Amidst severe criticism and real damage in one-fifth of the country, the Yingluck government was beginning to streamline the current disaster management and fine-tune its communications to the people. But this might not be adequate or in fact too late to appease, if not console, millions of residents in the capital of the country.
Psychological damage has already been rife for weeks now. The experiences of the people displaced from Thammasat University’s Rangsit campus are emblematic of the broader problems caused and reflected by the flooding. Good intentions but poor coordination between concerned Thammasat University senior officials and ruling politicians have left the flood-affected people confused. Core volunteer leaders in Bangkok said Thammasat University administration were at odds in managing the relocation of thousands at the Rangsit campus, hence several human loads of transportation had to be organized while water surrounded the Ayudhya and Pathumthani residents who flocked there.
Government agencies and universities as well as volunteer networks were clumsily fine tuning how to move the people and where to. The first day of relocation saw some 1,400 moved out from Rangsit Campus but only 280 went to Ratchamankala Hua Mak, said the University’s senior management.
Most went to Saraburi, some hundreds returned home and some 200 foreign migrant workers have been moved under the care of the Labour Ministry. It took another two days to clear the temporary shelter at Thammasat Rangsit campus.
Mahidol University Salaya Campus which has received hundreds from nearby Nonthaburi and Ayudhya provinces were also closed down less than a week after opening the temporary encampment.
Now some 1,500 residents are staying at Ratjamangkalastan Stadium, some 4,000 at Chonburi Physical Studies Center, a few hundred at the National Stadium at Pathumwan and another thousand at the Muak Lek Physical Studies Center.
A few hundred others were also scattered in temples and schools near their flooded residence such as those in Nonthaburi. But for 11-year-old Nui, moving again and again within a month was too much for her to cope with.
“Just after came back from Suan Siam (water amusement park) the day before, today we had to pack and get ready to board a bus to Hua Mak,” said the Prathom 6 pupil from Pitsanulok, who arrived at Hua Mak on 24 October from Thammasat Rangsit. Nui said she did not know whether to be honoured to visit Bangkok at this weird time because it was a chaotic and unprecedented experience.
“Everything happened so quickly. I just visited grandparents in Uthai District in Ayuthaya province during the school break. But then I have to move out with aunties to Muang district and now to Bangkok. Hopefully, I can return home to Wangthong District which is not flooded at all soon,” said Nui. She said Thailand should never be flooded again and again, and the affected should not be cast adrift from one place to another.
Amidst the bare, harsh difficulties faced by Nui and other displaced persons and the fears and struggles experienced by all people across the city who wonder if, and when, their house is going to flood, the government has tried to adjust their strategy. Part of this adjustment has been to add more academic and expert faces like former “Irrigation Man” Pramote Maiglad, “Disaster-Warning Man” Smith Dharmasaroja, and “Geo-statistic Man” Anond Snidvongse; until gradually removing the Government Flood Relief Operation Center (FROC) spokesman faces led by Phuea Thai Wim Rungwattanajinda to the senior bureaucrat and royalist Thongthong Chandarangsu.
Invoking the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Act 2007’s article 31 which empowers the government to take over supervision of flood control and drainage in and around Bangkok has produced a sigh of relief for many though it was a belated gesture after the desperate and frustrated people, and in many cases with support of “provincial influential figures,” in some central provinces had already taken unilateral steps: either diverting floods out of their way or dismantling sand-bags/dykes to drain out the water and express their anger.
Resolving distribution of relief items and managing temporary shelter for flood victims has been cumbersome but subject to on-the-ground adjusting. Now that the FROC has said that non-flooded areas would be open for displaced persons who have been moved around from their provinces to Thammasat University’s Rangsit campus, Mahidol University’s Salaya campus, and the Don Mueang center, as well as other scattered places. The announcement came early this week after the “refugees” were moved twice or more.
Government TV channels also changed from being dominated by one-way talks from ruling politicians to a more information-sharing tone. But the current government’s incompetency was not the only factor to be blamed for this unfortunate tragedy; the my-agency-comes-first mindset and bureaucratic hierarchy culture has to equally share a load of shame for the country’s damage. Experts and authorities have conceded that the economic growth orientation, deforestation, and urbanization have caused a tremendous shrink in wetlands and water reservoirs which naturally and historically slowed down the run-offs.
Mr Smith, chief of the National Disaster Warning Center, has said the extent of the current disaster should have been lowered if water was released earlier this year from Bhumibol and Sirikit dams. The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has also played around with the flood-approaching situation after the prime-minister invoked the law, not opening all the sluice gates.
Had the BMA opened the gates two weeks ago to help drain out the northern run-off, the government could have been better managed the floodways to eastern parts of Bangkok as they are naturally-designed and not to pour too much water to the western parts of Bangkok and Nakhon Pathom, noted the disaster prevention and mitigation officials. “The Law was launched just a few years ago and this flood is the first litmus test of how the command/response structure in crisis time works. The Thai way is to seek cooperation from all agencies and the people, but if it does not work, perhaps we need a supra-agency leadership to give orders to all,” said a senior official.
Sources at the Defence Ministry conceded that inefficiency in dealing with pressing emergency situations among government agencies were due to the incapability of both civilian and uniformed heads of several agencies.
“Look at the Irrigation Department, the deputies and the former head are now shouldering the tasks (not the official head) because they know the situation better. Even Red-Shirt politicians are now clashing for public scenes to get their footprints and possible share of the post-flood budget,” said the officers.
Sociologically speaking, observers believed, gone were the days people would sacrifice for others; that was why flood gates and sand bags dykes were destroyed in several provinces causing a quicker attack of water against the C=capital.
Above all, the final chapter of the sufferings is now borne by the middle class which has yet to shed the feeling that the Thaksin-nominee government with hillbilly faces sitting as advisers at many ministries was sailing the country amidst the waters if a tsunami—they were truly frustrated and put all the blame on the government they did not vote for as the culprit bringing “disaster” to their doors.
I haven’t been writing much for a while now. It seems the comments and even topics, have little relevance to what is really going on in Thailand.
These floods are so much worse for Thai people than most of the NM posters and commentators seem to understand, if their silence is any indication.
That’s why it is refreshing to read Khun Archara’s commentary.
This is not about Red Shirts, PAD, bring back Thaksin or even the LM hobby horse.
Khun Archara’s comments are made with obvious awareness.
This story is about Thai people.
If there is a “cause” in these floods, it is one to ensure the issue does not just go back under the carpet. The effects of these floods which started several weeks ago up country, on ordinary Thai people, are far more devastating than any effects of the topics which always seem to attract the spruikers on NM.
It’s a pity that so far (the post has been up for half a day) there are no “wise words” from the usual suspects, either in support or condemnation.
Perhaps something like this crisis is not as important as some of the riveting “intellectual” discussions which seem to be more appealing to the chatterers?
Perhaps I feel it, because we are in the middle of Don Muang and after securing our house, as much as we can (still flooded to 6 inches on the ground floor), we, as did many of our Thai neighbors, decided to stay, rather than go to grossly inadequate accommodation elsewhere, In any case we will still likely be “confined” to our upstairs area for the next few weeks. As for our neighbors, many of them have no income for now. Food on the table means a lot.
After the floods recede, whoever is in charge needs to make this the number one issue in the country – for the Thai people. Easier said than done as you can already see the greedy pollies and others, lining the ducks up against the wall, so as to enjoy the spoils of reconstruction.
Then as there will be lots more booty in rebuilding, than the now difficult programs of tablets for the kids and increases in the daily wage (one which will no doubt be the most exploited of all) it provides a face saving position for the current government.
In the meantime, my wife won some money in the Gov’t lottery today.
She’s happy – so am I.
