Some interesting commentary on farang in general and New Mandala in particular from the Thai-Oz News (Vol 22, Issue 570 November 16-29 2011):
Foreigners are all good except…
By….Somchai Menyaem (สมชาย เม่นแย้ม)
It is normal that people would think they are better than others. Especially those who has never been trained will even think they are much better than others and trashed other people’s ideas under their feet. The Buddha taught that “human beings who are trained are excellent”. What is this training? It is the training to maintain three holy principles or “Traisikha”. The are sila, samadhi, and panya (self-restraint, consciousness, and wisdom).
To explain to foreigners who don’t know much about Buddhism about Sila, it is the training to restrain one’s mind. When a person knows how to calm their mind and body, they can walk with cares not kicking anybody’s feet. When a person knows how to calm his/her mind, he/she may be aware that people even in the same society think, act and speak differently. People from different societies are even further distinctive. If a person has sila, he/she will easily attain samadhi and panya which will help develop his/her understanding in many problems including solutions to them.
Farang seem to be more intelligent than others. It is because of their historical process that experienced human rights abuse, slavery, discrimination against other human fellows as low class animals. They have taken advantage in many forms, including inventing capitalism that takes advantage from the poor. Farang therefore know how to exploit others as well as protecting their evil acts.
Karl Marx used to say that every society has overlapping aspects from its past. No single society can jump ahead without its traces. We thus can still see farang with colonial thinking remnants in many societies even in the academe.
Charles Darwin who wrote Origin of Species that evoked racism in the Western world, said that the white race has the most potential to attain progress beyond the yellow and black. Karl Marx also echoed this line of argument and equated the West with progress and the East with backwardness.
The arrogance of being superior than the yellow and the black, reflected in their attempt to take advantage economically in many parts of the world as well as looking down on other races’ ideal in the past. Farang went to Siam and tried to dictate what Siam should do. For instance, Mr and Mrs Eddies, American missionaries from New York tried to persuade King Rama IV to convert to Christianity when he was still a prince and was ordained as an abbot at Wat Bowonniwet. These missionaries had no knowledge of other religions, therefore, they were narrow minded criticising others including Buddhism that has an ultimate goal of attaining nirvana instead of reuniting with God.
King Rama IV who established Dhammayut Sect for purifying the then degenerating Buddhism in Siam, had a correspondence with Mrs Eddie that Protestant missionaries were different from the Catholic counterparts in their lack of knowledge of other religions. They thus criticised others religions wrongly.
Those farang like Mr and Mrs Eddie can still be seen as historical remnants in Australia such as those who run New Mandala website under the College of Asia and the Pacific at the ANU. This website always posts issues about Thailand and the monarchy. With particular interest in the monarchy, it has attacked Thai legal system regarding lese majeste law on the ground of democratic rights issues. This is similar to the way in which the West went to Siam 500 years ago and tried to attack Thai ways of life and beliefs based on their shallow understandings.
These people have a prejudice against other people’s ideas. They lack “sila” or the disciplines of life. When they believe something and want others to follow without any principle. Some people are high educated with a doctoral degree, but have no wisdom. Instead of proposing their ideas with a proper psychological means, they insult two prominent persons who are called “father” and “mother” by people around the kingdom. What these people can do are speaking about them abusively and persuading other silly readers to do the same. They do it cowardly and just to serve their stupidity; that’s all. They can’t change other people’s mind but increase enemies everyday instead. They don’t know that the boiling water has accumulated a high degree of heat for a while. When there is a leap from quality to quantity, a new quality will emerge. At that time, they will know what are the results of their actions.
Many may wonder if ANU cannot control the code of conduct of this website when it is run under the university. This website is under the College of Asia and the Pacific which has its goal as “our mission is to lead Australia’s intellectual engagement with Asia and the Pacific through research, teaching and contribution to public debate. There is no single statement for promoting “mutual understanding” which may be a loophole for some people to abuse and serve their evil desire happily. The university should have realised that having this loophole for some people to use for their intellectual masturbation by attacking other countries that have good relations with Australia may lead to future conflict. This is Farang’s characteristics, always claiming academic freedom. But if they are attacked back, they will be extremely vexed.
