Last week Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr told Radio Australia that his government would monitor democracy and human rights in Burma. Of course, this is welcome news, but the Australian government needs to be mindful of a new dynamic of human rights violations in Burma. The current peace building initiatives between the government and ethnic armed groups in Burma are not enough anymore; ethno-religious and inter-communal relations must be taken seriously in order not to derail the current political reform. For human rights abuses and violence are committed not only by the state but also by different ethno-religious groups against each other. Racism and racial profiling in the media deserve careful attention, and the transnational nature of fostering ethno-religious intolerance as part of the new dynamic of human rights need to be addressed.
As I was writing this piece, communal riots just broke out in Maungdaw district in Arakan State. Breaking news came quickly, indicating that ‘Bengali’ [the term the media and the public now use for Rohingya minority group] have burned ethnic Rakhine houses in various villages, and have killed at least 6 people. The President’s Office also released information on the event, while a senior official from the President’s Office has been updating his Facebook status. My reading of his status messages is that the country’s national security is in great danger, and that the state is on alert for effective actions.
The mainstream media has been reporting that a mob of many hundred ‘Bengalis’ started the incident, storming houses, burning down villages, and killing people.
Only very rare alternative information have made its way to the public, saying that the Muslims returning from Friday prayer were mistaken by the police to be rioting and therefore were shot. The initial tension was between the Rohingya and the police, and the riot spread from this. Some other alternatives indicate that the state security forces have been the perpetrators against Rohingya. Both sides are giving consistent information of their own, but independent confirmation is unavailable so far. In this contribution to New Mandala, I will illustrate the recent history of the riots.
I have already noted on New Mandala about some Arakan’s [Rakhine’s] racist campaign against Rohingya on social media websites, mostly Facebook. I also noted that it is open and public and that it has a genocidal tendency.
On 3 June 2012, this campaign turned really ugly. A mob of 300 Rakhines, Buddhists from Tounggout Township in Arakan State, stopped a bus and beat to death 11 persons traveling to Yangon. Ten were Muslim travelers, one of whom was a woman who was sexually assaulted before being killed. One other Buddhist was killed as he was mistaken for a Muslim. None of the victims were Rohingyas whom Arakan called ‘illegal’ immigrants from Bangladesh. This incident frustrated the country’s Muslim population that felt even more insulted when the state media referred to the victims as Muslim ‘Kalar’. This is a derogatory term used for Muslims, those of South Asian descent, or “black-skinned, undesirable aliens”, as Dr Maung Zarni has noted.
This massacre was said to be a response to the rape-murder of a 26-year- old Arakan woman on 28 May 2012, allegedly by three Muslim men. But the story is much more complicated.
The ongoing campaign and the media
As I noted in my earlier New Mandala post, the anti-Rohingya campaign began with intensity in November 2011. As the campaign continued, the unclear, confusing and even non-sense ethno-religious categories such as Rohingyas, Burmese Muslims, ‘Kalar’, ‘Muslim race,’ and ‘Islamic race’ became even more blurred. With such confusion, the common target became anything ‘Kalar’: Muslims, Rohingyas, South Asians, Islam.
The campaign also started representing Burmese Muslims [i.e. Muslims in Burma, or Burmese citizens of Islamic faith] as foreigners who came to Burma during colonial times only to take advantage of the country. The spreading discourses of racism increasingly deny and undermine the long political history of Burmese Muslims.
Then came two incidents within two weeks of the byelection in April 2012. A mob led by Buddhist monks and members of Aung San Suu Kyi’s National League fpr Democracy demolished a mosque in Hpakant, Kachin state. At the same time, another mosque in Magwe Region, central Burma, was demolished by a mob that also destroyed the homes of local Muslims and looted their properties. Initially, this was part of business competition between Win Naing, a Member of the Parliament from the ruling Union Solidarity and Development Party, and Muslim business families (particularly one extended family). The MP, losing previously monopolised ferry business contracts, instigated a religious riot so that he and his colleagues could take back business licenses from the Muslim family (ferry business, taxation and so on). Law enforcement officers were simply watching as the riots took place.
