BBC under fire on Rohingyas

November 3rd, 2011 by Sai Latt, Guest Contributor · 108 Comments

Burma has a new non-headline-making, yet popular, political event. The BBC Burmese Service has come under intense pressure from ethnic Arakan regarding Anna Jones’ article “Bleak outlook for Burma’s ethnic groups“. The article, which appeared in November 2010 in the Asia Pacific Section, included a map of Burma in which Arakan state was identified with a photo of ethnic Rohingya children. The article also referred to Muslim Rohingya as an ethnic group of Burma as opposed to Buddhist Arakan’s assumption of them as illegal aliens from Bangladesh.

Jones’ article, after a year of its publication, has outraged ethnic Arakans. Hundreds of people, including monks and women, have turned to BBC Burmese Section’s Facebook page to pressure the Section with harsh, nationalistic and even openly racist language. Their demands include a public apology from BBC headquarters, Burmese Section and Anna Jones; removal of the Rohingya photo from the map; and removal of Jones’ article altogether. They also urge the people of Burma to boycott BBC if it fails to apologize.

There are two intriguing points in this protest. First, although Arakan ethnic members very often talk against majority ethnic Burmans (or Bamar) for what they call the “colonization of Arakan”, “Burmanization” and Burmese chauvinism, they now mobilize the entire Burmese population against Rohingyas to “protect Burma and its ‘national races’”. Both Arakan and non-Arakan ethnic members have joined the campaign, calling Rohingyas illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

The newly popular Facebook user, Cho Tu Zal, a writer and director who was at the forefront of the recent anti-Myintson dam campaign is a leading anti-BBC protestor. He wrote on his Facebook that BBC must take responsibility and apologize for this fault. If not, he is prepared to boycott BBC whether or not other people do so and that he would urge his families and colleagues, Aung San Suu Kyi and other leaders to get the BBC apologize.

The anxiety is so strong that the map and the article are taken to be giving away the country, its religion and nations to Rohingya. What is most noticeable in this campaign is not simply their rejection of Rohingya as an ethnic group of Burma, but their strong, public comments with a genocidal tendency. The following quotes written in Burmese illustrate the nature of the campaign.

Kick out all Muslim Kalar [Rohingyas, South Asians/Indians] from Burma. If this doesn’t work, then kill them to death. It’s time for Arakan to unite with each other.

Don’t assume that I won’t sharpen my knife. I am ready to make it sharp for the sake of protecting our nation, religion and races against those Bengali cheaters.

There is no Kalar in Burmese national races. These bastards run into Burma during good time and also in time of starvation. Beggers, they should be kicked out but do not deserve national identity card [citizenship].

Why does BBC create problem like this? I cannot imagine why. Real Burman like myself cannot feel [accept] it. I feel like my [ethnic] relatives and siblings have been given away into the hands of Kalar. Whichever history we look at, Rohingyas are not among our ethnic siblings.

F@#$-ing Kalar, we will slap your face with shoes and cut your heads. Don’t criticize the god with little of what you know. We will set you on fire to death and turn the mosques into wholesales/retail pork markets…

The main messages of the campaign, therefore, are that there is no Rohingya in the Burmese history; the name Rohingya was “invented” as if it should have existed in time immemorial to be valid; Rohingyas are culturally and religiously different illegal immigrants from Bangladesh who are cheating the history to claim the land of Arakan; and Rohingyas (or Bangali-Muslim-Kalars) are threatening to take over Burma. The intense campaign against Rohingyas shows that minority people supposedly the victims of oppression are willing to enact oppression on another oppressed group.

Second, while people of Burma (if not the entire population) are likely to oppose to the Burmese government on every ground, anti-Rohingya campaigners conveniently accept the junta’s classification of eight major ethnic groups (Kachin, Kayah/Karenni, Karen, Chin, Mon, Burman, Arakan and Shan) and 135 sub-ethnic groups. This is one major basis of denial that Rohingya is an ethnic group of Burma. More than that, the campaigners utilizes state-sponsored songs used as propaganda against foreign intervention. Protestors also utilize the government’s not-clever media campaign:

VOA, BBC – sowing hatred among the people

RFA, DVB – generating public outrage

Do not allow ourselves to be swayed by killer broadcasters designed to cause troubles

The above ‘killer broadcasters’ slogan has already been abandoned by state television and newspapers since August this year, but has now been picked up by anti-Rohingya protesters. This illustrates that the government can mobilize support if it plays the Rohingya card. As such, it is doubtful if the current round of anti-Rohingya campaign serves to divert public attention away from Burma’s Chinese dilemma (Myintson dam, growing Chinese population and influence across the country and antagonism against them) and post-election conflicts with the Kachin, Shan and Karen armies.

BBC Burmese Service responded that the map was not intended to illustrate all ethnic groups but only a few of those that are significant. BBC has also changed the map by adding a photo of Arakan ethnic women. These updates do not satisfy the campaigners as they want a complete removal of the Rohingya photo from the map and a public apology. As the days go by without apology, the protesters also turn against other news agencies – Democratic Voice of Burma, Radio Free Asia, the Irrawaddy, Mizzima and Voice of America – accusing them of failing to protect the nation, religion and ‘national races’.

Prior to this protest there are three incidents in October this year related to Rohingya issues. First, U Tin Oo, vice-Chairman of National League for Democracy, said in a weekly interview program with Radio Free Asia (Burmese Section) on his experience as an army commander under Ne Win’s government that Rohingyas are immigrants from Bangladesh and that he helped protect ethnic Arakans from Rohingya threats. Second, Maung Maung Than, Director General of Immigration and National Registration told BBC Burmese in regard to the repatriation of nearly 30,000 Rohingya refugees from Bangladesh that Burma has no ethnic group called Rohingya. In early October, Arakan political groups organized events denouncing the Rohingyas’ use of the name “Arakan”. These events have renewed an intense campaign against ethnic Rohingya.

No political organization or politician, except ex-student leader Moe Tee Zun, has so far picked up the issue. Moe Tee Zun, referring to the stance of Democratic Alliance for Burma (DAB), wrote that Rohingya is not an ethnic group of Burma. He proposes that equal citizenship rights for Roingyas should be guaranteed.

The only openly pro-Rohingya rights has been activist-academic Maung Zarni, a fellow at the London School of Economic, who calls anti-Rohingya campaign “neo-fascist, racist…un-Buddhist, un-Christian and disgusting”.

Recently, online blogs and social networking sites have appeared, openly advocating against ethnic Rohingya. Examples are Anti Rohingya blog and Anti Rohingya Facebook. One of the main patrons of Anti Rohingya movement has been Dr. Aye Chan from Kanda University of International Studies in Japan. He co-authored a publication entitled “Influx Viruses: The Illegal Muslims In Arakan” in which Rohingyas are referred to as “Influx Viruses”.

[Image Source: Burma Bondhead]

[Image Source: Nyi Chay. “There is never Rohingya in Burmese history.”]

[Image Source: http://www.rakhapura.com/ "True Story - Fake Arakans: Passing the Bay of Bengal, Climbing Mountain Trying to Swallow Entire Burma."]

Tags: Burma

108 responses so far ↓

1 Nathan // Nov 3, 2011 at 6:02 pm

Wow, talk about dirty laundry………..what are all the NGO and other “pro-democracy in Burma groups” and “good-hearted followers” of the Burma situation to make of this outburst of demented desire for good old-fashioned ethnic cleansing and genocide against 100,000′s of ethnic Rohingya men, women, children, old people, babies, many of whose families and ancestors have been resident in what is now Burma for generations….maybe just follow the impulse to “walk away” and let them all stew in their own poisonous juices……

Hot debate. What do you think? Quality comment or not? 25 36
2 Igor Prawn // Nov 4, 2011 at 7:57 am

There is indeed a strong element of racism in the Burmese identity – they seem to hate absolutely everyone, Indians, Chinese, Thais, the lot. One begins to understand why minority groups such as the Karen and Shan and Kachin are less than enthused about the Bama-dominated NLDP.

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3 Sa Nay // Nov 4, 2011 at 8:31 am

As a first fact I would like to point out, I’d like to mention that the author of this article didn’t describe the main theme of this Campaign, refusal for Illegal Immigrants.

What we described so far is the fact that we are denying their citizenship status, which can be followed by religious conflicts and armed forces to claim their own state.

To analyze Burmese Politics critically, you all need to consider all situations in side Burma. As a fact you’ve just excerpted, 135 sub-ethnic groups in a state with nearly all armed forces are not in an easy-to-control stage. So, if militants in a suspicious relation with Al-Queda (Muslim Extremists) would bring a lot of negative impacts to Burma rather than positive gains.

I really doubt the agenda of this author because in this article, harsh comments and imprudent expressions regarding Racism, anti-Muslim and oppression based descriptions were mainly cited. Why didn’t you put academic rejections on this issue? We did argue why Rohingyas should not be accepted with logical reasons.

I would like to request the author to be professional. Thank you.

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4 Moe Aung // Nov 4, 2011 at 9:07 am

It is indeed a very sensitive and emotive issue. The plight of the boatpeople in Thai waters in February 2009 kicked off the perennial debate once more in The Irrawaddy.

Burma Insists Rohingyas are ‘Bengalis’

Skin Color and Prejudice Endangers the Rohingya

Who are the Rohingya?

A Historian Looks at the Rohingya October 2009

Interestingly The Muslim “Rohingya” of Burma by Martin Smith 1995, not the most favourable account, was posted October 2006 by the Arakan Rohingya National Organisation.

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5 Rahmat // Nov 4, 2011 at 9:20 am

Thank you Anna Jones …you are the real hero in this world .

Anno Jones you deserve the title Rohingya Princess . Our prayer always with you and your family .

The racists are belongs to those evil tribes who used to eat human , they are modern cannibals .

Hot debate. What do you think? Quality comment or not? 41 60
6 Ye William // Nov 4, 2011 at 3:44 pm

I’m truly amazed by how these pro-rohingya and journalists painting the whole rohingya issue. Neo-Fascist ? Racist ? Potential Genocide ?
Seriously I myself is a Myanmar born Chinese and have a lot of Bamar(burman), Indian and other Myanmar ethnic friends (shan, kayin, kachin, rakkine, mon). Different religious believes: buddhist, christian, muslims and hindus .. all sorts. We debate, argue about races, traditions and religions (have to admit sometimes even insult each other) but hatred? NO. We lived/grew up harmoniously …
Lets face it. With over 87% of population is Buddhists, Myanmar culture/customs are mainly based on Buddhist believes and teachings. Its all about love and respect. These pro-rohingya articles been “selectively highlighting” racist and hatred comments from facebook campaign and trying to make it look like whole rakkine and bamar are the bad guys. I’m not taking anyone’s side here. Of course there are a few immature, irresponsible people, who loves to discriminate and insult other race/religion. But these people do not represent the whole campaign. I’d like to ask how many percentages out of all the comments? And yes, there is no option to click dislike on facebook comment. Don’t forget Myanmar is a few months old democratic nation and most of the people don’t even know how wrong it is to discriminate on skin color, believes, race and sexual orientation. Even centuries old democratic nations still have discriminations, you can’t blame the whole campaign for a few bad eggs.
I’m not anti-rohingya. But after following both sides news and articles, I personally doubt the true intentions behind “rohingyas movement”, i.e. “to be accepted as one of native Myanmar Ethic group” and I’m oppose to this. I’m not against granting citizenship to “some” of these people as they have been living in Myanmar for generations like me. But as Myanmar citizen, I do not welcome influx of any foreigners illegally and not living harmoniously.
This leads to the topic of living harmoniously. If you move to another country you have to be able to accept and regard their culture and norms. There is a saying in burmese “Guest must not insult the host”. The historical facts pointed out that there had been many occasions where these “rohingyas” committed Genocides, Targeted Rapes and Religious insults and attacks against Rakkines. And I myself surprisingly found some websites purely dedicated to such things. These are an act of terrorism.
Its quite to the contrary to what many of foreign journalists trying to make the whole situation look like. There’s never been a Single genocide or Targeted Rape against “Rohingyas”, that’s the fact! They’ve been frowned upon? Yes! Religious Insults? Some responded it, only when they provoked or attack on Buddhism.
Those illegal immigrants were deported just like every other country in the world. You can’t single handedly blame Myanmar for this, even Muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia cannot accept them as refugees anymore. We’ve done enough taking them in as refugees. We have our own issues.
I’m sure there are many good “rohingyas” but the whole “Pro-Rohingya Campaign” smells fishy and I’m against it. And as a democratic nation, WE Myanmar nationals have the right to decide whether they have to right to become native race or not. After all the very foundation of the democracy is majority rules!

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7 plan B // Nov 4, 2011 at 5:41 pm

This is the perfect example, of white people knowingly play the race card, by proxy (think Crusoe).

Thus driving the “RHETORIC” out of hand.

KALAR; A term generally referred to persons of Indian/Dravidian descent in Myanmar. There are sub divisions among the kalar people.
Those who ID themselves as per religion, believes, languages or ethnic origins. Very few that does not fall under this descriptions. Sikh is one of the group. Anyone with a Dravidian feature and dark skin is usually called a ‘kalar’. This apply even to pure blooded Bamar or any other ethnic sons and to a certain extend daughters who share the dark skin and Dravidian feature. They are usually referred endearingly as kalar ley ( little kalar) or kalamart Ley (Female gender).

Anyone with any correct motivation can easily find out these basic facts.

The kalar people in Yakhine state get the shortest ends of the the sanctions/deprivation, 2º to the nature:

“the most different minority get the worst deal”.

This period transpired among the kalar in other states such as Shan and Maulamyein etc as well.

The difference being the kalar in Yakhine are already marginalized by their poverty related disadvantages as well as practices and other differences among the other Yakhines.

The resulting persecutions of, kalar and others fighting over scraps, by the SPDC is used as another example of SPDC atrociousness.

There are numerous articles available for those who really care. Especially by the HR entities in the west who care to know nothing of Myanmar history. Some in post #4.

Knowing the useless careless sanctions as the cause, only by making the kalar as ‘the very original inhabitants’ as ‘the majority Yakhine Lu Myo’ can this persecution be used against SPDC as legitimate anti ethnic minority.

The struggles among the kalar and the rest of Yakhne as among any ethnic groups, as in present ongoing war has always been over economic issue.

Only after the west insisted and injected race as an issue on kalar in Yakhine as Rohingyas, a legitimate ethnic group, does this present faux nationalism induced animosity become an issue.

Therefore making all these vile, genocidal posts in this article an issue nonplus other than “absolutely out of context and irrelevant”.

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8 Shah Arakni // Nov 4, 2011 at 6:07 pm

I’m sure racists and bigots have no logical brain and that’s why they can be racists. Here are some facts for all the bigots:

1) U Nu’s government, the only democratically elected government that ran the country after the independent, recognized us as “Rohingya” and “ethnic of Arakan” and “citizens” of Burma.

2) Burmese encyclopedia or “Myanmar Swezon-kyann” was NOT written by any Kallar or Taliban or any of your fantasized enemy–it was written by Burmese historian and approved by the Burmese government. Go and read page 90 of Volume 9 and educate yourself about Rohingya.

3) Go and read the textbook “Geography for Std. 9th and 10th, printed in 1978, printed press 361 Pyay Rd. Sarbay Viman, on page 86 map Mayu area was clearly marked as “Rohingya’s dwelling place”. It was printed in Ne Win’s era.

4) Arakanese DOES NOT mean Rakhaing nor Buddhists. Arakanese simply means all the peoples of Arakan regardless of race or religion. That includes Rakhaing (Mogh), Rohingya, Chakma (Daing-nak), Mro, etc. There are Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Animists, and Atheists in Arakan.

5) Arakan was colonized and destroyed by the Burmese king Bo Dow Maung Wane–NOT by Muslims. In fact Muslims helped reinstalled the dethrone king Naramik Hla.

6) Rakhaing Phra was forcefully taken away by the Burman king….Muslim should not be blame for it.

You are a bunch of bigots and ignorant, and government backed thugs. Go and learn the real facts before barking nonsense.

Hot debate. What do you think? Quality comment or not? 39 31
9 Rahmat // Nov 4, 2011 at 6:13 pm

Rohingya faced genocide before independence of Burma Union in 1942 around 100, 000 Rohingyas killed and it is recorded in History Books .

The First Democratic Government in Burma under leadership of U Nu recognized Rohingya as Burma’s Citizen.

Rohingya Citizenship Rights denied only since the Year 1982 by General and war Criminaland well know Burmese dictatorship General Ne Win .

General Ne Win Killed and raped Many Chinese Race in Rangoon . Even today Chinese people’s Graved have been Confiscated by Myanmar Govenment and turned to housing and shopping complex , some hypocrite may intend they don’t know about this as well. Lots of Indian race Business looted and killed in Burma During Facsits rule .

Some of the major armed operations conducted against the Rohingyas thatresulted in their expulsion and massive destruction of their homes and settlements:1.

Military Operation (5
th
Burma Regiment) November 1948.2.

Burma Territorial Force (BTF) Operation 1948 -503.

Military Operation (2
nd
Emergency Chin Regiment) March 19524.

May Yu Operation, October 1952-535.

Mone Thone Operation October 19546.

Combined Immigration and Army Operation January 19557.

Union Military Police (UMP) Operation 1955-598.

