelligent to destroy their own resources; deforestation was always and still is the result of the corrupt Thaï elite causing damage to large areas in the North, using cheap labor coming from outside of the concerned areas. Its fashion among Thaï generals to have their own resort in the mountains, even in theoretically blocked Natural Parks. They also engage labor to deforest now the top of the mountains, so that it cannot be seen from below and resulting in huge mud-slides in areas where there have never been such disasters.
As to Bangkok, the city will soon also get its share of flood, the hastily constructed dams will probably not resist for long to the force of water. But don’t worry, the king has taken all necessary measures to avoid disaster: he ordered ships been lined up with their engines running to speed up the water flow (I think he merits an IG Nobel in applied physics), he also wanted start in pure Buddhist tradition prayers to the some Hindu Rain god but it seems he was dissuaded to go on with such a stupid action. In the meantime and in order to allow training for the rowers of the royal barges for the December festival, he has closed some water-doors on the Chaophraya River. He thinks that the remaining channels should be able to absorb the coming floods.
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The BBBB Proposal
If the grim visage of PM Yingluck in last night’s (Oct 7) televised addressed to the nation is any indication of what awaits Bangkok in the coming days, it seems almost inevitable that Bangkok will be flooded when the torrents of water arrive from the north and meet with high tides in the gulf of Thailand. Although the government has made every effort to inform the public in the inimitable style of photo ops that it is working hard to find a solution to the widespread upstream flooding, the Prime Minister’s candid statements reported by the Nation (Sept 27, 2011) that “her government did not know how to drain all the flood water, given that it was now literally almost everywhere” was perhaps already a veiled warning to downstream Bangkokians who seemed oblivious to the immensity of the flooding situation as they continued to live in dry conditions in the capital.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/Bt40-bn-needed-for-longterm-solution-PM-says-as-mo-30166223.html
Yet in the days that followed, it appeared that no amount of money thrown at the problem or much “rear guard” action by unorganized agencies fighting a battle against the floods could stop its relentless spread of destruction. The ministers running these agencies are “the same Cabinet members who have been found lacking in their efforts to cope with this still-unfolding crisis. Agencies coming under this mechanism are the ones already fighting the floods in desperation. It seems the success of the plan announced by Yingluck yesterday will rely more on nature’s mercy than human efficiency.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/Sense-of-urgency-must-turn-into-action-30167153.html
There is also the controversial issue of dams nearing full capacity that release water in the most inopportune time to aggravate the already dire situation in the rivers and flooded areas, and at a time in the month of October that when the massive volume arrives in Bangkok will be met by high tides. Is there any room for accountability here by whoever is responsible for these dams since this was also the same type of blame during the 1983 floods?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/259742/more-dam-water-to-be-released
Why wait until the “Bhumibol Dam is 94.3% full and the Sirikit Dam 99.19% full” instead of releasing the water in these dams gradually (as a reserve) before the onset of heavy rains? Surely the engineers receive weather forecast data? What is the science behind this?
Despite all of these efforts to create a semblance of control (“flood war room” in Don Mueang Airport), provision of free parking at Don Mueang’s Airport carpark for use “by people who are worried that their vehicles could be submerged”(no mention of where people can stay if they are flooded since obviously Thais value their cars more than their persons), provide relief (through mobilization of Thai Red Cross, Army and Navy) and prioritize to save economic assets as in the case of “the government choosing to sacrifice part of the Asian Highway in Ayutthaya to save around a hundred factories in the 7,275-rai Rojana Industrial Park in the province”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/260280/highway-sacrificed-to-protect-industry
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/Sense-of-urgency-must-turn-into-action-30167153.html
there appears to be little or no reference in the public consciousness on how to share the flood burden. We only get an inkling of this important issue as we read of conflict arising between flooded communities as a result of prioritized areas, with anger and frustration erupting into into civil disobedience as was reported in residents destroying the sandbag embankments in Nakhon Nayok (that privileged the Pathum Thani economic zone) and Chainat (that privileged neighboring Suphan Buri province).