Farang are good at accepting their own people’s ideas but not the ideas of other races or nations. They don’t like to tailor shoes to fit people’s feet but prefer to cut others’ feet to fit their shoes.
A real gem. Yesserreee!
“Farang are good at accepting their own people’s ideas but not the ideas of other races or nations. They don’t like to tailor shoes to fit people’s feet but prefer to cut others’ feet to fit their shoes.”
I guess this means Thailand’s lese majeste regime is more flexible than evil farang’s misguided view of the universe?
Is it not similar to cutting off people’s feet to shackle them then in chains because they offended someone with a shamelessly thin skin?
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So what’s new? Royalists say this kind of thing all the time. The really interesting stuff is on ASTV where Thais who think differently are attacked in the most base ways. So much for all the Buddhism….
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Let’s not lose track of the real problem here. Some people do not want mother and father to be subject to criticism. Let us bring discussion into the open and let people decide for themselves where they stand on this issue. Don’t be afraid of comments from farangs or Thais. Discussion does not cause problems. Efforts to create taboo subjects beyond rational dialogue will not help Thailand to progress.
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I agree with ynot. Although the author of the letter picks lots of the low-hanging, ‘strange fruit’ of hypocrisy and intolerance in farang history, when I get to end I cannot help but notice the argument to ‘control’ the discussion. I may have missed it but…
… I have never noted anyone insulting ‘two prominent persons who are called “father” and “mother” by people around the kingdom’, although I have noticed lots of people exposing the hypocrisy and terrorist tactics of their self-appointed priesthood.
The Islamic Taleban create taboo subjects that will bear no discussion, and the Xtian and Jewish Taleban do as well. Not having a ‘Heavenly Father’ whose will to interpret, whose offenders to punish, the Thai Taleban create an earthy, “Heavenly Father”, one who objected to such characterizations of himself in his ‘birthday speech’ of 2005 I might add, and yet they continue to use him as their idol whose will they alone may interpret, and to punish those they alone may deem to be his offenders.
It’s the same thing wherever and whenever a sacred talisman is set up by a priestly class… in the West we presently have the Law of Free Market for Capital… one whose wisdom, as divined and relayed to the people by the priesthood, cannot be questioned but whose transgression must be punished.
Depending on the strength of the hold of the belief system on the populace it is meant to control the punishment for heretical acts may range from simple ridicule, shunning, or banishment to brutal forms of execution meant to cause the most ‘exquisite’ pain and to elicit the most pitiful reactions from those executed, see the Dominican Inquisitors in Spain, all to enforce the ‘respect’ for the cult among the populace. That is to terrorize them into obedience.
It is not a stretch to compare the various Taleban of Western religious history and the Buddhist Taleban of Thailand, in my opinion. There are striking correspondences. It’s not that farang cannot uderstand the Thai mind or culture, it’s that we understand it all too well.
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I do not know why these people treat the RF members as their parents and use the rationale to back up LM.
Haven’t you ever criticized your own parents?
Yes, I love my mum and dad.
Yes, I am Thai.
But, I am happy for my parents to be criticized!
I have criticized them a lot but they did not change.
It will save me time if other people can do it for me.
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5555++++
“It is the training to maintain three holy principles or “Traisikha”. The are sila, samadhi, and panya (self-restraint, consciousness, and wisdom)…”
Mmmmm… So it was ‘consciousness and wisdom’ that turned Taksin into a Squarehead, continually slandered and ridiculed Samak even when he was dying of cancer, found ways to justify killing over 90 people in April/May 2010, and, a couple of weeks ago put a sick 61 year man in jail for comitting LM…
If these are the results of ‘trained’ conscious minds exercising self-restraint I dread to think what the results of senseless stupid ones are…
I wonder how long it will be before a copy of this appears in my inbox. One thing Thais with ‘wisdom’ and ‘self restraint’ seem to be very good at is forwarding these kind of opinion pieces (which the recievers/readers often take as being absolute fact…) and spreading them around…
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Perhaps a better grasp of English would have helped, however the real problem is that a few valid points makes not a compelling philosophical treatise.