Captain Htin Kyaw Operation, 19599.

Shwe Kyi Operation, October, 196610.

Kyi Gan Operation, October-December 198611.

Ngazinka Operation 1967-196912.

Myat Mon Operation, February 1969-7113.

Major Aung Than Operation, 197314.

Sabe Operation, February 1974-7815.

Naga Min (King Dragon) Operation, February 1978-7916.

Shwe Hin Tha Operation, August 1978-8017.

Galon Operation, July 1979 to 1991-9218.

Pyi Thaya Operation, July 1991-9219.

Ongoing Na-Sa-Ka Operation from 1992

Quality comment or not? 25 19
10 Min // Nov 4, 2011 at 7:34 pm

See below, Bangladeshi illegal immigrants are in Assam, and
West Bengal and they have been moving into Burma in tens
or hundreds of thousands every year. See below about them
moving into India.

Illegal Bangla immigrants can now become citizens’
Ashok Pradhan,
‘Bangladeshi settlers can pass off as bonafide residents as the census officials will rely solely on replies of the persons concerned for their places of birth without verifying the truth. A TOI report’
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-02-06/bhubaneswar/28355786_1_census-officials-census-operations-bangladeshi-nationals

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11 Tun // Nov 4, 2011 at 9:31 pm

Without trying to know the in-depth condition of Myanmar political condition and its ethnicity, this author shouldn’t rush to conclude MyR ppl as savage who are so blindly-racists. The whole article is heavily one-sided. There are many logically argued articles on facebook why those Rohinga are rejected. Why don’t you quote such arguments? And why do you turn blind eye to the sufferings of native Arakhan ppl, only focusing on those bangali’s side?

Plz at least read Bertil Lintner’s the Bangladesh: Breeding ground for Muslim terror before writing on this issue.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DI21Df06.html

We’d like to read the independent reports, not one sided one.

Thank you.

Tun

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12 Mandalaythar // Nov 5, 2011 at 1:33 am

All I can say about this issue is that these bigots and racists are nothing but brain washed hypocrites.

I am 100% sure that these are the same people also claim to be so patriotic, so anti regime, willing to die for “democracy” in Burma.

Yet, with their low morals, small mindedness and perhaps low education, they have allowed to be brain washed by the very people they hold responsible for the downfall of the country.

I no longer live in our great motherland of Myanmar and this has allowed me to open up my mind and see things from the outside objectively rather than being fed with propaganda after another.

It was heart warming to witness Myanmars in and around the world unite as one in 2007 during the “Saffron Revolution” against our common enemy.

Ironically, in late 2008 and 2009, many united once again when the “Rohingya issue” first gained world attention, condemning them, labeling them with racist terms, questioning their right to citizenship, etc, sounding just like the very people they tried so hard to overthrow just a year or so ago. Against fellow victims of junta’s oppression, against country men (whether you accept it or not).

If we hold on to all these immature sentiments and false sense of superiority and right over other ethnic groups, I can only wait in apprehension for the day when our country becomes truly democratic when everyone will be fighting for their own selfish rights instead of working towards a greater good.

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13 plan B // Nov 5, 2011 at 4:07 am

Shah Arakni #8

Citizenship legitimized dwelling in a country.

A population of same ethnicity of citizens who live in an area for a period of time demonstrate the viability of that group.

The kalar people in Myanmar enjoy such equal privilege as all other citizens Chinese, Anglos or otherwise.

Ne Win persecution of none Burmese especially the Chinese and the Kalar is historical and usually for “the expediency of absolute control”. Did the world make any fuss during those atrocity against various ethnic groups?

The periodic conflict, among the different ethnic group within Myanmar historically, have been during economic hard times.

The expulsion of the Kalar in Yakhine state follow such period.

What the SPDC chose to do is 2º to:

1) Respond to the fear of “post 9/11 American Paranoia” , who see expulsion of Rohingyas, the Kalar in Yakhine state, mostly Muslim, as proof of not being pro-Islamism. During that short period the American fleet were off the coast as well as extremely anti Muslim within the USA.
Thus this expulsion proof Myanmar ‘as not a ground for Al Queda’ especially the call for armed intervention against SPDC were so loud with the like of R2P.

2) Injecting nationalism ( faux) thus claiming, or rather presenting the majority of Yakhine i.e. none Muslim Citizens as protector of it cultures, faith etc. Another proof of SPDC knavery.

3) Overkill, sabre rattling approach to Bengal of potential consequences of violating Myanmar territorial integrity during those period of uncertainty within Myanmar.

Like any race Myanmar has its share of genocidal, ethnic cleansing events in it history that is almost unlikely to repeat itself presently.

The issue of Rhohigyas vs other Yakhine citizens has clearly been brought on by the evils of sanction/deprivations.

This schism among the citizenry is use by both the SPDC as well as anti SPDC west to its own twisted advantages, clearly documented here at New Mandala.

Let us not succumb to the most bestial form of responding, calling each other racists without looking at the whole picture.

A picture painted by the useless careless approach of the west, the true racist, to be ‘against the welfare of all Myanmar citizenry’, including the Kalar in Yakhine, the Rohingyas and the subsequent SPDC knavery to counter the consequences of the west’s reasons to intervene.

The excerpts in this articles are not reflective of the true nature of Myanmar Citizenry. But common shameful, vile snipes usually available in this era.

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14 Tint // Nov 5, 2011 at 4:36 am

Thinking of author’s intention. We never hate them as they are human beings but there are many reasons for denying their citizenship. We demand BBC for apology as they published wrong info and map. It doesn’t mean we are following military junta’s slogans against foreign media. We are not racist as author mentioned above and we never support genocide activities against those people as well. But this is our position to protect our land and Rakhine brothers from illegal migrants . Likewise, we never mislead China’s activities in Myanmar. This doesn’t mean we are against native chinese inside Myanmar. We believe we have rights to protect the State and our people.

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15 Rahmat // Nov 5, 2011 at 7:08 am

Why Rakhines live in Bangladesh part of Arakan ? Are they different people from Rakhines of Myanmar ?

A lot of Rakhine terror Network were arrested by Bangladesh Army also Burma was scared to death when they hear Rakhine Exteremist from Hill track were going to Burma secretly to join their Buddihist Monk Revolution in 2007 or 2008

Is this true or not?

Maug or Rahine are living In Bangladesh’s part of Arakan and Burma’s part of Arakan .

So how we can justify this ? Are those Rahines illegaly entered Bangladesh as well? or what ??

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16 Min // Nov 5, 2011 at 2:47 pm

Not only Burma, but India also struggling with ‘continued
illegal immigration of Bangladeshi nationals into India’.

INDO-BANGLADESH STANDOFF
by B. Raman
‘Since the last week of January, 2003, tension has been building up
on the Indo-Bangladesh border over the question of continued illegal immigration of Bangladeshi nationals into India. The attempt of India’s Border Security Force (BSF) to push back into Bangladesh a recent group of 213 illegal migrants has been resisted by the Bangladeshi security forces resulting in a confrontational situation. Instead of appreciating the need for effective action against illegal immigrants, the so-called secular parties, with the Marxists in the lead, have criticised the action of the BSF. As in the past, the action of the Central Government has been projected as anti-Muslim. ….’

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers6%5Cpaper597.html

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17 Rahmat // Nov 6, 2011 at 1:46 am

The term Rohingya is dangerous for Burma and Arakan state only if they ask seperate state but when they are committed to live together in accordance with constitution and law of the country , they are also victimised and discriminated .

I think we Rohingya can not do more than this at the same time we are still trying to develop our long time backward community and striving in emerging Rohingya to live a modren life just like other races of Myanmar

Quality comment or not? 14 4
18 Shah Arkani // Nov 6, 2011 at 4:19 am

I thought I won’t have to write again to those bigoted racists, brain-washed thugs of military junta.

1) Can’t you, fool, figure that the entire country has been suffering for half a century because of the dictator (Ne Win and his cronies)? Rohingya has brought a lot of prosperity….not the destruction to Burma in anyway shape or form.

2) You’re made country-less, and your sisters and mothers sell their bodies in foreign land is also caused by the dictator–NOT by Rohingya.

3) Arakanese land has been looted and forcefully taken away by the Burmen, the junta, your beloved dady. Not the Rohingya. Rohingya are made foreigners in their own land and taken away everything they hold dear.

4) Rohingya has been in Arakan for 13 HUNDREDS years and co-existed peacefully. They never made Arakan as an “Islamic country”, and they will never do. If they did, Arakan has been an Islamic country long, long time ago.

5) Bengalis have been coming into Arakan, yes, many of them…they all come under junta’s special plan. All of those Benglis are Mogh-Buddhists. Get the facts before you bark non-sense.

6) You bigots are illiterate, arrogant, and ignorant. Read the REAL history to get the facts. Rohingya history is NOT a made up story. It is real. Again, fyi, read Burmese encyclopedia vol 9, page 90; Geography text book of Std. 9th and 10th printed in 1978, page 86. There are a lot of other documents in Burmese history–these are just two of them.

7) And think about it. Use your reading and analytical skill (I don’t know if you have any though).

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19 Min // Nov 6, 2011 at 1:54 pm

If you want to claim you are Burmese, you have to be able to speak
Burmese. This Rohingya issue is not about race nor religion, this is about a race of immigrants rewriting the history claiming natives as
alien race. That made Burmese upset.

Another issue Burmese cannot accept is because this inflated number
of 5 or 6 millions of new immigrants, some of them are not genuine
sons or daughters of immigrants from Chittagong, they cannot even
speak Burmese and they are claiming as Burmese. Try another day!

Chittagonians have been flooding into Burma, although Burma is
not a rich country but it is the land bridge between Bangladesh
(1 more metre of sea level will drown that nation) and the rich nations such as Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore. If Arakanese
were not there they would have been at gates of Kuala Lumpur
via the southern Thailand towns such as Hadyi, Yalar, etc..

Loving democracy, being a democrat does not mean suckering everyone nor opening one’s front doors so that everyone come
in for free beer and free bbq. Democracy is a governing system,
to decide whom will hold executive power and how to balance
the executives with other elected legislative power holders such
as congress men and women nor appointed ones such as judges.
Democracy is for citizens. We have no problem with Chittagonians
from Bangladesh if they are good neighbours- good fences made good neighbours. No country accepts immigrants unchecked
unless they are under colonial yoke like we were forced to accept them without consulting us. Do not mix this issue with race nor religion. This BBC flaunder or fabrication has to be exposed and corrected. Those Chittagonians are rewriting history.

Quality comment or not? 14 7
20 Ernest // Nov 6, 2011 at 7:50 pm

It’s always a little surprising to Western “New Age” Buddhists how close to the “need to ethnically cleanse” and “religiously intolerant” mindset some of the “real” Buddhists and the cliques that rule so-called “Buddhists” countries can be.

For instance in Bhutan where 10% or more of the entire population who were ethnically Nepalese were forcibly expelled without passports or papers, their property and worldly goods entirely expropriated by the “gentle” Bhutanese Buddhists to increase their “Happiness Index”, despite having the ethnic Nepalese having been born and raised in Bhutan for 100′s of years.

Or many of the “Buddhists” who run and inhabit Sri Lanka and their views and actions towards their fellow residents of the sun-drenched island who are ethnically Tamil and Hindu.

I wonder what Buddha would make of this aspect of his legacy? Probably just an “illusion”…….

Quality comment or not? 9 9
21 Khine Nein Lunn // Nov 6, 2011 at 8:35 pm

In Alethangyaw Conference (1946) they called themselves Arakani Muslims, calling for partition of Arakan. Before that they sent a mission to Karachi to ask Ali Jinnah to incorporate Buthidaung and Maungdaw townships in East Pakistan (present day Bangladesh). Why? The share the same language, culture and religion of the Bangladeshis from Chittagong District. Why the term”Arakani Muslim?” Because they had not invented the false ethnic identity, “Rohingya.” How it is racial to call a Bengali as Bengali? They rose in rebellion when Burma gained independence. The Arakanese (Rakhine) villages were razed. Rakhine women were raped. The monasteries were burnt down too. Buddhists and Rakhine villagers were killed. Rakhine Village Community was totally destroyed. Is it true or not? There are daily newspapers, published in Rangoon and Calcutta in the libraries. Who are racists?

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22 Myo // Nov 6, 2011 at 8:48 pm

It is nothing to do with religious faith nor even immigration or
illegal immigration. This is more to do with fabricating history
and rewriting it. Will a British accept if someone says, Chinese
arrive to London earlier than Romans nor Asians (Pakistanis
and Bangladeshis) arrived Brighton or Birmingham earlier than
Anglo Saxxons? Will Frenchman accept Algerians arrived earlier
to France than Franks? If Turks trying to rewrite Germany history
saying that young Turks did not roam out from central Asia and
later set up sultanate states and purge Constinople converting it
into Istanbul, instead they arrived there with ship wrecks earlier
ahead of Germans. Will you accept it? Then why the heck Burmese
should accept this bull shits nor accepting millions of unskilled,
illiterate folks some of whom have received terrorist trainings.
And they cannot speak Burmese. Will any of your countries
accept it. Cut the crap!

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23 Moe Aung // Nov 6, 2011 at 8:51 pm

Ernest typically confuses religious intolerance with a natural reaction to religious and /or territorial aggression.

How about the example of Northern Ireland, Christians all the same but conventionally deemed sectarian violence, a typical red herring ? It’s ever so easy to seize the moral high ground when you are rather ignorant of the circumstances on the ground.

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24 win // Nov 6, 2011 at 10:06 pm

I wish I could stay away from this senseless mess but I couldn’t since this mess do not hold either moral or legal ground. Furthermore, I rather feel ashame than proud of those who claiming to be patriots of Burma for their both inconsistencies and illogical arguments.

For the first part, I do not have much trouble with the show of anger in this case by Rakhine ethnic people since they are directly involving in a bitter argument on the ground. However, many Burmese are saying excessive things including “we will not give an inch of Rakhine land” and this is where moral hazard started. Currently, Rakhine people do not have the rights to study and practice their own culture on their own land and most Burmese do not have problem with that. Logically, this imply that Rakhine is a colony like land for Burmese since Burmese won’t give an inch of this land to others while oppressing the people of that land.

Second, BBC has already stated above their (so called) controversial map that “some of the minority groups in Burma” and it does not even use the word like “ethnic minority” which many people are claiming now. What can we ask more from BBC? BBC is not my favorite news agency but it has performed their duty by informing unreachable news for the people of Burma in the last decades. Turning against them for just one presumed mistake that taking out of context doesn’t look justified for me. In addition, I could brought up endless list of other illogical claims but I’ll cut short from annoying other readers.

Does anyone think this mess will stop here? Or is there any expectation that we, other ethnic minorities of Burmese, are the next target/scapegoat of Burmese nationalism?

My assertion my cause some vehement arguments from so call patriotic Burmese which is natural but they might need to bear in mind that I’m just an ordinary ethnic Karen folk who happen to be married to a Burmese woman.

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25 ACA // Nov 6, 2011 at 11:28 pm

Copying and pasting what a scholar frustratingly wrote
after the history fabricators accusations to him as a racist
for stating truth.

‘(1) Do you want the list of [all] ethnic groups of Burma in
[her British] colonial days? I have “The Ethnography of
Burma,” Government Publishing House, 1900. [There is
no "Rohingya"]
(2) How is about Burma Gazetteers (Akyab, Kyaukpyu and Sandoway District[s])? [There is no mention of "Rohingya"]
(3) Do you want District Settlement Reports of Arakan
Division since 1871 to 1931? [Again, no mention of "Rohingya"]
(4) Can you show me any Rohingya population in the census
reports or any administrative records of the whole colonial
days? [FYI] I have all of them.

If you can show me the name “Rohinhya” appearing any record,
I will worship all of you [by] touching my forehead with your feet. And I will apologize for what I have written. If you cannot show
what whould you do? Let me know.

Don’t be tricky, guys. I know you are trying to catch me in a trap.’

So now you know who is bluffing.

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26 Moe Aung // Nov 7, 2011 at 12:03 am

Rahmat #15

If you know history, you will know that Cox’s Bazar (old name Panwa meaning yellow flower in Burmese) in Chittagong used to be a Rakhine majority town from the reign of Arakanese kings in the region until British times.

You know the Buddhist Chakma of the Chittagong Hill Tracts are not Indo-Aryan but Mongoloid like the Ahom in Assam. The Buddhist Marma in the CHT are descended from Burmese captives taken to the Arakan by King Rajagree after his conquest of Pegu in the 16th C. Another wave of Rakhine immigration to Chittagong occurred in 1784 when the Burmese king Bodawpaya invaded the Arakan.

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27 plan B // Nov 7, 2011 at 3:50 am

Congratulates New Mandala

Neglecting the most important fact that Bamar, Kalar and over 100 ethnic groups constitute citizenry of Myanmar.

ALL Myanmar citizenry are suffering under the yoke of military brutality as well as west useless careless responses and measure. This article is here proof.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/11/03/bbc-under-fire-on-rohingyas/

Without commenting on the author Sai Latt’s intent, this article has exposed the plight of Kalar in Myanmar, specifically the Rohingyas in Yakhine state at the same time reveal many here @ New Mandala and Yakhine that are misguided by faux nationalism, racist tendency and bigotry.

