Bangkok, 23 November 2011: At the Criminal Court, today, a Chinese descendant Thai, Mr. Amphon, aka “Arkong”, 61 years, who barely reads and writes Thai was convicted to 20 years of imprisonment. His crime: texting four messages to a phone belonging to Abhisit Vejjajiva’s personal secretary.
Each sms earns him five years (4 messages x 5 years) as per Section 112 of the Penal Code and the 2007 Computer Related Crime Act, Section 14(2) and (3). The texts he sent were allegedly considered defamatory to the HM the King and HM the Queen of Thailand. He has been suffering from laryngeal cancer and over the past one year, has been detained in prison and denied bail.
Full report is here.
102 responses so far ↓
1 Maratjp // Nov 23, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Andrew, you need to publish that photograph of him with his grandkids. Nothing more needs to be said…
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2 Srithanonchai // Nov 23, 2011 at 10:44 pm
I really wonder whether these Thai authorities deliberately want to weaken the monarchy ahead of the looming succession or whether this result is merely an unintended consequence of their actions…
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3 banphai // Nov 23, 2011 at 10:51 pm
A detailed account of the Court proceedings (in Thai and English) is here:
http://ilaw.or.th/node/1229
The whole episode is an outrageous disgrace. Thailand is indeed a cruel and uncivilised nation state.
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4 Andrew Spooner // Nov 23, 2011 at 11:45 pm
And, on the same day, Thailand’s Democrat Party announced the creation of their own “cyber warrior” unit to track down those committing lese majeste and also to legally pressure the government to prosecute each and every case.
http://bit.ly/s9tKfi
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5 Sam Deedes // Nov 24, 2011 at 1:28 am
Andrew Spooner modestly omits to directly mention
his own report on Mr Amphon’s case where he reminds us in fitting language that:
such harsh sentencing undermines Thailand’s standing as a responsible member of the international community, painting it as little more than a North Korea with spas and temples.
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6 A Noo NY Mouse // Nov 24, 2011 at 3:43 am
@Srithanonchai
I would bet on an unintended consequence. Whenever the monarchy is involved, Thai officials immediately throw any notion of common sense or justice out the window, and either follow instructions from above to the letter (if they’re fortunate to have them), or do whatever they think might show utmost and unquestioning loyalty (regardless of guilt, innocence, or even long-term public opinion of the monarchy).
Moreover, Thai law enforcement and judicial system tend to arrest and convict the first convenient suspect. The matter of actual guilt is just an unwanted hassle — if it turns out he’s innocent, the authorities then have the problem of finding (and convicting!) another one.
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7 CT // Nov 24, 2011 at 7:40 am
I would not comment on the disgracefulness of this case as this has been very well explained by the above posters and Dr Walker himself. Let me, however, just comment about how surprised I was with the reaction of my Thai friends about this case. Most of my Thai friends are those so called ‘Salims’ ie. those middle class to upper middle class Bangkokians who look down on rural Thais as uneducated peasants, and they are those people who are fanatical to the Monarchy to the extreme and will usually condemn people who are convicted of LM that ‘they should die, they should rot in jail for speaking bad things against the K, they are betrayer of our nation and deserve to be hanged etc. (other ridiculously barbaric and uncivilised remarks; you name it). Thus, I was prepared to see my friends making these embarrassingly barbaric and uncivilised remarks against this poor old man.
To my biggest surprise, I hardly saw those remarks from my friends. Instead, most of them feel sorry for him. I don’t know whether it is just my friends, or other Thais whose friends are Salims can confirm whether their Salim friends have the same reaction my friends have.
Anyway, I second Maratjp’s suggestion that Dr. Walker should also post the photographs of him hugging his grandchildren in Court during the proceedings. Those photographs are truly heartbreaking. To hell with the Thailand’s claim that it is a peaceful Buddhist nation. Thailand is in fact a barbaric, uncivilised nation consisting of bloodthirsty and brainwashed souls who are ready to kill to protect their dictator leaders. I lost counts of how many times I thought, “I used to be proud for being a Thai, but now I wish I could boen elsewhere”. This case has made me feel that way again.
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8 Andrew Walker // Nov 24, 2011 at 8:46 am
I have added the photo. AW
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9 Tarrin // Nov 24, 2011 at 10:19 am
Adding to khun CT
Jailing an old man for 20 years for something he might actually didn’t do is not something to bragging about I guess, that’s why the tone of “salim” seems to be milder this time. What I find most annoying is the royalist word like “its hurt Thai people feeling”. Is your feeling worth so much that you have to retort to such a barbaric mean to quiet the word that you don’t like to hear.
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10 Vichai N // Nov 24, 2011 at 11:35 am
“Most of my Thai friends are those so called ‘Salims’ ie. those middle class to upper middle class Bangkokians who look down on rural Thais as uneducated peasants, and they are those people who are fanatical to the Monarchy to the extreme and will usually condemn people who are convicted of LM that ‘they should die, they should rot in jail for speaking bad things against the K, they are betrayer of our nation and deserve to be hanged etc. (other ridiculously barbaric and uncivilised remarks; you name it). ” – CT(#7)
Maybe you should hang out with different Thai friends CT? Stay away from negative people, places and whatever.
All my friends (all educated Thais) on the contrary received with shock, disbelief and dismay this recent LM case against a near illiterate Thai. This is the type of LM case that should never have been tried . . . LM deserves to be abolished because of its repeated abuse.
And why was he ignored completely by the Red Shirt leaders (who should have provided support and a more capable lawyer) at the very outset?
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11 Jesse // Nov 24, 2011 at 12:37 pm
If you know that such behaviors could land you in jail, then what was the reason to do it then whine about it when you are convicted ?
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12 Arthurson // Nov 24, 2011 at 1:03 pm
I have had about 30 minutes for the shock and horror to sink in. Mr. Amphong, a.k.a. “Uncle SMS” has been until this point the convenient offender, old, poor, uneducated, and unable to defend himself. He is a hapless victim. It is quite possible he didn’t send the offending text messages; even if he did, the prosecutors should have done a pass on this one simply on the basis of mercy and possible issues of the mental health of the alleged perpetrator. I feel very, very sorry for him. I am guessing that most other people, when they hear the facts and see the photo, will as well. Therefore, it is our duty to humanity to spread this photo as far and as wide as we can.
This is a lesson to Amnesty International as well. If you choose to ignore a human rights issue like Lese Majeste and Article 112 it doesn’t go away, it only festers and gets much worse. Time to wake up and do your job!
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13 Z // Nov 24, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Shame, Shame, Shame.
Thailand is a disgrace to freedom in the world. May the tyrants suffer the same fate as thier victims.
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14 Stuart // Nov 24, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Words fail me utterly.
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15 tom hoy // Nov 24, 2011 at 3:34 pm
One can only hope that the complainant, Mr Somkiat, the private secretary of Mr Abhisit has recovered from the “upset” and will sleep well tonight in the knowledge that this denagerous crimninal will be behind bars for the rest of his life.
I’m sure Mr Abhisit is proud of this contribution to the lustre of the -cough- Democrat Party.
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16 CT // Nov 24, 2011 at 3:55 pm
@Vichai asked:
Maybe you should hang out with different Thai friends CT? Stay away from negative people, places and whatever.
—
Hahaha, thank you for the tip. The reason I still don’t really ‘break’ my friendship with these friends I have is because I believe that most of my Thai friends are actually kind at heart. I know many of them since primary/middle schools, and they are great parts of my childhood. Many of them are nice and sincere, but now they are just too fanatical to the Monarchy that they would wish anyone who does not love him to be killed. I believe one day they will realise that they were wrong and change their thinking. That’s why I wouldn’t break my friendship with them.
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17 R. N. England // Nov 24, 2011 at 4:20 pm
The people of Thailand have seen enough. It’s time for this teetering pyramid of fear, grovelling, and tyranny to be swept aside to make way for democracy. Only then will brave and merciful Thais be filled pride in their country instead of shame.