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We Thais need to stop believing in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. And we also need to stop arresting and throwing into our nasty prisons anyone, farang or Thai, who doesn’t believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
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Without entering in the debate about the fairness or unfairness of the sentences of Khun Arkong or Mr Joe Gordon , something that in the opinion piece is not discussed at all, we can see how the whole article is understandable only within the hegemonic discourse of “Thainess” as defined by scholars as Saichol Sattayanurak, Thongchai Winichakul or Michael K. Connors. According to them, “Thainess” is the elite-incensing discourse at the base of the hierarchical, unfair and violent structure of Thai society. Such pro-elite narrative has been constructed by the elite itself and then successfully injected into the broad public through decades of indoctrination, resulting in a society where sections of subaltern classes enthusiastically support the very structure which determines their own subalternity. The opinion piece signed by Khun Somchai Menyaem fits weel into this royalist and ultra-Nationalist ideology of Thainess. The author follows a well known path:
1) build a cultural difference between 2 constructed categories: “farang” (a broad unclear category of non-Thai) and “Thai”. It is unclear here if the two categories and the two characteristics attached to them (“Farang’s characteristics” and Thai characteristics) are cultural or genetic. I don’t think they can be genetic, because both “farang” and “Thai” are hardly considerable pure races. So, if they are cultural, i.e. manmade by someone, this means they can be learned, taught, contested, opinioned, changed. As the Lord Buddha said, “nothing ever remains the same”. (Also “farang” philosopher Heraclitus, pretty much at the same time, was saying such things as “there is nothing constant but change”, or “everything flows, nothing stands still”). By the way, Khun Somchai is accusing New Mandala (NM) of lack of understanding and colonial thinking which comes from NM “non-Thainess” and NM background of “farang” colonial history. But what about Thai critiques as Dr Pavin Chachavalpongpun? Have they been contaminated by foreign non-Thainess while living abroad? Have they lost their “Thainess”? If “Thainess” is cultural, should they be considered “farang” by now?
2) frame the discourse within the constructed Bangkok history. Unfortunately for Khun Somchai, Bangkok-made history is not necessarily the real history. In poor words, the Bangkok-made history is a simplistic history where all good comes from the Royal Palace and all evils come from abroad. This operation has been already criticized by academics as Thongchai Winichakul (Siam Mapped, 1994). But following elite-constructed mainstream history, Khun Somchai writes of “farang with colonial thinking remnants”. Actually, first, it is academically problematic to say that each “farang” has a colonial history behind (what about a Swiss, Finnish, Slovenian, Luxembourger, Polish or Albanian “farang”?); second, it is academically problematic to demonstrate that all “farang” opinions are contaminated by such “colonial background”; and, third, Khun Somchai ignores that Thongchai explained how Siam and France “were rival expansionists contesting for the same prey” (Siam Mapped, p. 148). Therefore, Khun Somchai should be careful… “colonial thinking remnants” may be inside himself too! Ironically for Khun Somchai, the difference between Bangkok and Paris, it seems to me, is that since then Paris left its colonies and France official history condemned colonialism. In the case of Bangkok, instead, I don’t think the army and police is going to withdraw from Pattani any soon, nor is mainstream history going to recognize the “voice of those tiny states which were never born later as nations” (ibid., p. 147).
Moreover, Khun Somchai says: “Farang… historical process that experienced human rights abuse, slavery, discrimination against other human fellows as low class animals. ” In reality, obviously and undeniably, Thai history experienced HR abuses, slavery and discrimination too. (Note that, paradoxically, Khun Somchai’s critique is against “farang” who stance against violation of HR in Thailand! But he does so by justifying Thai HR abuses with Thai exceptionalism while at the same time by accusing “farang… historical process that experienced HR abuse”!!)