Even though this article does not encourage racism, it does expose who to look out for in the future especially the benefit to the whole citizenry is concern. BBC is not one such institution.

An article posted a few years back (2009) concerning Tamadaw (4 cuts strategy) atrocious method of gaining upper hand against Karen resistance, New Mandala managed to exposed the true color of most white posters, with mercenary tendency, that equate:

killing Bamar= helping the Karen,

albeit neglecting the obvious fact that both groups are brothers.

Instead of realizing and identifying the root causes of this specific conflict:
1) Deprivation and
2) Subsequent actions by the SPDC, and west inappropriate responses.
in order to justify both parties respective ongoing actions.

Neither causes take the whole citizenry well being of Myanmar into consideration.

History has prove again and again conflicts among different ethnic groups within a peaceful community will arise during ‘periods of hardships’ with the smallest and most weak, most vulnerable groups usually being made the scapegoat, to suffer the most.

Deprivation due to:

1)Nature/weather
2) lack of education
3)lack of economic opportunity and
4)lack of heath care
over decades surely qualify as ‘periods of hardships’.

The first can not be controlled, however the latter 3 factors are made worst by the west useless careless policy of relentless sanctions and vilification of present regime. Purely human induced.

Myanmar citizenry consist of many races in which Kalar in Yahkine state known as the Rohingyas, is but one group.

Schism, obviously encourage by SPDC as well as the west, here the BBC, to continue the status quo of last 3 decades.

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28 Min Shwe // Nov 7, 2011 at 6:12 am

Rahmat #15,

I think you are answering your own question. Rakhine in Bangladesh (once around 1 million or more, now dwindled to less than 50,000) and Rakhine in Rakhine State are the same people. All are proud to be called Rakhine Tha/Thama.

The same situation applies to the “Rohingyas.” Those in Bangladesh and those in Rakhine (minus the Kaman) are the same Bengalis – for that matter mostly from Chittagong/Cox’s Bazar. FYI, the small communities of Bengali Hindus in Maungdaw and Sittwe don’t seem to have any problems with being termed as Bengalis, and they are proud of it.

Also, if you go to Bangladesh’s Nakyangchari District that borders with Myanmar you will see barbed wire fence erected by Myanmar to hold off illegal Bengalis from entering. Over the years there has been a lot of encroachment of Bengalis from Chittagong/Cox’s bazar districts area to simply go over the border where land is plentiful and fertile. So, these Bengalis in Myanmar side are now suddenly Rohingyas, whereas their relatives left in Bangladesh are still Bengalis. Go figure!
Rahmat, your comments don’t hold water.

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29 mong pru // Nov 7, 2011 at 11:12 am

The Rohingyas call the Rakhine indigenous people as Maghs (please see all Rohingya publlications and socalled histories written by such dubious historians as Dr Yunus [not a history doctor, but a physician]. This alone proves that they are none other than Bengalis. Bengalis as interpreters helped the British colonialists believe that these people are Maghs. Even many place names of Rakhine state have been Bengalized with the arrival of the British colonialists. The British brought in hundreds of thousands of Bengali labourers from Bangladesh. Now if these same british colonialists say and support the fake history of the Socalled Rohingyas … there will be more gross manipulation of fact. The Burmese citizenship law demands a citizen of Burma whose ancestors could be traced to pre-British colonialists intrusion into Burma. Is this unfair? If this is unfair why does not the British colonialists demand Saudi arabia to recognize anyone who comes into Saudi Arabia to be Saudi nationals in five years’ time?

There were some Bengalis even in pre-British Arakan. Remember they were Bengalis, and not Rohingya. The name Rohingya is a Bengali word for Rakhine or Arakanese. Why these fake rohingyas have hijacked the name? To establish a Muslim Bangla in Arakan soil? And what role are the western colonialists playing to create this fake identity and incursion into the history of Burma?

It is time the world conscience to ponder over the matter.

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30 Min Shwe // Nov 7, 2011 at 11:40 am

Shah Arkani #8, 18

Get your facts straight.
“5) Bengalis have been coming into Arakan, yes, many of them…they all come under junta’s special plan. All of those Benglis are Mogh-Buddhists. Get the facts before you bark non-sense.”
So, now in your analytical fortitude Benglis (get your spelling correct) are of Tibeto Burman lineage!
Aren’t you barking nonsense? Bengalis in Maungdaw, Nakhura, Boli Bazar, Taungbro on the Rakhine side of Naff River have been living since 13th century? Oh, my mistake, they are Rohingyas! Spare me my “Lord” Arkani.
Are you just so ashamed to be Bengali? They’ve had Nobel Prize winners, great poets, famed historic figures, and contributed the global society.

Quality comment or not? 9 4
31 Zaw // Nov 7, 2011 at 12:42 pm

Good fences make good neighours.

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32 Peter // Nov 7, 2011 at 1:03 pm

What are all these endless and unpleasant fantasies about ethnic/religious/cultural “purity” in the geographical space known as modern Burma?!

There is NO ethnic/religious/cultural “purity” in modern Burma…NONE. No “mono-culture”, no “genetic race”, no “one belief system”, no “one god”, no “one anything”. In fact, quite the opposite, endless and infinite “diversity”. Which could be a tremendous asset if “embraced”.

It seems the only thing most “Burmese” have in common other than “diversity” is a very high level of intolerance, racism, and negative feelings about their fellow humans living in the geographic space they all share by various accidents of history, empires, wars and serendipity.

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33 Sia // Nov 7, 2011 at 4:32 pm

The problem with the campaigners is that they don’t know that BBC will never apologize. Why should they? They didn’t do anything wrong. They didn’t even claim that the pic represents ethnic groups in Myanmar in the first place. If they did, Burmese should protest notable absence of Bamar (the dominant race) rather than the absence of Rakhine. BBC added Rohingya simply because they reside in Burma, not because of they are one of the ethnic groups of Burma.
The campaign against BBC is morally wrong. BBC spent over three millions of dollar annually to broadcast its Burmese language programs. No doubt that they haven’t made any profit (expect its online version). Most Burmese, including myself, heavily relied on BBC as the sole escape route from government propaganda during the years of censorship. I am surprised that they turn against BBC just because of “misunderstanding” from their part.

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34 Rahmat // Nov 7, 2011 at 5:24 pm

First of all I would like to salute Anna Jones once again and I would remember her all of my life as Rohingya Princess who have done nothing wrong and those Insult to her by those evil tribes are nothing just a proof haterd in them for other human being .

I am a Rohingya and as such I have all rights to defend Rohingya Interest in Arakan and Burma , We still have around 800 ooo Rohingyas in Arakan these days , whose status are unknown and how they are living there in Arakan -Burma you can imagine yourself by reading from those educated narrow minded and racists people in Burma . Now you can imagine much harted and discrimination the small Rohingya ethnic facing in Myanmar .

Since the issue here also related to Rohingyas , I would like you to see how these anti Rohingya people jumping from one point to another just hide the truth and injustice done to Rohinyas.

Now let us see what they said about Rohingyas

1. They said Rohingyas are illegal immigrants from Bangladesh .

I tell you Rohingyas are there even before independence of Burma and later Bangladesh that means Rohingya are citizen of Burma and not like a temporary illigal immigrant from current Bangladesh .

2. They said Rohingyas do not deserve Burmese Citizenship as they can not speak Burmese.

Rohingyas have Citizenship of Burma Union since Independence a few of them even served as Burmese Millitary and my own father was a government school teacher at Moung Daw , Arakan – Burma .

Rohingya Citizenship denied only since 1982 by Ne Win illegal dictatorship government.

So why after all these days people here inventing theories that those who do not speak Burmese can not be a Burmese at the same time they discriminate and do not let them to travel from one town to another without a visa or a permit even just for study purpose.

Again not all Ethnic races of Myanmar speak Burmese and they have their own culture and religion such as Hindu, Christain , Muslims and others .

Ethinic People living with Thai Borders also speak similar Thais, should Burmese People also blame them for not speak Burmese or this is only apply to Rohingya only ?

Eventhogh Rohingyas are not considered as Burmese Citizens yet they have participated in all election and recently one Rohingya MP is in jail in Burma , he is also considered as Political prisoner , his name is U Kyu Min .

Rakhine terms were unknown even during British Rule they have invented this term recently and they have been Known as Magh even by British and European historian . They changed the word Magh because they have been well known terrorist who used to target British soldier and loot from them and they have been branded as Magh looters since then that is why they changed to Rakhine and I have no peoblem for that.

One of the writer here claimed that there were one million Maghs in Bangladesh and know only 500 000 living there and I ask you where are they know ? Have they traveled to Europe or they just enterd Burma Union illegaly and now claim Myanmar Citizen serving as police and Boarder gaurd and loot from poor Rohingyas ?

How such irrispensible incident happen ? is it acceptable by other races of Myanmar and specialy to those Burmese race who always invent Racists Therories here? It is acceptable to them because at a time they expel Rohingyas they are bringing Maghs Buddhist just to change the demoghraphy of Arakan and to show the world there are no Rohingyas in Burma.

I will Come back soon to write more

Best wishes

Rahmat

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35 Zaw // Nov 7, 2011 at 5:43 pm

@Peter
No one says here about purity, it is you who is trying to mislead others. Try another time, another place. That
child’s tricks do not work here.

@Sia
BBC is not a saint, 3M is a cheap amount to influence 55 Millions people. Are you a baby who was born yesterday or are you that clueless?

What BBC did is wrong. Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are majority in some small satellite towns of cities in UK but do you see them representing as a race? But we do only see Scotland, Wales, England and Ireland. This is as if Bangladeshi British are saying we arrived Birmingham earlier than Vikings (cousins of Saxons of Anglo-Saxons) nor even earlier than Romans or even earlier than Briton natives. This is what it is now and using Rohingya as a word is insulting for Burmese as there is no such word as Rohingya in Burmese language till
some of those history rewriters fabricated a history that a
dozen of Arabs arrived to Burmese shores after ship wreck
3000 years ago (that rage my blood pressure). Our suckerer politicians like late prime minister U Nu gave in for their vote banks as in those days one did not need proof of citizenship
to vote and so local politicians grouped their fellow illegal immigrants in villages in their electrates. What will be bad
is that journalists will start referring BBC page as a reliable reference. That is why it is important that BBC must amend
their mistake. Burmese do not need BBC. They can use that
3 Millions pounds as toilet papers.

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36 Muhhamad // Nov 7, 2011 at 8:26 pm

I am a Muslim living in Rathaedaung, Arakan since I was born. My parents have always lived here. I have no idea why other Muslims especially those in foreign countries are claiming themselves as Rohingya. This create more hatred between Arakanese and Muslims. As they try to legitimize the name, the government suppress us more. We are victimized between the Rohingya-creating people and Burmese government.
My family has lived within Arakanese community, and we have never had any problems with them.

Sometimes I do expect that I will have better freedom of travel. If all Muslims agree to cease creating the name Rohingya and live together under law, we will definitely be granted citizenship with wider freedom.

Brother Muslims, I really wish you to stop fighting for a name risking freedoms of Muslims in Arakan, and instead take part in making the Mulism lives better.

Quality comment or not? 15 3
37 Zon // Nov 7, 2011 at 11:02 pm

When I applied Thai visa around late 1990s, at royal
Thai embassy, I met some men who looked like Bengalis
or South Asian stocks who were applying Thai visa with
Burmese passports. The visa staff from the Thai embassy
asked them how is your boss and why need so many visas
but it made me feel weird as those lads cannot speak our
language Burmese. And also around that time I met a boy
buying postage stamps and he was buying stamps with sign
language. Anyone grew up in downtown Rangoon know
that all “chewing beetle” and small grocery store keepers
came from Bangladesh. Or those who sell Kima Prata or
BBQ came from Bangladeshi. We ignore them as we think
it is ok as long as they just dont screw us, we dont do any.
And a friend who live in the other side of Rangoon, called
Dala or Ton Tay even told me that he met a Bangladeshi
student who can played guitar very well. So that was it.
We, Burmese, know more affluent Bangladeshis are trying
to go to Malaysia via Burma as we are land bridge between
Bangladeshi and Thailand. And we know poor Bangladeshis
are paying 10 kyats (50 cents) for each head to Burmese
immigration officers and staff who are assigned in Arakan.
We did not care as Burmese are tolerant folks and we don’t
care much. But now those guys, illegal immigrants went too
far, they are not only sneaking into my country but trying
to snatch it from my people. That made me upset and alert.
If any of those aliens or useful idiots working for them think
we are racists then go and buy a mirror and see yourselves.
We have been taking it too long without complaining and it
is our right to defend our land as any Brit or Frenchman or
German or Japanese will do so. Coming in and making a living
is fine, marrying our women is fine as long as they do not rape
or force convert our women, we do not care. But now we are
pushed too far. It is time to show middle finger to BBC, UK.
Those cunning, manipulative Brits are alike high class whores,
to sell billions of arms to their valued clients like Saudi Arabia
they tried to appease them at our expense. Shame on you BBC.

Quality comment or not? 9 7
38 Moe Aung // Nov 7, 2011 at 11:58 pm

Muhhamad,

Hear, hear!

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39 mong pru // Nov 8, 2011 at 2:31 am

Sia

Can BBC add rohingya as burmese ethnic? If so,on what ground? Can BBC call BROUK as british rohingya organization UK?

Anna (or Ano) Jones got her price already – a rohingya calls her as rohingya princess – transforming her into rohingyas’ bedfellow!

Thanks

Quality comment or not? 7 7
40 mong pru // Nov 8, 2011 at 10:09 am

Rahmat

Muhammad is right. rohingya is a political word used as a tool to twist the history and demography of Rakhine State. This is unacceptable except for those people who are godfathers of rohingyanism in bangladesh and in the wide world.

bengalis have lived in rakhine state and also burma for a long time and peacefully without causing or suffering any kind of discrimination. but the greed for easy arab petrodollar, and also twisting of facts by an islamic country in the neighbourhood, has created and nourished rohingyanism. and sadly enough some of the vested interest groups among the democratic west including bbc have helped grow it to a dimension big enough to cause uproar, race hate, and even future turmoil of any kind.

anti rohingya sentiment is growing … only because of vested colonialist interest is there … fuelled by bbc and some extremist christian associations based in british soil (i even don’t want to name them).

socalled rohingyas should know if they want to live peacefully in burma they must, and i repeat, they must understand know to live peacefully with other people of burma. previously it was ne win’s despotic regime these socalled socalled people blamed. now the entire democratic community in burma has raised voices and concerns against them.

rohingyas are not benefitting from this let alone reaching their hallucinatory goal. by inventing stories the leaders of rohingyanism are building large homes and establishing big business houses. but they are putting their own kind into peril inside burma.

i’ve also seen a lot of bangladeshi muslim bengalis in the west who are using the name of rohingya and getting political asylum int he west. the west, if it does not get up from stupor now, is going to wake up to the harsh reality in no time.

as democracy loving and nonracist and nonreligious bigots, the citizens of burma have always extended their freindly hands to all people from the world. but it does not mean these good natured people will tolerate the invention of fictitious names for creating a racist islamist enclave anywhere inside burma, let alone rakhine state.

thanks

Quality comment or not? 11 5
41 Min Shwe // Nov 8, 2011 at 1:14 pm

Rahmat #34,
The predominant migration of Rakhines from Chittagong division happened before and after Myanmar became independent. This was no different than the Mohajirs moving to Pakistan from India and the Hindus from Pakistan to India. Panwa (current Ramu) lost the majority of its Rakhine population, leaving behind glorious temples – thankfully the Maramagri’s (Barua Buddhists) are taking good care of it. Chittagong itself is a Rakhine word, name established when the Rakhine kingdom expanded to the banks of Karnaphuli River. So, we had large Rakhine communities in British India in the areas which are now Chittagong/Cox’s Bazar.
You mention the term Rakhine not used during the British Period because they used the term Arakanese for us (and Mohamedans for the Muslims, did not see the term Rohingya, see Sittwe Gazette). I applaud your father’s service as an educator to the society in Maungdaw. But I really wonder if your parent’s generation ever used the term Rohingya.
I understand your logic about your people being in Rakhine prior to the establishment of Bangladesh, which only became independent in 1971. But that does not negate your identity. Bengalis, past and present, are still Bengalis.
I applaud Mr. Muhhamad’s comment. He is there and trying to make ends meet. Your politically and emotionally charged Rohingya banter does not help him.

Quality comment or not? 5 3
42 Michael John // Nov 8, 2011 at 2:31 pm

I am really troubled by the mounting level of anti-Muslim attitudes in Burma. So, it seems clear from reading this post and comments that almost everybody in Burma hates Muslims there, Rohingya or not. And it is so funny to see that Buddhists (I don’t mean Bamar Buddhists only) in Burma are now so courageous and calling for extermination of Muslims in Burma. But what is mot disappointing is that Buddhists in Burma did not have any courage at all when the military was beating and killing their Buddhist monks in 2007. They always worship the monks as one of the five noble persons. But they proved they were cowards when the military beat and killed Buddhist monks! Now they are so brave that they are calling for exterminating Muslims! Very funny cowards Burmese Buddhists are!

Quality comment or not? 7 12
43 Dieter // Nov 8, 2011 at 4:18 pm

I really wonder what Buddha would make of the “Buddhist” countries, their “Buddhist” leaders and their “Buddhist” populations in Year 2554? Is this Buddha’s legacy, what remains of his admirable endeavors? Was there some”fatal flaw” in his teachings that has helped to create these present circumstances?