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18 La útlima desgracia de la Lesa Majestad en Tailandia // Nov 24, 2011 at 4:34 pm
[...] "CRITEO-300×250", 300, 250); 1 meneos La útlima desgracia de la Lesa Majestad en Tailandia asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/11/23/thailands-la… por balpo hace 6 [...]
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19 Srithanonchai // Nov 24, 2011 at 4:38 pm
#4
Pressure on the government to show “loyalty” does not only come from the royalist aphichon’s political party, the Democrats (who have recently been so proud of providing a “constructive opposition”), but also from its very own newspaper, the Bangkok Post.
In an editorial published on November 23, Yingluck was urged to publicly confess her guilt in having tried to use the king as a political tool “to rescue the convicted felon Thaksin” on the occasion of the amnesty issue.
The relevant sentences of the editorial read,
“Never has politics been allowed to intrude into the auspiciousness of pardons and the great events around them.
(…) Under no circumstances should any faction or party be allowed to inject politics into the gracious granting of pardons and remissions of sentence.
The draft decree should never have been written, but because it intruded on such an auspicious event, the government must account for its actions.”
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20 Andrew Walker // Nov 24, 2011 at 6:32 pm
See Tyrell Haberkorn’s comments at Prachatai: http://prachatai.com/english/node/2909
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21 Andrew Spooner // Nov 24, 2011 at 6:49 pm
More details on the case here including some very surprising comment from the trial judge.
https://bitly.com/va6x3G
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22 Cliff Sloane // Nov 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Can somebody post some information on Somkiat? He is the one who, after receiving four anonymous SMS messages, chose to prosecute rather than just delete them. Would it be appropriate to hold him and his judgment up to public scrutiny?
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23 Gallileo // Nov 24, 2011 at 7:54 pm
From the Times of London.Editorial of 24.11.2011
“Thailand’s childish, idiotic lèse-majesté law is a stain on that nation’s standing in the world.”
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24 Marteau // Nov 24, 2011 at 8:45 pm
This was pretty much expected but is a shocker nonetheless. “The court ruled that Ampon failed to provide credible evidence to back up his defence.” Yes, he didn’t but equally the prosecution failed to provide more than circumstantial evidence to support the claim that he did it. The prosecution’s case seemed to leave significant, reasonable doubt that he sent the messages himself. In addition there was no obvious motive or record of any past anti-monarchist behaviour. Of course it is possible that he really did send the messages but in a case like this where there is no firm evidence and reasonable doubt cannot be dispelled a jury in a common law jurisdiction would not be permitted to convict. But then Thailand is not subject to juries, common law or even any discernible form of rule of law.
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25 Tench // Nov 24, 2011 at 9:04 pm
The account of the proceedings Banphai posted (#3) is worth reading. Among the defence evidence presented was the fact that the IMEI no. of a phone can be changed using a device called a flashbox. Presumably this means you can make a call from your phone appear to come from someone else’s phone. The judge decided not to record this particular piece of evidence because, “he sees that it is irrelevant.”
Great.
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26 Sue // Nov 24, 2011 at 9:51 pm
A 17 years old senseless girl ,a daugther of one of the Thai elite
drove a car without a driver license hit a van killed 9 passengers ( most of them are highly educated ), no jail term and so far no legal punishment. Then a frial ,poor and defendless old man , no solid proof of his alleged crime of sending 4 sms deemed insulting the K and Q was sentenced to 20 yrs in jail. If this uttery distorted judiciary and society are not changed soon enough, the world community will soon witness a civil or class war in the once proud as a peaceful buddhist country.
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27 FYI // Nov 24, 2011 at 10:39 pm
heads up people…
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/267732/facebook-like-button-may-bring-lese-majeste-charge-against-users
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28 Somsak Jeamteerasakul // Nov 24, 2011 at 10:55 pm
Cliff Sloan writes #21
Can somebody post some information on Somkiat? He is the one who, after receiving four anonymous SMS messages, chose to prosecute rather than just delete them. Would it be appropriate to hold him and his judgment up to public scrutiny?
Somkiat himself actually wrote some response to the verdict on his facebook. See the report (in Thai) at Thai E-News here http://thaienews.blogspot.com/2011/11/20.html.
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29 Tarrin // Nov 25, 2011 at 12:05 am
Jesse – 11
Yes jess its totally odd, that’s why many people think this is not a case since the evidence is so weak, didn’t it tick you one bit of why the old man would send the sms to the person who certainly wouldnt stay quiet about it? dont you think this is just too funny to be true?
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30 Ricky // Nov 25, 2011 at 2:40 am
My view is that we are stuck with 112 for some time unless the King publicly repudiates the law which he could do if he is well enough to deliver his annual birthday address. It is difficult to imagine anything less lifting the terrible burden of fear that so grips Thailand today.
As for justice for the old Mr Arkong, it appears on the evidence presented he did not send the offending messages to this odious secretary of the PM responsible for the disgraceful events of 2010.
If the true “offender” were to speak up and proudly admit sending the messages while making their details public would the authorities not be forced into releasing old Arkong ?
If this admission were to be made in a foreign country while seeking political asylum would this not be a terribly embarrassing situation for the whole Thai political establishment and perhaps even alert the King to the need for him to repudiate 112 ?
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31 Thongchai Winichakul // Nov 25, 2011 at 2:41 am
May I suggest some pages from David Streckfuss, Truth on Trial in Thailand, that may shed light on how the lese majesty charge and trial work in Thailand?
1. Chapter 12 on truth in news, art, and in history, esp. those “principles” on pp. 281-284
2. Then please read the section on pp. 67-80, esp. bottom of p. 75 to p.76
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32 T F Rhoden // Nov 25, 2011 at 2:58 am
Amazing Thailand indeed…
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33 Nick Nostitz // Nov 25, 2011 at 3:10 am
Another incredibly harsh sentence. I am lost for words.
Besides the personal tragedy of each single accused and convicted, I wonder when the ultra-royalists will understand that each such case has done, and continues to do far more damage to the monarchy than any anti-monarchist can possibly do.
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34 Simon // Nov 25, 2011 at 3:11 am
Today the Communication Minister warned Facebook users not to press the ‘like’ button on Lese Majeste material – or they might be charged under the Computer Crimes Act.
Anyone hoping that this government will do something about the Lese Majeste law is likely to be disappointed.
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35 Doug Olthof // Nov 25, 2011 at 5:54 am
The issue of Thai reactions to this case is an interesting one. One of my friends in Southern Thailand (someone I would definitely not describe as a “salim”) wrote the following:
ปัญหาเช่นนี้มีอยู่ทุกประเทศ คุณเชื่อไหม แม้แต่ในไทยถ้าคุณได้มีโอกาสดูรายการ คุยกับแพะคุณจะสะเทือนใจมาก เพราะมันมีเป็นจำนวนไม่น้อยเลยทีเดียว ที่มีคนต้องติดคุกโดยที่ตัวเองไม่ได้ทำผิด และได้รับโทษจำคุกอันยาวนาน หากการได้รับโทษนั้นมีผลกระทบ เพียงแค่การขาด “อิสรภาพ” เหมือนกับคำว่าการ “ไม่ได้กินข้าว” มันก็คงไม่เจ็บปวดเท่าไหร่ อย่างมากก็แค่ตาย แต่การขาดอิสรภาพของมนุษย์ผู้บริสุทธิ์คนหนึ่ง มันมีผลกระทบทั้งชีวิตของคนผู้นั้น นั่นหมายถึงครอบครัว เศรษฐกิจ สังคม
เราคงไม่สามารถเรียกร้องให้เกิดความยุติธรรมขึ้นในสังคมได้ แต่เราสามารถพยายามที่จะส่งเสริมให้คนที่ไม่ได้รับความยุติธรรม มีปากเสียง มีพรรคพวก มีพลัง และได้รับการเยียวยา
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36 Doug Olthof // Nov 25, 2011 at 5:59 am
My admittedly loose and probably inaccurate translation is this:
‘Do you believe that this kind of problem happens in every country? The difference is that in Thailand, you have an opportunity to see an entire litany of cases. Speak with the victims and you will be deeply moved. There is but one reason that their number is not at all small: people are imprisoned even though they have done nothing wrong; they are assigned guilt and long prison sentences. Where the assignment of guilt has power to strike only to the extent of withdrawing “freedom” (equivalent to saying “you cannot eat”) it is something that doesn’t hurt all that much: no more than death. But withdrawing the freedom of an innocent person has the power to damage entirely the lives of that person’s family members, the economy and society. Surely we cannot expect the achievement of “justice” in society, but we are capable of trying to support those who are the victims of injustice such that they have a voice, companions and strength, and, moreover, that they can recover (heal).’ (corrections of this translation are welcome. I am by no means fluent in Thai)
What strikes me about this response (as I told my friend) is the recognition of injustice and the seeming resignation to it. Other friends I have to about this case have emphasized the innocence of the victim, rather than the absurdity of the sentence or the lese majeste law itself.