The country’s Muslim population was frustrated since the mainstream media was completely silent on these attacks. Myanmar News Now (MNN), a single person-run website, but a very popular one, published a news report indicating it as a daylight “robbery” by a mob. Unclear reports confused people who thought that about 300 Muslims violently looted and destroyed the properties of local people. Anti-Muslim messages sprung up on Facebook accusing Muslims such as the quote below.
“How come the so-called democratic government is not doing anything when these Kalar came to our country and insulted us like that?”
Myanmar Muslim Students and Youth (MMSY) sent a complaint letter to the media both in Burma and in exile, and the Burmese media started reporting on the incident. Though, it is unclear whether the action of the media has anything to do with the letter. Nonetheless, usage of ‘Kalar‘ by the media (particularly by one media organisation) upset the Muslims.
Being misinformed, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi commented on Radio Free Asia’s Burmese Service telling the people not to fight with each other. This added to Burmese Muslims’ humiliation as they did not fight, but are being attacked and insulted because they are left unprotected. No other pro-democracy activists, human rights advocates, and politicians condemned the attacks.
Transnational campaign: Who is involved?
Hostilities against ethnic Rohingyas and Burmese Muslims are not new. They were rooted in dictator Ne Win’s time since the 1970s. But the current racist campaign is distinct from the past. It is not simply a state-sponsored project anymore. As Chris Lewa from Arakan Project noted on Radio Australia, it is difficult to say that the government is behind the current campaign.
The campaign now is a public and transnational movement orchestrated openly on social media websites. Thousands of people from the Burmese diaspora in Australia, US, Canada, UK and other European countries have joined this campaign. These participants include some pro-democracy and human rights activists who migrated to these countries as refugees and asylum seekers. Many are now citizens of these countries.
Some comments and self-published articles speak of such murderous language as killing all ‘Kalar’. Some blame dictator Than Shwe for not eradicating all Rohingyas and Muslim populations from the country. Insulting messages using bad languages and sexually sensitive words are quite common. The followings are two examples that are less inappropriate to illustrate the point here.
“Penis Kalar, F!@# Kalar, Dog Kalar, Pig Kalar”
“You Kalar even F!@# your mother and your babies”
The campaign is so severe that such comments and postings have been littered on thousands of Facebook walls and pages. Thousands of Burmese-speaking Facebook users are exposed to them every single day. Many Facebook groups such as “Kalar Beheading Gang” appeared one after another. While it is possible to report abuse to Facebook, there were few Burmese Muslim Facebook users who would report to Facebook. Even when they did successfully, new groups keep appearing frequently. The campaign looks very cheap, but it goes on.
Surprisingly, some of Burma’s famous film directors and celebrities are also involved. Director Cho Tu Zal who is seeking asylum (?) in the US is at the forefront of the campaign. He has 5,000 friends and more than 2,000 subscribers on his Facebook account; many hundreds support and re-distribute his anti-Rohingya and nationalist postings.
Similarly, a top film star named Min Maw Kun referred to Rohingyas, in a recent traditional staged sitcom, as black-skinned, big-belly, and hairy “Kalar” who marry many Burmese women. Maung Myo Min, one of the most popular film directors in Burma, directed the sitcom, which is available on Youtube and shared on Facebook. The star’s portrayal of Rohingyas resembled a comment by Burmese Consul-General to Hong Kong, Ye Myint Aung, who said in 2009 that Rohingyas were “ugly as ogres”.
While Buddhism is known to be a peaceful religion, some relatively junior monks are at the forefront of the campaign. One monk in particular is Ashin Wirathu, who was responsible for 2003 religious riots in Kyautse, central Burma. He is known for preaching extremism in the name of protecting ‘race and religion’, including his call for mandatory Buddhist education in all educational institutions. Without any statistical data, he accused Muslims for committing more rapes than members of other faiths. His extremism led the critics to call him the “Taliban Monk”.
Other junior monks studying Buddhism in Sri Lanka and elsewhere are also spreading made-up stories such as the one in which Muslim men forcefully marry Buddhist men’s wives. Respected and senior monks in the country have been trying to stop the campaign, but it continues. To my knowledge, similar stories [and short Facebook comments] are being written and distributed by so-called right activists based in the US, UK and Canada. These accounts are stirring people’s anger and reinforcing the idea that Kalar are trying to take over the Buddhist nation.