The Sri Lankan Buddhists just finished with their near genocidal war against the despised Tamils.

The ruling group in a totally impoverished Bhutan recently completing their cleansing from Bhutan of the ethnic Nepalese who for hundreds of comprised over 10% of the Bhutan population.

The Buddhist Generals & “Big Men” of Burma endlessly plundering and raping the wealth and people of Burma (who themselves apparently dream only of themselves one day plundering, raping and “doing in” their fellow citizens/residents, especially those of the “Muslim persuasion”).

The little Buddhist power clique that rules and owns Laos, banking their suitcases full of “tea money” from Beijing in Bangkok and Singapore while 50% of the entire Laos population lives hand-to-mouth with no cash income whatsoever (now there’s the real “Sufficiency Economy” that the Buddhist Royalist in Thailand dream about).

And speaking of the Buddhist Royalists who own and operate the structure known as “Thailand”, apparently they think it is perfectly OK for their carefully nurtured Buddhist Karma to order Army snipers onto Bangkok’s rooftops to shoot 100′s of unarmed Buddhist citizens of Thailand whose only wish was for their votes to be counted instead of constantly thrown out.

Leaving I guess only Cambodia, whose murderous extreme Buddhist leader, Pol Pot, nearly succeeded in putting the entire population (aside from the several million who had to be exterminated for not subordinating their individual self and ego to “Ankor”) into a utopian property-less 100% “Sufficiency Economy”.

Quality comment or not? 8 10
44 Tint // Nov 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm

Michael, John and Dieter and others
You are adviced to study more about history and current situation before you comment it. This is nothing about religion but about illegal migrants alongside the borderline. If you feel pity for them, I don’t mind you may invite them to your land and settle for their dwelling. Our small country cannot bear them.

Quality comment or not? 8 6
45 Min // Nov 8, 2011 at 10:13 pm

@Dieter

Thai royalists, British Monarchists (of Charles II), nor Saudi Sultanists, all suckers are the same shit, they do it for favours,
they suck the king or Sultan or whatever shit they are called.
Do not try to divert the topic. Do not play a girlish games. It
does not work here. It just shows your 9 months old brain.

Pol Pot is a French educated communist. He went to a Lycee
like Ahmed Shah Masud who went to a Lycee in old Afgan,
General Masud, the lion of Afganistan was killed by Talibans.
Pol Pot, being a communist he is an internationalist. That was
why he murdered his own people. Nationalists and Patriots will never do that. BTW, the communism and Islam has common denominators such as Zakat (redistribution of wealth), the zeal
to spread the dogma or faith, and internationalism.

But this issue is nothing to do with religion, race, Here patriots
are condemning BBC for its sneakiness and slyness and sloppy
apologies. I am sick of BBC. All my remaining respects for it is
gone.

Quality comment or not? 6 7
46 Mya // Nov 8, 2011 at 11:08 pm

I forgot to mention that if we allow millions of illegal immigrants
as true blue natives of Arakan, then we are facilitating vote banks
like in India. Demography will be changed in favour of illegal aliens
and Arakan will become alike Kosovo, a present for greater Albania.

Jemaah Islamiyah is Al Qaeda’s subsidy for South East Asia. If we
lose Arakan, the coastal state, Burma will serve as a land bridge for
an Islamic caliphate, that will spread from Indonesia to Bosnia in
Europe.

Indonesia -> Malaysia -> Southern Thailand -> ** Burma ** ->
->Bangladesh -> Kashmir -> Afganistan -> old silk route nations
->Turkey (Constinople, the capital city of western Roman empire
as it was called but today converted to Istanbul by expansionist
and Imperial Turks) to Bosnia.

So the Burma is the missing link for AQ and JI master plan. Burma
seems to be a prized target in Wahabi or Salafi’s global domination plan and BBC is just a high class whore.

Quality comment or not? 9 3
47 Moe Aung // Nov 8, 2011 at 11:19 pm

Dieter,

So Pol Pot is now Buddhist. That’s one gigantic twist you performed in conniving at smearing a religion. Truth is religion can be just a great big red herring as in Northern Ireland. It’s really about territory, control of resources, blood feuds, tit for tat, above all class divisions that transcend race and religion as everywhere else in the world.

Look no further than Obama getting a tremendous amount of flak because he’s a ‘Saudi Islamic plant’ etc. even after he successfully and incredibly overcame the colour bar having made it into the right kind of social/class circles.

Quality comment or not? 7 4
48 Moe Aung // Nov 8, 2011 at 11:25 pm

Michael John,

How would anyone react when you are deemed a heathen and ought to be either converted or culled? If turkeys vote for Christmas, pigs might also fly. Remember Newton’s Third Law of Motion? What about “as you sow so shall you reap”?

Quality comment or not? 7 3
49 Shah Arkani // Nov 9, 2011 at 12:48 am

1) Min #19,
Please educate yourself first before commenting on Rohingya issue. Now your arrogant writing makes you bigot and ignorant. There are countless of other minorities: Karen, Mon, Shan, Kachine, Chin, etc who DO NOT speak Burmese. Please study the real history before saying it is ‘fake’.

2) ACA $25,
Dude, do yourself a favor by being honest (to yourself first). It does not matter British colonizer listed us as ‘Rohingya’ or not. There were hundreds of thousands of people who believed in Islamic Faith (true). Britishers might have named them as “Muslims”, “Musalman”, or ‘Muslim of Arakan’ or whatever….that’s the truth.

Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, the term ‘Rohingya’ is a new word invented around the 50′s, so what’s wrong with that? I see in your writing you use “Akyab”, but it’s been changed to “Sittwe”, “Arakan” to “Rakhine”, “Burma” to “Myanmar”, “Rangoon” to “Yangon”…..and “Mug or Mogh” to “Rakhaing”, “Talaing” to “Mon”, etc. You meant to say that everybody but us can change the name?

3) Moe Aung #26,
Here we go: Cox’s Bazar used to be OLD Arakan, but none of the non-Buddhists are Arakanese within that Kingdom?. And all the Buddhists are NOT Indo-Aryan stock, but MONGOLOID!!!..

Bangali Borua (Buddhist), Chakma (still speak the same language as we do but Buddhist), and anyone else for that matter who confesses Buddhism is AUTOMATICALLY Arakanese or Burmese???? While all the non-Buddhist (Hindus and Muslims) lived in the Arakan Kingdom for thousands of years are NOT Arakanese. If this is not religious bigotry then what is?

4)Min Shwe #30,
I”m not ashame of who I am and I’m NOT a Bengali or Chittagonian dude….I”m a ROHINGYA. Look at the history you write on rakapura website where your name is Mug or Mogh…why you call yourself as Rakhine? Are you ashame of yourself?

5) Muhhamad #36
A short advice for you…..don’t convert yourself to alien religion before understanding what it is. Don’t you feel shame to convert to alien religion that you can’t even stand? Pity on you.

6) Zon #37
So, it’s all about skin huh? You might be a chinese dude….all the ethnics including Bama are darker-skinned (most of them). Racist card is ugly. Don’t play it.

7) mong pru #40 (a wrong name to start with)
Your muhhamad is not right. He converted. Don’t u hate him?

Quality comment or not? 5 11
50 Michael John // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:10 am

Moe Aung….

Thanks so much for your reply. But that Muslims are trying to invade Burma and its Buddhism is a myth, in my opinion. How will it happen given that Burma has the purest Buddhism in the world and has the majority Buddhist population? I guess it is just a myth.

And you all are saying it is a whether-the-Rohingya-is-a-national-race-or-not problem, it seems to me that it is a citizenship issue. You guys don’t want to give citizenship status to the Rohingya. That’s deep inside. But you guys are always trying to get citizenship/permanent residence abroad in advanced countries like Singapore, the US, etc when you say that those so-called Rohingya illegal Bengali migrants have no right to stay in your country.

Moreover, I know from reading some works on Burma that there are more Chinese than Indians in Burma but you only single out Indians (mostly Indian Muslims). Isn’t it because those Indians you vehemently hate are Muslims? I have also seen some comments from my friends who have visited Burma that Chinese have converted to Theravada Buddhism. So you take them as your kin. But you would always take Muslims as foreigners. It is crystal clear to me.

Tint….

Yes, I know enough about Burmese history. Whenever Muslim mosques and Christian churches were attacked in Burma, you Buddhists would always say that it is not related to religion. When Buddhist monks destroyed the mosques, you would always say that they are bogus. It seems that you don’t accept that religion always has a role in such identity political problems. If Buddhism vs. Islam is not one of the central reasons in this BBC drama, why haven’t you attacked the illegal Chinese migrants into Shan State?

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51 Moe Aung // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:56 am

Michael John,

Please do not tempt fate over the Chinese question. It’s another tinder box likely to blow any time. Granted it’s easier for the Chinese to be integrated/assimilated. But remember 1967. The last serious anti-Indian riots was before WW2 and confined to Rangoon.

Kindness begets kindness and contempt begets contempt. How do you like being regarded with religious contempt by a certain group of immigrants and their descendants or converts for that matter of whatever creed in your own land? You insult Burmese hospitality and underestimate Burmese nationalism at your peril.

Whilst citizenship and nationality are synonymous, ethnicity can be Indian, Bengali or mixed with Rakhine or Burmese, not Rohingya which some Bengali once explained simply means homeless, applied to both those Rakhine in Bangladesh and the Bengalis in northern Arakan.

Quality comment or not? 2 2
52 mong pru // Nov 9, 2011 at 8:05 am

Should the Rakhines are racists, how come the Kamans and Myedus are still there, enjoying their good citizenship equally like the other indigenous peoples of Burma? Why are there so many Muslim educators, high government officials in the administration in Burma? Why are there those Muslim business people who are doing trade in gems, gold and what not? Is this because the Burmese Buddhists are bigots and race haters? Even many Bengalis in Rakhine state hold citizenship cards. It is only the illegal intruders who are not allowed full citizenship.

For the name Mogh in Rakkhapura, please read the article again, the article was written by two Bengali authors … and translated into English. Clearly Bengali authors should use the word Mogh … should socalled rohingyas are bengalis, they should also use the word Mogh. Abid Bahar, befittingly Bangladeshi bigot, wrote Magh or Mogh … because he is a Bangladeshi Bengali by birth. I can point out thousands of such examples.

Attacks on mosques and churches? Can’t you see Buddhist monasteries are also burnt in Burma? The dictators never spared any target because they are of their religion, race or cast. If you know about churches and mosques being demolished, you must also see thousands of Buddhist monks shot on the streets, and hundreds of Buddhist monasteries destroyed. If not you must be blind of one eye.

Don’t take the good naturedness of the average Burmese who welcomed all the alien Christians and Muslims from abroad and recognized them as citizens of Burma. It is the illegal infiltrators from a neighbouring Islamic country who have sneaked their way, and whose intellectuals even demanded lebensraum for their uncontrollably expanding population in neighbouring countries (and also demanded recently “climate refugees” for their failure to contain their own breeding population) … and the invention of rohingyanism for forcing a fictitious enclave for and full citizenship to illegal migrants of their own creation.

Again I say Muhammad is right. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Rakhine State are right, they are happy to be Kaman, Myedu and Bengalis, and enjoy full citizenship … they don’t want to identify with a fictitious name and dream of a hallucinatory enclave. I salute them all.

Quality comment or not? 6 2
53 Zaw // Nov 9, 2011 at 8:20 am

I forget, some of their guys surely can study medicine in elite medical schools in Yangon, one or two of them have earned a MBBS and also some of their leaders also studied at prestigious Rangoon University.

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54 Moe Aung // Nov 9, 2011 at 8:59 am

Rahmat #34

Just as you insist on calling the Arakanese/Rakhine Maghs, meaning bandit in Bengali/Rohingya, a term your colonial masters might have used (Arakanese is the only term I have come across in British Burma usage, never Magh, definitely no such thing as Rohingya), the Burmese/Rakhine will continue to call you Bengali which is the same as Bangladeshi in the UK, British born/naturalised British subject or no. And you know kala doesn’t mean bandit.

Shah Arkani #49

Putting words in people’s mouth seems to be your specialty. Nobody said Indo-Aryans cannot be Buddhists, or that all Mongoloids are Buddhists, or that the Bengali Borua and Chakma are Arakanese/Burmese, or that Hindus/Muslims in the Arakan cannot be Arakanese/Burmese nationals…phew!

Did Muhhamad say he converted or was going to convert? If Buddhism is alien religion what exactly are you in Burma? Unbelievable!

Quality comment or not? 7 4
55 Shah Arkani // Nov 9, 2011 at 10:30 am

Moe Aung # 52

British termed you Mug, “The Arakan Mug Battalion”, . Check the rakhapura website here: http://www.rakhapura.com/scholars-column/37-arakan-around-1830-social-distress-and-political-instability-in-the-early-british-period.

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56 Moe Aung // Nov 9, 2011 at 11:29 pm

Shah Arkani #54

It’s elementary. The British got their first toehold in Bengal before they took the whole of India. So your colonial masters got the term Mug from the Bengali.

The Burmese term kala used to apply to white Europeans and Indians alike, the latter first for obvious reasons. The Europeans were later distinguished by the suffix hpyu (white).

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57 Rahmat // Nov 10, 2011 at 12:10 am

Moug Aung

My colonial master have made Burma one of the most beautiful country in the world and was considered as third most rich in Asia that time .What your Fascist Master Ne Win did for you . Do you still have bad smelling when you travel in Rangoon city ????I am sure your masters built so many temples in Arakan With Rohingya Muslims donation and bribe .They can really have a wonderful time and enjoy the service they get from your local women in temples .

Moe ….you like that ?

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58 plan B // Nov 10, 2011 at 4:53 am

Peter #32

Do you work for BBC ?

Muhhamad #36

Thank you.

We are no better than BBC the supporter of useless careless sanction if we get bogged down on proving right or wrong BBC’s using useless careless prejudices.

Every borders of any country except, may be Australia has problems with immigration. In good times no one care much about citizenship or claiming the community as separate entity only during trying time does these factors come into play.

The present trying time is the result of the SPDC as well as the west still ongoing useless careless sanction.

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59 Min // Nov 10, 2011 at 10:26 am

”The main objective of the rebellion was to absorb the western frontier of Burma into East Pakistan. The newspaper, On May 18, 1949, The Hindustan Standard newspaper, reported about the following about the Mujahids.

“A dangerous aspect of this fighting is its international aspect: the Moslem insurgents have been carrying the Pakistani flag, and many of them clamor for the incorporation of this end of Arakan with Pakistan. It was suspected that they drew arms from across the border; the Government, however, is now satisfied that their rifles and ammunition are old stocks, left behind by the Japanese and British…. The great majority of Arakan Moslems are said to be really Pakistanis from Chittagong, even if they have been settled here for a generation. Out of the 130,000 here, 80,000 are still Pakistani citizens.”’[8]

[8] The Newspaper cutting is attached to weekly report No. 21 for the period ending 28th May, 1949, from the Deputy High Commissioner for the United Kingdom in in Pakistan, Dacca (The National Archives, London: 2-SEA 60/611: DO 196/133).

‘Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the Foreign Minister of Pakistan, visited Burma from January 18 to 21, 1964. In his statement he said:

“The Moslems in that portion of Arakan which adjoins with East Pakistan number about 400,000 and have lived there for generations and have acquired Burmese nationality. But they are patently of Pakistani origin and occasionally some Pakistani cross into Arakan illegally and mingled with the population. As part of drive to detect these illegal immigrants the local Burmese authorities have for some time employ extremely oppressive measures. The Pakistan Government is anxious that these Arakanese Moslems should not be goaded into leaving Burma and taking refuge in East Pakistan which cannot support them. Mr. Bhutto therefore urged the Burmese to modify their attitude towards these people and offered the maximum cooperation in dealing with any genuine illegal immigrants…. Ali Bhutto expressed his belief that the Burmese government would solve the question of Muslims in Arakan with sympathetic consideration and assured that Pakistan on its part would be glad to extend maximum cooperation in any way possible consistent with its policy of good neighborly relations.[17]”’

[17] The talk between Pakistani Foreign Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Burmese Foreign Minister U Thi Han on the Ali Bhutto’s visit to Burma from January 18 to 21, 1964. (The Confidential Letter of the British High Commissioner in Rawalpindi, Pakistan to the Common Wealth Relations Office, London, The National Archives, London, 2-SEA 60/6/1)

Reference:
Burma’s Western Border as Reported by the Diplomatic Correspondence (1947 – 1975)
Aye Chan
(Kanda University of International Studies, Japan)

Quality comment or not? 10 4
60 ayesan // Nov 10, 2011 at 11:17 am

The beginning of this irritated issue is that Ann Jones put the rohingya as the icon of Rakhine ,which is one significant state of our burma. Why did she do that ? She should be work as a professional journalist as part of BBC and also should have sense to be moderated usage. How arrogant and careless to other nationalism she is!!! Rohingya would not be never ever real burmease ethic as everyone accept !!!

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61 plan B // Nov 10, 2011 at 12:12 pm

The contiguous border. that is internationally recognized and legitimized by UN , that contain Myanmar is under the jurisdiction of the Myanmar government.