Again: “Farang therefore know how to exploit others.” In reality, exploitation existed and exists in Thailand too. For example, Sakdina Chatrakul Na Ayudhaya writes that “the lack of continuity in democratic rule in Thailand resulted in the maintenance of a conservative political culture where values concerning freedom and equality of human beings in society are not widely accepted” (in “The Thai Labour Movement”, October 2010). To Khun Sakdina, “exploitation” of Thai workers come exactly from the Thai conservative tradition, where HR are not accepted and therefore “discrimination” is accepted. In Khun Somchai’s eyes, Khun Sakdina must be one more “Thai” turned “farang”.
3) consider non-nationals unable to understand national issues and culture as well as all nationals supposedly do (“foreigners who don’t know much about Buddhism”). Is Khun Somchai sure that the problem of NM lack of “mind restrain” and “calm of mind” comes from NM ignorance of Buddhism? So how come that Khun Somchai, which we take for granted is such a great connoisseur of Buddhism to be able to teach it to others, fails into the same trap of insulting other human beings (“cowardly”, “stupid”, “have no wisdom”, “intellectual masturbation”) while the Lord Buddha himself place the “right speech” at the cornerstone of his Doctrine?
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I don’t want to defend European colonialism, and I will not, as I too am very critical of European colonialism, but at the same time it should be remembered that the Siamese also have a long history of discriminating against others peoples, including the Lao, Khmer and various ethnic minorities. Thais often think about the ways Europeans tried to dominate them, but rarely do they recognise that they too have often been guilty of discriminating against others, many of whom think of the Thais as the neighbourhood bully.
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This article together with the complete newspaper is available online at
http://issuu.com/thaiads/docs/thaioz_issue570
There we can see that this article is without explanation accompanied by photos from the Kings 60th anniversary celebrations in 2006, when “nearly one million Thais wearing yellow shirts flocked into Bangkok for the King’s first audience in six years”
Some nice pics of Tong Daeng on the next page also.
Caution : When first linking to http://www.thaioz.com.au my anti-virus sw disabled a high risk malicious cookie from the site :-O Be prepared. Maybe they can detect us NM readers from afar
So will NM respond to ThaiOz with a reasoned rebuttal of this rather muddled attack on NM & ANU ?
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I’m no farang, which made this article even funnier since I’m a regular here. So if a Thai (with “Sila” whatever that is) criticized another Thai’s idea, is it acceptable then?
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I have to draw attention to one very important aspect of farang evil ways forgotten in the essay. Certainly, farang regard themselves as superior to other races. One hidden means to maintain a grip not only on the people and their resources, but even more so over their thinking, is to lure the poor natives to come into their schools and universities for intensified brain-washing. The poor victims come home like zombies, completely alienated. They lost their moral virtues and are unable to continue with a decent Thai life. How successful they are in this is that the victims even pay these universities that insult their home-cultures, values, norms and beliefs a considerable amount of money!
The Thai have to become aware again about their own cultural roots and strength and focus on what is important for them, not on farang materialism, moral decadence etc. Instead of going to foreign schools and universities like ANU it would be far better to go into the monasteries, temple schools and learn about what really counts for a successful life!
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What a terrible understanding of Darwin…and Marx, and, well…
(I was also curious who translated this from Thai???)
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“Charles Darwin who wrote Origin of Species that evoked racism in the Western world, said that the white race has the most potential to attain progress beyond the yellow and black.”
– huh? Darwin said no such thing.
Mr. Somchai– please go back and re-read Darwin’s texts.