Although there is no single organisation or individual formally leading the campaign, the campaign’s patrons are Arakan nationalists such as Dr. Aye Chan from Kanda University of International Studies in Japan, the late Dr. Aye Kyaw from the United States and historian Khin Maung Saw based in Germany. Dr. Aye Chan’s infamous book about the ethnic Rohingya was titled Influx Viruses: The Illegal Muslims in Arakan.
Muslim responses
Campaigns against Rohingya and Muslims on social media have existed since the Internet became available in Burma in 1999. But these intensified in November 2011 when Cho Tu Zal (allegedly the first person to do so) highlighted BBC’s 2010 article on Rohingya.
While Rohingya activists have been consistently lobbying western governments for support, Burmese Muslims, with few exceptions, have been silent on the racist campaign. Although frustrated and humiliated, they hoped that it would fade away sooner or later as democratic reform proceeds and that the reform would allow them to address the issue through the parliamentary process. The lack of action is partly because the Muslims are politically too weak and immobilized during the past decades.
While Islamophobia is growing in the country partly as a result of state-sponsored campaign against Muslims in the past three or four decades, the Muslim communities have failed to reach out to the Buddhist majority and foster better relations or address the majorities’ concerns. Moreover, the Muslims have not been able to address the issue of confusing South Asian cultural traditions with Islamic religion, which helps sustain the majority’s view of Muslims as aliens. While politico-religious extremism is not an issue, the communities have not been able to address the Muslims’ hypersensitivity to issues such as handling pork or address everyday community relations, in which Muslims appear ill behaved. Emerging youth groups have been trying, but their actions have been ineffective due to the lack of financial and human resources.
Most importantly, perhaps, although Burmese Muslims do not seem to be enthusiastic about supporting Rohingyas’ status as an ethnic group of Burma, they are not able to make visible the distant between themselves and the Rohingya, as they doubt that anti-Rohingya campaign is also an anti-Muslim one. In other words, the idea of Muslim brotherhood is not relevant to the relationship between Rohingyas and Burmese Muslims; they are not completely antagonistic to each other either. Likewise, although religiously motivated terrorism is not a significant issue in Burma, the Muslim communities have been unable to act on some Rohingya groups that have been accused of having connections with Al-Qaida. The Muslims communities are politically too immobilized to do the tasks anyway. This has an important implication on the relationship between the Buddhist majority and Muslim minority.
On the part of Rohingya activists, their insistence on the group being an official ethnic group of the country only sustains backlash from Rakhines and majority Burmese. They have not taken on the so-called ‘illegal’ immigration, making the majority Burmese to insist on immigrants and Burma-born Rohingya being the same. In short, the meddling of ethnicity, religion, ‘illegal’ immigration and citizenship has been left unaddressed.
There are politicians, activists, and journalists from Muslim communities who are working within the mainstream. When the mainstream completely ignores them in times of need, the Muslims find themselves too paralyzed: they have no representatives to act on their behalf nor do they have their own leaders, organizations/parties, or media. Realizing that the mainstream political movement is only inattentive to their needs, Burmese Muslims started responding to the racist campaign after the April incidents. Some predicted that sectarian violence would break out soon if the media and mainstream political organizations did not control the racist campaign. Their cry for help, however, only falls on deaf ears: the media and human right activists assumed that the campaign on Facebook was not worth addressing.
Yet, the campaign has already redefining political spaces, citizenship and inter-communal relations manifested in the 3 June 2012 massacre, which was a strong reaction to a rape-murder case of a 26-year-old woman in Rambre Township.
Triggering public anger
What actually triggered public anger? It may have been racial profiling by the ethnic Arakan news agency, Narinjara, established in 2005. When the rape incident took place, the agency published news identifying the accused with their Islamic faith. In its Burmese language news, the incident was presented as if Muslims [read aliens] were threatening local people, and now they have raped and brutally killed a woman. The words – Muslims, Kalar, Islam – were repeatedly used in its news reports. The news spread and people started talking about it in terms of Kalar and “Lu Myo Char [i.e. different race/people or alien] insulting our woman”.