Sometimes these simple things are so much more important .
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The Y2011 Big Deluge, commentaries say, is a once every 50 year (or so) event. Does that ‘estimate’ give me any comfort (that I’ll probably not live long enough to experience another big Thai flood)?? Should I get some obscene solace that other people endured or are still enduring far worse (or deeper) flood waters, or that yes indeed mansions of ‘the wealthy’ or ‘the wealthier’ also were flood savaged??
The truth is no one truly knows when the next Big Thai Flood . . . it could be within the next 5 years! Just like a heart attack (and this flood does feel like a very painful attack on our hearts), the underlying causes of (culprits responsible for) the flood are many (deforestation, haphazard development planning, poor flood infrastructure, various past administrative neglect, etc. etc.). Certainly the ineptitude of the Yingluck administration in the management of the crisis had made an already devastating national tragedy even more painful.
Some 2 million Thai people (or is it families?) had been, still being devastated by Y2011 big flood, it is reported. More than the 2 million number, and more than the tens of thousands of factories drowned inside or outside industrial estates, and more than the heart-breaking images of old and young people visibly shatterred with fearful eyes looking at our TV screens, this Y2011 Big Flood should be a Thai awakening of how national complacency and ‘blind’ faith in our political ‘masters’ to protect us from ‘long-term’ verifiable devastating risks (from nature) could undo us all.
Thailand’s water (flood) management is all about risk management. Surely there should be Thai technorats aplenty who could raise, elevate Thailand’s capability in managing devastating nature (flood) risks?
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My House in BangYai was flooded nearly 15 days ago. The levels hasn’t gone down since. If the Bangkokians think that a little water (30-50cm) is hurting them, wait till they get a load of 1.2-1.8m that we’ve got down here in Nonthaburi.
It’s funny how those with the loudest complaints are those least effected.
Says a lot, doesn’t it?
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Leeyiankun # 3, having had more than a week of knee deep water in our house and waist deep water in our Don Muang soi , I feel for you. I hope when you say “Bangkokians”, you are not referring to us who live in flooded districts like Don Muang – we are also part of Bangkok and the frustrations are similar, to people such as you, who live in adjoining provinces such as Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani? Amazingly, we have good friends living on the west side of Muang Thong Thani, which is also in your province and their street is dry as a bone !
Is it selective to flood us – or is it, that water chooses where it will spread?
I have no idea, nor does it seem the the Thai Government, the BMA and FROC. There is no excuse for such gross incompetence and mismanagement. This is not the time to blame however – that should come later. Will it?
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It is a remarkably stressful experience to have your home surrounded by stinking, fetid flood waters for more than a week, combined with the uncertainty that the waters may continue to rise, and that this condition may go on for weeks to come. There is a widespread belief, shared by me, that those of us living in the surrounding suburbs of Bangkok have been sacrificed to save downtown Bangkok from the worst effects. This has led to some civil disorder with more than a few reports of angry residents breaching dikes and tearing down sandbags in order to speed up the drainage of the often chest high water from their neighborhoods.
We are looking around for someone to blame, and I don’t think that people will soon forgive and forget what has happened to them. The Minister of Agriculture for one has received unwanted attention for hoarding donations at Don Muang airport for possible private gain. In post-tsunami Japan we saw a number of resignations of ministers who took the blame for their agencies shortcomings, and one can only hope (but not expect) that the same would occur in Thailand.
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#5
On who is to blame.
a) It seems that this issue has been heavily politicized, basically as a welcome and god-sent occasion to move against the “Thaksin regime,” in its present embodiment by Yingluck Shinawatra. See, for example,
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/264470/from-venice-of-the-east-to-waterworld
Thai Rath’s Sunday political editorial on page three also basically asks Yingluck to resign and make way for somebody who might be more capable. Though the column has pity for her as a person, she must not continue to harm the country. Moreover, the paper deals with this issue by posing it as a “product of democracy.”
b) For some neo-nazi like rhetoric against the political system in general, see the column by Pornpimol Kanchanalak in The Nation of November 4, 2011. Not sure what is more surprising–that she could write this stuff or that The Nation saw it fit for print.
For example, she says, “This ‘new Thailand’ [label for a government program of post-flood rehabilitation] will be created by these ‘filth of the earth’ (the sediment from the floods is not what is meant here), and out of this filth will come more filth. These people [politicians] plan to stay put in their seats of power for a long time, to suck all the blood out of a nation that has been running backwards and in disarray. Because of them, our country has been rotting from within.”
For the whole column, see
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/In-one-and-the-same-fire-clay-grows-hard-and-wax-m-30169153.html
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Now that we know how helpless and clueless the Yingluck government is in tackling a monster flood crisis, could we in all our sanity continue to keep our ‘faith’ in the Yingluck government to carry out the multi-billion relief and long-term flood recovery and protection program Thailand desperately needs?
Should we allow Yingluck’s ‘ineptocracy’ bunch to continue to mess up our lives?
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Vichai #7,
I am glad that you can still stick to your “yellow shirt” attack on Yingluck govt in a very very bad natural disaster time in Thailand. Sad to say, though, you have offered nothing constructive.
Please also note that your “masters” at Democratic party or “yellow shirt” HQ has offered nothig as well.
This flood is simply too great a problem, and everyone is struggling to help and cope. If you can’t and do not want to, please **..* up
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C7. The people will answer that question at the next election and we can rest assured the Thai media will let nobody forget.
The question is though will anybody even raise changing the bunch of dysfunctional bureaucratic entities that couldnt work with each to route waters, couldnt release dammed water when needed, couldnt make a plan etc. The one lesson from this is that Thailand needs a single national water management body that overrides all local control in the interests of the country and one that can function rather than go all neutral and impotent at times of election and governmental change. That is a lot harder and will no doubt take a lot lot longer than waiting for the people to judge the current government in 3.5 years of even the Bangkok governor in a shorter time.
This flood has been a tragedy and was unavoidable but some of the excesses could have been avoided if the bureaucrats who of one would assume are some type of expert if working in that department had made a few decisions. Politicians we may blame and it goes with the job but I doubt there is anyone in the current parliament with any real knowledge of water management. Where by the way is the agriculture minister who I assume the RID comes under? CTP this government and the last one so the one ministry where there should also have been some consistency in management. Then again CTP have never ever been known to take a ministry because they had some expertise or desire to serve, but rather for other reasons one lesser one of which was earlier a bone of contention after their powerbroker lectured other politicians on learning how to protect their fiefdoms from flooding at lesser leaders fiefdoms expense.
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I am not surprised that Neptunian (#8) would now reinject ‘yellow shirt intent on drowning Yingluck’ posturing. A Siam Voices (Asian Correspondent) commentator made a similar point about the Democrat Party (BKK governor) intentions to drown Pathum Thani RED shirts by blocking the monster floods that would otherwise drown Bangkok city.
But if Neptunian would insist that ‘ineptitude’ is indeed a Red Shirt trait and thus excusable in the person of political novice Yingluck, I really should NOT be complaining, eh?
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Excellent comments by Achara Ashayagachat and very interesting ones by Gee (did your partner collect her winnings from the above-ground lottery or the underground lottery?: of course you don’t have to answer this one) and Arthursen but a pretty mean-spirited comment from Vichai N although this does might well represent the views of those who did not vote for the current government in the recent elections anyway.
None of my partner’s real estate has yet been affected butt hat does not actually make her feel any better. As she argues when she was young sdhe loved it when it flooded in the countryside: one could catch a lot of fish (and even the odd snake) and enjoy swimming in the relatively clean floodwaters. However, like others who have a rural experience she recognizes that living in urbanized Bangkok and its surrounds is quite different to living in rural Thailand.