The SPDC being the de facto government then and now is entitled to define citizenship, Residency status or visitation right inside Myanmar.

The issue of which ethnic group by any known name is legitimate resident of a country without citizenship, approved residency status or visitation rights are none of BBC business, Period.

Using derogatory terms by anyone to claim and make irrelevant issues seem important, minimized and detract everyone from the ongoing sufferings of all citizenry, under present government knavery, as well as west useless careless, ongoing all talk no action engagement.

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62 Muhhamad // Nov 10, 2011 at 6:27 pm

@ Shah Akani #49
In my note, I didn’t say anything that means I will convert to any other religion. I was just pointing out that some of our Muslim brothers are obsessed with gaining the name Rohingya at the expense of our freedoms. We are now more targeted for suppression. We need to learn better to live in diversity. I don’t know if you are outside the country. I do have to admit that my Arakanese neighborhood is a warm one.
I have all the trust in the Almighty, but this does not mean that I have to disagree with other Arakanese all the time. A lot of us are more likely to be granted citizenship in the country if we stop claiming ourselves Rohingya all the time and agree to live in harmony. I have seen a lot of examples of this.

Quality comment or not? 14 0
63 Moe Aung // Nov 10, 2011 at 9:34 pm

aye san #58 made the very important point that “The beginning of this irritated issue is that Ann Jones put the rohingya as the icon of Rakhine ,which is one significant state of our burma. ”

As a result of the protests the BBC has also changed the map by adding a photo of Arakan ethnic women. The initial bias to the extent of omitting the principal national group in Rakhine State in favour of the usurper group or plain ignorance on the part of the BBC was there for all the Rakhine and Burmese to see.

Martin Smith’s The Muslim “Rohingya” of Burma(1995), posted by none other than the Arakan Rohingya National Organisation in 2006 sets the whole issue in its proper context from the beginning.

The charitable view would be that the BBC ‘s Anna Jones was either too sloppy to have done her homework or just confused and fooled by this vocal group supported by Saudi Arabia et al and other well meaning but equally confused people outside Burma.

Quality comment or not? 6 3
64 Min // Nov 10, 2011 at 10:08 pm

Will ANU’s Australia or BBC’s UK accept 7 divisions strong illegal immigrants trained to do terrorist, subversive and sabotage acts?
And they have arm catches too. There were police have to fight off
2 to 3 battalions strong Bengali men try to reach their arm depots
and caches but local police had to fight off. See below

‘Most powerful of these organizations is RSO [Rohingya Solidatory
Organization], headed by Dr Yunus. It has 74,000 trained members.
The NGO “Rabeta Al Islam” is headquartered just beside the camp
of Dr Yunus, which provides monetary help to RSO….
…September last year[2009] shows these camps have Chinese RPG-2, rocket launchers, light machine guns, AK-47 and M-16.
..A supporter of Jammat-e-Islami, Dr Yunus is currently residing
in England [BBC UK] and Dr Nurul Islam in Saudi Arabia.’

Rohingya poses threat to the state
Posted on Tuesday, December 28th, 2010
BDNL
http://bdnl.net/en/2010/12/rohingyas-pose-threat-to-state/

Quality comment or not? 12 4
65 Rahmat // Nov 11, 2011 at 4:49 pm

So can any responsible person tell us , what is the status of Rohingyas in Myanmar now ?

Thanks

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66 Zaw // Nov 11, 2011 at 10:29 pm

I think Burmese government has already pledged to accept
those second generation Bengladashi immigrants if they are
registered with UN. I think the rest are for Bangladesh state.

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67 Moe Aung // Nov 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm

Sadly it’s their extremist leaders who brought it on these unfortunate people, discriminated against as a result on both sides of the border.

The Mujahid rebellion ( no Rohingya in the national lexicon for another ten years yet) started alongside the Rakhine nationalist rebellion even before independence, demanding an independent Islamic state or wanting to join East Pakistan. Today they have made it worse by involving their fellow Jihadis and powerful Islamic states around the world as well as putting out the myth of being initial settlers on the Arakan coast insisting on calling the native people Maghs (bandits in Bengali).

Arakan/Arakanese is English. In Burmese it has always been Yakhine/Rakhine Pyi (land/country- we’ve lost the r sound whereas our close cousins have retained it ) or Yakhine lumyo (people) on the Yakhine coast across the Yakhine Yoma (mountains) from the Burmese heartlands.

As you sow so shall you reap.

Quality comment or not? 9 1
68 Rahmat // Nov 12, 2011 at 7:41 pm

Zaw

You maybe refering to the recent promise by Mynmar Government to Bangladesh government to take back Rohingya refugees registered in UNHCR ofice in Bangladesh .

I was asking the current status of Rohingyas who are living in Arakan state – Myanmar .

According to UNHCR office in Myanmar there are around 800 000 Rohingyas living in Arakan state – Myanmar.

Recently Myanmar Parliament failed to recognized the status of those Rphingyas who are severly discrimated and sometime exploited by Burmese Millitary using them as forced labour , when they are already living in apainful poverty .

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69 Martin Niemöller // Nov 13, 2011 at 4:12 pm

First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Quality comment or not? 5 0
70 Ye William // Nov 14, 2011 at 12:14 am

Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper.

George Owell

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71 Moe Aung // Nov 14, 2011 at 3:30 am

Martin Niemöller,

Great quotation, shame it’s simply out of place.

No bogus claims of ‘indigenous’ ethnicity, no territorial claims, no aggression/proselytizing on the native Rakhine….no discrimination, no persecution, period.

As you sow so shall you reap.

Quality comment or not? 7 2
72 mong pru // Nov 14, 2011 at 7:02 pm

Rahmat

there are no rohingyas in burma or rakhine. if unhcr thinks there are 800,000 of them there that is unhcr’s concern. period.

Quality comment or not? 7 1
73 Rahmat // Nov 15, 2011 at 7:58 pm

Mong pru

Good

But can you tell me your position in Burma or Arakan ?

I have already told you that current Burmese Government failed to recognized Rohingya status in Burma .

We can not leave Rohingya issue unsolve , since it is becoming an International issue , we would like to solve the issue peacefuly to end the suffering of a large number of people .

Who should be part of this problem?

BURMA and Bangladesh ?

or we have other parties who are concern with the Issue.

Yes UNHCR is closely monitoring the problem .

We want International meeting on solving Rohingya Issue to find a solution which can be acceptable to all parties .

Quality comment or not? 8 8
74 Maung // Nov 18, 2011 at 11:45 am

First they came for “Bu Thi Taung” and “Maung Daw”,
and I didn’t speak out because I don’t live there.

Then they came for the Northern Arakan,
and I didn’t speak out because I am not a YaKhine.

Then they came for the whole Arakan,
and I didn’t speak out because my home is in Rangoon.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Quality comment or not? 9 2
75 Maung // Nov 18, 2011 at 1:57 pm

We do not need any international meeting. It is our land,
we have been giving favours to those who sneaked into
our country by letting them make a living and living on
our soil.

Those concerned international bodies can bring those
illegal immigrants to their homes and home countries!

Quality comment or not? 7 5
76 mong pru // Nov 18, 2011 at 9:20 pm

“Burma government failed to recognized …. ”

No one failed to recognize rohingya … as i told again and again there is no rohingya on earth … it is just the hallucination of whoever is involved in making the name an entity! Forget about my position … I love to see Burma as a flourishing peaceful noncommunal country as it has already been. I want to see all people irrespective of race religion or faith undiscriminated. I want to see Burma’s people’s rights are not cut down by such discriminatory laws as Islamic Shahriya.

I also want to see its people live up to the mark … patriotic and peaceful … not religious bigots and striving for a hallucinatory islamic terrorist infested hell!

thanks …

Quality comment or not? 8 2
77 Moe Aung // Nov 20, 2011 at 4:34 am

The tragedy these people brought upon themselves is reflected in the discrimination they face on both sides of the border. Bangladesh does not want them nor does Burma, nor Malaysia, a Muslim country, nor Thailand (they have their own problems with the Islamic south).

There used to be a racist Burmese expression; if you see a viper and a Yakhine, kill the Yakhine first. But the Burman majority and the Rakhine used to be at each other’s throat in ancient times. Now they find a common enemy, an alien interloper who speaks neither Arakanese (an older dialect of Burmese) nor Burmese, in the so-called Rohingyas originally from Bengal who have usurped the term Arakanese Muslim from earlier Islamic communities in the Arakan.

Whilst the discrimination and repression are legitimate concerns their cause is not helped by well meaning outsiders fooled by their claims as well as their powerful Islamic state backers joining in the fray. Bengali men have been known to use Burma’s repressive regime as an excuse masquerading as Rohingya boat people, economic migrants masquerading as asylum seekers.

What’s more, the earlier communities, whether descended from Arab/Persian settlers or from the men King Narameikhla brought back from Chittagong to help repulse the Burmese from the Arakan in the 15th C, have their own lives adversely affected by the newcomers starting a secessionist movement in the three northern townships contiguous to the border as early as 1947.

The ‘Rohingya’ have the choice of dropping their bogus claims of indigenous ethnicity and territory, dropping the term Magh (bandit in Bengali) for the native Rakhine fully aware that it is insulting and offensive, living in peace with them, not proselytising….. or carry on as they have been and face the consequences.

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78 Myra Oo // Nov 20, 2011 at 8:18 am

We will not see real stories like below in BBC, those are on
social media Web 2.0 sites.

Genocide of Native Buddhists in Maungdaw, Arakan, Burma
By Maung Maung (a former immigration official in that district),
Translated By Hla Oo

http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2011/11/begali-maungdaw-genocide-of-native.html

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79 Shah Arkani // Nov 21, 2011 at 4:04 am

Wow! It’s unbelievable. All the ugly faces of ultra racists have been exposed. Mr. Racists and Bigots are still hyper active and keep showing their hatred.

Moe Aung #74,
You’ve written so many pieces with different IDs attaching Rohingya although no Rohingya have been writing there any longer. By the way, why you’re so eeked off by our name “Rohingya”? If you have to right to change your name from Mog to Rakhain to Yak-khine, don’t we have the right to call ourselves with whatever name we like? Or you consider yourself above law?

Can you tell me the following as why?:
-Akyab to Sittwe
-Rangoo to Yangon
-Burma to Myanmar
-Talaing to Mon
-Mog to Rakhain to Yak-khine

Who gave you the right to call us “Chittagonian Bangali”? Can you call whatever you like to call us? If you do, can I name you call you bastard? Think about it and let me know.

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80 Moe Aung // Nov 21, 2011 at 9:28 am

Shah Arkani #77,

a. Never needed a different ID.

b. Call yourself whatever turns you on, but usurping the term Arakanese Muslim and inventing Rohingya ID for yourselves wouldn’t make you an indigenous race.

c. Your ignorance shows. Really bad, though you obviously didn’t have a clue.

- Sittwe, Yangon, Myanmar and Yakhine happen to be the original names in the Burmese language. Akyab, Rangoon, Burma and Arakan are their respective English terms. You obviously never knew their real names before, only in English. More well known examples are München and Munich, Mumbai and Bombay, Beijing and Peking. Comprende?

- Mon and Talaing are synonymous, Talaing is an older term.

-The Rakhine have always been Rakhine, only the Burmese lost the r sound whereas their cousins whom they call Yakhine speak an older dialect and have retained it.

If they are Mog to you, you damn well are Bengali Khawtaw Kalar to us. That’s totally non-racist and non-abusive in contrast with Khway Kalar, I can assure you. Do you even speak a word of Arakanese/Burmese?

Quality comment or not? 11 6
81 Naing // Nov 21, 2011 at 11:40 pm

@”Shah Arkani”

Loving own country and protecting it from thuggish thieves
does not make one a racist. It is you who have a dark agenda
trying to steal our land beggin Saudi and OIC’s Petro Dollars.
It is alike burglars calling the hosts for not being hospitable!

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82 mong pru // Nov 22, 2011 at 10:00 am

shah arkani

you don’t need to be intelligent to call someone by any name, including racist, bigot and whatsoever. and by being called a racist, etc. alone doesn’t prove anything so. they are just puerile and unintelligent if not stupid act of the caller himself.

you may call magh/mug to any other people, that is your own language. the Rakhines, unless in south asia, don’t understand it. Interestingly in Tripura State of India, there are thousands of Magh or Mog people, and they are indigenous people of Burma. the Chittagonian bengali muslims have been calling Mug to any Buddhist people since time immemorial, They call the bengali speaking Barua Buddhists as Bhuiyan Mog/Magh.

for all these reasons I’ve every doubt about your identity – you must be a Bengali from Chittagong and not even a Musllim from Burma.

Many Rakhines feel proud to identify themselves as Magh – people in India already write and use the name as indigenous people to India’s Tripura State.

Thanks

Quality comment or not? 7 3
83 R. N. England // Nov 22, 2011 at 5:36 pm

The conflict here amongst people from Myanmar seems to reflect the cultural conflict going on there. Democracy is possible only where (and when) very nearly everybody accepts majority rule. If that is not the case, the choice is between creating divisions within which majority rule is possible, or rule by violence. Myanmar has tried the latter with little success. What now? Are there too many people that would reject the outcome of elections? Would a complete break-up merely spawn a clutch of warring failed states? A federation is the kind of compromise which may work. Does ASSK have the constitutional talents and the energy of a Bismarck to make it work?

Quality comment or not? 4 2
84 Moe Aung // Nov 23, 2011 at 7:26 am

mong pru,

Thanks for the info. I guess when you don’t speak the language the derivation/connotations of a name may not register, but can become an issue as people begin to realise. Even kalar for Indian races is misconstrued as derogatory by those who are called Kalar by the Burmese when it has no negative meaning.

You are right. Meddlesome outsiders do no favours to the ‘Rohingya’ cause.

Quality comment or not? 6 2
85 mong pru // Nov 24, 2011 at 9:17 am

Hi

How many people know that there is a Bangladesh consulate in Sittwe in Burma’s Rakhine State? What is it doing there while there is no Burmese consulate in Chittagong? Basically this consulate looks after the interest of their citizens in Rakhine State. Their citizens interestingly hold their passports, but live in Rakhine State. They are legal Bengali foreigners inside Burma’s soil. As other consulates worldwide, it also looks after Bangladesh interest in Burma. When dealing with the socalled people from northern Rakhine State, they are the illegals who sneaked their ways, BECAUSE THEY have no legal residency papers.

But as in other civilized countries, these people will in the long run be granted Burmese citizenship. And these rohingyanists are demanding blanket citizenship to all these illegal people! As I said before, with no ulterior motive behind creating rohingyanism, the matter could have been settled amicably. But with much uproar, it has gone beyond any rhyme or reason. The mess-up is directly linked to the hallucinations of socalled rohingya leaders, trained and used by an Islamic country, from the time before it got independence from Pakistan!

Burma’s people merged many foreigners in to their mainstream way of life and these people will also be mainstreamed in time, but how much logical is any blanket citizenship for every illegal foreigner?

Thanks

Quality comment or not? 9 3
86 Ne Myo Win // Dec 9, 2011 at 11:26 pm

OK! There is no such a name called Rohingya in the history of Arakan. British has recorded Muslims in Arakan as Chittagonians. So, in everyone’s opinion, this is the rightest term Biritish used for the Muslims in Arakan. So, British’s records are most correct. If so, what term did the British use for Buddhists in Arakan? Rakhine? Obviously not! If yes, is there any evidence for the fact that British refered the Buddishs in Arakan as Rakhines? British are right and honest because they refered Muslims in Arakan as Chittagonians. The same British are wrong and dis-honest because they refered Buddists in Arakan as Maghs. Why double standards?
Screw both religions, Islam and Buddist, and both names, Rakhine and Rohingya here. Let us put some logical arguments. Everyone will agree if we say that there were the periods called Dhannyawadi and Vesali in the history of Arakan. No one will deny this. OK, then. Can anybody tell us that the kings or rulers in these two historical periods, which dated back to more than 2000 years, belonged to which stocks of human race, Indo-Aryan (i.e. Indian-look-alike people) or Mongoloid (Mongolian look-alike people)? What are the meanings of terms Dhannyawadi and Vesali (Vaishali)? From which language these terms were derived from? In which stock of human race did Siddartha Gautama Buddha and most of earliest follwers, because of whom Buddhistism had spreaded throughout the region, belong to?
We know there was a people called Rakkhasha (in Pali meaning Cannibals) who used to eat even human beings who are stragers to them. The word has varied through historical periods from Rakkhasha to Rakkha to Rakkuain now to Rakhine. According some other people, Rakhine was derived from Pali word Rakkhita (meaning people who look after and take care of their race). Yet, it doesn’t matter to us. In accordance with the historians, the place was called Rakkhapura (again in Pali). Has the whole region of Arakan including Chittagong area been called so? Have the cannibals used to live throughout the whole region? How did these Rakkhasha people look alike, mongoloid, aryan, caucasians, negroid? Why was a Pali word “Rakkhasha” used to address cannibals? Who named these cannibals as Rakkhasha by using a Pali word? Wasn’t there be a paralell people to Rakkasha, who named them so using Pali word? Or have they named them “Rakkhasha” (cannibals) by theirselves using a Pali word? Was Pali the language of cannibals? Wasn’t Pali an Indian literature and language? Isn’t it originated to India?
Burmese Junta and some extremist Rakhines don’t want to recognize the name “Rohingya ” not because they want their real identity so as to give them “Nationality” but because once they become successful in branding them as Bengalis, it will become easier for them to drive them out of Arakan land. Ultimately, Junta’s dream of making Arakan into purely Burmanized Bhuddhist region will come true. Junta wants neither the people called Rakhines nor the people called Rohingyas. Thus, Juta has been setting up modal villages by bringing Bamars from central Burma. Rakhines are well aware of that. Some of the Rakhines simultaneuosly want to fight Junta on one side and Rohingyas on another side in order to have an independent land. It is a very wrong tactic. History has proven that. Hitler lost in the war because he fought Soviet Union on one side and English and French on another side.
Furthermore, we think everybody knows Mexico and Argentina, people there are of spainish origin and speak spainish language. Why don’t people call them Spainish instead of Mexican and Argentinian? Americans speak English language and most them are of English. Why don’t people call them English in stead of Americans? The word “Rohingya” is a slight variation of the word “Ruahonga” (in Rakhine meaning “from old village”) because the place where Rohingyas used to live was called Ruahong. Rohingyas have the habit of calling someone by the place name where they live. For example, if somebody is from Man-Aung, he will be called as Man-Aunggya, if from RatheThaung, then RatheThaungya and if from ButhiTaung, then Buthi-Thaungya etc. The word Rohingya has formed exactly the way Rakhine has formed from Rakkhasha.
In history, Rohingya didn’t feel to call them as Rohingya because the situation and the time had not forced them to call so. It doesn’t mean that this people didn’t exist before. So, if someone says there is no word as Rohingya in the history of Arakan, then there is no word as Rakhine either. I have just put a logical argument here. Anyone who is interested to reply to us is warmly welcome as long as he or she doesn’t go abusive. We, hereby, unconditionally apologize to anyone who is conciously or unconciously offended by the argument here. Our intention is not to create divides but unity. And webelieve that as long as two or more groups of people are not equal in everything, there will be no peace and unity. We need peace and unity in order to make our nation into a developed nation. No one can benefit from fights! So, enough of fights!!