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I hate this ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ relativity, Somchai is simply playing the ideological role of the ‘thai’ created through nationalistic policy and cultural indoctrination in opposition and defense against the other, farang, colonialist ect. While critiquing the “farang” about how they generalize about Thai society, he;s ironically doing the same thing by using ‘farang’ to describe an entire demographic of people and there views, an extreme generalization. Of course – many colonial powers committed terrible acts in the past, as did the thai government and even the royalty, but thats all it should be, history and we should learn from it, instead of let it direct our opinions in bitter resentment like an old family feud. I think were entering into an exciting new age of history, or one could say ‘the end of history’ like fukuyama, where a new individual is emerging, the globalized ‘person’ whom now has the power to free him or herself from the chains of history, a category somchai obviously doesn’t fall under, enabling him/her to think morally unconstrained by the past.
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I think the racial aspect is being twisted. “Certainly, farang regard themselves as superior to other races.” Blanket and invalid. Same as saying all Thais do the same thing – this might be closer to fact but is still untrue.
However, Thais have been inculcated with the idea – and have been conditioned to adopt a national pastime of enshrining one another with it – that they are superior and unique; further, that they possess the same properties imbued in the parental regime – that is, they are near-perfect, unique and above criticism. Why else park on both sides of a narrow road and block off a full lane of traffic? Why else are they afraid of speaking to one another directly lest violence break out over a relatively simple act of disregard for the rest of society? Why else must they make laws prohibiting criticism, and compound that by not providing protection to anyone from police and court action should they rightly feel they have a legitimate right to speak? The current system is made for control, not decency. It is maintained for separation, not for homogeneity. It is protected so it does not change, not to protect anyone other than those who stand above the rest.
Xenophobia is not the sole right of foreigners…or natives. Ignorance is widespread and because skin color and culture apparently differentiate the stupid from the knowing, or the “true Thai” from the “not real” one does not mean that is true.
Over the long term, conformity and retention of ancient ways is what is being pitted against progressive thinking and the prohibited-in-Thailand (and by Thai law around the earth!) right to self-determination. Some day we will not easily find artisans who compare with those of today. At the moment, though, they are being preserved by archaic anti-democratic forces that want to preserve one thing above all else – their own power. That they have woven that power through a sacred fabric is a grievous fault and grievously will be people of Thailand keep answering for it.
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Interesting to see the similarity in the “us” vs “them” in Thailand and in Malaysia.
In Thailand it is enlightened Buddhist vs crude farangs.
In Malaysia, the same narrative is provided by the ruling party (UMNO Muslims) against anyone who demands for the rule of law or human rights and freedom.
To UMNO, these people are inevitably supported by “farangs” = decadent Western powers, Zionists, Christians, Gays/Lesbians, who promote human rights and freedom to destroy the Malay institutions of Islam, the Malay Royalty, the Malay language.
How ironic!
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Andrew,
perhaps you could extend an invitation to K. Somchai to debate his article on NM.
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NM has been paid a great compliment to be compared with Darwin.
Now for a Farang criticism of Thailand. More than 60 years ago a pleasant and promising young man, well educated in Switzerland was invited to take the throne of Thailand. After 60 years of grovelling and corruption from upper-class Thais, he now heads an institution whose political party is repeatedly rejected at elections by the majority of Thais. The institution retains its political power by using brute military force against its own people, and by imprisoning those who dare to speak of liberating their country from its clutches.
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“a little education is a dangerous thing”
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Certainly a lot of Thais worship farangs and the ground they walk on. These Thais feel excessively proud when farangs are brought in as their advisers—the attitude they would not entertain toward Cambodians, Laotians, Malays, or Burmans.
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“Farang are good at accepting their own people’s ideas but not the ideas of other races or nations.”
What? Races have ideas ? Nations have ideas ? Farang accept their “own people’s ideas” ? All Farang agree and have the same idea? or uncritically accept any idea? Enough said. Every sentence raises dozens of questions. This lack of logic and proper definition of terms can only elicit emotional responses.
But i guess New Mandala does deserve criticism for focusing all the time on the one issue that will get maximal emotional reactions. There are so many areas that lack transparency and critical scrutiny in Thailand. The police, the military, agricultural policy, none of these topics get enough critical attention. You could devote a whole blog to these untransparent areas and you might actually initiate concrete reforms that would do a lot of people good, instead of the one topic that could reduce Thailand to a pile of rubble.