Interestingly, Naranjara and Facebook users started talking about the accused rapists as Kalars even when the backgrounds of the accused were still unclear. Information from alternative sources shows that the main accused’s father was born into a Buddhist Rakhin family, but a Muslim couple adopted him after his parents abandoned him at birth. However, his father and the couple died. He became a spoiled kid with a criminal record showing multiple violations. Whether he practiced Islam or not, and his ‘Rakhin-ness’ [if so] were not considered. Instead, news reports portrayed the case as an insult by Kalar. I have not noticed The Narinjara or other agencies specifically blaming Rohingya for the crime. (Note: I do not seek any identification of ethnicity with criminal activities. My intention here is only to point out racial profiling).
As the news spread, genocidal comments also appeared one after another such as the one below.
“Bad Kalar. We already allowed them to live in our country. Now they have raped and killed our woman…. If we just watch, we will end soon. Unless we take initiative and plan to end Kalar men and women, Rakhine people will end” [his word choice “Myo Ton Aung” literally means the end of race/ethnic kind].
Ignoring the complaints from Muslim groups and individuals, the agency continued publishing news in similar fashions until 2 June 2012 (a total of five news reports). Initial erratic reporting of the victim’s age as 16-years-old (instead of 26-years-old) contributed to stirring people’s anger dramatically.
On 3 June 2012, the angry mob at Taunggot stopped a bus and killed 11 people [There are reports saying that the culprits were not local residents. Some were holding communication devices that are normally used by security officers]. Surprisingly, although this massacre humiliated many Burmese (Muslims and non-Muslims alike), there are still many who openly justify the violence. Some Facebook users even offer money to those whoever would rape and kill Muslims in Arakan State. It should be noted, though, that it is still unclear to what extent the Facebook campaigns and comments actually fed into the communal riots.
A new issue emerges
As the country tries to address the issue, another problem has been introduced: citizenship. Burmese Muslims are being treated as second-class citizens and the discourses of racism are increasingly portraying them as Lu Myo Char [different race/people]. When the massacre took place on 3 June 2012, the state run media referred to the victims as “Muslim Kalar”. When Muslims in Yangon protested against it, the Information Department corrected its usage to “Members of the Islamic faith who are living in the country”. This raises a question of whether the state recognizes Muslims as citizens. An open letter, submitted to President Thein Sein by Burmese Muslim Associations, raised the concern that the state media’s new usage downplays their citizenship status and that “living in the country” only signifies their “guest” status. [The complicated identity crisis of Burmese Muslims, now Myanmar Muslims, has a long history in Burma. I hope to contribute this topic to NM in the future.]
As these issues pre-occupied the Burmese home and abroad, the government has established an investigation committee for the 3 June 2012 massacre. Five major Islamic organizations in Burma have issued a joint statement, urging Muslims to calm down and not to protest. The Muslims in the country seem calm.
On 8 June 2012, however, riots broke out in Maungdaw district, which is a Rohingya majority area. Previously idle media organisations started distributing breaking news. Weekly Eleven, a Yangon based-agency, for example, that completely silent on anti-Muslim riots in April and the 3 June 2012 massacre has been posting breaking news every minute.
Campaigners started distributing information associating Rohingya with terrorists, and speculating that foreign interventions (including from Bangladesh) are behind the scene. In the evening, leaders of influential 88 Generation Students declared that Rohingya is not an ethnic group of Burma. The government has issued Curfews in Maungdaw and Buthitaung (another Rohingya area) in Arakan State. Some fear that the military government is returning to power in the name of ‘keeping the country together’.
To summarise, the above chronology of the 3 June 2012 massacre illustrates that violence cannot be limited to state abuses. Instead, any attention to human rights issues in Burma needs to be serious about racism, inter-ethnic and religious relations, the role of the media and its code of conduct, transnational racist campaign on social media websites, and finally citizenship issues. The Rohingya problem has already troubled both Burma and its neighbors near and afar.
If the Australian government engages with Burma on human rights issues, the very first step, requiring minimal effort, will be to get Burmese-Australian citizens off the racist campaign who are one way or another fostering racial and religious intolerance in Burma. The next step is to support peace education programs through Australian educational institutions in order to foster critical understanding of issues involving ethnicity/identities, migration, conflict, nation-building, and citizenship. This educational support must be available to the general public, but not be limited to scholarships designed for few of the country’s brightest and most privileged. Finally, the government should initiate and support offices that can effectively monitor human right cases and ensure the prosecution of perpetrators.