Quality comment or not? 9 1
87 Maw // Dec 12, 2011 at 5:25 am

BBC puts out another controversial piece on the relentless persecution of the Rohingya, who have been in Burma for generations, by the Burma government:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4793924.stm

Quality comment or not? 4 7
88 mong pru // Dec 12, 2011 at 9:32 am

Dear Ne Myo Win

If you ever come to Chittagong, the southern part of Bangladesh, you’ll understand why Rohingya and Rakhine are one and the same. It is because the Bengalis from this particular place call the anyone from Rakhine State or Arakan as Rohingya in their own Chittagonian dialect. This name for an Arakanese has been hijacked by these illegal immigrants to demand a nonexistent kingdom inside Arakan or Rakhine State. This is the truth.

Even if the name Rohingya is there, it has nothing to do with these illegal immigrants of Bengali origin. The name Rohingya is another hoax, aimed at islamization of Arakan.

Thanks

Quality comment or not? 4 5
89 Abid Bahar // Dec 14, 2011 at 6:33 pm

Some links about Rakhine and the Rohingya debates might be interesting to readers;

Enclave with Influx Viruses Revisited in Burmese
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1339b70074295e9b&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3Daace2ffd6d%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1339b70074295e9b%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSMpCfWwukuaYiWf4MiuzSc1_giew

Who are the Rohingyas?
http://www.irrawaddy.org/opinion_story.php?art_id=15147#box

Xenophobia http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2007/08/12/xenophobia-a-brief-analysis-by-dr-habib-siddiqui/

Book: Burma’s Missing Dots
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30393201/BURMA-S-MISSING-DOTS
Xenophobic Burmese Literary Works – a Problem of Democratic Development in Burma
http://www.rohingya.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=43&Itemid=72

Quality comment or not? 4 3
90 mong pru // Jan 3, 2012 at 10:29 am

Abid Bahar, a dubious expert on Arakan, who has never visited Arakan in life, is a Bengali xenophobe from Bangladesh. With his personal links with some of the socalled Rohingya extremists and their dubious funders in the Middle East, has always written misinterpreted stories on Rohiingya. The links he has submitted on this article are misinterpreted and with a sinister planning …

Quality comment or not? 3 3
91 Abid Bahar // Jan 3, 2012 at 8:28 pm

Mong Pru calls me a “dubious expert.”
The point is if I am “dubious” how come at the same time, I would be an expert? This is called oxymoron in which he is contradicting himself. I understand his reasons for frustration. Mong Pru as expected is a prejudiced person; because even when my role here as the author of a book on Burma, ” BURMA’S MISSING DOTS” I am a researcher, and a professor in Canada but to him that I am not from his racial Rakhine background, I must not be trusted, I must be a “dubious” person, I could never go to Arakan for my research and my research got to be funded by Middle East money. What a great observation by a person who fails to understand what he is talking about!
This is the problem in Arakan, the prevelance of xenophobia due to the lack of education. Mong Pru is not the first person to express himself showing intolerance toward the Rohingyas and towards researchers like me. Their problem is their anger that instead of taking their side I am explainning with factual backups, the early signs of genocide in Arakan. Lately I has worse online encounters with several gentlemen one is named Aye Chan who is by profession is a teacher but called me a “Bengali” and a “Dog” not a researcher. It was on record. The notorious Aye Chan called the Rohingyas as being “Influx Viruses “implying that they are needed to be exterminated before the Rohingya virus exterminate the Rakhine-Moghs.

Quality comment or not? 6 4
92 Ne Myo Win // Jan 4, 2012 at 2:01 am

Dear Mong Pru,

I agree to you to some extent. According to Dr. Khin Maung, president of National United Party of Arakan (NUPA), he said in a conference held in Chittagong in 2008 that the word Rohingya represents both Buddhist Arakanese and Muslim Arakanese. In my opinion, it is an unbiased speech. It also matches to your point of view to some extent.

According to the book with the title “Za Lok Kay Pho Lay?” written by San Kyaw Tuan (Maha Wizza) from Rathedaung, it is written in page No. 81 that there are enough evidences that Indo-Aryan people, Mro people, Thet people etc have been living in Arakan as long ago as B.C. 3323. Who were the Indo-Arayan people? What were they? They are the Indian people or people who look like Indians. They can be the very forefathers of Muslim Arakanese (no matter what they are called, Rohingya or others) who have converted to Islam with the arrival of Islamic propagation as in the case of Malaysia and Indonesia.

So, there are two communities that have been living in Arakan from the time of immemorial. They are Buddhist Arakanese (who are Mongoloids) and and Muslim Arakanese (who are Indo-Arayans). Since, according to some historians, Arakan was called as Rohang by some people, the people who live in Arakan has become Rohingyas (both Buddhists and Muslims).

Therefore, Rohingya can be the name for both communities living in Arakan. Since, Buddhist Arakanese no longer call them as Rohingya but specifically as Rakhine, the word “Rohingya” has become the name for the Muslim Arakanese.

At the same time, one can’t deny that there were high level of mobility of people from (today’s) Bangladesh side to (today’s) Arakan during the British colonial time and vice versa. So, mobility of people could be for not only Muslims but also Rakhines Buddhists because these very same people exist in both countries.

Therefore, there are some Bengali origin in Muslims in Arakan. Similarly, there are some Bengali Rakhine mixed in Rakhines in Arakan. And there are Arakanese Muslims living among Bengali Muslims and Rakhines of Arakan living in Bengali Rakhines in Bangladesh. Mobility of people is a universal truth and can’t be denied. Thinking in only one way and stereo-typically will not give any solutions to the present problems in Arakan. We have to think unbiased and fairly.

Even the Bengali Muslims living in Arakan have already been for generations let alone original Arakanese Muslims. They should be awarded nationality. Look at the modern world. Obama’s father was Kenyan and Obama is the president of US now. There is no such “Kenyan” word used for Obama even though his father is from Kenya. Look at the football player of Arsenal, Theo Walcott. His father is from Jamaica. Yet Walcott is not called as “Jamaican” but as English. Both father and mother of Patrick Viera is from Senegal but Viera is a French. We, people of Myanmar, have to grow up a lot. As long as we don’t get rid of this communal hatred and chauvinism, the bloody tyrannic junta will keep ruling people ruthlessly. As I were saying, let alone citizenship rights and nationality rights, these Muslim people in Arakan don’t even have human rights. They should at least be treated as humans. I have seen their tragedies with own eyes.

Before you ask me back anything, I would like to say that I have enough knowledge on Arakan as I have worked with UNHCR in Maung Daw for two years and in Bangladesh for one year. And now, I am studying Human Science in UKM, a university in Malaysia. Dear all Rakhine brothers, my intention here is not to hurt you all. It is just because we would like to have a peaceful and developed country. I shed into tears if I see progresses in Malaysia. Malaysia was nothing in front of Burma in 1950s. People from Malaysia used to go to Burma to study and work. I was told by many educated old Malays.
This lack of unity and hatred in Myanmar have ruined the country.

Quality comment or not? 7 0
93 mong pru // Jan 4, 2012 at 7:53 am

Abid Bahar
You have done a PhD in a university in the west on the history of Arakan and Mogh. What do you mean by Mogh? Should it be used for Rakhine, it shows how you as a Bengali xenophobe is happy branding the Rakhine and Burmese Buddhists as Mogh. Personally I think this is one particular word used by you and many Rohingyas in their publications to brand Rakhines.

This term Mogh is purely a Bengali origin, and should any Bengali speaking Muslim including socalled Rohingyas should use it, it just reiterated their Bengali origin and not ‘Rohingya’. Your study on genocide is onesided, since the illegal Bengali immigrants of Maungdaw also conducted genocide against the indigenous Rakhine people and settled there.

You don’t need to talk loudly, go and check it in the land records of Maungdaw and Buthidaung.

msp

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94 Abid Bahar // Jan 4, 2012 at 11:09 am

Mr. Mong Pru,
I didn’t mean to hurt you when I addressed Arakanese buddhists as the Rakhine Moghs. It is a historical truth, if you look for it, you will see the term Mogh is still in comon use everywhere except in official Arakani usage.. Please also check the Arakan gazateer, everywhere Arakanese buddhists were addressed, as “Moghs”.
Oh I see you wanted to be addressed by us as “Rakhine.” Ok, I will even call you as Mr Mong Pru. But a little dose of history here in case if we don’t know. The name “Rakhine” is as new as the name “Rohingya.”
The word Rakhine began to be used from the 30′s and the word Rohingya from the 50;s. I hve no problem with both words. What about you ? I understand that Arakani Moghs to avoid stigma that “Mogh” refers to the medieval ” lawless pirates” took up a new name called “Rakhine”which is again ok with me but I am sure it is ok with you also for the word “Rakhine” but not ok about the word “Rohingya.”
It is a problem with funny people like you because you have something in your head that causes “allergy” and you say for Rohingyas the “so -called Rohingya” or call them as “Bengalis.” You see you act like Aye Chan, who is a Barua Mogh, Neither you nor Aye Chan act like a Rakhine gentleman.
In all these, I see you are capable of typing on a computer but when you call Rohingyas as bengalis, you failed to grow into a Rakhine gentleman. The point is if you are abusive with people, people will also mistreat you, therefore, as it says: everything starts from the self.
There is much to learn from Mr. Ne Myo Win above who lived in Maungdu and saw human suffering but are we ready to accept Rohingyas as the Rohingyas, that they wanted to be called and treated at least as human beings?
Did you get it?

Quality comment or not? 5 3
95 Min Shwe // Jan 5, 2012 at 12:01 am

Abid Bahar (#94),
You have succeeded in sucking me in with your preposterous response. What proof do you have that Aye Chan is a “Barua Mogh?” And did you just coin the term “Barua Mogh?” Are you like Shakespeare who can just make up an English word?
Also, how do you say Rakhine word began to be used since 1930′s? Are centuries/millennium of Rakhine writing not a proof? The term Rakhaing Tha/Thama/Prey has been in existence since time immemorial.
You seem to use the term Mogh quite freely, under a rookie debate trick of I’m not saying it but it’s been said. I am well familiar with the term “Mogher Mulluck,” which in Bengali implies land of lawless pirates. At times it is used derogatorily against Rakhines in Bangladesh. The irony in all this is the term Mogh in itself is Bengali!
You talk about the uniqueness of Rohingyas but in reality the language is the same as that of Cox’s Bazar/Chittagong Bengalis with a slight variation in accent.
The plight of Rohingyas in the camps near Teknaf is sub-human. The conditions are pitiful, akin/worse than city slums, which needs to be significantly improved.

Quality comment or not? 3 2
96 mong pru // Jan 5, 2012 at 7:54 am

Abid Bahar

I didn’t say Mogh is offensive. I just said Mogh is a term used by Bengalis, and Bengali agents led the British to Burma through Arakan. See, you again used the word Barua Mogh, which proves Bengalis like you are calling Mogh to any Buddhists, including Chittagonian Bengali dialect speaking Baruas who profess Buddhism. Your medieval Bengali poet Alaol (A Awwal) in his books including Padmavati, called the Rakhine as Roshang, again a Bengali form of Rakhine.
What kind of Arakan expert are you, if you just ignore Alaol? Alaol had a lot of praise for the Arakanese (ahem, Rakhine) Kings, telling in more than one place in his books the metropolitan nature of Mrauk-U, the capital. He never mentioned Rohingya.
Mogh is a Bengali word and the British learned it from their Bengali agents and interpreters who led them to Burma. Many Bengali historians in their writings testified to this fact. Dr Mabud Khan was one of them. For all your one-eyed observations, I have doubt of your scholarship … it is shame any western university should give you a doctorate, again on Arakan. It is a shame Bangladesh gave birth to a xenophobe like you. It is a shame you are so narrow and ignorant, even to your own little knowledge.

Socalled Rohingya writers including physician come terrorist doctor Yunus again and again used the word Mogh to denote the Rakhine, which proves his unerring Bengali origin.

Thanks,

msp

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97 Abid Bahar // Jan 6, 2012 at 3:23 am

It is very important that we should have debates to clear up things. For that I would like to thank the New Mandala to allow me respond to Mr Mong Pru and Min Shwe and others but as a matter of introduction, first I like the readers to kindly read the following short piece published in several places:
————————————————————————————
Living in the Racial Fault line: Rohingyas Look like Bengalis but are the People of Burma

Abid Bahar

Who are the Rohingyas? An Arakani xenophob named Aye Chan says they are “Bengalis” from Bangladesh, and many of his followers even call Rohingyas the “Talibans”; some even call them as “terrorists” perhaps because most Rohingyas are Muslims and to some racist people it is easy to find all Muslims as being terrorists. However, research shows that Rohingyas look like Bengalis but aren’t Bengalis. If Rohingyas are not Bengalis, who are they? Rohingyas are a mixture of people beginning from indigenous Chandra people of pre 10th century Arakan, and also Rohingyas in them had Arab and Persian traders from the 7th century settled in Arakan, and the Bengali Sultan’s soldiers send to Arakan with General Sindi Khan to help restore Noromikhala in the mid-15th century, and finally they also had in their people Bengali slaves captured from lower Bengal during the 16th and early 17th century from raids by Mogh (Rakhine) pirates in the Bay. These flows of people from the north and west of Arakan are recorded in history.1 These people who looked like Indians and Bengalis were scattered all around Arakan but due to their racial differences, eventually were pushed out to the Mayu frontier in the north. “Rohingya” as an official name adapted during the 50′s in the last century by its leaders to serve as a survival mechanism for its people to unitedly face the destiny of attack and expulsion by the brutal military regime and its Arakanese collaborators. However, the name “Rohingya was in use recorded by an early British historian of Burma.2 In Arakan not surprisingly, “Rakhine” is also a new name changed from the historic name “Mogh” Most of the Rohingyas look like Bengalis because Bengalis have similar historic backgrounds as the Rohingyas have from the past. The racially motivated discrimination and expulsion of the Rohingya people has been an ongoing phenomenon for years for these people. The latest large scale push was during 1942, the 1978 and 1993 and even now in a smaller scale.3

Historically speaking, Arakan was an Indian land but occupied by the racially mongoloid people during the 11th century removing the Indian Chandra dynasty. The dark skinned Rohingyas called by the Rakhines as “Kalas” are the indigenous Rohingyas. Rohingyas look like Bengalis but aren’t Bengalis. Like the Rakhines (Moghs) are racially like Burmese, so racially Rohingyas are like Bengalis. This is clearly because Arakan is a racial fault line. It is for this reason that there are Rakhines, Chakmas, Thanchaingas, Moghs, who are racially mongoloid people in Bangladesh. They are now Bangladeshi citizens. In contrast the Rohingyas in Arakan, Burma were denied of their citizenship in the 1982 constitutional reform by the racist military government of Burma. This change was done unfortunately (on record) with the help of some Arakani xenophobs like Aye Kyaw, Aye Chan and Ashin Nayaka who enjoy freedom and democracy in abroad but keep racist skeletons at home in Arakan; calling the Rohingya people as the “Influx Viruses”. In this act of suffering of a people, causing genocide and crime against humanity, the xenophobes even call themselves as democrats-ofcourse, it is acceptable in Burma to the military’s Burmese way to democracy. Thus Rohingya issue remains unresolved and the suffering of these racially different Burmese people living in the faultline continues.