As for the Farang vs. Thai distinction, it only exists because there are laws that effectively prevent a Farang from becoming Thai. A Thai can certainly become a cultural or intellectual Farang or be born a Farang in this sense of the term. But honestly, Farang is a racial term meaning “white” and “Thai” is a legal term denoting nationality. How can you compare them?
In this mass of inchoate verbage there is an emergent hypothesis. Something like, if you are born in Thailand then you are going to be limited in your intellectual advancement.
Refining the hypothesis further: if you are born in Thailand without enough money to study abroad at a place like ANU then you are going to be limited in your intellectual advancement.
Further refinement, if you are born in Thailand without enough money to pay bribes to school officials to get your kid into a good school to get the preparation he or she needs to get into a top flight university like Chula in Thailand, then you are going to be limited in your intellectual advancement.
Going further: if your parents are migrant labourers from Isan in Bangkok, can you get your kids educated for free in even the most basic Bangkok schools? The answer is no from the cases that I am familiar with. These are serious questions that can be given firm measurable answers and could be a springboard for reform.
Real issues about poverty, reform and development. Real double standards. The issues you should be talking about in New Mandala, not bogus strawman issues like attacking the very foundations of the Thai state or fighting double standards applied to the billionaire Thaksin. You guys did get lost it along the way
I am a Farang and like many Farang teachers I know, I welcome well-reasoned logical disagreement with what I say, but why should I uncritically accept some person’s ideas that they try to pass off as representative of all “Thais”. It would be interesting to uncover the very real underlying psychological state of which this writing is only an outward manifestation or symptom but I doubt if it is uniquely Thai. I bet you could substitute certain words and get a little emotional essay written by an Australian or American about their own country and foreigners
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This from the Bangkok Post on recent murder of Democrat politician:
“The chief of military staff had even called Chutidet to offer him financial assistance in a district council seat he was running for, she said, making it highly improbable that the officer wanted her husband dead.”
I wonder…what venues does a military chief of staff use in a democratic society to support political candidates?
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As I was reading the article, part way through it, I had to look up at the URL to make sure I wasn’t at Not The Nation.
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I have seen this “You are not Thai, you do not understand Thailand” mantra all the time. Have those people ever read what “farangs” have written before they point out the finger to them and said they do not understand? Most of the articles which “farangs” wrote which I have read contain a very detailed analysis of the way Thai people think, and I can say that those analysis are mostly very accurate.
Besides, who is that father and mother the author is talking about anyway? I have only one father and one mother, and FYI, I openly criticise what they do whenever they did something which I think is not suitable, and they listen to me. They know that my criticism is made for a good purpose. Anyone who refuses to criticise their father and mother’s behaviour when there is a need to criticise, is expressing their love in a wrong way.
I believe that to love is to be honest, to tell the person you love of both the things they want to hear and the things they do not want to hear. You praise them to make them feel proud of their achievements, but you must also criticise them because nobody is perfect. A society which forbids criticism is nothing but an insincere society where people refuse to acknowledge the problems around them. The problems will not go away if one does not rectify it. It will remain, and it will continue to surmount. And one day the whole thing will burst all at once, and there may be serious consequences.
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Not sure what happened a moment ago…
Why Thais are unique. Thais herein defined as Thais who make decisions for others. I was emailed this a while ago and am not sure whether everyone agrees with all, some or none of it…
1. They are unique because they cling to the uniqueness mantra.
2. They are unique because they depart from minimal standards of human rights protections.
3. They are unique because they practice loyalty by force.
4. They are unique because the prohibit self-determination.
5. They are unique because they snub their noses at common sense.
6. They are unique because they do not accept the reality of consequences of their dogmas and desires.
7. They are unique because so far they have been insulated from the consequences of their wayward ways.
8. They are unique because their history is something that has not been honestly admitted to by them, or openly taught.
9. They are unique because they pretend the rose has no thorn, that questions never need be asked or answered.
10.They are unique because they know and you do not.