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/Suffering-Nakhon-Nayok-locals-tear-down-sandbag-em-30166319.html
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/Angry-Chai-Nat-flood-victims-destroy-sandbag-barri-30166084.html
Although this “worst flood” in 50 years is a likely result of a combination of unusual climate patterns (heavy rains probably caused by higher evaporation from the Pacific and moisture blown westward to the Philippines, Vietnam and Thailand) and the usual suspects (deforestation for state-promoted tree farming, resort building; poor land use controls, urbanization) we fail to remember an additional significant factor: the presence of a metropolis on the mouth of the flood plain of Chao Phraya River. In the past, such 50 year cycle floods would have been accommodated simply by flooding the entire flood plain, making this one giant “kaem ling” or monkey cheeks (water retention pond) as subsequently popularized by HM the King as a flood mitigation strategy. This is one reason why the central Plain is fertile as a result of sediment being distributed during the natural cycle of flooding.
Bangkok so far has remained spared of the floods because of its comparatively advanced infrastructure in the form of a system of dikes, water gates to prevent entry of overflowing river water to its system of khlongs, one drainage tunnel, and massive pumping stations that had been installed after the massive flooding of Bangkok in 1983. However, as a result of this protection, the river flow capacity of Chao Phraya River is therefore constrained by its physical dimensions regardless of how many boats are pressed into service to churn the water with their propellers to push the waters outwards to the sea. The effect of Bangkok’s flood protection, as the dramatic flood photo (indicative not accurate) from the GISTDA shows is that Bangkok, besieged by a wall of water surrounding it, looks like one giant cork preventing all the water from draining into the sea. (you need Google Earth to view the file) Needless to say, any similar attempt to protect any large urban area upstream by dikes would also have the same effect of displacing the flood waters to unprotected areas.
http://tile.gistda.or.th/geoserver/gwc/service/kml/flood:flood_2011_geo.png.kml
Therefore, the success of any urban area in keeping the flood waters at bay would appear to depend on its level of infrastructure and its downright refusal to flood it as a “kaem ling” (a retention pond) so that water from upstream can drain faster. This is the case of Bangkok where Governor Suhumbhand reports that BMA “has already opened 90% of its water sluice gate”, and in the case of Suphanburi, where the political strongman of Suphanburi (Mr. Banharn) is reported to have kept “the keys of all watergates in Suphan Buri and does not allow anyone to open a single one to allow run-offs from the upper North”.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/260279/flood-waters-bear-down-on-capital
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/politics/The-suffering-continues-as-politicians-play-game-30166957.html
What is therefore the political economy of sharing the flood water burden i.e., who should bear the burden of the floods? If the whole Bangkok area was made into a water retention pond, the water from upstream can drain faster, and therefore ease the burden of those who have been inundated for more than a month. Bangkok is part of the flood plain. My proposal (that would of course be considered bababobo (BBBB) by many) is that to help ease the urban-rural divide (remember that? Or have the floods made you forget?)(and should this unusual climate patterns most likely continue to be a yearly event from now on in varying degrees of severity), I submit that Bangkokians share the burden of the flooding. Since after all this is the term break for students, let Bangkok be flooded in a controlled manner for at least one week, even two (then close the water gates and pump the water out). This may perhaps help mollify the sense of frustration, discontent and feelings of neglect by people in the rural areas may now find yet another source of aggrievement in the form of this suffering from flood damage and loss of life that upstream folks have to bear almost singlehandedly. The economic damage will be great, but that is a small price for returning the country into some semblance of unity again.
However, this BBBB proposal has already been overtaken by events. We are now moving into the high tide season, plus there are increasing rains (due to “low pressure system”) expected and those damn dams have to continue releasing water. I hope I am proven wrong and that Bangkok will not be flooded contrary to the dire fact that the PM Yingluck has already admitted on Thursday, Oct 6 that the flooding situation in the country has reached the crisis level (read, out of control)
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/breakingnews/Yingluck-admits-floods-reach-crisis-level-30166980.html
Be that as it may, it is instructive to reflect on what should be done after the worst of this flood season is over. Are there going to be any long term solutions? When PM Yingluck asked for 40 Billion Baht for “integrated water management, that supposedly should prevent extensive flooding in the future”, no details were given, except for “early warning systems”. “Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday (Sept 28) instructed all governors to implement the “2Ps 2Rs” in fighting off disasters in their provinces. “Make the checklist and see if you’ve followed them,” she said, referring to preparation and prevention, and response and recovery.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/PM-calls-for-more-early-warning-systems-30166405.html
However, in a search in google, there is already one proposal for flood mitigation called “The second master plan of flood mitigation for Chao Phraya Delta after 1995 flood which has been initially developed by AIT , DHI and ACRES Int.Ltd. for the World Bank, further developed in details by JICA and finally reported in Thai by the Crown Property Bureau.” (Vongvisessomjai, 2007).