References:

(1) O, Malley, Chittagong Gazettier, p.20, Abid Bahar, Burma’s Missing Dots, p.54, D.H.L. Hall, Burma, 37, Phayre, History of Burma, p. 172

(2) Francis Buchanon,”A Comparative vocabulary of some of the languages spoken, in the Burmese empire”SOAS, p. 40-57.

(3) Abid Bahar, Burma’s Missing Dots, 23-50.

(4) Abid Bahar, Dynamics of Ethnic Relations in Burmese Society. An Unpublished thesis on Burma 1982.

(Dr. Abid Bahar is a playwright and public speaker teaches in Canada)

Quality comment or not? 6 3
98 Min Shwe // Jan 6, 2012 at 7:04 am

Mr. Abid Bahar,

Thanks for your piece which gives me an opportunity to rebutt.

Your writeup has some interesting assertions but are factually inaccurate. You state “Most of the Rohingyas look like Bengalis because Bengalis have similar historic backgrounds as the Rohingyas have from the past.” This implies Bengalis of Chittagong (in itself a Rakhine word) Division are Rohingyas. Perhaps you’re implicitly suggesting Chittagonians are not Bengalis.

How can you assert “Arakan was an Indian land but occupied by the racially mongoloid people during the 11th century removing the Indian Chandra dynasty?” Because the word Chandra is Indian? So, are Sumatra, Singapore, Putrajaya, Delhi (in the US), Cincinnati Bengals all Indian? I like your term “occupied by racially mongoloid people,” presumably they were parachuted in in the 11th century (from China?).

Your writing is also self serving. You talk about name change from Mogh to Rakhine with a scholarly reference (3), which turns out to be yours!

[An observation that I have found generally with Muslim writers from the Indian sub-continent is they refer to anything Indian when they feel it is to their advantage, but then shun away from anything Hindu]

Quality comment or not? 4 2
99 mong pru // Jan 6, 2012 at 11:13 am

abid bahar

This is how you got a PhD on Arakan history? You are a great disgrace even to your own motherland, Bangladesh!

You never said in the 11th century most of the Chittagong and Comilla areas of Bangladesh were bones of contention for both Rakhine (Arakan) and Tripura kings. The presence of the name Mogh Bazaar in Dhaka proves that Dhaka was once part of the Rakhine kingdom. If not why does the name is still there?

Even during the ninth and tenth century Arakan there were Buddhists and Hindus living mutually peacefully in the country. The Ananda Chandra pillar inscription proves it. Were these Hindu kings (as you said about the kings of Vesali) Muslims or Rohingyas? Inn your earlier writings you said these Arakan kings were Hindus. Remember?

It is sad you are a one-eyed monster and the least of an Arakan historian!

Ha .. ha … ha ….

Quality comment or not? 4 4
100 Abid Bahar // Jan 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm

Mong Pru,
Please have patience and be respectful when making argument. Mong Pru, you have so much to learn not just about Arakan history but about how to be polite with the people you are debating . Please read the response of Mr. Shaw, and see even when he doesn’t agree with me he is not acting like you. You wrote”This is how you got a PhD on Arakan history? You are a great disgrace even to your own motherland, Bangladesh!”Look, what I have presented in the article above, I have provided references. This is how I have learnt from the West to work as a researcher on Arakan and a teacher on Interpersonal communication. If I were an angry person like you, and acting on your lrvel, I would be saying, “Stop behaving like a maruding Magh” or that “you are acting like an teenager in a high school.” because, as a teacher myself, I don’t encourage such behavior as yours.”If you continue like that we have to stop our debate here.
I suggest that you should stop and first see howI and Mr. Shaw continue with each other. We are going to start with a principle called ” we agree to disagree.” Which means that even when we have differences, we should be respectful. This is because, these issues are about history and state policies not about us personally. For example, when I used to talk to Aye Chan, we became friends, I even invited him to Canada and said I would welcome him to stay at my place. In my almost 20 pages review of Dr. Aye Chan’s work “Enclave…” I never ever used foul words like Mong Pru is familiar with.( I checked your other responses) Here you see I am not saying Mr. Mong Pru, because of the type of his behavior.
Wait a movement, I have a second thought. I think you are not the one I should be debating with. But if you understand what I said to you , you can join us later on in the debate. For now you control your emotion. Also before you join us, I want to know from you what do you do for living and what is your educational level. This is important because, in the past I had a debate with a Rakhine Mogh man from Netherland who was a dishwasher in the kitchen. He was acting with foul mouth. I can see Mong Pru is very poor not only in his communication skills but also in his knowledge of history. So before you join us let me know what do you do.
Next I will come back to respond to Mr. Shaw and we will continue. If we keep patience, I have a lot of issues to deal with in the dabate. But emember, even with a PhD I am not an encyclopedia, however, I promise I will do my best. Before I start the debate let me leave you something to read.

About the name “Rohingya,” readers might find the following brief note (abstract) interesting.
————————————————————————————–Constraints to Acceptance and the Discernment of the Symbiosis of Parasitism-A Study of the Rakhine-Rohinga Relations in Burma, paper presented in the English Department, Lethbridge University, Alberta, Canada.
Abid Bahar
When minority members from various splinter groups but with a common historic background of suffering and as a matter of survival mechanism takes on a common identity, it could be seen by the dominat group controling the scarce resources as a threat and dehumanize them to the symbiosis of parasitism.
Burma is a country ruled by the military through the use of xenophobia against non-Buddhist ethnic and racial groups. A study done on the so-called “kulas”(connoting being inferior, dark skinned people) of the Arakan state of Burma (Kulas are the Rohingyas) shows that Rohingyas perhaps following the Rakhines (who upto the 30′s used to be called “Mogh” “Mug,” pirate took on the name Rakhines) similarly Rohingyas took on a new identity the “Rohingya”(People from the old village) but now been dubbed in race-based stereotyping by the Rakhine-Burman ultranationalist media in Arakan as being the”Influx Viruses” (dangerous foreigners) on one hand and on the other, for the new name the military junta government have officially declared the Rohingyas as the noncitizens of Burma.The official media now propagates saying “we have never heard of this people in Burma,” these people are like “Orgies”and forcefully exterminates them, an interesting case of an ethnic group’s identity formation in response to the constraints to acceptance, resulting in the symbiosis of parasites in their country of birth, resulting even in their becoming statelesss.

Quality comment or not? 6 3
101 mong pru // Jan 7, 2012 at 8:33 am

abid bahar

i say again, have patience! the way you are teaching other people just show how big a braggart you are! this is particularly true of the xenophobic bengali extremists of Bangladesh! your kind of language and authorship arakan history is no bette than that of a typical garbage picking guys in bangladesh. if you are so ignorant of arakan history as it is evident from your writeups, first learn the history first, and that too, not with one eye shut tight.

you are just a fine example of the least educated ph d holder the world has ever seen. read your own language before you go to teach out there!

Quality comment or not? 3 5
102 Abid Bahar // Jan 7, 2012 at 8:34 pm

Dialogue with Mr. Min Shwe
——————————
Understanding the Rohingya People: Similarities and differences between Bengalis and the Rohingya people of Arakan (part 1)
Mr. Shaw,
Historically speaking, due to its location on a racial faultline, Arakan has remained an epicentre of refugee production in the region until our present time. In understanding this phenomena, for historians in particular, I think several dates are significant in the history of Arakan, beginning from 957 AD, through the 1430, 1660, 1666, 1784,1824 and 1982. In consideration of the above premise, when I say most of the Rohingyas have historically similar background as was with people of Bengal until the 11th century, I mean several things:
(1) Like in Arakan, Bengal was first Hindu then became Mohayana buddhist. In Arakan, the Mohanuni statue was by the Mohayana buddhists of the Chandra time and racially people were 100% of Indo-Aryan stock.”The coins of Wasali had the image of Siva engraved on it.” Arakan was known to Indian missionaries as the “Kalamukha” (land of the dark-skinned people). “The second phase of Indianization of Arakan occurred between the 4th and the 6th century AD, by which time the colonists had established their kingdom, and named their capital Vaishali.” By this time Arakan became a Mohayana buddhist kingdom. As a port city, Vaishali also developed some pockets of Muslim settlements from Arab and Persian businessman who on their way to the East settled in Arakan and Chittagong. In the process the name Arakandesa, Arakan, Arabic and Desha is Sanskrit became the name of the kingdom. This was Arakan until the middle of the 10th century.What was the language of these people? The language of the Chandras was proto-Chittagonian: Sanskrit, Pali, and Arabic mixed. See the ”The Anand Chandra Inscription, which contains 65 verses (71 and a half lines) and now sited at the Shitthaung pagoda, provides some information about these early rulers. .. This 11-foot high monolith, unique in entire Burma, has three of its four faces inscribed in a Nagari script, which is closely allied to those of Bengali and north-eastern India. There is no trace Burmese or Arakani script on it.
(2) Something happened, historians records in 957 AD when Tibeto-Burman people in large numbers entered Arakan and took its cntrol over defeating the Chandra Mohayanas and imposing Hinayana buddhism, the latter adapted from the Mons in the south who in their turn took it from Sri Lanka. Similar changes didn’t happen in Bengal. In Bengal, most Mohayana Buddhist were converted to Islam by Sufi mystics. With the fall of Arakan to the look alike Tibeto-Burmans, the Chandra Indians were either pushed to the north of Arakan or some even left Arakan for Bengal. Around this time, the defeated Chandra Royal family was found to settle in Chittagong proper. The Dev Pahar, named after Dev Chandra was the site of the new buddhist kingdom. In North Arakan, mostly Chandra Hindus (lower casts also known as the Rakkhas) slowly adapted Islam converted by the already existing Muslims of Arakan and Persian descent and most buddhist elites joined the Tibeto-Burnan Theraveda group or a defeated small number of buddhist adopted Islam. Arakan became on one hand Theraveda buddhist with largely Tibeto Burman stock, later came to be known as the “Mog/ Mug”. Moghs settled in the south and Muslims, Hindus and the other kulas Indian look alike people settled in the north. Durinng the Chandra times and to its end in Arakan, we see the traces of Arabic names such as Rambree, Sufi sites on Myu Mountain tops, and Badre Patis in the Northern part of Arakan. From the 11th century, clearly with the Tibeto-Burman rule, Arakan now began to look east only until the year 1430. (Continues to part 2).

Quality comment or not? 4 3
103 Abid Bahar // Jan 7, 2012 at 11:35 pm

Dialogue with Mr. Min Shwe
——————————
Understanding the Rohingya People: Similarities and differences between Bengalis and the Rohingya people of Arakan (part 2)

Arakan located in the racial faultline, the tiny kingdom continuously was exposed to attack from the Burmese invasions in the East and the Bengali gour kingdom in the West. To tacle this it had to know the balancing act which most often didn’t work as it was in 1430 the unexpected happened. Arakan was invaded by Burma. To save his life King Noromikhla escaped to Bengal. He stayed there for closed to two decades after which he came with a Bengali general to capture his lost kingdom. With this Arakan became a Bengali province of the Gaur. Due to the interaction with Bengal, a great civilization was developed at Mrohaung.
During this period, more people joined in the original Chandra-Arab Rohingya stock, such as the soldiers from general Wali Khan and of Sindhi Khan settled in Arakan. The Muslim title and coins and the official language being Persian during the Mrohaung period testifies Muslim presence.
However, starting from 1531 Arakan reasserted itself as an independent Mogh kingdom. During this time, in alliance with the Portuguge, through raids Bengali people in the lower Bengal were depopulated, captured and brought to Arakan as slaves. They were sent back to Kaladan valley to work in agriculture. Chakmas of Chittagong Hill Tracts left Arakan during this period to avoid in the Chakma terms “Mogher Upodrop”(to avoid the maruding Moghs). It says ” Biray galay Baghe Khai, ghore thaklae Moghr Phai” ( We we go out we are eaten by tiger and if we stay home we are captured by the Moghs. From these days onward the term Mogher Mulluk (Land of the Mags or maruders came into usage.

Arakan and Chittagong in Particular continued to receive Arab, Bengali and Persian influence both demographically and linguistically due to their location by the sea. While Bengal in general kept its Pali and Sanskrit character, Arakan and Chittagong continued to receive Arabic-Persian influence so much so that even now both Rohingya and Chittagonian dilect shows differences with Bengali. The negative first”No Jaium” (Not I shall go) in both Chittagonian and the Rohingya is different from what we see in Bengali “Ami Jabo na”(I will not go) the earlier one negative first follows a Persian style. Which means that from the time of the Chandras, to Noromikhla’s Arabic and Persian influence both in demography and in language was so strong in this region of north Arakan and Chittagong that to an outsider Rohingya language and Chittagonian language sounds similar. During this time, Arakan had historical Sindi Khan Mosque inside the Mrohaung city destroyed by the invading Burmese army in 1784. Arakan had also the name of the River Kaladan (valleys donated for settlements to the kala armies of General Wali Khan and general Sind Khan, Kalapanjer (perhaps meaning the five blackman advisors). The place Akyab similar to Punjab in India, a Persian name. Now from their historic name change from Mogh to Rakhine, all these above Muslim names were also changed by the Rakhine Mogh ultranationalists into names of their religios and racial choice .

(4)Unlike Arakan’s geographical location as if it is a part of India seperated from Burma by the Arakan yoma, Indian population settlement in this region is normal compared to people of Sumatra who were only visited by the missionaries from India, understandably, there was no mass migration to those areas from India.

During the entire Mruk U period Muslim settlement from Muslim countries and from Bengal remained continious; the captured Bengali slaves or people as the solders of fortune predominated in the Muslim settlements. During this time Muslims were king makers. Arakan’s largest largest Mosque, Jame-Mosjid was constructed in the 17th century.

Muslims arrival in Arakan effectively stopped after the murder of Shah Suja by the Mogh king in the year 1666 AD. Shah Suja, the Moghul governor of Bengal was assured of giving shelter in Arakan, but was killed along with his entire family. During this time, Aloal and many other Rohingyas had to flee Arakan for Chittagong.
This event was followed the Moghul emperor reconquring Chittagong reducing Arakan into a very tiny kingdom. The final blow however came when in 1784 Arakan was invaded by Bura and made it province of Burma. Arakan once a famous kingdom now is only famous internationall for producing refugees, protesting against the BBC.
Despite the lose of the kingdom, Rakhine attack on Rohingyas continues till today. After Budapawa’s invasion in 1784 Arakan was turned almost a land without people. Where did all these Rohingyas go? They (both Moghs and Rohingyas) left Arakan to settle in the safe heaven in Southern Chittagong. There are Mogh settlements in Chittagong and Chittagong Hill Tracts from this and from previous period. More than half of the people of Southern Chittagong from Sangha River upto the Naff River are known to be inhabited by the Rohingya inhabitants of Arakan. After Buddapawa’s invasion, some Moghs settled in Cox’s Bazar like their causins in Arakan lately changed their name from Mogh into Rakhines during Bangladesh President Ershad’s time in the late 80′s but in Bangladesh no body bothers about it understandly because Rakhine Moghs are rightfully Bangladeshi citizens and they have the right to chose their names.
As mentioned earlier, Rakhine-Mogh ultranationalist movement in Arakan began from the 30′s with the name change from Mogh to Rakhine, it also increased its official propaganda of “Islamphobia.”Whereas Muslim people’s migration effecitively stopped from the time of Shah Suja’s death, the ultranationalists in their bigotarily shamelessly call Muslims of Arakan as being “Chittagonians” or “Bengalis.” In their systematic ethnic cleansing effort, with place name changes and physically destroying Muslim presence in Arakan, Muslims of Arakan were also lumped together with the migrated Indian population to Burma during the British period. While the name “Rohingya was already existant in Arakan, Muslim leaders to claim their indigenous status distinct from the migrant Indian Muslims, during the 50′s they took officially the name”Rohingya”as a survival mechanism to live and face the common destiny. Even this didn’t help, with the rise ultranationalism, racism and religious bigotary RakhineMoghs from the 30′s continued massacring their fellow Rohingyas from 1942, 1960, 1962 and in 1978 and in 1991-92. In the latest large scale one, over 300, 000 Rohingyas were forced out of Arakan. Despite such attacks and oppression to the level of Rohingya genocide, Rakhine Moghs posing as gentleman in their ethnic cleansing attempts continue to use the Burmese military with the claim that Rohingyas are Bengalis and even “Influx viruses”says Aye Chan. Unfortunately Rakhine Moghs are only 5% of Burma’s population but occupies 30% of Burma’s armed forces, and in high positions perhaps works as obstacles to democratic development in Burma.

Rohingya similarities with Chittagonians was that both spoke in proto-chittagonian dialect but differences was while Rohingyas lived in a buddhist environment but Chittagonians in the Muslim environment of Bengal. While Muslim settlements in Arakan was historically immense, the military government of UNu along the Rakhine Mogh ultranationalists consider Rohingyas settlement in Arakan coincided with the British arrival in 1824-25. “This is the starting point of the present trouble.”" This way of understanding doesn’t take into consideration that” Burma was administered as a Province of British empire and Often times the British lumped the Rohingyas as the Chittagonians or Indian Muslims thus in this bigotary, Rohingya suffering in this racial faultline of Arakan continues.