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37 CT // Nov 25, 2011 at 6:57 am
No one except the King himself can abolish this law without any risk of attack from brainwashed royal fanatics. The law will be abolished one day. It is up to the King to choose whether he would want to voluntarily abolish it to save his family, or let the law be forcefully abolished by the people. If he chooses to do nothing, then that means he has chosen the second option. And there will be heavy consequences.
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38 Ricky // Nov 25, 2011 at 11:50 am
Isn’t it time to get the Christians interested in this issue? I find it terribly offensive when I hear a positively awful song which takes words directly from Handel’s Messiah which refer to “the Almighty” to describe the King of Siam. This is nothing short of blasphemy and the composer and musicians who perform it any person who broadcasts it should be dealt with by the Inquisition.
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39 tom hoy // Nov 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Ricky (c.29) and CT (c.36)
I take your points but it is not true to say that only the king can address the injustice of these laws and change them. The laws were enacted by Thai governments and a Thai government that cares about free speech and justice can just as easily revoke them.
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40 Preedee Hongsaton // Nov 25, 2011 at 2:24 pm
“A man who is made disabled at the age of 61″
Duanwad Phimwana
He was born normal,
neither physically nor emotionally disabled.
He can love and be loved,
He can hate and be hated,
as an ordinary man.
In 2011,
he is still alive,
alive to see things rise and fall.
In a black and white photo before 1932,
though most men in that photo have gone,
but the undemocratic ghost,
still lives through time,
emerged unashamedly after 1932,
cruel enough to crush ordinary men into pieces.
In the portrait of truth, men died of war,
they died of natural disaster,
of crime,
of accident.
The world is dangerous.
Though my country is even more dangerous.
A man at the age of 61,
convicted of a crime,
convicted of being human,
convicted of not being disabled, physically and mentally,
convicted because he can love, and be loved,
convicted because he can hate, and be hated,
convicted of being born,
born as an ordinary man.
24 Nov 2011
[http://prachatai3.info/journal/2011/11/38016]
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41 birdwatch // Nov 25, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Vichai N Says why was he ignored completely by the Red Shirt leaders who should have provided support and a more capable lawyer.
What good are lawyers when judges make cockeyed decisions like this.
The judge said’ The prosecution could not clearly prove that the defendant was the person who sent the offensive text messages.
They found him guilty anyway.
But Vichai N is right, when it comes to lese majeste the Reds Shirts leaders and Puea Thai party are as bad as the un-democrat party.
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42 Stuart // Nov 25, 2011 at 3:22 pm
I am deeply shaken by this – more than any other story that I can remember. Looking back, I think this will prove to be a seminal moment for many. All the stupidity, inanity and sheer bloodyminded lunacy of the royal establishment is embodied in this one awful and tragic event.
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43 Nick Nostitz // Nov 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm
“Simon”:
“Anyone hoping that this government will do something about the Lese Majeste law is likely to be disappointed.”
It is naive to hope that this or any elected government of Thailand is able to ‘do something about’ the lese majeste laws as the 112 laws protect the core of what the establishment considers as Thai identity. Even attempts by liberal royalists who are uncomfortable with the present use of these laws to somewhat softly reform them are futile.
We have seen under the Abhisit government, for example, that Abhisit’s many public statements that he feels that Chiranuch should not have been accused were ignored. The commission he installed to vet cases was utterly useless, and even though Abhisit has stated publicly that academic comments should not be considered as lese majeste was brought ad absurdum the army chief filed a case against Prof. Somsak.
When even a government supported by the ultra-royalist elites could not do anything, how can anybody expect that his government now, which has been continuously accused by its opponents of being anti-royalist, and whose previous incarnation has been ousted by a coup – one of the main reasons given by the coup makers was “disrespecting the monarchy” (Gen. Sonthi), can do anything regarding this issue without sparking another coup, and subsequent bloodshed?
I would also somewhat disagree with the line of argumentation that “CT” raised – that only the King personally can abolish this law. I fear that the issue is far more a structural problem within Thai state ideology, the present inability of reaching a new social compromise under the ongoing conflict as loosely represented by the colors of Red/Yellow and therefore dismisses the complexity of the game.
For both sides 112 is increasingly a center piece and symbol representing their radically opposing views on Thai society and the only legal vehicle to publicly express these positions, which in itself makes a public debate on reform of the lese majeste laws almost impossible at the present time, and which consequently leads naturally to further radicalization – a classic catch 22 situation, with possibly dire consequences in the short- and mid-term future.
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44 Maratjp // Nov 25, 2011 at 5:24 pm
The picture speaks a thousand words. It needs to be made the icon of lese majeste reform in Thailand and the world. This photo and the sympathy that it evokes is more threatening to the elite than a thousand vulgar posts on Facebook.
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45 Simon // Nov 25, 2011 at 6:14 pm
“Nick Nostitz”
The government has an outright majority in Parliament. If they don’t have the balls to tackle the issue then I have little sympathy for them. There is no need to to issue a compulsive-obsessive apology for their behaviour. Rather, they deserve some stick for it.
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46 Blind Freddie // Nov 25, 2011 at 6:20 pm
hmmm…
Its ‘bucket of cold water’ time folx..
For those who ]for one moment believe that the King disapproves of 112 but is helpless in the face of the brainwashed and self-interested Thai elite that he has himself created, are (in my opinion) just… well, potty.
Anyone who believes for one second that the same King was not behind the last coup, now-referred to as the ‘poison tree’ coup, is just… well, potty.
The same person is responsible for both and lies behind both as was responsible for the huge brainwashing and propaganda exercise that is post-war Thailand. The same person that was behind reviving the formerly long-abandoned tradition of grovelling on your belly in his presence.
So much for Phuea Thai and Yingluck Shinwatra, rarely has such an opportunity for some well-overdue social engineering been so recklessly squandered. Meet the new boss – same as the old boss (apologies to messrs Daltrey and Townshend).
I sometimes refer to Thais as not very bright, an observation which is repeatedly borne out by referring to the average IQ values in Thailand. When I do, I am invariably subject to a howl of protest from the PC brigade who accuse my observations as racist, no matter what the truth behind them is.
But really, does this shameful new low in Thai jurisprudential history not bear out exactly what I have said? That Thais are superstitious and not very bright souls who will never manage to struggle out of the ‘developing’ (aka undeveloped) world until they learn how to think from time to time.
And the Americans must bear a huge responsibility for the parlous state in which Thailand sits at present, they used to call themselves ‘the policemen of the free world’, the ‘leaders of the free world’, ‘land of the free and home of the brave’.
Can”t think of a single better example of what the Americans believe is the ideal population than to look at the 64 million under-educated under-achieving, not very bright but very superstitious and unbelievably gullible Thais who live in Thailand.
Well done Uncle Sam.
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47 Cliff Sloane // Nov 25, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Nick is, I must sadly say, completely correct.
Witness the numerous examples where a nation behaves in such a contrarian way that it seems nearly perverse in the defiance of external opinion. Pakistan and India, North Korea and the South, Myanmar and the world, Israel and settlements, etc.