http://web.rid.go.th/ffd/papers/Paper-Session%201/p1-04%20Flood%20Mitigation%20Master%20Plan.pdf
There is even a phasing of implementation of flood mitigation measures by short, medium and long term by the Crown Property Bureau (p. 4). Why this has not been implemented or whether even this proposal has come to the attention of PM Yingluck remains an unanswered question. If this great Megalopolis called Bangkok has to be protected by all means (as it contributes at least 60% to the GDP), the construction of the diversion channel to the eastern part of Bangkok would serve to mitigate severe flood damage. The report acknowledges that this is going “to be very costly”. Regardless, as we irreversibly enter the era of severe climate patterns, priorities must be reoriented to reduce the costs of spatial inequalities that seem for certain to intensify as more and more people realize the unfair sharing of climate impacts leave many worse off than a select few. In doing so we save the country not only economically, politically, but more importantly, psychologically, as it realizes a modicum of social equity.
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From Matichon Online:
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Thais begin to question whether dams are adding to the flooding problem.
Thai Intelligence News
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U Chemp. Is there any evidence for your suggestion that the idea of using boat propellers to speed the flow of water to the sea was the King’s? I thought Minister of Science and Technology and Pheua Thai stalwart Plodprasop claimed this intellectual feat for himself. It is certainly a worth follow up to his stroke of genius in slaughtering giraffes and and other exotic animals in the Chiang Mai Zoo to attract tourists to the Night Safari to eat their meat.
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Marteau: Here are a couple of sources:
http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/270211.html
That one seems quite official, but there are others, such as: http://en.isnhotnews.com/?p=14493
(btw, even if they got the story wrong I don’t think they deserve to face a LM prosecution
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I should add that both those links are nice examples of what Dr Patrick Jory succinctly describes as ‘incessant & absurd’ propaganda.
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The first article doesn’t say anything about propellers of boats. Just mentions “advice.”
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Ralph Kramden: The Bangkok Post also seem to have a similar impression: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/257717/30-more-tugboats-speed-the-chao-phraya-flow
Nothing would surprise me though, as we have seen before how politicians and bureaucrats can take to heart other such brilliant ‘advice’.
(War on drugs and Southern insurgency come to mind)
It’s been pointed out before that some think Ian Kershaw’s theory has merit in trying to understand Thailand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Kershaw#The_.22Working_Towards_the_F.C3.BChrer.22_concept
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Fortunately, if there was any misunderstanding, it should be cleared up by now: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Race-Against-Time-30167556.html
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I’m still curious about this 1000 boats in the river claim and its link to royal advice. Smith Dharmasarojana at the Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/261047/smith-faults-water-management) says this: “Accelerating boats in the middle of the wide Chao Phraya River is a waste because they propel only the water on the surface.” He also faults the BMA and says that the floods are a result of poor decisions by the RID and others and that it is not a natural disaster.
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Bangkok Pundit has taken up the comments of Smith Dharmasarojana.
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Readers might note that the little discussion of boats/turbines and racing water to the sea here at NM has now become a much bigger debate, with yellow shirts screaming that a government claim that the idea was its own is now lambasted as somehow damaging to the king as it was his idea. I’m still not at all convinced (1) the idea works; and (2) that it is the king’s. Any more ideas on this?
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Ralph Kramden
It’s Thailand. The truth or falsehood of either claim is irrelevant. It’s just a matter of waiting to see how they will be used.
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JohnWin: my point at 15 is precisely that it is being used…
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I am still skeptical that the suggestion to use the boat propellers came directly from the King. All the sources quoted in support of this theory simply quote the monarch as advising that drainage of water from the East of Bangkok to the sea should be expedited which is fair enough. An example is given of a canal and sluice gate that he urged 10 years ago and it seems more likely that his advice was to do with improving the capacity of existing water channels rather wasting effort in a futile attempt to increase the velocity of the flow without increasing the volume. However, NM readers tend to dislike him, he has spent a lot time studying water management and is vastly more knowledgeable about it than the average farang Thai studies academic.
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I am struck with the photos i have seen of of the sandbag placement to help mitigate the flooding.
A sandbag dike must be built properly to prevent or reduce flood damage.
Managing Volunteers
Since a dike will fail if not built correctly, training people on proper procedures for placing sandbags is very important. In the rush, volunteers will do something, but the result frequently is a dike that performs poorly or fails. Put a high priority on planning and organization.