One of the worst impacts of the current flooding (apart of course from farmers in rural areas who may have lost most of their wet season rice crop) is the loss of employment for poorer people, whether they live in Bangkok or have migrated on a temporary basis (even worse for “legal” and “illegal” migrant workers from neighboring countries). Some of these affected places of employment (especially in the industrial estates) might not open before early next year (to illustrate the point we placed an order for a new car that we might have to wait up to nine months before delivery: minor inconvenience for us I know). Moreover, it is not just lower income workers that are being affected but also increasiongly middle-income workers.
However, while Bangkok or at least portions of Bangkok flood there are equally serious problems in neighboring Cambodia where nearly all of the damage has occurred in rural areas (actually most of the people who have lost their lives in Thailand have been living in rural areas) but there has been litte coverage of the Cambodian floods (also problems in Mekong Delta but Vietnamese authorities have proved quite adept at mitigating the worst impacts).
I guess for people who have been directly affected by the flooding arguments as to who are or should be held responsible have taken back seat although I would also guess when the waters have subsided this state-of-affairs may not prevail.
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#11 Shane Tarr. The winnings were not from the “official” prize pool.
I guess you could say, yet another case of Thai people “doing for themselves”.
Let us hope the aftermath is not a repeat of 1995, where good intentions and some words from HM during his birthday speech that year, were largely lost in the whirl of Thai politics and corruption.
So far, with how this is being played out among the politicians and civil servants, that seems unlikely. But, one can live in hope.
Since 1995, the industrial investment has risen enormously, as have middle class McMansion homes in the flood path (I am not talking about our humble abode here). Hopefully this will bring some very powerful influences into the game.
Thailand has become a vital part of the international manufacturing food chain.
As reported, among other things, there will be major shortages with the supply of autos and computer hard drives (25-30% of the world’s production has been knocked out ).
In turn, the immediate effect on ordinary Thais, who have no work right now and the consequences to any government who ignores their plight, or gives token lip service to their needs, as seems to always happen, could finally initiate a real people’s movement in the country. But, on that I also fear, it could be “same,same, not much different”. Although, the anger is rising in this very red shirt district, against the local PT member, who in turn is also a rather prominent red shirt, for his seeming inaction and lack of real care. That was the “word on the canal” yesterday, when my wife trekked out to do some shopping. So maybe the silver lining is a real awakening of Thai people…one can but hope here, too.
Paraphrasing someone who commented in the NYT this week, “Thailand might have escaped, the full ramifications this could have on its industrial income. It’s doubtful it could get away with it a second time”.
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Flooding this year has affected 64 of Thailand’s 77 provinces, shuttered 10,000 factories, destroyed 15 percent of the nation’s rice crop and threatened the homes of 20 percent of the country’s 67 million people, and, the death toll rose to 567, according to government data. Fetid waters perfumed by human/animal feces and uncollected tons of garbage remain in many parts of the Bangkok and in deep unreached parts of Thailand.
But that is NOT important or urgent. What is important and urgent is to get the amnesty completed for Beloved Leader Thaksin.
Yingluck’s performance and priorities continue to astound and amaze.
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How does anyone know whether the current situation has been handled competently or not? What is the benchmark? You don’t know if anyone could have “done better”. Hindsight is always 20/20. Opinions are like *rseholes – everyone’s got one.
The family home in Rangsit has been under water for weeks – some reports have said up to 2m. We don’t know, as we can’t get there. We’re not expecting any help from any official sources – they’re more likely to be an impediment. All we want is access to the stuff we need to clean, repair and rebuild without hindrance.
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Jayzee you are right…what benchmarks can be used in this instance or perhaps we could look at the floods in Pakistan last year – actually probably quite a lot worse than in Thailand although I stand to be corrected on this – where its Prime Minister was in London inspecting his real estate and hoping to have morning or afternoon tea with the Queen or perhaps he was just offering support or condolences to some of Pakistan’s star cricketers who appear to specalilize in match-fixing. I don’t recall Yingluck leaving Thailand during the floods to visit her brother in Dubai or wherever he is. Perhaps he sneaked back into Cambodia on a Zodiac inflatable boat. That aside I sincerely hope you can sort out the flood damage to your house: 2 meters under water is not good!
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“How does anyone know whether the current situation has been handled competently or not?” – Jayzee (#14) asks.
When a super-secret Thai cabinet meeting is held to seek amnesty for one unrepentant Thaksin, while millions of people remain submerged for weeks in filthy flood waters and certainly ready to riot, in the midst of an ongoing ‘biblical’ deluge . . . the current Thai ‘situation’ is certainly being very incompetently handled.
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Jayzee #14, I agree that we do not know if another lot of authorities would have handled this disaster any differently.
We do know, last year’s much smaller floods were also beset with problems – different government, but the same minister in charge of the water. Apart from that, most of those in charge, have done this before. So you would hope the’d learnt something from the “test runs” of previous years.
I guess the recriminations and already politicized discussions will go on forever and in what is all too common in Thailand, until this is pushed under the carpet, by yet another “scandal”.
It seems this move to get Thaksin back, and for Yingluck to be otherwise conveniently occupied (Hillary Clinton, Ban ki Moon & now ASEAN) are all quite “conveniently timed”, as “diversions” against criticism. Maybe that’s just my suspicious mind, when it comes to Thai politics.
All I know, having been stuck in the middle of a flooded Don Muang house for the last three weeks, is the “official” support and “official” communications have been very poor indeed. No wonder emotions are running high at the sandbags.
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Vichai N (c13) – you follow your graphic (and, for once, accurate) summary of the flood impact with
“But that is NOT important or urgent. What is important and urgent is to get the amnesty completed for Beloved Leader Thaksin.”
Does it ever occur to you that your total disregard of both the immediate and long-term responses to the floods leaves you looking like just a rhetoric-cranking tub-thumper? There’s much to criticise but to simply ignore what’s being done and planned is, frankly, just absurd.
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” . . . but to simply ignore what’s being done and . . .” – SteveCM
I am not aware that Yingluck, or, FROC, or Sukhumbhand had succeeded at anything with their ‘flood’ control. I had just lunch today and the waitress said that she comes from Khon Kaen and she explained that her village is still more than 2 meters under water for more than 2 months now.
Yingluck’s bunch of ineptocratic incompetence are almost criminal, and I can understand why thousands of aggrieved Thais are thinking of suing Yingluck’s government.
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Vichai N (c19)
“I am not aware that Yingluck, or, FROC, or Sukhumbhand had succeeded at anything with their ‘flood’ control.”
A frank admission – perhaps Vichai’s been away? As I’ve said, there’s much to criticise. The lady from Khon Kaen deserves all our empathy and it’s good to see a reference to an area that has been almost totally overlooked in media coverage since the floods approached Bangkok. The Isaan Record* has managed to maintain some awareness of the situation there, but it’s almost a lone voice.
* http://isaanrecord.com/
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“A frank admission – perhaps Vichai’s been away? ” (SteveCM #20)
And speaking of a very frank confession: ” . . .The Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC) has never had a systematic plan to battle the crisis and has simply tackled problems as they have arisen on a day-to-day basis, said Tirachai Wuthitham, secretary to Justice Minister Pracha Promnok, who heads FROC. . .”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Aide-to-Pracha-admits-lack-of-planning-at-FROC-30170235.html
My point: Incompetents in government endanger the lives and welfare of the people. And that is criminal.
Not even Yingluck’s impeccable hairdo nor her stunning ‘presidential’ clothes could succeed to alleviate the Thais hardships and misery, during and after the Great Flood,
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As usual, Vichai, you don’t see fit to finish the (selective) quote – so here’s the missing bit:
“Tirachai said that because the catastrophic flooding occurred so soon after a change in the government, it was inevitable that the government would only be able to deal with problems in this way – something for which it has been heavily criticised.”