The lese majeste issue, more and more, seems like another example. The more Thailand seemingly humiliates itself on the world stage, the more intractable Thai authorities become in pledging themselves to even more prosecutions.
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48 john // Nov 25, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Nick, I doubt that the reason the PT party and red shirts leadership do not act against 112 has anything to do with the fear of a coup, but instead, IMHO, because the law can be useful to them, and their leader Thaksin.
His brand of governance, which so often has bordered on authoritarianism, can definitely accommodate such a law that is, on the face of it, part of a a long-standing arsenal of means to (paraphrasing Chomsky) manufacture consent, fear and self-censorship.
Obviously, the mild thai public reaction, so much in contrast with the reaction of the civilized world, but also with the cries of justice heard loud and clear during the “arab spring” this very same year, is an element never broached upon in comments, though it is the great enabling factor that helps put an old grand father in jail for 20 years over a few SMS.
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49 Andrew Spooner // Nov 25, 2011 at 8:13 pm
In my opinion Nick Nostitz’s analysis is pretty good though I lack his faith in Abhisit’s desire to reform or curtail the use of LM given all that has happened.
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50 Andrew Spooner // Nov 25, 2011 at 8:42 pm
In regards to Nick’s analysis I also think the international community and NGOs should certainly have been doing much much more to deal with this.
Silence on Da Torpedo led to this moment.
Amnesty and Zawacki can complain about this case now but Ah Kong’s imprisonment is as much on their hands as anyone else’s.
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51 Nick Nostitz // Nov 26, 2011 at 1:50 am
“Simon”:
“The government has an outright majority in Parliament.”
And that means just that – a majority in parliament. It does not mean that it controls the army and other unelected sectors of the Thai state. The 2006 coup was done for far less sensitive reasons that the 112 issue.
“Andrew Spooner”:
“Amnesty and Zawacki can complain about this case now but Ah Kong’s imprisonment is as much on their hands as anyone else’s.”
You overestimate the influence NGO’s and Amnesty International have on Thailand’s internal politics, and underestimate the willingness of the Thai state to go to extremes when it concerns perceived threats against the monarchy.
Quite possibly you will also find that this case here is a lot better suited as a symbolic case for campaigns by international organizations than the Da Torpedo case.
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52 Tony // Nov 26, 2011 at 6:29 am
What will really make someone ill is that none of you actually care about this guy – inside you are gushing with delight because you’ve finally got something you can hold up after weeks, months, years of nothing. Still – since none of you know the contents of the SMS – for all you know it could have contained threats of violence which would land you in prison no matter WHAT COUNTRY you’re from.
Does that stop you from jumping to conclusions and using this for your political agenda? No – not by a long shot. You’re just as bad as the people putting this guy in jail – maybe – depending on what the SMS actually said.
Personally I think LM charges should be rolled over into sedition/treason charges – and aimed at UDD, PTP, Thaksin, and all these fake US funded NGOs like Prachatai (yeah remember it was a conspiracy theory – now it turns out they get millions year-to-year from USAID, NED, Soros, etc). As far as this old guy goes – since I don’t have all the facts – unlike the rest of you – I’m going to reserve my comments until I have all the facts.
The rest of you – Walker doesn’t count – he is a paid shill, this is his job since a productive living is beyond his intellectual means – I suggest you be as impartial and principled as you pretend to be and don’t let people prey on your emotions.
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53 Andrew Spooner // Nov 26, 2011 at 8:13 am
Nick
No, I don’t under or over estimate anything. Please don’t make assumptions.
And the opinion of the international community is important to the Thai “elite” (you use the word “state” – which “state” do you mean? The public one or the hidden one?) – it’s just that that opinion has been successfully co-opted via the moral relativist narrative of “don’t say anything” for far too long.
Listen to Fergal Keane’s interview with Abhisit – Mark Vej immediately retorts back to Keane’s questions with “look at the reaction of the international community last year [during the massacre] – they did and said nothing” to excuse his own actions.
AI has principles that are in its charter. They have been making exceptions to that charter in Thailand and it stinks. Mealy-mouthed excuses don’t cut it and never have.
I would also say the NGO community have very successfully portrayed Thaksin as a corrupt and gross human rights abuser to the international community. They did so very effectively.
Why did they stop with him?
And your final paragraph, if it in anyway reflects the mind set of the NGO community in Thailand, is quite appalling.
Is the suggestion that only certain groups and persons are worthy of having their human rights’ protected? That Ar Kong’s are more saleable than Da Torpedo’s? That’s quite terrifying.
I’m fed up of hearing excuses as to why Amnesty have been silent for years. Their policy on LM has been a complete and total failure. Their job is to protect human rights not the visa of their Thailand-based researcher.
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54 CT // Nov 26, 2011 at 9:38 am
I can tell you from my experience that many Thais who are fluent in English who work in NGOs (and many international organisations such as UN etc) are mostly Salims. They may see the issues of human rights violation in other countries, but they won’t see the violations in their country because the elites have distorted their rationale. So dream on that the UNs/NGOs in Thailand will do something about this.
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55 john // Nov 26, 2011 at 9:38 am
Sorry, guys, for barging again, no disagreement with what is said, but don’t you think that the way thais are not planning any action, collectively, to even mildly show in some numbers, that there are cases of L-M that are handled so forcefully that it damages the image of the country, makes it difficult for things to change?
It could be that all independant (from any color of shirt, any tycoon, any party) possibilities to organize a respectful but meaningful protest have been suppressed a long time (but then, it is a situation unique to Thailand, after all Burma, Cambodia, and of course Egypt, Syria, etc… quite repressive, murderous states, saw protests erupt on the line of non-violent demonstrations untied to any status quo forces).
What is your thought on this? It took over 2 months last year for the army to crackdown and people die (and it was mired in political maneouvering and direct calls for disobeyance that told us we were getiing to the “shooting” point), hard to believe a one-day demonstration that would signal that people do love the Monarch but have enough of how carried away the use of the LM law has gone, can be such a risk (I am talking real demonstration, peaceful and numerous, not 200 with banners of course)?
If thais do not think, or wish, they can do that, there is no way the international community can effect the changes wished. IMO.
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56 Ralph Kramden // Nov 26, 2011 at 11:16 am
Nick: I believe you may miss the main point in Andrew Spooner’s comment. He is referring to silences. The silences by HRW and AI are significant. AI may be less significant than some think, but they did get a private meeting with Abhisit when he was PM…. But that may still not be the basic point.
When international NGOs and foreign governments (via their embassies) together remain silent we are getting towards a conspiracy of silences that mesh with the preferred position of royalists in government and the conservative elite who prefer no noise on LM. By not being heard to deplore clear human rights violations each time they are seen means that these governments and NGOs are seen as contingent on human rights.
If nothing else, such human rights contingency means that those governments and international human rights organizations let down their own people and international supporters, respectively.
In specific cases, public silence leads to dire consequences. For example, silence by the U.S. leaves their citizen Joe Gordon rotting in jail even when he has taken the usual “prescribed” action and decided to plead guilty.
An irony of the LM situation is that Thais officials who administer LM are apparently themselves taking illegal or at least unconstitutional actions (see https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/facts-that-should-be-known/). The irony seems to be that to enforce the LM law, state officials willingly break the law and violate the constitution.
The current rising wave of LM action is meant to further enforce silences. AI, HRW and the main foreign embassies have a voice. If they remain silent, then who is to speak in a situation of threat and repression?
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57 Andrew Spooner // Nov 26, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Ralph
Silence equals complicity.
Nobody knows what effect AI and HRW would have had had they been speaking out about LM. We can only theorise.
But Amnesty didn’t remain silent. Ben Zawacki has made numerous comments, both privately and publicly, that reveal him not only as collusive but delusional. His “private” conversations with Abhisit proved utterly useless and seemed only to reveal that Zawacki had been co-opted and compromised.
I have long maintained he should resign. I don’t see any reason to change that view.
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58 Ricky // Nov 26, 2011 at 6:17 pm
For your information here’s the list for Chiang Mai’s King’s Birthday Parade.