From:
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ageng/safety/ae626w.htm
So has the army trained the soldiers in proper sandbag dyke construction? What about the BMA? How many politicians have read a leaflet similar to the one from the US Army Corps of Engineers? Has the Commander in Chief?
http://www.nan.usace.army.mil/services/content/emergops/…/sandbags.pdf
I saw photos on flicker of the sandbag embankment at Nortaburi. There were no plastic sheets in evidence. No pyramid shape. It appeared that the bags were stacked in two rows.
Why are industrial parks of such national importance located in the flood plain? Why are there no permanent dykes around them?
Why has Bangkok not started implementing a dyke program similar to the Netherlands? Perhaps this will provide the country with the impetus to begin. However, if corruption cannot be brought under control nothing will come of this as it will end up looking like Pattaya
Beach Road Construction.
Perhaps this will also start planning in Decentralization of the
Bangkok Centric government. Why keep the Central
Goverment in Bangkok? Why not have regional centers for the various Departments? And have only limited administration in Bangkok.
Perhaps time to consider a move to another location. Like Brazil did.
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Marteau: “he has spent a lot time studying water management and is vastly more knowledgeable about it than the average farang Thai studies academic”
I agree, and that’s why it is so surprising that the country still suffers yearly flooding.
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Today’s Bangkok Post has a story “Govt sacrifices eastern Bangkok” which probably should have been titled “Govt follows King’s advice and sacrifices eastern Bangkok”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/262211/govt-sacrifices-eastern-bangkok
But titling aside the report quotes numerous figures about water flows. Although based on the apparent innumeracy of Post editorial staff as shown by decades of misreporting numbers, if one takes the figures as correct, what do they imply about the “speeding up Chao Phraya River flow by a factor of three from tug boats” ?
Firstly we have:
“… Chalit Damrongsak, director-general of the Irrigation Department, reported that floodwaters from Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani were flowing at 120 million cubic metres per second to eastern Bangkok, 100 million cu m/s to western Bangkok and 480 million cu m/s from 300,000 rai of fields from the Raphiphat canal to the Rangsit Prayoonsak canal north of Bangkok.”
This would appear to add up to a total flow of 700 million cu m/s flowing towards the sea.
Then:
“More than 8 billion cu m of floodwaters are flowing from Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani towards Bangkok.” &
“The Chao Phraya River discharges less than 200 million cu m/day while attempts to divert floodwater via the east and west of the capital can drain only about 86 million cu m daily.”
If the flow figures for the river are converted to the same cu m/s units that Chalit uses, i.e. dividing by 86,400 = 60*60*24 being the number of seconds in a day, we see that the Chao Phraya River discharges less than .0023 million cu m/second, or thanks to the boats maybe .007 million cu m/s. Now this latter figure turns out to be 1/100,000 of the 700 million cu m/s reported above which would make the tug boat exercise a waste of money.
However, what about the “8 billion cu m of floodwaters are flowing.. towards Bangkok” ? At a flow rate of 700 million cu m/s this should pass in eleven seconds.
So now I am thoroughly confused and wonder how I managed to excel at 3rd grade arithmetic?
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Maybe the newspapers should start blaming themselves for alleged panics and “lies” about the situation?
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Nganadeeleg #20: “that’s why it is so surprising that the country still suffers yearly flooding.”
What’s surprising about it? He’s only pointing out that the king knows more about water management than a Thai studies academic.
You could know more about water management than a Thai studies academic and still not know very much.
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Whether we like it or not, Thailand will continue to suffer ‘yearly flooding’, and in some years ‘big’ or ‘biblical’ floods. Neither gods or politicians or Thaksin, despite Nganadeeleg’s “surprise”, will be able to prevent Thailand’s yearly deluge.
Yingluck, a political novice , is however trying her damnest, despite her obvious ineptitude, to prevent the deluge from touching ‘inner Bangkok’.
The Thai people will probably take note of the ‘ineptitude’ rather than the ‘sincerity’ of Yinluck’s bungling management of the ongoing deluge.
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The floods had reached my soi last night. The water came in quickly and by midnight, the soi (already with higher elevation than nearby sois and main road) was knee deep in water. So far the meter high sandbags protecting my gate has succeeded to hold off the water from invading my home.
But I am preparing to completely evacuate today, for higher groun upcountry probably to Chaam. The government pronouncements are very persuasive, warning of water and electric services being cutoff ‘soon. Water rising in my soi also mean my toilet won’t be working . . . and that’s going to be messy.