In all of this, uniqueness is but an illusion. This kind of uniqueness is so repetitious throughout history that it is childish to claim it.
That was the email. does this describe only Thais, or all peoples in all nations? Or just Asians? Or only farangs?
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Self-restraint eh?
Or the convenience of indifference and disinterest, often masquerading as kreng jai or fettered by the chains of modern day feudalism.
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The author argues ‘Farang cannot understand Thai-ness.’ But does he, a Thai, understand Farang-ness?
Also, I thought Darwin was an abolitionist?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/books/review/Benfey-t.html?pagewanted=all
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Good one, Johninbkk (27)! Compare the saintly Darwin with the Thai royalists. We all know their favourite term for rural Thais: “buffaloes”, the sub-human slaves of the rice paddies. The reason why the royalists think that way is clear. Slavery is the historical tap-root of the Thai militarist/monarchist state.
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Many Thais, perhaps the majority, divide the world into two groups – Thai and non-Thai. Interestingly nearly everything that Thais regard as most precious come from the non-Thai group.
Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Blackberry, iPhone, Gucci, Burberry, Rolex, Prada…
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What you see here is the inevitable result of an “education” system that restricts the student to narrow dogma, demands compliance, and suppresses critical thinking. The authors are not really to blame – the formulation of independent and objective ideas is beyond their capability.
I would place far more creedence on the wise observations of an experienced old buffalo …
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I read an interesting restatement of the Four Noble Truths just now:
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John Francis Lee #30, your recommendation is a good process. The problem is the Salims won’t do it. It does take some big hit for a Thai to lose faith in the Royals and start asking questions and view things objectively. Many of Thaksin supporters had been ‘hit’ by the coup, the Palace’s blatant act of side taking, as well as massacre. This is why they have lost faith in the Royals and start asking questions and analyse everything objectively.
As the Salims have yet to be ‘hit’ by something big which affects them, they would not lose faith in their beloved Royals yet. The day where they would open their eyes and start asking what is the reality is yet to come.
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I found this quote from a Bangkok Post editorial published today to be somewhat interesting:
“he engineered a personality cult, where his pictures and statues are everywhere, and the legend held that he made no errors and governed perfectly.”
The balance of the editorial painted a very unflattering portrait of the Dear Leader, Kim Jong Il. It went on to suggest that if North Korea wants to make progress politically, socially and economically, there will need to be a dramatic change in the way things are done there.
One wonders if the North Koreans may take offense to these rather frank comments and organize protests against Thailand for interfering in their internal political affairs.
Perhaps there will even be calls by senior government and military officials for those who don’t agree with the right-wing, militaristic establishment of North Korea to leave that country if they don’t agree with and embrace the dictatorship.
Change is definitely in the wind in North Korea. I guess I’m lucky I live in Thailand.
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Bill, I believe that the Lese majeste laws also ban criticism of foreign heads of states too so we should all say what a good chap the Dear Leader was and how wonderful the Great Successor will be.
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It is an article such as this by Somchai Menyaem that brings me even more shame to be a Thai.
Yes, some farangs are bad. But I doubt that all the Thai ways are good even for its own citizens. Yes, the western world once tried to control people’s thought and freedom of expression. We called that period in history the “Dark Ages.” But the western world has since progressed to a much different level. But I guess we in Thailand still live in the Dark Ages.
The world is more and more globalized and many values, especially human rights and freedom of speech, have become universal. Such argument that we Thais are different and we can justifiably hold different set of values is becoming weaker and weaker to the point that it is not worth arguing about.