The event is the brain child of a senior officer in the Labor Department, in Chiang Mai. Recently an officer of the department addressed a meeting of foreign residents to warn folk that any person who performs “work” without having a work permit, which of course costs money, is liable to a fine, imprisonment or both.
I wonder how many people will be carrying NO 112 banners?
List of the Parade for the International, We Love our King’s Day
* Note : There may be more groups like Swiss and Japaneses etc.
A. The International processions.
Let by the Marching Band of Montfort Collage.
1. Scottish Pipe by Andrew McRady
2. Kids on bikes.
3. The Chiang Mai Ballet Academy and Peruvian Citizen
4. Taiwanese Business Association.
5. Rainbow Foundation.(50 Pax)
6. Chinese Students from Rachabaj University 100 Pax
7. Chinese Students from Maejo University 100 Pax
8. Chinese Students from Chiang Mai University 80 Pax
9. German Business Association 35 Pax
10. The Expatriates and Chiang Mai Friends Group led by the Jazz Band
11. Asia Foundation 40 Pax
12. Montfort Collage 50 Pax
13. Dara Collage 20 Pax
14. Chong Fah Chin Soeng Wanichbamrung 50 Pax
15. Srinakarintara Child Developtment Academy 10 Pax
16. Nithijitrak Foundation 5 Pax
17. Soe Teachers 25 Pax
18. Warm Heart Foundation 15 Pax
19. Thai Lanna Spa
B. Tribal Groups
Led by Marching Band of Sri Sangwan School
1. ขบวนเผ่าอาข่า (Akha)
2. ขบวนเผ่าม้ง (Mong)
3. ขบวนเผ่าลาหู่ (Lahu)
4. ขบวนเผ่า กะเหรี่ยง (Kar ieng)
5. ขบวนเผ่าลีซู (Lisu)
6. ขบวนเผ่าเมี่ยน (Mein)
7. ขบวนเผ่าดาราอั้ง (ปะหล่อง)
8. ขบวนเผ่าชนเผ่าอิ้วเมี่ยน (Iu Mien)
9. ขบวนเผ่าคะฉิ่น (khachin)
10. ขบวนเผ่ามละ (Mla)
11. Dtai Lue Procession ขบวนวัฒนธรรมไทยลื้อที่อยู่ : เทศบาลตำบลดอยสะเก็ด โทรศัพท์ : 053-495782, 053-291738แฟกซ์ : 053-291380 อีเมล์ : dsk2542@gmail.com นายนพดล รัฐศุภางค์ (ตุ้ย) ปลัดเทศบาล 081-783-8963 ดต.ประดิษฐ์ สอาดล้วน นายกเทศมนตรี 081-881-1360
… etc
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59 Ralph Kramden // Nov 26, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Oooh! Tony’s back. More total nonsense. At least this time he doesn’t purport to be peddling facts.
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60 Jesse // Nov 27, 2011 at 12:09 am
When I look at this picture, I see a selfish man who chose to do something without thinking of the consequence. What was this idiot trying to proof ? I pity him and feel terribly sorry for his family.
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61 tom hoy // Nov 27, 2011 at 4:30 am
“Isn’t it time to get the Christians interested in this issue? I find it terribly offensive when I hear a positively awful song which takes words directly from Handel’s Messiah which refer to “the Almighty” to describe the King of Siam. This is nothing short of blasphemy and the composer and musicians who perform it any person who broadcasts it should be dealt with by the Inquisition.”
Yes, and it’s sort of lese majeste against all the other kings. King of Kings? How dare they?
I’ve noticed that too and as a loyal subject of Her Brittanic Majesty, I’ve taken offence. It’s quite presumptuous.
How dare they?
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62 Silly Me // Nov 27, 2011 at 4:31 am
Believe it or not, to date, les majeste is the biggest cause of death in Thailand. How I wish Thailand could be a true democratic nation where all men and women are equal.
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63 Stuart // Nov 27, 2011 at 10:10 am
One small and obvious point that actually hasn’t been made (as far as I’m aware) is that Arkong effectively received the death sentence, given his advanced age. The prosecutors would have known this and given it due weight in their sentencing deliberations. Is this, therefore, the first death sentence under 112?
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64 Nick Nostitz // Nov 27, 2011 at 11:23 am
“Andrew Spooner”:
Zawacki’s statement regarding this case here:
“This sentence clearly infringes on freedom of expression,” said Benjamin Zawacki, Amnesty International’s Thailand researcher. “Amphon is a political prisoner.”
and:
and according to Benjamin Zawacki, Thailand’s lese majeste law, in “its current form and usage place the country in contravention of its international legal obligations.”
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/thailand-%E2%80%98repressive%E2%80%99-20-year-sentence-text-message2011-11-23
“Ralph Kramden”:
Public silence does not need to mean consent. There are times when too much noise can be counterproductive. The problem is also that the present 112 discussion is a war by proxy, a jungle of agendas, and not just the establishment attempts to co-opt media/NGOs/academics, but also the establishment’s opponents.
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65 Ralph Kramden // Nov 27, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Nick: Which time was it when there was “too much noise” from HRW and AI on lese majeste? I can’t seem to recall it. The silences by HRW and AI are significant.
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66 Jesse // Nov 27, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@ Silly me
Believe it or not, to date, les majeste is the biggest cause of death in Thailand. How I wish Thailand could be a true democratic nation where all men and women are equal.
Really ? More than HIV+ related death caused by western men or the continuing massacre in the south of Thailand ? And in case you don’t know the number of females in the senior positions are higher than any other country in the world !
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67 Srithanonchai // Nov 27, 2011 at 4:22 pm
The Bangkok Post has a very interesting editorial this Sunday, headlined “Look at lese majeste laws.”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/268068/time-to-take-a-serious-look-at-lese-majeste-laws
Key sentences:
“A critical barrier remains before Article 112 and the Computer Crime Act can be examined seriously. It is the charge, often politically loaded, that the desire to examine and perhaps to amend the laws is linked to respect and affection for the monarch and monarchy.”
“The idea that discussion of the lese majeste law is somehow disloyal to the monarchy is emotionally loaded, but empty. The law cannot affect love of the monarch.”
It seems that moderates of the royalist aphichon recognize that, at present, LM and its reform can still be handled, but that there would be insurmountable problems in the post-succession period, with concomitant fallout for the monarchy. In this context, it is interesting to see Thongthong Chandrangsu, a technocratic-legal expert on all things royal, be appointed by Yingluck to lead the office of the PM.
On the other hand, as Voranai points out in his Sunday column on the same subject —
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/268071/the-strange-saga-of-uncle-sms –
the Democrat Party is still in the hard-line corner. Abhisit, in the run-up to the elections, had pushed the Election Commission to prohibit anybody from using the monarchy as a tool during the campaign period. Post-election, the Democrats are back to using the monarchy as a tool to put pressure on the Yingluck government (though the party also has ideological reasons for this approach).
One cannot hope to pull the PAD, Dr. Tul’s group, and certainly not the new fanatically royalist kids on the block–Siam Samakkhi–into the moderate’s corner. But it would be good if the Democrats abandoned their position on this issue, and joined the moderates to create a broad front of political support for the modernization of 112.
Otherwise, as much as the Bangkok Post and others, for different reasons, want to see a change of 112 and the CCA, the public outcry following any announcement of a reform of this article/act by the Yingluck government would be deafening.
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68 Andrew Spooner // Nov 27, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Nick
Zawacki’s statement is way way too late and appears contrived. He should have been saying this when Da T was imprisoned and not running off to Kasit’s MFA for “advice”. Is it welcome? I suppose it is but I want to see both AI and HRW do much much more than one statement every 10years.
Have AI,HRW ever visited a LM prisoner in prison? Not from what my sources tell me. Have AI/HRW ever publicly complained about the denial of medical care to Joe, Surachai, Da T? Don’t think so. What about all the threatening hate campaigns launched in conjunction with the last Democrat Party govt? Did AI or HRW investigate any of the extra judicial killings of UDD members that happened after April/May last year? And what about the 30year+ sentences handed out to UDD members recently? No comment on those?