And your “Not even Yingluck’s impeccable hairdo nor her stunning ‘presidential’ clothes could succeed to alleviate the Thais hardships and misery, during and after the Great Flood,…..
As I noted on its first outing*, I see your new-found word ‘presidential’ is getting further use. I hope you won’t wear it out too soon…..
* http://asiancorrespondent.com/69951/the-message-and-the-accent-the-first-meeting-of-hillary-clinton-and-yingluck-shinawatra/
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” . . . the catastrophic flooding occurred so soon after a change in the government . . .” (SteveCM #22)
But the Thai Agriculture Minister (who was a carry over from Abhisit’s government), whose credentials (not hairdo though) for water management are impeccable, had or should have known since June2011 that a very dangerous water build-up at the dams and the unrelenting monsoon rains. Surely when Yingluck held her first cabinet meeeting, the danger or the threat of the build-up to the Great Flood should have been raised? And when they created the FROC, do they have any clue or idea at all about the massive scale of the monster flood they are dealing with and must therefore PLAN accordingly . . . instead of running around doing the stupid motions of being busy and . . . concerned? Surely by that time the Thai Agriculture Minister should have apprised Yingluck personally about the monster flood so that appropriate response(s) could be made.
Even USA had already known, through their satellites, that Thailand will be facing the Great Flood and had sent their US Aircraft Carrier(s) to bring disaster succor . . . but had been ignored by Yingluck’s government because of . . . incompetence.
I dub thee Yingluck . . . ‘presidentially’ incompetent with impeccable hairdo, of course!
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Vichai, your creative game-play with words is a matter for you – far be it from me to critique others’ style or choice of amusement. Your creative approach to facts – along with context/chronology – is another matter and you seem impervious to verifiable information already made available to you (at http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/10/25/managing-people-harder-than-managing-water/).
But, from some sensible points made in your c2 comment, it seems you’ve now reverted to established form and are set to continue with it – little point therefore in pointing out again what you’ve already chosen to ignore. Except maybe this – that it was the law-unto-themselves Thai military who cold-shouldered the US carrier fleet. But somehow I doubt you’ll be pursuing that point in your drum-beat posting.
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It seems Khun Vichai just cannot help himself with his attacks on Thailand’s first female PM. Reading between the lines is a reluctance on Khun Vichai to assess Yingluck as PM based on factors other than her gender. Perhaps he is not being deliberately sexist but I seem to detect at a meta-level there is some latent sexism (would Khun Vichai mention Ahbisit’s hairdo in his favorable assessment – note I am not using biased – of the previous government)?
However, there is one minor point that Khun Vichai has overlooked in relation to water levels in Thailand’s dams. EGAT is probably as equally as important as the Royal Irrigation Department in assessing whether water levels should be realised in dams or at least those with a multi-purpose of providing both water for irrigation and electricity. There are also some minor inconveniences in any hydrological assessment of flooding and they partly relate to what hyopthesis – 1 million years, 100,000 years, 1,000 years or 100 years hydrologists utilize. Even the most sophisticated modeling exercises are sometimes wide of the mark or at least that is what I was told by hydrologists when I spent a stint at the Mekong River Commission.
All that aside I think Khun Vichai would enhance his credibility if he was a little more empathetic to people who have been severely impacted upon by Thailand’s floods, irrespetive as to whether they live in Thailand or upcountry or other regions of Thailand AND also as pointed out by others a little more factual with his critiques of the incumbent regime.
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Deputy PM Kittirat was explaining on TV to Sorayuth and Khun Tun what the government’s response(s) will be to counter ‘second time’ and I am dismayed that the Deputy PM could not articulate any specifics that would allay my and every Thai people’s concerns. Even Khun Tun’s specific point that foreign and Thai companies that had sufferred from the inundation are in quandary (real question of foreign/Thai investors making an exodus from the unsafe industrial estates) because the Yingluck government has yet to offer concrete specific measures that address the businessmen/industry’s ‘next time’ concerns.
Irrespective of whether one likes or dislikes capitalism and those foreign investors, the point remains that those businessmen’s plans to continue or discontinue or hedge their investment/expansion/rebuilding outlays in Thailand will determine whether Thailand continues on with its merry path to growth and more jobs, or, suffer a painful brake on growth and possible shrinkage in business and job opportunities because current Thai government’s neglect and aimless response to the Great Flood issues.
My Isan friends had told me that in reality flooding had already started in Korat since March 2011 . . . then growing to the behemoth flood by October2011. It’s already December and my Isan friends are getting very edgy because they could almost smell the flood to restart again at Isan region this March2012. Edgy because Yingluck has yet to offer a clue on what she will be doing . . . if any.
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Vichai’s friends in Korat might well be edgy but Korat is only one province in Isan – admittedly an important province – and there has been heavier than normal flooding in some other provinces (e.g. neighboring Buriram and Khon Kaen) but on my way up to my partner’s farm I did not notice flooding to have as greater impact on the wet season rice crop as it has in many areas of Central Highland.
While I admit visual inspection by myself is no substitute for evidence-driven analysis of the seasonal flooding impacts I am not untrained or unskilled in such matters and also being a trained agriculturalist who also works in the area of flood mitigation and water management. Flooding per se is not as serious issue for rural people as it is for urban people, especially when it can be managed.
But I don’t think Yingluck can be lampooned for not yet coming up with concrete plans for Korat or anywhere else for that matter. And even she cannot I am not sure in a region of Thailand where PT literally blitzed the incumbent government at the polls in July Isan people will specifically turn against Yingluck or PT. Being very unscientific here I would hazard a guess and based on a few too many bottles of lao khao that Yingluck is still very popular amongst many people in Isan.
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Shane (#27) raises an interesting theory that this Great Flood, even if the Yingluck government fails to come up with a coherent ‘flood managment master plan’, will leave the Peau Thai Party and Yingluck election popularity untouched.
Even if many foreign investors fold and run, Thai businessmen freeze their investment plans, hundreds of thousands of Thais join the unemployed . . . because Yingluck could not produce a coherent ‘flood management master plan’, the Isan people will still vote for Yingluck and Peau Thai Party while they drown.
Really? Incompetence in government is irrelevant, really? Even if that incompetence was/is responsible for loss in lives, loss in jobs, and unbearable misery?
Nah. The Isan people are NOT stupid nor truly hard core Peau Thai supporters, not if their lives could be ruined by incompetence.
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c26
So – from saying nothing was done, the drumbeat moves into saying nothing’s even lined up to be done. Oh dear…..
Strange that Kittirat (as reported by Vichai N, anyway) made no mention of proposals as described on 9 November – see http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/265350/plan-hatched-to-revitalise-tense-nation. Note, by contrast, in that article (just 2 weeks ago) the quote from Abhisit: ” ‘It’s premature to talk about rebuilding,’ Mr Abhisit said. ‘The situation remains critical.’ “
Strange that Kittirat (as reported etc…..) made no mention of the the Strategic Committee for Reconstruction and Future Development (SCRF) headed by Virabongsa Ramangkura – see http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Action-not-words-will-restore-confidence-Kittiratt-30169537.html. That same evening (9 November), I saw Virabongsa interviewed on ThaiPBS. One of the points he made – with specific reference to Japanese investors – was finding out from the Japanese insurers exactly what they would be looking for in infrastructure (particularly flood protection) improvements to enable them to go on insuring clients with factories in Ayutthaya etc. Plainly, it’s a complex and absolutely key part of the equation that must be addressed before plans are actioned.