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One thing I hope all Farangs should do without mistake is to pronounce the name of the capital of Thailand correctly. The name “Bangkok” is made up of two words: “bang” from the noun meaning a district near water, pronounced “baang” and definitely not “bang” like something bursting, and the other part is “kok” with an unaspirated “k” referring to a kind of fruit local to the area. In Thai this is บางกอก and not แบงค็อก. If nothing else, I would appreciate it greatly if my dear Farang friends pronounce the name of the capital of my country correctly, and do not make a mistake that causes many Thais to follow suit.
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With today’s audio online technology, why not put that up again with your correct pronunciation?
In a tit-for-tat, some of “us” are surprised when locals teach students to pronounce letters of the alphabet in strange ways. For example, the letter ‘h.’ It is usually taught by Thais to be aspirated at the beginning with a “Hi!” puff of breath, but of course we know this to be incorrect. There are various samples to cite on both sides of the Rio Grande.
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Dear Mr. Anderson:
My point is not that Thais don’t make mistakes about things English. In fact, they have made a lot of them, and so what we can do is to put at least some of them right the best we can. It’s nothing tit for tat about it. And about the aspirated “h”, it’s hardly anything “usually taught by Thais”. Being an English teacher, I fight it as hard as many of my fellow English teachers around Thailand.
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All well and good, perhaps, but I have yet to run into a non-Thai English teacher who makes the same error. Perhaps you have?
As to the wish for correct pronunciation of Bangkok, I confess to using the Westernized pronunciation in almost all conversation and do not plan to make any adjustments in the near future pending a convincing reason other than it is merely a need to pronounce as Thais pronounce it, or whether I and others have the right, without being ignorant, to pronounce it internationally.
Ever listened to most Arabs pronounce Pattaya? It’s three syllables, with normal pronunciation on the first. But most Arabs not familiar or not needing in their social circles to pronounce it correctly call it “Pat THA ya.”
As to Chevrolet, why are Thais taking so much trouble to pronounce the “T” at the end when it is not pronounced? How did this very wrong pronunciation get started and why is it accepted?
The initial response to you was that you seemed as if you were asking in a somewhat condescending tone for “all Farangs” to accommodate your personal preferences at pronouncing Bangkok, as correct as it is. However, as you are likely well-aware not all farangs come from the same place and their pronunciations of Bangkok will also likely vary. So when you ask “all Farangs” not to make the mistake of mispronouncing Bangkok as a farang many of us wonder just how it is that your message is to penetrate the international farang community on the one hand, and on the other, is your point valid for its own sake or is it somewhat kiltered? I think that many Asians will use the international pronunciation of Bangkok. They are not farangs.
Finally, my own pet peeve as an English teacher and a long-time one. This “And also” we are exposed to constantly is and was a no-no from kindergarten on. Use either one or the other but not both. Yet BBC and CNN and Reuters and the Bangkok Post and people I run into, those i listen to on TV and radio are “and also” – ing everything to death. Why don’t people wake up?
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Even Buddhism is forced on you in first grade, kindergarten even. If you marked your info as ‘no religion’, you’re encouraged by your teacher to put ‘Buddhist’ there instead. You’re then required to study 2 hrs of mandatory lessons each week in Buddhism.
It helps that most Thais are gullible enough that they don’t question where their ‘choice’ came from.
And your love for the Monarchy starts mysteriously from the same age/same place. Isn’t that wonderful?
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Dear Mr. Anderson: Your last point is well taken. But is it really “people waking up” or “people staying in a trance”?
Let me reiterate. I am merely trying to put something to right. No condescension was intended, absolutely. I know full well that condescension is costly for us Thais, and that only a farang can afford it. Should anyone read condescension into my statement, that could be double condescension. Farewell, Mr. Anderson, you will hear no more from me. No more things picayunish or pedantic.
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@ Constant Petit 38
To be fair, Thais cannot pronounce the ‘correct’ names of any foreign countries either. For example, United States is pronounced ‘may ga’ เมกา (short for America). But that is normal for any language/country. And to be additionally fair, 90% of Thais don’t even know the full name of Bangkok (all ~100 syllables of it). But I do, and I enjoy putting them to shame =P
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