This is not just about a silence on the issue of LM but a silence on a lack of proper due process, the treatment of prisoners and pogroms against academics and 17year old girls. Have AI or HRW even heard of Krissada Klaharn, Deang Kotchasarn or Sawat Duangmanee?
From I can work out from previous statements by both AI and HRW is that anyone whose human rights who have been breached who are connected to the UDD is considered “political” and drops down in status for both organisations. Privately, several Thai HR activists have told me this as well. Such is HRW’s and AI’s Thaksin hatred (which makes them both politicised) that they have been less than diligent when it comes to mouthing protest to breaches of UDD supporters’ HRs.
And the quote “its current form and usage place the country in contravention of its international legal obligations” AI and you have used.
That conclusion was reached by the UPR in Geneva. I’m not sure AI even attended and I know, for a fact, it was a conclusion reached a long time ago by another HR NGO (not based, incidentally, in Thailand) and which was then taken up by the UN Special Rapporteur on FoE after Geneva. I don’t think AI had any input into any of that (your BZ’s friend Nick, maybe you can confirm with him?).
If that’s correct for Zawacki/AI to then attempt to claim credit for this without referencing any of the processes or sources involved in coming to that conclusion is not only incredibly arrogant but borders on a form of plagiarism. He and AI are claiming the credit for the hard work of a lot of other people without even acknowledging them.
My view remains that HRW and AI have been spectacular failures in Thailand. They are compromised, collusive and weak. And they work within restrictions they refuse to acknowledge or mention to their wider supporters.
If they can’t do their jobs properly in Thailand they should leave and set up elsewhere.
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69 Thongchai Winichakul // Nov 27, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Finally, after years of mistakes, AI and Mr. Zawacki agree that victims of the LM are political prisoners.
Does this mean that their previous stance on Da Torpedo — that she is not a political prisoner becuase 1) she made hate speech, 2) Thai monarchy is a champion of human rgihts — also change?
Does this mean that the AI’s silence for years on LM cases and victims will be over?
Does this mean that Mr. Zawacki’s silly excuse for his and AI’s silence — such as that the back room deals or negotiation with Thai authorities help LM victims better than a public statement or a fight –is just a silly and irresponsible excuse?
May I suggest that AI open an investigation into their mistakes regaring the human rights issues in Thailand since 2006?Something seriously wrong with AI, starting from their local people and reps in Thailand, like Mr. Zawacki and leading Thai human rights activists, to the AI people in London.
Or AI cannot admit mistake because AI is to big and too important to the world to admit a mistake?
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70 Jayzee // Nov 29, 2011 at 6:33 am
The LM laws are self-fulfilling – one could argue that even talk of reform is, in itself, a violation of the law.
It has, of course, infiltrated and contaminated the entire education system – to the point where the more educated the person, seemingly the more stupid they become. As the succession draws ever closer, expect the situation to become worse, as Thailand tries to eat itself.
We may yet see Thai political refugees (if there is anybody left to think for themselves) seeking sanctuary in Burma …
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71 tom hoy // Nov 29, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Apart from the sentencing of people to long jail terms for speaking their thoughts, one of the worst results of LM legislation and the hysteria that its proponents have whipped up around commenting on it is the way in which public debate on the subject is thwarted, discouraged and deformed.
The Bangkok Post has listed as one of its “most viewed” articles this http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/267732/facebook-like-button-may-bring-lese-majeste-charge-against-users and, to their credit, have recently published an editorial and a commentary criticizing the latest use of the LM laws. But unlike other Bangkok Post articles there is no reader commentary on these articles. This is the “most viewed” article but readers cannot be trusted to talk about it. The Bangkok Post appears to have a policy of not allowing comments on LM articles just as during the election campaign they appeared to have a policy of not allowing any comment on any statement made by General Prayuth.
It would be good of the Bangkok Post to explicitly state the fact that they are not allowing comments and the reasons for this so that readers understand exactly what type of democracy Thailand is becoming.
On the plus side though, the Post have allowed comment in their Letters section here http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/268188/details-key-to-verdict.
If the Nation has even reported on the issue of Ah Kong, I’ve completely missed it.
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72 Nos // Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Say, UK, The Netherlands and Denmark beign exceptions to the case, most Euro countries have no better track record than Thailand, co come to that Cambodia, Laos, Burma or Malaysia
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73 Marteau // Dec 2, 2011 at 1:57 am
Tom Hoy @36 is right. The penalties for lese majeste were sharply increased by a Thai government in the past without any public expression by the King to the effect that the earlier penalties were insufficient. Demanding that HMK should directly involve himself in the law making process today to reform Section 112 is ludicrous. He has already publicly expressed the view that he wants to be open to criticism. It is up to the Yingluck and its legal expert, Chalern Yoobamrung, to pick up the ball and run with it.
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74 Ralph Kramden // Dec 2, 2011 at 9:04 am
If the king is so opposed to LM, why is it that LM expands under the most royalist of governments? Thanin was a privy councillor. So was Surayud. And there is little doubt that Abhisit did the palace’s work. All the reference to the king’s speech back when is dissembling nonsense.
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75 Tarrin // Dec 2, 2011 at 10:59 am
Marteau – 71
I didn’t want to go into detail but his speech was not the disapproval of 112 but rather a threat.
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76 CT // Dec 2, 2011 at 12:23 pm
I have said again and again that anybody who thinks the K is opposed to LM should reconsider their stance. The final stage of the legislative process in Thailand (and most countries which have the Monarchy) is that the Monarch needs to ‘sign’ (the legal term is “give royal assent”) for the law to have effect. Thus, any law which the Monarch refuses to sign will never become law.
If the King is so opposed to LM, why did he sign to approve the law when Tanin Kraivixien increased the penalty of LM to fifteen years? Why did he sign to approve the law when the Military Dictatorship government eradicated the clause “criticism of the Monarch is allowed for reasons of upholding the Constitution and democracy”? What one says and what one does has to be consonant with each other. If the King says “I believe I should be criticised”, then what he did is he approved to increase penalty for LM and eliminated the opportunity for one to criticise him for political reasons, then it is just hypocritical. Thai people say this kind of conduct is “มือถือสาก ปากถือศีล” (A person who preaches peace and morality, while holding a pestle, ready to smash anyone at the same time).
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77 A.B. Highsitter // Dec 2, 2011 at 3:42 pm
re alleged openness to criticism, perhaps it should properly be regarded as no more an attempt at sending a “message” to evil toxin and hence insincere politicing?
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78 arealname // Dec 4, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@Tarrin #73: could you, or anyone else please point me to an article or comment which elucidates this?
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79 Tarrin // Dec 4, 2011 at 9:21 pm
Arealname -73
There are people who have made comment about his speech troughout newmandala, you can hunt for it, I think its in one of the article about 112
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80 Cliff Sloane // Dec 5, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@ arealname 76:
In your searches, make sure to include the name Thaksin. If I recall, the comments were not about 112 per se, but a prelude to comments about Khun Thaksin. Tarrin, do I have that right?
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81 Frank G Anderson // Dec 5, 2011 at 2:51 pm
These sentences are defamation against humanity. They are nothing short of malice with intent to subdue, nothing short of hatred for differences in belief. For anyone who was trying to figure out what kind of political direction Thailand was going to take, we now have a good idea.
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82 Frank G Anderson // Dec 5, 2011 at 3:02 pm
I had not brought the matter up clearly in the past, if I recall correctly, but this constant barrage of loyalty and inherent grace and so on is not merely one of lauding another but of lauding oneself – that is, Thais have long believed (and been falsely led to believe and to falsely lead others to believe) that their inherent “culture” or “nature” or “Thainess” is itself semi-divine, a gift from God that makes them special and unique in ways that can not be understood by anyone other than a loyal Thai. The qualities of the monarchy are, in many senses, imbued by Thais to place themselves upon a pedestal of self-wonder and self-aggrandizement. As Nick and others have observed, this is not an incidental characteristic of state overlording of Thai society but an intentional, ruthless and merciless trait by control freaks who do not have any inclination to compromise.