Now, a panel with however grand a name is not in itself a solution to anything – but to, yet again, suggest that nothing is (forgive the analogy) in the pipeline to be done is, yet again, frankly absurd. Contrary to Abhisit’s advice, the immediate and long-term futures are being very actively considered and planned-for by this government. That said, even if it were headed by Yingluck’s brother, nobody would sensibly be expecting to see a confirmed/fully-costed blueprint for every “specific measure” just yet. But perhaps Vichai is one of those who thinks – for example – that a 200km flood-way mega-project can materialise in weeks or that a myriad Thai bureaucratic fiefdoms can simply be consolidated into one super water agency overnight?
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In short what SteveCM (#28) means to say . . . . ahem . . . yes sorry, but . . . let’s wait for Yingluck’s supercommittees to complete its study, o.k.?
If only the Yingluck government will just articulate to the Thai people what really went wrong that her government could be so completely wrong about The Great Y2011 Thai Deluge that resulted in horrific devastations here there everywhere (my suspicion of gross incompetence just could not be erased), then maybe that would be a good start . . .
Because if the Yingluck government could NOT pinpoint or articulate what went wrong, how could I be soothed to believe my government (and its supercommittees) could eliminate those wrongs towards a long-term flood management solution?
My Isan friends are still edgy . . . very very edgy.
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Vichai N 39
Vichai, whilst I agree with most of what you say, you might want to remind your Isan friends that they are the ones who voted in the current Taksin (sorry Ynigluck) Government.
Lets hope they don’t make the same mistake next time.
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Vichai N – 29
I dont understand why you are so keen to pinpoint the flood as this government incompetency? yes I agree that the handle of the relieve effort is a bit sub-par but if you recalled, both Abhisit and Yingluck were literally swim to see their supporter during the voting season on June. Yes it was already flooded even before Yingluck took the office.
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” . . . you might want to remind your Isan friends that they are the ones who voted in the current Taksin (sorry Ynigluck) Government. . .”
I don’t think my Isan friends need reminding. But they confessed to me that their loyalties to the PTP party had been shattered the the patently inept handling of monster floods by Yingluck and her crew. The very unethical and openly dishonest handling of the flood relief . . . partcularly the sticking of Thaksin and PTP MP labels on donations had embarrassed my Isan friends. And yes they cringed at that item about the Red Shirts effectively taking over the FROC relief distribution and shooing out volunteers not willing to wear Red . . . as raised at the recent parliamentary debate.
But my Isan friends also deeply distrust the Democrats. But surprise surprise they were visibly moved by the soldiers (everywhere and everday) helping out during the flood, while their Red leaders were busy elsewhere sticking dishonest labels at donations.
BTW, with all those ‘distractions’ I mentioned above, is it no wonder that the Yingluck/FROC failed at just every flood control measures?
Why did Yingluck delay the release of water from the bursting dams for one month? That one month delay . . . was the reason the flood became the monster that Yingluck could NOT control.
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c32
Needless to say (and Vichai N won’t), much was “raised” in the debate – and rebutted.
“Why did Yingluck delay the release of water from the bursting dams for one month?”
Feel free to enlarge on and clarify this further claim.
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SteveCM — 33
Because she couldn’t get through to Dubai?
Because she was out shopping for more (100000 Baht+) shoes?
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“Because she couldn’t get through to Dubai?
Because she was out shopping for more (100000 Baht+) shoes?”
Yes we get it, Soonuk Dun.
Not only is she Thaksin’s clone but she is the clone of Imelda Marcos. Shoes. Because why? I guess Soonuk Dun must be thinking that she must be in that Asian mold of shoe-loving dictatorial women.
Ha ha. Very funny.
Now, can Soonuk Dun explain his or her shoe fetish?
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“Why did Yingluck delay the release of water from the bursting dams for one month?”
This question remains unanswered to his day . . .
The Yingluck cabinet included Agriculture Minister Theera who was a carry over from the Abhisit administration. Agriculture Minister Theera was first and foremost a water management expert. He was getting these regular dams and rainfall reports that had consistently been reporting that rainfalls since March 2011 were 45% or so above normal, and dams are about to burst. At their first cabinet meeting in August, surely the threat of a big deluge should have been at the top of their agenda. Was it? When did the Yingluck cabinet seriously took the flood/dams matter into consideration.
Definitely Agriculture Minister must have warned Yingluck of the danger of the bursting dams and unrelenting monster moonsoon.
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I am beginning to wonder if Khun Vichai actually understands the politics of water management in the Realm.
As I said in an earlier post RID is not the only player or stakeholder in how water is managed in Thailand’s dams. Has Vichai not heard of EGAT or if he has does he not understand its ability to influence debates surrounding water managment in Thailand?
It is facile to continuously bag the current Government on this issue without also trying to understand the antecedents of who manages water and why they manage or “mismanage” water in Thailand.
I would be alarmed if my 5 year old son just kept repeating ad nauseum his dislike of a particular person and what s/he represents or misrepresents without also making at least some reference to observable facts and archival material!
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c36
This has got beyond tedious, though there does seem to be some sign of Vichai N actually managing at least a selective glance at the data and references provided before – which (how many more times does it need to be said?) show that discharge from the main dams was significantly increased in August, increased yet higher in September (bar the few days reduction reported (and actioned?) by Theera) and even higher (to emergency levels – by then out of dire necessity) in October.
As expected, no response to the invitation to back up the false premise “Why did Yingluck delay the release of water from the bursting dams for one month?” assertion – neither here nor at http://asiancorrespondent.com/70689/poll-natural-disaster-and-mismanagement-cause-the-floods-part-1/#disqus_thread where it was also wheeled out.
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Definitely very bad judgment . . . Yingluck made a terrible call.
Thai Agriculture Minister Theera admitted that the government delayed the release of water from the dams ‘to allow the farmers to complete their harvest’. This admission was published in every Thai and several foreign newspapers.
I could imagine that Thai Agriculture Minister Theera made that decision around July – August. He must have consulted PM Yingluck at around mid-August and I imagine the conversation was something like this.
Yingluck: “Theera what should be done? The rainfalls just keep on pouring and the dams about to burst? . . .”
Theera: “It does not look good PM. But this month August, 2011, the rainfall was only above normal by 22% . . previously for past few months it was 45% or more. So I’ll cross my fingers that the rains will subside and we can keep the waters in the dams a few weeks more PM Yingluck. ”
PM Yingluck: “O.K. then Theera. You cross your fingers and I’ll cross my legs”.
Flood management was based on a toin toss and optimism is what I guessed happened . . . that resulted in the loss of 600 lives, and huge devastation on property and people’s well-being.
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Vichai: you are guessing on all of this, making unfounded assumptions about actions.
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” . . .I am beginning to wonder if Khun Vichai actually understands the politics of water management . . Has Vichai not heard of EGAT? . ..”(Shane #36)
I couldn’t imagine EGAT suggesting to PM Yingluck in August2011 to keep more water when the dams are already near bursting and the monsoon season has only just begun.
Vichai N frankly does not have to understand politics of water management. I only know for a fact that Yingluck was a novice, untested in politics and unprepared in crisis situations, and, a clone full of insecurities and doubts goaded to assume the premiership by Thaksin as his surrogate.
Swamped by too many distractions perhaps, Yingluck was NOT paying attention even as the north of Thailand was already being heavily inundated by slow moving monster floods. Indecisive perhaps . . . she kept postponing to make the decision . . . hoping, desperately hoping.
In my opinion the devastations and death from the monster natural disaster could have been diminished, significantly diminished if Yingluck and her crew were paying attention.