But I am feeling satisfied that I have given ‘ample’ donations in money and in bountiful dry goods to those in need. I drove my wagon full of dry goods to Don Muang center, and inspite of the mess, my donations were promptly received without fuss (I appreciate that ‘no fuss’ reception, mind you.) I did note the mountains of bottled water, rice bags, ‘cooked’ food in plastic bags etc., and assortments of goods everywhere (small mountains of sanitary napkins, toilet papers, mosquito repellents . . . etc).
But I am infuriated to read of the Yingluck government’s shining bungling by declining the substantial USA offer of help:
http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2011/10/25/flood-hit-thailand-declines-offer-of-help/
” . . . The US Navy has withdrawn several ships sent to help with relief efforts in flood-hit Thailand after receiving “mixed” messages from the Bangkok government, a defense official said Monday.
The USS George Washington aircraft carrier and other ships were deployed to the area on October 16 for potential disaster relief work as Thailand faced massive flooding from monsoon rains, said Navy spokesman Lieutenant Commander John Perkins.
But the US military never received a formal request from the Thai government and the three-ship aircraft carrier group along with a fourth ship, the USS Kidd, were released and left the area on Friday, said Perkins, spokesman for the US Pacific Fleet based in Hawaii.
“We are ready to help but we haven’t got a request,” said a US defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
“There were two channels (in the Thai government),” the defense official told AFP. “One was saying ‘Yes’ and one was saying ‘No.’”
. . . .
Surely Bangkok Pundit, Andrew Spooner, or New Mandala bloggers could explain that this was no Yingluck government usual f….up.
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Thanks Vichai. Good luck.
Any informed thoughts on what or who the two channels are?
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Somewhat ambiguous is what the article calls messages from the “Bangkok government.”
Did the US DoD official literally mean the BMA government? Or the did the team of US Marines liaise with counterparts in the Thai military, in which case was it the Thai military that gave the conflicting signals? Or did the military say one thing and the FROC say something else… and who said what?
In any case, who cares… the deadline is damning enough.
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One wonders what “substantial help” the USS Geo Washington with its crew of 5000 and fearsome arsenal of destructive weapons could give?
Certainly they could have gone in Israeli style and bombed all the watergates that the BMA was failing to open. Perhaps this offer got the Yes from the military and No from the BKK Governor?
With close to 20 million people in the stew of the flood, how could even 5000 well intentioned sailors make a difference?
US help offered really amounts to little more than a Green-Washing effort to hide the fact that Bangkok has for decades assiduosly followed the US model of highway building for the benefit of the 1% and to the detriment of the 99% who could breathe easy if, say the European or even the Soviet model had been followed.
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Vichai N: Good luck with your personal battle with the water. I appreciate your comments on the floods and government. It seems to me that you have shown considerable political even-handedness in this, and it makes your commentary especially powerful.
The two channels are government and military. Question is, who refused?
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Vichai N 25:
you will be more furiated to know that there is a chance that your donation will be claimed by MPs from PT party as theirs. Pictures in several FB showed a tag with the name of MPs from PT party appeared along the military truck loaded with donation for the flooding victims (even on donation bags). While, the spokeperson of FROC explained that all things plus the truck were given by the MPs themself not from the FROC (which of course came from Bkk people both stuffs and labor). But see how a civilian (MP) can have the military truck to carry his donation from the FROC HQ?
http://www.facebook.com/flood54?sk=wall#!/flood54?sk=wall&filter=1n
The content is in Thai and likely to be consored by FROC just like the http://www.Thaiflood.com was.
Also picture showed “with help from ex-PM Thaksin Chinawatr” on the side of the boats.
I felt sorry for the volunteers that all their hard work in packing things up and Bkk people who donate a huge of nessesary things for the flooding victims were taken advatage by these guys.
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Suggest a look at this as a response to Patsan: http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/cpj-observes-censorship-on-floods/
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patsan: you make a fair point, but such actions are common to politicians of all stripes, seeking to gain attention and claim credit. Likewise, NGO’s, and Aid Agencies, both local and international, will always advertise their presence and activities, although I suppose this they can justify on security grounds, sometimes. Corporate donors too will always have their logos prominently displayed.
But does it matter? I do not think that the recipients of much needed supplies will be too concerned about such ethical issues.
