New Mandala readers with an eye to history will remember the violent events of 10 April 2010 in central Bangkok. Some of the relevant New Mandala coverage is still available here and here. For Thailand’s Reds this is the start of more than a month of dates that require reverent reflection, all the way through to 19 May.
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10 April 2010 was the day which my mum removed the picture of the K and Q from our home wall, tore the picture away, and threw it in the rubbish bin. She did this after she saw the soldiers coming out to kill the protesters and that people got killed.
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Did she replace them on her wall with this one
http://www.reportageonline.com/2010/06/thailand-a-land-of-smiles-no-more/sehdaeng_shinawatra_dubai/
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John Smith
More likely she went to the ballot box in July 2011 and voted out the unelected criminals who had instigated the massacre.
Democracy sucks, huh?
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Particularly disgusting is that the Democrats now try to generate votes by claiming that it was “their” day of remembering their heroes, such as Romklao. Unsurprisingly, hardliner Korn is in the middle of the action. See
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/288326/govt-tries-to-forget-deaths-of-soldiers
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Andrew # 3
Putting aside your shrill demagoguery, the reality is she likely voted for the MP candidate for her district that was supported by the same faction as she always does. The issue of the 2010 demonstrations and riots probably was not much of an issue compared to the pork barrel promises that were made.
No, democracy is great, but it is people like you that make that these hate filled rants that are that screw it up just as much as someone that would support a coup.
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John Smith
Sorry but I am not sure what “hate-filled rant” or “shrill demagoguery” I engaged in.
Simply pointed out a couple of facts.
a) Democrats had no democratic mandate.
b) It’s a criminal act to use snipers to kill civilians
c) the Democrat government ordered the snipers onto the street.
That was much more likely to influence voting patterns than the kind of slavish support of Thaksin you are suggesting.
In fact, the ordinary Thai people who voted out the government that committed the crimes of 2010 engaged in a proper, dignified, lawful and democratic act.
What could be wrong with that?
Abhisit had his chance and the Thai people made their decision based on almost 3years of his “government”.
They reduced the number of seats the Democrats hold in parliament.
What clearer message could they give?
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John Smith – 2
Just because some people doesnt pro the monarch doesnt mean they will automatically pro Thaksin. You are making it too simple (and shallow?).
CT – 1
Actually I’ve taken mine down on the 19 Sep 2006.
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@John Smith – 2
The answer to your question is no. I, however, am currently in a process of persuading her to hang some pictures of Princess Srirasmi on the wall. I have 100+ of her pictures from her private album saved in my PC. She, however, laughed and said I am crazy every time I propose this idea to her.
@Tarrin – 7
I must correct you a little bit. It is not that I do not support the Monarchy. As long as Srirasmi become the next Queen, I am willing to wait until I see all Royalists who claim themselves as educated as clever worship her and prostrate her feet :p
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CT # *
I am willing to wait until I see all Royalists who claim themselves as educated as clever worship her and prostrate her feet
That indeed will be interesting should it occur.
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@ricefieldradio tweeted this earlier and I thought it was apt for this thread…
“It’s comical that the only people that don’t want Thaksin back are the PAD who won’t run in an election, Democrats who can’t win an election and some Farang that can’t vote in an election.”
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Andrew Spooner # 10
“It’s comical that the only people that don’t want Thaksin back are the PAD who won’t run in an election, Democrats who can’t win an election and some Farang that can’t vote in an election.”
TBH, a considerable portion of the Red Shirts are starting to get fed up with Thaksin with this government’s refusal to do anything to release political prisoners, and an insane crackdown on LM. I, however, do not know whether those people ‘do not want him back’ or not.
As for me, now I feel indifferent about him coming back. I don’t really care whether he will have to be exiled for all of his life, or whether he can come back.
One thing I know for sure after this 2011 election, is Thaksin is a person who is ready to ‘step on anyone, even his own supporters’ to get what he wants. He seems to have influenced a lot 0f Red Shirts to become anti-Monarchy. When his sister won the election, however, her government (in which he is believed to be the ‘shadow PM’ behind his sister) betrayed their own supporters by initiating harsher crackdown and sentencing. In other words, Thaksin did not hesitate to arrest and jail his own supporters, just so that his political party would remain in power.