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Vichai N – 39
You totally missed the point here, the water level in the dam suppose to be below 20%-30% (depending on the size of the dam) during August to braced for the monsoon season. If we have a half full dam (50% level) then it is too late. Its because they start to released water heavily at the end of August, that’s why its start flooded from September onward. If you check the rate of “water released daily” for all the major dams (Buhimipol and Sirikit namely) you will see that they had had released very little water during April-June (although its a dry season). There’s nothing much Yingluck can do, she official took office on Aug 17th, much too late to do anything.
Furthermore, about her being novice, its obviouse that you don’t know much about PT (or former PPP), since her brother departure, Yingluck has been the main actor hehind the scene running PPP and PT for her brother, she is no novice just because you just know of her exitance recently. She was there all along since PPP time.
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Khun Vichai’s imagination runs to gratutious and patronizing remarks about Thailand’s female PM – crossing her legs and hoping for the best – which might seem to indicate that he is quite (no extremely) sexist and finds he is incapable of coping with Thailand’s first elected female PM.
I know New Mandela is against repetitive ranting, unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse but I am not sure Khun Vichai qualifies himself as anything more than this at present: well at least on this topic. His points made relating to LM and how people are treated are good points but here I am afraid he is wide of the mark.
Some might even argue Khun Vichai needs a good swift kick in the u=you nowheres…….
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Multiple “guessing”, serial “imagining” and so much “perhaps”. Really, Vichai N – time was when you actually managed to at least look like you’re doing more than shooting the breeze.
Then again, as you yourself concede, larded with so much conjecture there’s obviously no need to “understand” before pronouncing: “Definitely very bad judgment . . . Yingluck made a terrible call”.
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“Definitely very bad judgment . . . Yingluck made a terrible call”. My assessment of the novice incompetent PM Yingluck stands.
The worsening floods and devastations at the North of Thailand was actually raised and considered at the first Yingluck cabinet meeting on August 11, 2011. It was the ‘second major item’ of Yingluck’s cabinet at that meeting.
http://media.thaigov.go.th/pageconfig/viewcontent/viewcontent1.asp?pageid=472&directory=1944&contents=59327
“The second major item on the agenda that the Prime Minister stressed was the flooding from the effect of tropical storm Nok Ten. The Cabinet Secretary-General stated that the Prime Minister is scheduled to visit some of the affected areas in the Northern region including Uttaradit, Phrae and Nan provinces respectively. The Prime Minister also instructed relevant Ministers to visit the affected areas and directed the Ministry of Interior to be the focal point in coordinating the relief effort with the Policy and Agricultural Assistance Standard Committee as well as citizens affected by the flood. At the same, the Prime Minister instructed the Office of the Permanent Secretary to the Prime Minister’s Office to setup an Emergency Call Center 1111 to compile a list of complaints as well as provide information for people wishing to make donations to areas and people affected. The Government’s Public Relations Department has also been instructed to provide updated information and warning so the public can be aware of latest developments at the same time allowing relevant agencies to assist those in affected areas.
In addition, the Prime Minister instructed the Ministry of Finance to consider revising regulations concerning emergency reserve funds that can be used to assist provinces so that they are more efficient and thus be able to provide more timely assistant to people in affected areas/ The Prime Minister also instructed the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives to oversee and inspect areas damaged by the floods especially agricultural areas in order to provide necessary assistance. The Government has in place projects that will assist those affected in the medium-term that includes rehabilitation. In this connection, the cabinet is not able to use the budget set aside for rehabilitation as it has yet to make its policy statement and will use funds from the current budget.
At the same time, the Government has established a Working Group to find a long-term solution to the problem. It has invited relevant agencies including the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Environment to setup a meeting and lay out a long term plan as well as review and integrate previous water management plans for better efficiency in terms of dealing with the floods.”
But PM Yingluck and her crew WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. And my suspicion that the Yingluck cabinet was criminally negligent by failing to address the threats/dangers of the bursting dams/monster monsoon lingers . . . because succeeding Yingluck cabinet meetings suddenly went silent about the floods, until too late.
By September2011, Thaksin even butted in, with Thaksin (not Yingluck) holding the cabinet meeting via Skype.
Distracted, ill-prepared, and excessively obedient to her brother Thaksin’s priorities, Yingluck blundered her way towards the tragedy of the Thai Big Flood, which resuled in lives lost and sufferrings and misery to every Thai.
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Exquisite irony that Vichai N doesn’t (can’t?) see that quoting at length a report of the 1st cabinet meeting dealing with the flood issues flatly contradicts his renewed claim immediately afterwards that “…PM Yingluck and her crew WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION.”
Still, at least it drops backs to a mere “…my suspicion lingers…” etc after that. As with opinions, all are entitled to their suspicions – though one has to determinedly ignore all reports of subsequent cabinet meetings dealing with the flood issues to even begin to place any value on this one.
BTW, Thaksin’s famous Skype conference call with ministers took place after the full cabinet meeting was concluded. One can take a view about the merits/wisdom of the exercise – but it’s (yet more) gross distortion of reality to call it “Thaksin (not Yingluck) holding the cabinet meeting”.
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Come now Vichai, you are exaggerating. You say: “. . . because succeeding Yingluck cabinet meetings suddenly went silent about the floods, until too late.” Your note refers to the 11 Aug cabinet meeting.
The synopsis of the following meeting (16 Aug) is here: http://media.thaigov.go.th/pageconfig/viewcontent/viewcontent1e.asp?pageid=472&directory=1943&contents=59452
Floods seem to be no. 1 agenda item for that meeting and comments on the PM’s visit to flooded areas.
The next one (25 Aug) is here:
http://media.thaigov.go.th/pageconfig/viewcontent/viewcontent1e.asp?pageid=472&directory=1943&contents=59731
Again, floods are not missing.
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Holding a cabinet meeting and acknowledging a flood disaster brewing . . . then doing nothing. The novice woman delegates and forgets about ‘major matters’ discussed in her cabinet meeting.
Oh well. Certain Reds believe in their fairies, until they drown to their necks.
BTW Sanyo Thailand had decided today that it will be closing down their semi-conductor operations permanently. Sanyo President
Mr Tetsuzo explained that prolonged flooding at Rojana Industrial Park caused so much damage to the company’s machinery and buildings that the cost of renovations would be too high to bear.
So far the Yingluck government has NOT done anything to restore the faith of the Thai (and business) people in their government to prevent a repeat of the crisis, and, render them the necessary assistance to get back to their shattered lives.
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Okay, got it Vichai. You were not attempting to be accurate but intended to mislead in order to make a point (that actually requires no evidence as it is just an allegation).
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How many cabinet meetings before PM Yingluck and her crew realized that more and more provinces at Northern Thailand were sinking . . . and one cubic meter of flood water could indeed drown her if she just sat still and not MOVE.
Were Yingluck and those PT ministers truely that dumb?
If not dumb, then the Yingluck cabinet were distracted, unfocused and just plain incompetent. That much was admitted by the FROC and by the Thai Agriculture Minister Theera to explain their confused scatterred too-late-too-little response to The Big Flood.
I mention the Sanyo (#47) above to highlight that if the Yingluck crew continue on with their bungling incompetent way, then the Sanyo exodus could definitely be a . . . . . flood.
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Khun Vichai should read a bit more widely than he does. Instead of bagging the current government for what it cannot possibly achieve in a few shorts days or even months a reader commenting on the closure of the Sanyo Semi-Conductor Plant in Thailand made the point that perhaps Thailand needs to move up the international value chain anyway.
Bula, the reader, makes the point that PHOTOVOLTAICS (PVs), which generate electrical power by converting solar radiation into direct current electricity using semiconductors that exhibit this so-called photovoltaic effect (see WIKIPEDIA for a more detailed explanation) are becoming price competitive with the type of conventional semiconductor that Sanyo has been manufacturing in Thailand and other countries such as Vietnam and the Philippines.