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83 Ricky // Dec 11, 2011 at 11:47 am
Arkong has not been forgotten in Chiang Mai.
Last night Saturday 10th December a silver pickup truck with a Bangkok number plate, and emblazoned on all sides with hand written signs in Thai such as Free Ahkong and Freedom in English at the front, was seen driving along the main street and around the Chiang Mai moat.
Are there any other public displays against 112 taking place elsewhere?
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84 Fed Up // Dec 11, 2011 at 7:28 pm
So one has to ask, with all the condemnation of Article 112 in the West, when will free democracies start to exact actual sanctions upon Thailand?
Actions speak louder than words. The time for frank discussion seems to have been exausted.
Perhaps, sanctions of some sort are in order. Like those against other societies that do not respect the rights of citizens.
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85 Heather Kai // Dec 17, 2011 at 12:28 am
I was part of a group of English travellers who were planning a trip to Thailand, as the commenter above notes, boycotts are setting in, from the western side, a group of 11 of us took the decision not to go to Thailand to protest at Amphon and the other lese mageste victims, treatment, we will not consider going until they are all released.
The case of Amphon is in the western media now and the whole lese mageste issue, we don’t have perfect democracy in the west, maybe the treatment of the likes of Julian Assange could even suggest there is some hypocrisy in condemning a nation over its human rights abuses when they go on everywhere, but this poor grand-dad has touched a raw nerve. People are just not going to head over there while they see cases like this and given Thailand’s dependence on tourists, this could become an economic as well as ethical dilemma.
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86 Boycott Supporter // Dec 17, 2011 at 2:20 am
Heather, good for you. I used to say that I wouldn’t go to Burma until they released Aung Sang Su Chi and finally one day they released her. I went to Burma and had a great time. Just tourist stuff.
Start a movement, a tourist boycott of Thailand until Arkong is free.
I encourage you to write to your local newspaper editors and perhaps it can snowball into a movement.
Certainly this case is clearly a gross miscarage of justice.
An old man who no one can prove has ever sent an SMS is convicted because he cant prove he didn’t do it.
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87 Ethan // Dec 17, 2011 at 2:33 am
Tourist Authority Thailand doesn’t give a rat’s ass about people from the liberal democracies of UK, Europe, Australia and North America choosing to not visit Thailand for their holidays.
Tourist Authority Thailand’s Number One market these days is mainland China, 1 & 1/2 million year now I think. Number Two, India with over 750,000/year and growing, Number Three and the fastest growing and also highest spend rate per day by far market, single Islamic males from Iran and the Gulf Arab States who visit Thailand to engage in enormous amounts of non-stop sex with overweight Thai females and Thai ladyboys. Followed by Malaysia which sends hundred of thousands of males to the Hat Yai and the Far South every weekend for even more sex, drugs and rock ‘n roll, Russia, only 8 hours away and minus 30 degrees, and the old stalwarts, Korea and Japan.
And, trust me, none of the above groups devote a single brain cell to the political situation in Thailand, much less issues such as Freedom of Expression, Rule of Law, Justice System, Corruption, etc.
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88 Lonnie Ditcher // Dec 17, 2011 at 5:57 am
I am boycotting Thai holidays, maybe we need a facebook page for it
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89 M. Xan Tok // Dec 17, 2011 at 8:27 am
Thailand needs to look overseas to see how other monarchies interact with their public in matters of debate and dissent.
In the UK, there is open debate and criticism of the British Monarchy, however the majority of British regard themselves as pro-royalist, even following crisies of faith such as the Death of Princess Diana the Monarchy survives and I believe it always will.
Debate, mockery, parody and sarcasm get directed at the Queen and her family by a few, and more often or not, though there is no legal penalty, the contempt and displeasure of other British people is enough to shame or hush those critics, or to make them accept that they seem to be a minority.
The British monarchy has ridden out many storms because it responds to the times, this is what the Thai monarchy must do as the king himself has said he should not be above criticism.
Lese Mageste seems nothing more than a ploy by elites and powerful to shush dissent, and what a tragedy cases like Akong’s are only damaging the image of a monarch who is not the one filing these corrupt charges.
I hope the Thai monarchy looks towards more open monarchies of places like Britain Japan and even Cambodia, to see where they can go right. The biggest act of lese mageste, and probably one charge that could be laid at those who bring charges, is that the King is seen are a mere object for bringing charges, I can think of no greater insult to such a noble man.
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90 Frank G Anderson // Dec 19, 2011 at 6:55 pm
A bit in the past, but pertinent suggestions…
From: No. TRCT. /2011
Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT), Government Complex, Commemorating His Majesty B Building, 5th Floor, Parking House,
Chaengwattana Road, Lak Si, Bangkok 10210
September 2011…………………..
Yours sincerely,
Kanit Nanakorn
(Prof. Kanit Nanakorn)
Chairman Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand
Secretariat
TRCT Office
Tel: 0 2141 3696
Fax: 0 2143 8935
6. TRCT is concerned with the situation pertaining to the prosecution of cases concerning the lèse majesté under Section 112 of Criminal Code and Computer Related Crime Act B.E. 2550 (2007), which apparently increase in terms of number of cases, that it could have political impact. TRCT believes that although the government has the obligation to vigorously protect the monarchy highly regarded by Thai people with the utmost
reverence from being defamed and violated by inappropriate behaviors and acts, the use of measures of criminal prosecution regardless of the criminal policy and the control guidelines for proper enforcement can implicate complicated effects at both the national level during the political conflict and the international level which places importance on the freedom of expression.
At present, the political development and the enforcement of lèse majesté in Thailand phenomenally become the issues of interest for the United Nations, international organizations relating to human rights, and several countries.
Consequently, TRCT conceives the use of lèse majesté during this period is directly related to political conflict inside the country. The appropriate solution of this problem will result in a positive effect to the monarchy and play a significant role in mitigating the conflict of the country to help achieve reconciliation. In this respect, TRCT is of the opinion that it should be proceeded as follows:
Protect monarchy but don’t be excessive
6.1 In this sensitive situation, TRCT opines that the government must proceed in every way by taking cognizance of the final goal, which is the protection and respectfulness of the monarchy to maintain its status with the most exalted honor. The government should strictly and stringently proceed against those who defame and violate with malice against the monarchy but should not excessively impose criminal measures without direction and regard to the sensitivity of the case, which could subsequently affect the monarchy domestically and internationally.
Stakeholders to be invited to share opinions and develop mutually acceptable solutions
6.2 All parties involved in the conflict must proceed in every way to express their reverence to hold the monarchy above political conflict and stop referring to the monarchy for political advantage either directly or indirectly. A pertinent solution of the problem at its root cause could be done by the serious discussion among relevant politicians, political parties, and political groups to determine appropriate measures which will result in holding the revered monarchy above political conflict.
Better overall categorization and case definition
6.3 The government should provide for the unity and integration of agencies involving the enforcement of law concerning lèse majesté cases. They should have a mechanism with a capability to determine appropriate criminal policy and to categorize the cases by considering the degree of the behavior, intention, motivation for the commission, status of the perpetrator, and overall context of the situation leading to the commission.
The actual problem situation in the Thai society in the present time should be taken into consideration that the political conflict like this has never happened before as there is an attempt to take the unfaithfulness against the monarchy as a political issue. All parties must essentially take into account the highest advantage from presenting the utmost honor to the monarchy.
Public interest aspect, but not addressing international public interest
6.4 With regard to the prosecution of lèse majesté cases, the prosecutor, who has an important role in using discretion whether to prosecute or not, should put emphasis on a means for ordering cases by using discretion (Opportunity Principle), which is a universal power of the prosecutor. Although there is adequate evidence for prosecution order, the prosecutor must place importance on weighing the advantages and disadvantages of the prosecution, taking into account the public interest in essence. In this case, the issue the prosecutor must consider is which way between to order prosecution and not to order prosecution is highly beneficial for protecting and presenting the honor appropriately to the monarchy. This means is used in the countries which have the monarchy such as the Netherlands.