Quality comment or not? 7 3
104 Abid Bahar // Jan 10, 2012 at 12:51 am

When talking about minority rights Democracy is only a slogan in Burma
———
Burma’s democracy problem is not necessarily a problem of military rule; it is a problem of its historic tradition of seeing the minorities as being guest people. Such traditional leaders and their followers nurtured this type of mindset for generations causing suffering to the minorities. With such mentality leaders practice forced labour, rape genocide and extermination of the minorities.
True, colonial demarcation of lines has not always been just. Ethnic groups almost always lived on both side of the border. Thus, Thais are Shans in Burma, Indian Nagas are Chins in Burma. Rohingyas of Burma concentrated in northern Arakan look very much like people of Chittagong. RakhineMoghs in Bangladesh looks like the Rakhines of Arakan. Neither in China, nor in India, or in Thailand or in Bangladesh the existence of such minorities is questioned as in Arakan of Burma. Unfortunately the leaders of such ethnic cleansing movement are educated people as Dr. Aye Kyaw, Dr. Aye Chan, Monk Ashine Nayaka, ( living in the West and enjoying Western freedom and citizenship rights). They find pleasure in freely propagating lies about the historic Rohingya existane in Arakan. They in their writings openly justify Rohingya genocide by calling them even as “Influx viruses”required to be exterminated before the “Virus” exterminate them. Year after year refugees have been taking shelter in the neighbouring countries bringing bad reputation for Burma. These intellectuals secretely do also profess Arakan’s independence.
Except in Burma, all the above countries around Burma accept minorities as their co citizens. In Burma, Rohingyas were officially declared in 1982 as illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. It seems that the old fashioned leaders, in not being able to change their age old xenophobic mindset about their minorities, Burma will continue to be burdened with xenophobic ideas for its march to freedom and democracy.

Quality comment or not? 7 4
105 Ne Myo Win // Jan 10, 2012 at 11:01 pm

Lately, it has been being seen that different people have been giving different opinions on Arakan and making xenophobic statements. After all, we all are humans. Why should we fear of other humans? Ignorance of history can make people blind. And why should we become blind after having two healthy eyes? But repeating bad history or talking back about it can lead to hatred or war. Frankly, in the past, Buddhist Arakanese fought Muslim Arakanese and vice versa. On top of that, Bamars fought Rakhines, Chinese attacked Bamars, Bamars attacked Thais on and on. If we think back of it, whoever we are, certainly our blood will boil up and be willing to revenge. But that’s not the way we have to live. We have to know the history to take steps with precautions so that the bad history doesn’t repeat and look forward how to advance in unity.

In order to achieve that, we have to erase the bad past. There is no race, I think, that doesn’t have a bad historical record in a way or other or that hasn’t committed mistakes in the past. For instances, Spanish were mass murderers of Red Indians, German were of Jews and British were of the people in their colonized countries. Are we still calling them as murderers? We cannot call them so because they have changed and regretted of their mistakes. Similarly, a sub-group of Buddhist Arakanese (i.e. Rakhines) had its share of bad record, too. This sub-group of Rakhines used to be sea-pirates and that’s why they got the tag “Magh.” And we have to, hereby, be careful that not all the Buddhist Arakanese were sea pirates. Besides, the word “Magh”, as I have learned in some historical books, is of Persian Language origin even though it was made popular by the people in Bengal and some people in Arakan.

Therefore, dear Dr. Abid Bahar, we appreciate you as a scholar and we request you to use the word “Rakhine” instead of “Magh” in your (normal) statements because it is sensitive to the Rakhine people. They don’t like to be called so. Why should other people call them so if they no longer to be known so? Furthermore, not all of them were sea-pirates. Calling them as they like will help the boiling situation in Arakan to cool down to some extent. But if you have to unavoidably use it or make direct reference to historical books, please use INVERTED COMMAS over the word.

Similarly, British recorded Muslim Arakanese as Chittagonians as they did Rakhines as Maghs. Nowadays, Muslims in Arakan are known as Kalas, Bengalis or Chittagonians. For information, Kala was originally a neutral word used for foreigners by firstly Bamars. It was not a derogatory word. Later, people have started to use the word for non-mongoloid people irrespective to foreigners or locals. It is quite obvious here (in Malaysia) that Bamars call Kalas to even local Indians of Malaysia, in a land where Bamars are foreigners. They don’t seem to understand or know the meaning of Kala. As I were saying, the word “Kala” is used for non-mongoloid people in Myanmar today. Specifically, the word has been being used to Muslims in Arakan because of their looks. But today, Muslim Arakanese don’t like to be called as Kala, Bengali etc because it gives them a foreigner image even though they have been there for generations. [Note: the name "Rohingya" is seemingly invented in 50s according to scholars. It doesn't mean that the people didn't exist before. Remember most of them are of Indo-Arayan stock. Indo-Arayan people have been living in Arakan since B.C. 3323 according to the book with the title “Za Lok Kay Pho Lay?” (written by San Kyaw Tuan, (Maha Wizza), a Rakhine from Rathedaung, foreworded by Dr. Aye Kyaw and contributed by scholars like Dr. Aye Chan, Khin Maung Saw) page No. 8].

Moreover, so far as I am concerned, the word “Kala” has become derogatory in Arakan. So, it is obvious why Muslims in Arakan don’t like to be called so. Why should we call someone with a name which he or she doesn’t like? To be fair, we should neither call Rakhine as Maghs nor call Muslims in Arakan as Kalas.

I have seen in some comments above that British used the word “Magh” for Rakhines because people in Bengal called them so and since British came to the Bengal first, they (British) got the word from them. It can be possible. Similarly, it can also be possible that British recorded Muslims in Arakan as Chittagonians because they came to the Bengal first and later to Arakan. As British saw the people with similar appearance in Arakan as in the then Indian side, they (British) called them (Muslims in Arakan) as Chittagonians. Let’s put it in an opposite situation. Had British come to Arakan first and later to Bengal, they (British) would have called people in Chittagong as Arakanese as they look like Muslims in Arakan. Wasn’t that possible? Logically, it was.

Furthermore, unlike Arakan, some parts of Indonesia and Malaysia were Indianised Kingdoms (not Indian Kingdoms), where concept of a nation, ruling systems, religions and languages were inherited from India due to their close relationships and missionary works. That is the reason why some Indians in Malaysia can claim that they have been living in the regions for many centuries even though most of the Indians were brought by British. But, as I mentioned earlier referring to the book “Za Lok Kay Pho Lay,” Arakan was a land of Indo-Aryans (e.g. Chandras who are Indians racially), Mro, Thet etc. But we can compare the above-mentioned Indianised Kingdoms of Malaysia and Indonesia with the Mrauk-U Kingdom established by Narameikh Hla (where the kings adopted Indian style but they were not Indians) with the help of Sultan of Gaur.

More importantly, I would like to point out how some members of Buddhism in Myanmar are deviating from the main concept of Buddhism in their so-called defense of Buddhism. One should wonder why Gautama Buddha left the material world for Jungles in search of “Taaya” (Taara in Rakhine), where he ultimately achieved the highest position, Nirvaana (Nivvan). Buddha was a son of a king, who was not allowed to go out of the royal palace so that he can’t see the sufferings of the normal people in the country. Buddha had a luxurious life before he left the material world. One day, he could get out of the palace and saw the inhumane sufferings of people in the country. He felt disgusted and he couldn’t tolerate the sufferings of people. In his inability to change the situation, he finally left the material world so as to find a way to get out of these sufferings.

In a nutshell, Buddha was strongly against any kind of sufferings of human beings and can be called a pro-peace. Today, some extreme members of Buddhism are ready to give any possible sufferings to human beings (in this case, Muslim people in Arakan) to defense Buddhism. Are they really Buddhists when they are going against Buddha? We have to think of it. Some of them claim that if we give a place to the Muslims, they will convert all of Buddhists into Islam, which is beyond my comprehension. They give examples of Malaysia and Indonesia. But they were no single forced conversion in Malaysia and Indonesia. All of them willing converted to Islam due to a Muslim saint.

In Myanmar, we are 85% Buddhists and 5% Muslims in the whole country. If we fear too much of 5% Muslims, it shows how insecure we are about ourselves and our religion. We should practice according to the constitution of our country, which gives freedom of religions and worships. Let them their missionaries work and let us do our own. There should not be any forced thing which was not done by Buddha himself.

Moreover, having stayed in Maung Daw for two years, I came to know the situation of Arakan. Some people claim that Muslims in Arakan cannot be nationals of Myanmar simply because they can’t speak Burmese. One would be wrong to say so because the educated Muslims in Arakan can speak Burmese fluently. Some of the Rakhines in rural areas of Maung Daw can’t speak Burmese either but they speak Rakhine language which is a different dialect of Burmese Language. Besides, some of Kachins, Chins etc can’t speak Burmese. And some my relatives back to Mon state can’t speak Burmese fluently. Are not they citizens of Myanmar? This fact cannot be a judgmental factor in deciding the nationality of the people in Myanmar.

As far as I am concerned, many Muslims in Arakan can’t speak Burmese because these people are locked mostly in northern Arakan and there are no proximity and close relationships between Bamars and these people. Many of them cannot find a single Bamar to speak with. So, how can they speak Burmese? We have to think logically rather than on arbitrary basis. But those (Muslims) people who have close relationships with local Rakhines can speak Rakhine fluently. The worse thing is that even many high school students in Maung Daw and Buthidaung cannot speak Burmese fluently because they are, in their schools, taught in local Rakhine dialect even though the books are in Burmese language.

Let’s put some arguments regarding this language factor whether or not it affects one’s nationality in other countries of today’s modern world. In India, most of the people like Tamils, Telugus, Malayalams, Tulus etc don’t even know what the (official) Hindi language is let alone speaking it. Are not they citizens of India? In Bangladesh, people in southern regions cannot properly speak original Bengali language. Are not they citizens of Bangladesh? In China, Mandarin and Cantonese are two different languages and there are many more on top of that. In spite of that, are not all they Chinese and citizens of China? In Thailand, people in southern part cannot properly speak Thai. Does it mean that they are not citizens of Thailand? In Malaysia, despite the very close relationships between Malays and Chinese, Chinese can’t properly speak Malay. As all know, Chinese are citizens of Malaysia. I wonder why only Myanmar has so many problems like this. Therefore, it is the high time to stop thinking stereotypically and think out of the box.

(I, hereby, feel responsible to mention that Rakhine people are also not having all the citizenship rights in Arakan as well as in other parts of Myanmar. Rakhines are not given luxurious posts in government especially in military. Even in Arakan, all the high level posts in government are held by the Bamars. Rakhines are also restricted to an extent that they can never become decision makers of the country.)

All in all, in the past, every people might have problems with others. But by giving mutual forgiveness, mutual love and mutual respects can only bring the much and critically required unity in diversity and political stability in Myanmar that will lead our country towards a peaceful, prosperous and properly developed nation. For otherwise, we have to continue our down slope situation from the richest country to the poorest country in South East Asia until we meet the end.

If I have made any mistakes, please forgive me as I am nothing more than a normal human being.
Unconditionally apology to anyone if he or she feels offended by my writings here!
My all writings are dedicated to peace-loving people!

Quality comment or not? 6 1
106 mong pru // Jan 11, 2012 at 8:17 am

Abid Bahar

As a typical Khawtaw Kala, you have again said Arakan is an Arabic word. Then again you also said “Neither in China, nor in India, or in Thailand or in Bangladesh the existence of such minorities is questioned as in Arakan of Burma.”

For the first halucinatory invention of yours, let me make it clear: should ‘ARAKAN’ come from ‘al-rokon’, the term should meand ‘the-rokon’. Unfortunately the Arabian languge has degective vowels and ‘rakan’ is closer to ‘rakhine’ – rather than to ‘rokon.’ In Arabic, al-rokon can be spelled as ‘alif lam –ra-qaf-nun’. this particular ra-qaf-nun can be pronounced as rakan, rikan, rakin, rukun, ….. anything. For Chittagong, the Arabic equivalent is Jaaaataam. And if any Arabian came and settled in Arakan, that could well be in Chittagong, since Chittagong was part of Arakan at that time. Should they settle in Arakan proper, they must have become Buddhists, without going into details as to why.
For the next comment, Hasina recently in more than a dozen occasions said that there are no ‘adivasis’ or indigenous people in Bangladesh. She particularly made the comment to deny the right of these people including Rakhine, Saontal, Chakma, Manipuri, Tripura, Khasia, etc. unwelcome and deny their rights of being indigenous people! You should understand that the Bangladesh constitution and the Pakistan Constitution (before 1971) recognized these people as ‘tribes’ and adivasis or indigenous people, because many parts of Bangladesh were part of India and Burma. (Anyone can check this from the old British archives in London).

Denial of Chittagong being not part of Arakan or Rakhine-pray is as puerile as any jaundiced historian could be. Besides, the people of Burma came to know Rakhine-pray not from their old history, but from the British invaders and their agents, the Bengalis, who came from the neighbouring countries with them. They helped the British understand that the area is Arakan and not Rakhine-pray. FYI, in the Ananda Candra pillar inscription, the name of the country is mentioned in Sanskrit as Araksa-desa, and not Arakan. Then again commenting the Mahamuni as a Mahayana image is as stupid as anything could be, and for all practical purposes, the Mahayana and the Hinayana or Teravadi schools of Buddhism are not like your Shiaas and Sunnis. Even today if you go to Nepal there you will see both the schools running side by side and with no conflict. Then these Buddhist people are also going to Shiva mandirs. On my last trip to Nepal last February I spend a night at Horse Shoe Mountain resort in Nepal. The owner spend two years in a Theravadi or Hinayana monastery as a Buddhist priest, while he also goes to the Mahayana Buddhist monastery, and worships the Shakti. Should such practice coexist today, the case of Arakan of course was the same.

The oldest Sima Ordination Hall (a symbol of Theravada Buddhism) of Myanmar was unearthed in Rakhine Vesali, when the old city remains were excavated. So you cannot brand Arakan as Mahayana, and the difference between Mahayana and Hinayana remains not in Philosophy and criticism of each other, it remains only in the languages they were propagated – Pali was the language for the Theracada school, and Sanskrit for the Mahayana School.

There is no blood feud like the Shia and Sunni Muslims between the two sects. While visiting Tibet, of course, I go to the Mahayana priest, in Thailand of course to the Theravada school. Buddhists make no distinctions, and in terms of the Sanskrit language inscriptions in Arakan or Rakhine, many scholars came to this conclusion that Arakan was Mahayana. But when the Sima Ordination Hall of Wethali was unearthed, people know the truth.

Dear Abid Bahar, as I have always requested you, please don’t keep your one eye shut and shout one sided views, you were not born with one eye only.

Quality comment or not? 4 4
107 Abid Bahar // Jan 18, 2012 at 4:59 am

Aung Pru,

Hasina, the Prime Minister of Bangladesh didn’t declare the tribals of Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh as the noncitizens of Bangladesh, as Rohingyas were officially declared by the Burmese military government at the recommendation by a group led by Aye Kyaw as noncitizens.What Hasina was saying about the tribals is that they are not the indigenous people of Chittagong Hill Tracts. Please check their origin, Chakmas left Arakan during the 14th century, Rakhine Moghs of Cox’s Bazar left Arakan to settle in Cox’s Bazar as late as during the British period to escape Budapaya’s invasion, and the Marma during King Razagri’s time which I believe during the 15th century. She is not against the tribals, she is very sympathetic to the tribals. She is asking the tribals that historically they are not indigenous to the land. This in no way denying their their citizenship rights.

Hasina is helping the tribals of Chittagong Hill Tracts by implementing the peace treaty signed between the tribals and her government. Her government is very much favoring the tribals. The present Bangladesh ambassador to Burma is a Chakma person. Can you believe this type of trust by the Burmese government with the Rohingyas? Xenophobia is so strong in Arakan that perhaps this type of trust with the Burmese Rohingya people will not happen in our life time! Burma is changing, if such changes takes place in Arakan the tringle of Rakhine-Rohingya-Burm, if Rohingya citizenship rights are restored, it will be a true change.
Please check the video:
Stateless Rohingya … running empty
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wShJ0dv121U&feature=player_embedded

Quality comment or not? 3 3
108 Mong Pru // Jan 26, 2012 at 7:38 am

Abid Bahar

The Rakhines may have come to the Cox’s Bazar area after 1784, but remember, long before Bodawpaya, there were settlements of Rakhine/Marma population in Chittagong, have a look at Rajmala – the history of the Tripuras.

You are right, there are no citizenship for Rohingyas … but there is citizenship for Bengalis in Arakan, or else how come many were elected in the elections?

Forget your peace treaty … as recently as last week Santu Larma called on a new struggle for the establishment of peace treaty. Hasina signed the treaty to catch UNESCO award … she never meant any good for the minority people.

For your kind information … that Chakma ambassador has been ‘defrocked’ of his ambassador cloak last week.

Thanks for your of being blind of one wye!

Quality comment or not? 5 1

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- Ohn: Thank you #3 and #4. Sometimes it is lonely among the sycophants.
- john francis lee: Barack Obama … the predator drone, the Assassin in Chief, the world-wide...
- Roy Anderson: To answer your question, certainly not. Thein sein has committed murderous attacks...
A statue in Naypyidaw: Exploring motifs and meanings (4)
- Nic Dunlop: I should’ve asked someone there but I was in Nay Pyi Daw for another purpose....

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