This would imply that to move up the value chain and also provide greater material benefits to Thai workers (and of course Sanyo itself) the closure of such a plant (yes of course the immediate and direct impact on workers, their families and local communities is severe but cannot be blamed on the present government).
Khun Vichai would position himself better as he wants to bag the current government incessantly by assessing whether its policies towards upgrading the technical skills of the Thai workforce enable a company like Sanyo to reinvest in Thailand. Of course such changes do not occur overnight and are not directly related to the recent flooding but Khun Vichai would garner more credibility for his arguments if he were to sketch in some detail what type of policies the government could or should pursue leverage the flooding to improve the living standards of all Thais.
CHEERS!!!!!!!
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c51 “Khun Vichai should read a bit more widely than he does.”
Yes, he should – but forgive me for doubting he’ll ever get further than cherry-picking tidbits that support his one-note opinionating.
Sanyo Semiconductor was acquired by Arizona-based ON Semiconductor corporation in January 2011 and its pre-flood Thai output made up just 5-10% of ON’s global production – this while ON reports spare capacity at its China, Malaysia and Philippines plants. No surprise then that ON took the view that they could not justify the cost of reinstating the Thai sites when they have ready-made cheaper options to increase output elsewhere. While obviously a blow for Thailand and the Thai employees, such is globalism.
Other recommended reading – though it’d probably upset Vichai’s digestion:
“Globally and regionally, Thailand remains an attractive investment destination. We won’t expect lot of businesses to relocate,” Annette Dixon, the World Bank’s country director, at a press conference yesterday. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailand-remains-attractive-investment-destination-30170838.html
“I think that most companies will stay in Thailand,” says Setsuo Iuchi, regional president of JETRO, the official Japanese trade organisation… Other Southeast Asian countries have their own pitfalls. Thailand is centrally located, reasonably cost-efficient and consistently pro-investment. “It’s a good business environment,” says Iuchi. http://www.forbes.com/sites/simonmontlake/2011/11/22/floods-dampen-thai-manufacturing-appeal-but-dont-bet-on-an-exodus/
While Thailand’s floods offer a golden opportunity for automakers to diversify their investment across the region – hunting down cheaper suppliers in nearby Vietnam or Indonesia – the kingpin of the Thai market, Toyota, has no plans to go anywhere. “Toyota is so comfortable in Thailand, I don’t see any major move away any time soon,” said auto industry analyst Michael Dunne. “Thailand is a premier manufacturer without equal.” http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/15/toyota-remains-loyal-to-flood-hit-thailand/
And so on and so on…..
Of course, none of this is likely to dent what looks to be Vichai’s schadenfreude as he looks for ever more inventive rocks to throw. Not should anyone be complacent. Savvy manufacturers/investors are predictably extracting maximum advantage in the shape of tax waivers, BOI concessions and numerous other financial incentives – their version of “no money, no honey” perhaps. The Thai government plainly needs to work hard both to retain existing investment and continue to attract more. Contrary to Vichai’s endlessly repeated invective, they are doing just that.
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Thanks StevenCM for the references you provide. There is nothing like a few evidence driven assertions to counter the drivel that some people appear intent on dishing up.
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Excuses and excuses and more excuses . . . but Yingluck’s flood had not gone yet, s**t! Given more time, rather than cleaning up the stink and garbage from Yingluck’s flood, perhaps I too could read widely and be wise . . . like Shane and SteveCM.
But I have more important things to do and reading news headlines will suffice. Today I made another inspection of my in-laws property at Muang Ake. Despite Peau Thai Party thank-you-Khun-Arun-for-ridding-us-of-the-floods that continue to hang brightly at Muang Ake’s entrance, the even blacker smelly more diseased floods persist. Last Sunday it was waist-deep, this Sunday it was knee deep, but I had to rely on army trucks cum 300-baht-boat rides to navigate the floods and the garbage. The many small mountains of gargabe, I am told by the village guards, are accumulating and continuing tokens of appreciation by thankful Muang Ake residents for Froc hard work, and yes thank you Khun Arun.
Again the village guards told me that it was only last Saturday when a Japanese Team came with their pumps to assist Muang Ake village, and that was when flood waters dramatically eased. If the Japan Team is what SteveCM was referring to as ‘Thai Government hard at work’, then I am sincerely thankful.
But still I must confess to lack the rah-rah cheerfulness of both SteveCM and ShaneTarr that the Yingluck Team could indeed produce results to ‘to retain existing investment and continue to attract more’, if Yingluck Team/Khun Karun’s performance at Muang Ake will be the standard of excellence Thailand will be expecting now and tomorrow.
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I only seem to find new posts on NewMandala by chance and missed this completely. Considering all the hot air generated by Vichai maybe just as well.
Noting this quote from the first comment “After the floods recede, whoever is in charge needs to make this ( flood rehabilitation) the number one issue in the country – for the Thai people. ” prompts me to comment.
I have seen no reports about channelizing the rivers and the way this speeds water downstream and thereby worsening floods.
Early 2010, if I recall correctly, the government announced a big budget for these works. At the time the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature) protested to no avail. The practice involves destroying practically all the riparian vegetation which holds the banks and reduces erosion while providing habitat for many beneficial birds and insects.
I have seen the results in all provinces across the north from MaeHongSon to Nan and dredging and stream bank modification is still continuing despite the floods.
Likewise I saw extravagant road projects, still very much in the early ground clearing stage proceeding in Phrae and Chiang Mai these past two weeks.
Considering the need for so much money and construction effort needed to rehabilitate central Thailand, a responsible government should have ordered a halt to the destructive works I describe above.
However considering Chart Thai Pattana is still at the helm of the Agriculture etc Ministry who would be surprised that nothing has changed?
Let us hope Thaksin has the stamina to stand up to Banharn and have his agents tossed out of the government forthwith.
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Vichai N
I wanted to remind you that Yingluck is no miracle worker here, you speak as if she can simply wipe her wand and the water will disappear. Well, things aint that simple, and no, I’m not making excuse for PT and Yingluck.
To your point, what with the sarcasm of Karun? he’s an MP, the only thing the guy can do is corroborate with the BMA, who actually own all the resource the fight the water and that Don Muang district is inside of BKK and is under the BMA’s authority.
Aint it bug you one bit, that the BMA had spent billions into project such as these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2iNyIUzmM
but I have to give you that at least you made it sounded like you admit that your earlier point doesn’t hold much water when SteveCM posted the series of news about Yingluck handling of the flood.
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Ricky’s point (c55) about possibly halting work on the road projects (most a result of the previous govt’s stimulus package that included so much BJT-driven “pork”) is certainly worth considering. But the cost of even suspending let alone cancelling contracts that have already been signed may well prove self-defeating – not to mention the problems of dealing with “commissions” for those projects that have already been transacted.
On Vichai’s latest reiteration, I’m glad for his and his in-laws’ sake (as well as of the many other residents who have suffered so long) that their situation is at last being improved. Perhaps because the long pent-in water now has somewhere to go without risk to the shoes of central BKK folk?
Best I gloss over imaginative stuff like my supposed “rah-rah cheerfulness” – it’s self-evidently as accurate as nearly everything else Vichai has displayed here.
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Regarding Steve’s concern ” the cost of even suspending let alone cancelling contracts that have already been signed may well prove self-defeating “:
My answer is that legislation to deal with this is in order. During the floods the normal rights of millions were suspended and when it comes to the aftermath why should not the rights, granted by dubious contracts be similarly suspended. I douby that companies will go broke as a result.
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Patience is a virtue, but has SteveCM received his Baht 5,000 flood compensation yet?