Ralph Kramden: It’s an interesting report. It is a pity that the red shirt Asia Update TV is subscription only and not available through government channels, so it only reaches a limited audience. Obviously they will put their own slant on things, but they are spending a lot of time refuting misleading or false reports about red shirt activities.
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Robin Grant: It’ll be fair if the person did the fund raising himself, then he can put his name on. In this case the fair thing was to have FORC took the credit. In this difficult time of Thai people, should he (the MP) take more responsible on helping the people or at least his voters rather than try to raise his popularity by taking advantage from the young volunteers? Or it’s no need to consider of integrity among the politicians, and just say “they just do it that way”?
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More news on the flood victim supplies by PT MP in The Nation:http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/FROC-complaints-bring-shakeup-of-handout-system-30168645.html
Funny thing is if the PT MP did’nt do it on pupose why was he deposed from the job?
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My neighbor tells me of a flood years ago where all the trees, which were mainly fruit trees died except for big American Rain Trees. I asked her about Don Takien (Hopea odorata) , the famous spirit tree which one lined all our rivers and used for making war canoes. “Oh they are all long gone” she said. I might add that the same is true of the great Yang Na, Dipterocarpus alatus, which the King has successfuly grown at Suan Chitlada in large numbers.
My neighbor suggested that the best way for us in the north to help flood sufferers is to start growing lots of trees for their gardens, and to start now. I would add that as this has been a year of abundant seed production of Yang Na trees and that our forest nurseries have them in abundance, that come Songkran time they all be shipped to Nakorn Sawan and beyond to be planted to grace the roads and klongs and in years to come provide timber for building in the old style.
Can anyone suggest which organisations are best placed to organise this assistance, without turning it into an exercise in corruption?
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Patsan: you are right, there are a ton of misleading stories. There are also stories that are made up. The idea seems to be that if you believe that Pheu Thai should never have won the election, then throw as much as you can into the air and some of it will stick and weaken those they believe are evil ones.
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Sunday’s Bangkok Post predicting 1.5 metre rise in flood levels -
“Anond Snidvongs, director of the Geoinformatics and Space Technology Development Agency, said the authorities could drain up to 70% of northern run-off reaching the capital of 200-300 million cubic metres per day. This would cause rising water levels of five centimetres a day on average.
The situation will carry on for about four weeks before stabilising.”
..and Thailand seels antigravity equipment-
“Deputy Bangkok governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said yesterday the BMA has asked the Provincial Waterworks Authority and the Industry Ministry to supply equipment for use in “water siphoning techniques” to drain floodwater from lower ground to higher ground in eastern Bangkok.”
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c36
“There are also stories that are made up.”
There certainly are. For an illustration take a look at Michael Montesano’s piece for the Jakarta Globe at http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/opinion/as-the-floodwaters-rise-in-thailand-an-ideological-debate-comes-to-the-surface/474273 – the section describing a supposed “alternate crisis center”.
The seeds of another one are sown by circulating video footage of some as yet undistributed relief supplies still stored in a hangar at Don Muang – feverishly described by Nation Channel’s “anchor/reporter” @Juarawee on Twitter this morning as “wasted”, “abandoned”:
Juarawee Juarawee K. (Lina)
this is the VDO shows FROC unable to save dozens of donated supplies at Don Muang (boats/mobile toilet/relief packages) bit.ly/vRkYfU
followed by
Juarawee Juarawee K. (Lina)
PM waited until last minute that she had to be airlifted out of Don Muang (wasted chopper fuel cost)…so many donations gone to waste #rant
The video ( http://video.l3.fbcdn.net/cfs-l3-snc4/349722/204/10150345203108379_56373.mp4?oh=f887f42646977a56ce35a08c1ef990b7&oe=4EAF3B00&l3s=20111029170912&l3e=20111031171912&lh=0ca7b30093f0111dbc584 ) actually shows pallets of bottled water, boats, bamboo rafts, portable toilets and bagged supplies – all dry and ready to use. Yes, they do need to be got out to where they’re needed – and with the floods set to persist in some areas for a few weeks yet it seems certain they will be. “Late” yes – but hardly “wasted”…..
As to the jaw-dropping “chopper fuel” comment, it seems to escape this Nation Channel “reporter” that in an emergency situation time actually matters (yes – a point that applies to getting those relief supplies delivered, too).
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The Nation seems to be in full campaign mode again.
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I’m really curious if the boy hack Abhisit Facebook, what will happened to him.
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