Temporary release of accused persons and defendants
6.5 The government should arrange for the temporary release of accused persons and defendants in lèse majesté cases since the severe accusation is not a legal reason for denying the right to temporary release of accused persons and defendants, which is the fundamental right under the law. This could be seen in the case that the court has granted the temporary release in other cases which have a higher scale of punishment than the lèse majesté case such as a charge of murder, which the court has usually granted the temporary release, which is a fundamental right.
Review lese majesté cases related to political matters
6.6 The government should consider reviewing the prosecution of cases which expand the issue of lèse majesté law to a large extent during the political conflict such as the accusation and the propaganda on the conspiracy to “overthrow the monarchy”. In this respect, the interpretation of the law might be too broad to affect the reconciliation in the nation and adversely affect the protection of the monarchy. The further prosecution must be undertaken by considering the explicit evidence regarding specific individual behaviors to prove guilt in accordance with the rule of law.
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91 Ricky // Jan 5, 2012 at 1:11 am
At New Year the King gave a television address. I was in a restaurant in Pimai, Korat. Things were quiet but there were 3-4 tables. None of the patrons nor any of the staff took the slightest bit of notice.
So how does this square with the quote above ?
” the monarchy highly regarded by Thai people with the utmost reverence “
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92 Ralph Kramden // Jan 5, 2012 at 9:13 am
A good point Ricky. I have noticed several times that some people simply turn off their televisions when the royal news comes on each evening or change channels.
Perhaps related, it is my impression that fewer people are stopping when the national anthem is played in public places.
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93 CT // Jan 5, 2012 at 10:38 am
It depends on the people I guess. Many of the Salims and yellow still want to watch Royal news. When they see the King on TV speaking, even though most of the times what he said was completely incomprehensible, they just watch and cry and feel happy. However, many of my ‘Red’ friends (including their parents) would simply turn off the TV. One of my very long time neighbours (we are good friends since pre school) is Red and her entire family is Red. Her dad and mum in particular are very anti-Royal. They told me that every time they see the Royals’ faces on TV, they feel like wanting to vomit!
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94 JohnH // Jan 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Yes, watching Thai TV certainly produces a few surprises. Here’s one from yesterday, courtesy of PBS.
Before the 7pm news, PBS broadcasts different 5 minutes cartoons devoted to HM achievements, Thai culture, being Thai and so on.
Last night’s didactic instruction was certainly instructional, in a strangely sinister, even freakish kind of way.
Here’s the synopsis:
A wise uncle, teaching his awe struck young charges, introduces a ‘farang’ (country of origin unspecified) who – on listening to the wiseman’s words – is so impressed by a certain someone’s lifetime achievements decides that he wants to become Thai.
Mmm…
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95 CT // Jan 5, 2012 at 7:10 pm
@JohnH,
I have no idea if there is a farang who wants to become a Thai citizen.
However, I can assure you that there are many Thais who want to become a ‘farang’. I live in a country where there are many Thais who have immigrated from Thailand, and I can assure you that the vast majority of the Thais (if not 100%) I have spoken with in this country “want” to have the right to ‘live and work’ in this country. And after those people have gained such rights, they next thing they want is the ‘citizenship’ of this country. When they have a chance to apply to become one, they all do.
So to advertise it on TV that there is ONE farang who wants to become a Thai, while the truth (which needs no advertisement) is there are plenty of Thais who want to become farangs…is really a pathetic attempt to convince Thai people that Thailand is more pleasant to live than western countries.
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96 Tarrin // Jan 5, 2012 at 7:51 pm
JohnH -94
Replace the word “certain someone’s life” with Kim Jong Il or Kim Il Sung and the word “Thai” with “(North) Korean” then you have this disturbing realization that Thailand is not much different from a member of the “Axis of Evil”
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97 JohnH // Jan 5, 2012 at 8:27 pm
CT @ 95
A little clarification may help. The cartoon series sanctions and glorifies every aspect of what it means to be Thai and is on every evening before the news. PBS is a state run TV company, formerly called iTV.
Yes, the cartoon is clearly a very disturbing mixture of moralizing and wishful thinking on behalf of the makers and the string pullers behind or above them.
To these people and – I imagine – the intended audience, the token farang is meant to be symbolic of everyone, Thai, farang or other. Blind adherence and unquestioning obedience.
Although I sincerely hope not.
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98 Shane Tarr // Jan 6, 2012 at 10:00 am
To those of you who seek solace in international human rights organizations being able to effectively influence governments or public opinion I ask to what extent has AI or HRW really been effective? I don’t ask this just in relation to Thailand but there are numerous examples from around the world where in the final analysis not much notice is taken of such organizations (e.g. look at Timor Leste when it was invaded and occupied by Indonesia. Nothiong wrong with HR lobby groups but don’t expect much from them!
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99 Frank G Anderson // Jan 6, 2012 at 10:23 am
Constant attention, continued awareness, frequent reminders, reiteration of wrongs done and by whom, urging of accountability…these are some of the byproducts of hard-work by these human rights organizations. Actually getting the prey of dictators out of prison is another issue. Look at Burma. And before that, South Africa. And before that, two similar issues still not resolved – the people of Palestine and the Native American.
It is unfortunate and even tragic in some respects that appointments to positions of honor are political, such as Thailand’s position on the UN Human Rights council. Political positions are part of the human equation, though, and preventing them is pretty tough. This is another task of those NGOs but they need public awareness and commitment.
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100 Shane Tarr // Jan 6, 2012 at 10:49 am
I don’t think AI or HRW were responsible for the end of apartheid in South Africa…in fact in the end the refusal of sporting teams to play in South Africa (notably cricket both of which were/are dear to the hearts of at least White South African males) arguably had more of an impact. Similarly in Myanmar aka Burma I would hazard a guess but realpolitiks has had more to do with perceived changes there. And in a place like Vietnam HR organizations have minimal or no impact on human rights. Stil I stand to be corrected if it can be demonstrated that the tireless campaigns of HR organizations do have real impacts.
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101 Andrew Spooner // Jan 6, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Shane
If AI and HRW come out and say something it helps shapes the perception of what is going on in Thailand.
So far they seem to have been wilfully misleading the international community on the situation in Thailand and also peddling misrepresentations and, at times, complete lies.
It doesn’t mean that if AI/HRW start actually doing their jobs everything in Thailand will suddenly be hunky dory – only a naif would think that.
But if they did the kind of governments that are supplying the Thai military and other anti-democratic forces with arms and access to markets etc would have difficult questions to answer.
It all helps.
Telling lies just helps perpetuate things.
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102 Srithanonchai // Feb 28, 2012 at 8:15 pm
Lese Majeste Laws
Surachai convicted for lese majeste
The Nation February 28, 2012 12:58 pm
Surachai convicted for lese majeste
The Criminal Court on Tuesday found red-shirt leader Surachai Danwattananusorn, or Sae Dan, guilty of royal insult.
The court sentenced him to serve a total of 7.5 years in jail for three counts of lese majeste.
Red Siam Group leader Surachai’s original sentencing was 15 years but the court cited his confession as grounds for leniency to halve his jail term.
The verdict was based on Surachai’s three rally speeches in Udon Thani, Chiang Mai and Bangkok in 2010.
The defence team said Surachai will seek a royal pardon.
Earlier Surachai vowed to begin a hunger strike if he is not moved to the new detention centre for political prisoners in Bangkok’s Lak Si district.
His wife, Pranee, quoted Surachai, 69, as saying he was disheartened by the fact that he and another red shirt lese majeste detainee, Somyos Prueksakasem-suk, were not regarded as political prisoners.
Forty-seven red shirts sentenced for crimes related to the April-May 2010 clashes were moved to the new detention centre on Tuesday. However, none of the 10 or so known lese-majeste detainees have been transferred despite a proposal by the Truth for Reconciliation Committee of Thailand (TRCT). The government said it would consult with the TRCT.
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