AND what really will the Yingluck government be doing in Year 2012 (other than giving us Valentine’s kisses) to protect us from another deluge . . . ahem?
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So Vichai are you going to say no if Yingluck blows a kiss your way??????
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I’ll gladly drown in any water,
Deep or shallow,
Or thick as mud
Just for a taste of just one,
Full of heat and very deep,
One Yingluck kiss!
Then oooh to be Red . . very Red
Because of that one Yingluck kiss
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Please stop nonsense postings which really do waste our time. Thanks
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Vichai…so Ricky’s time is so valuable that s/he does not wish to read nonsense. I might not agree with all or most of your analyses but I do appreciate your sense of humor……
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Have just finished repainting the house inside & out – bathroom is next. No internal doors and one internal wall gone. Have rigged up a sink, replaced the ceiling but we have baulked at replacing furniture for the time being. Bed rolls and garden chairs, and a home made shelving system that will take the most valuable items – we are not convinced it won’t happen again this year. A 40 minute downpour one afternoon resulted in local surface flooding – the storm water system is still blocked in places, and the pump engines are still being recovered
Rangsit looks as though it has recovered remarkably well, but a walking tour revealed many small businesses still shut, and many houses still bare or shuttered. Mattress output has at least trebled. I was dismayed to read reports of a BHT10m government party being held to ‘celebrate’ the ‘end’ of the flood.
Family did get the BHT5000 compensation, with a possibility of another 30,000. Bill, including lost wages, exceeds BHT150,000 so far, not including the furniture that hasn’t been replaced.
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Vichai N (62). I assume you agree that it should be legal to write similar, amusingly scurrilous ditties about Queen Sirikit. Yes? Otherwise you would be a hypocrite.
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Assume anything you wish England.
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Vichai N (66). People are rotting in prison for making utterances like yours. Thank you for bringing the hypocrisy of unequal laws into such sharp focus.
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Let that be a warning to every NM reader not to mimic or repeat any of Vichai N’s utterances lest they end up ‘rotting in prison’. Not that I’m aware anyone had taken the liberty to ‘utter a-la-Vichai’ but if they did, they deserve to be in gaol for besmirking my reputation.
I would like to ask England what specific ‘scurrilous’ remarks I had penned that offended him so. Could that be the Yinluck-could-be-a-Bimbo comment because of the utterly embarrassing Yingluck made at Davos recently?
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“Vichai N”:
The only embarrassing (and infantile) thing here is when language fascists never tire to overstress their opponents’ weaknesses in a foreign language they themselves believe to have a better command over.
I wonder if Vichai has ever had to face a public Q&A in which he head to stay polite and answer somewhat intelligently (and diplomatically) when faced with rather unintelligent and self evident questions, such as the one given in the by Vichai provided video.
You may find out, by the way, that in a one on one interview situation, her English is much better.
By all means, criticize Yingluck – to be under scrutiny comes with the job – but can’t you find more substance than ridiculing her command of English?
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Anytime a Thai PM embarrasses herself/himself internationally by making herself/himself look like a bimbo and/or a fool (Yingluck did just that at Yingluck@Davos video clip), she embarrasses the whole Thai nation.
And Nick Nostitz et al should stop making excuses for Yingluck S., the sitting Thai PM. Her education includes a masters at Kentucky U., her pedigree includes being sister and sister-in-law to two former Thai PM (Thaksin and Somchai), she’s immensely wealthy, and was the top executive of huge Thai companies.
Nepotism brought Yingluck to top of Thailand’s business world. Nepotism also brought Yingluck to inherit the Pheau Thai Party from her disgraced brother Thaksin . . . then the Thai premiership she now currently holds. But all Yingluck possesses is her well coiffed but intellectually vacuous head.
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“Vichai N”:
It is always quite comical what some in Thailand believe would “embarrass the whole nation”, which often is in contradiction what actually does embarrass Thailand internationally.
I have been for the past two months in Germany. When people hear that i live in Thailand, comments i hear quite often (more regularly even nowadays than the old prostitution comments, but still less than that the weather must be warm in Thailand) are astonishment and disgust that in Thailand people who criticize the monarchy receive draconian prison sentences.
Most don’t really care much who the Prime Minister in Thailand is, and what that Prime Minister said in Davos – there are anyhow Prime Minsters, Chancellors, Presidents and Foreign Ministers of many countries whose command of English is much worse than Yingluck’s, such as the German Foreign Minster Westerwelle (and Germany still functions…).
And if you look at real international embarrassments than i would suggest to have a look at the former Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi…
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It may be comical to Nostitz & Europeans, but Yingluck@Davos ‘prostitution commentary’ in primitive English was humiliating to thin-skinned Thais.
But after Nostitz explanation, I begin to perhaps to understand why so many Europeans marry near-illiterate Thai women (many met at environments specifically addressed by Yingluck@Davos) . . . whose fractured English were just as ‘good’ as Yingluck’s.
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Nick I could not agree with you more. Khun Vichai appears to despise Yingluck so much that he never misses the opportunity to put the boot in….
I ran some of Khun Vichai’s comments past Vietnamese women I am working with on a project in Vietnam and then they viewed Yingluck in Davos and because they are not biased or prejudiced against Thai PM’s (one might so unusual given Thailand’s role in the past in Indochina) they listed carefully to Yingluck’s arguments and they resonated with them. They are aware of the linkages between rural poverty and paid sex work in its various guises and accept there are no easy solutions to this livelihood issue. Yingluck did not sound like a fully-fledged GAD specialist but if you listen more carefully to what she had to say and more importantly what she says in Thai she does have a pretty good understanding of gender empowerment issues.
As they pointed out Vietnam’s own PM and General-Secretary don’t speak much English but as for Yingluck being a bimbo they categorically said Khun Vichai must be a bit of a sexist and Vietnamese women know quite a bit about sexism themselves.
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If one hates the brother, it is easy understand why that person will also despise his sister. What makes this person’s heart full with anger is the fact that both brother and sister are adored by millions of people.
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Just because Vichai knows a few words of English, “he /she” thinks “he/she” is better than the average or rather most Thais. Vichai is probably a he, so I will use that assumption. In his believe of superiority, he is sadly mistaken.
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How it must annoy hi-so Thais that Yingluk speaks better English, is more “Chinese looking”, has whiter skin, is better educated, and has far more money than they do. Even more galling to them is the fact that the overwhelming majority of Thais voted for her, an achievement that still eludes them.
Vichai, you represent all that is most embarrassing about your ilk.
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“Vichai N”:
The reactionary attitude displayed in your last comment (quite exemplary for certain sectors of Thai society) is possibly the best explanation for the emergence of the Red Shirt movement and the biggest reason why Thai society presently goes through very similar developments that Germany, Austria-Hungary and quite a few other European countries experienced at the turn from the 19th to the 20th century.
The only question here is if Thailand will have to go through similar pains many European societies did in the past on their way to modernization, or if Thailand can manage to learn from our mistakes.
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There’s desperation and gloom/doom sentiments rapidly causing near panic at our housing village at Pathum Thani, where neck high water marks were left untouched after warnings that Year 2012 floods will definitely come and more probably worse.
Should we flee, should we sell or should we just continue to panic?
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JB which village is this? Lots of Pathum housing estates sufferred neck high waters for weeks so your desperation is not uncommon. I suggest you buy yourself a boat . . . that should ease the panic.
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Yesterday evening I drove through the sub-sois of Salaya, Nakhon Pathom and was struck by the extensive damage still left unrepaired, along with the piles of rubbish and dead trees and bushes. The waist high to chest high ‘bathtub ring’ left behind by the fetid, standing water is still quite noticeable.
It is important to note that there is here a near universal belief that the megaflood will return in 2012.
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