My brother used to tell me that he believed the CP will also be betrayed by Thaksin once he comes back to Thailand and took the PM office again (if that day will finally come). I initially took his assumption with a grain of salt, but looking at what is happening now under Yingluck’s administration, I start to believe his assumption more and more.
Fortunately, I am not a Thaksin fanatic. So I don’t really feel betrayed by this. I know for the fact, however, that many Red Shirts feel that they have been betrayed by Thaksin. I will be interested to see the result of the next election whether Thaksin’s party will still win an election by landslide.
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CT
I don’t know if many Red Shirts feel betrayed by Thaksin or not. The ones I spoke to during my 3month visit from Nov to Feb 2011/12 didn’t really mouth that sentiment. I spent considerable time in Isaan and the north plus some time at Imperial Lad Prao. I spoke, at length, to everyone from grass roots members to Thida.
I also spoke directly to the LM prisoners – they told me that conditions had improved dramatically for them since YL’s govt came in. They also made a number of claims that they were badly mistreated under the Dem govt and were completely ignored by Western media and Western human rights groups during that period.
Harsher crackdown on LM than under the Dems? Well, I went to the expert, David Streckfuss, and he said “nope”. I went to other very important human rights figures and they also said “nope”.
Increase in rhetoric, yes, but the number of actual cases proceeding to court has dropped. Significantly. The real terror on LM is still being driven by the PAD, Yellow media and Dems. The hate campaigns are just as effective as the law anyway.
So better prison conditions, less cases coming to court.
When they do get to court who gives the sentences? The govt? Nope. The judges. And I don’t think I need to spell out their political leanings. It isn’t’ for the Reds or Thaksin, let’s put it that way. If the govt did try to influence the courts one can imagine the outrage “Thaksin tries to control courts now.” Or some human rights stooge like Sunai Phasuk making a statement saying “HRW oppose the overbearing influence of the government on Thailand’s independent system of justice” or some Western journo like Crispin, just up for visa renewal, the horror of maybe having to live without an Isaan maid to clean up after him, saying “This is yet more evidence of Thaksin’s anti-democratic, Mussolini-style form of government” blah blah blah.
Yes, agree, govt has full responsibility to attempt to move things forward on HR and LM and on investigation into April/May 2010. From what I’ve been told is that army are threatening a coup if they do that. Should they ignore those threats? Possibly, but the outcome could be a horrific civil war and we all know who the US, the Western media and the human rights groups would side with should a coup occur. The Thai Army.
Most Reds and prisoners I spoke to seemed have a pragmatic approach to Thaksin. It’s a two way thing. If he gets too close to those who perpetrated massacre he could suffer at election, no doubt. But there has been no poll of Red Shirts – be very interesting to see one to see what they actually think rather than just anecdotal stuff you or I can provide here.
I also think economic factors could have a huge bearing on matters. If Thaksin improves economic plight of majority of Thais they will likely forgive him on other issues and vote him or his party back in.
That’s the same in pretty much every democracy I know of.
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John Smith (comment #5)
“it is people like you that make… these hate filled rants that … screw it up just as much as someone that would support a coup.
Are you seriously claiming that my comments here on New Mandela screw up democracy as much as supporting a military coup?
For real?
And, in the same comment, accuse me of “shrill demagoguery”?
Next you’ll be accusing me of “hyperbole”…. oh….
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Re CT comment #8
You are being sarcastic, right? I have a friend of a friend from British Counsel, who was tapped to be her private English tutor. Although this is all second hand information, it was reported to me that the impression one makes of the former karaoke singer is that she is, well, more than a little lazy, more than a little over-indulged, and not a very dedicated student (I have to be mindful of the realities of LM in Thailand so I feel constrained not to say more).
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Response to Anynymous this time # 13
“Re CT comment #8
You are being sarcastic, right?”
No, I am serious. I genuinely support Princess Srirasmi to be the next Queen. But whether I respect her or not, or whether my opinion towards her is positive or negative, that’s another issue. The main reason I support her is because I think the Chakri Dynasty should end already. And what would be the better way to end this dynasty than the King who is a sex maniac and his wife who is a porn star.
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