Sai Latt is a PhD candidate in Canada.

Don’t propagate the sugarecoated and reverse news while Bengali Immigrants (Rohingya) are killing innocent local Rakhine on their own land.
Citizen media is the power of netizens. Citizen media is to prevent fake facts plotted by mainstream media.
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/06/10/myanmar-rakhine-villages-attacked/
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First off, Maung Zarni is a charlatan with no understanding of Burmese history or economics for that matter.
The word kalar has a nuanced history and is by no means derogatory. (Nor does it mean “cross over”, as nationalist Burmese would have it, with their folk etymology.) For most of Burmese history, it has been a neutral word, referring to peoples west of Burma (typically South Asia and beyond), in the same way Tayoke referred to peoples north of Burma (not just the Chinese, until recently). For one, the renowned Burmese chronicler (of the Maha Yazawingyi) bore the name Kala.
That kalar has come to be seen as a pejorative word (by the disempowered minority) does however, reflect the racial relations between Burmese and Indian-’looking’ peoples. The Burmese community is doing what it does best: making much ado about nothing…
And the international media has not been much better at providing a reliable account of the events in the past week… Thanks for this write up, Ko Sai.
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Some facts are wrong. The first one is “Some Facebook users even offer money to those whoever would rape and kill Muslims in Arakan State.”
This fact is not totally acceptable at all. Because I never see in facebook users of myanmar buddhist people trying that way. But I can say some of facebook users collecting donation money to support victims, arakan people, who have to run for lives from Rohingya Terrorists’ attack and insecure.
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When you analyse a situation, you have to see both sides of a coin. Don’t play underdog game which Jihadist Rohingya terrorists have perfected. See the real victims, Arakanese are suffering from aggressor invaders self-styled as Rohingya. See pictures yourself:
http://facebook.com/hmuu.zaw
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Now, the numerous incidents of large-scale violence are centering at Maungdaw which is a large town at the border with Bangladesh. In Maungdaw, the population ratio is like 98:2 between Bengali Muslims (Rohingyas) and ethnic Rakhaing. This statistic alone sufficiently suggests who are the perpetrators and who are victims.
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This is a nice, long and mostly acceptable article about the latest developments in Burma.
I have a long list to agree with the author but choose only to present one of my experience.
Once, a former military sergeant told us about the Bengali Kalars in Rakhine State, believing that we are trustworthy enough to talk because we were young socialist cadres.
“We were soldiers by day and killers by night. We terminate Kalar families who live at the fringe areas of towns and villages.”
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In all of the hate and anger contained in some of the above comments, I wonder where is Buddha and what would Buddha think of his Buddhist “disciples” and “followers” in the ever-so-Buddhist nation, Myanmar year 2555…………
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If we beleive that “majority-rule” means the right of “war veterans” in Zimbabwe to genocide white farmers and steal their farms…. then we have to give the same rights of self-determination to the Myanmarese majority. They, and they alone, can define their nationality. If the Rohingyas have got themselves into a jam, they can go where the white farmers in Rhodesia had to go. We cannot have a double standard.
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I’m surprised to see such an article on ANU website. Hi Mr. Sai Soe Win Latt, please take your time to check spelling, don’t be too rush to propagate.
How many hours did you spend on facebook to write such an extensive article? Instead of doing PhD in Canada, I’d like you invite to Myanmar and learn more about Myanmar history. Don’t worry about being Kalar, we’re not Islamophobia as you said.
We’ve been living peacefully for years with different religions in our country, because we, 135 ethnics groups, share some common belief, religions, or traditions between us. But for rohingya, we have nothing in common. They are not part of us. That’s why we’re protecting us, spend some more time in facebook to know how the military is handling this case. ok? Thanks.
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Strong and brave analysis – many thanks.
Weekly Eleven, normally one of the better domestic journals, has been shameful. Their headline today, ‘Bengali Rohingyas prowl around outside Rakhine city’, is one of many many attempts to paint the Rohingya as feral beasts.
There needs to be acknowledgement that racism pervades Burmese society (check so-called pro-democracy icon, Ko Ko Gyi: “We want to say clearly that Rohingya are not one of the Myanmar ethnic nationalities. We do not accept any kind of terrorism. We have a duty to protect any Myanmar citizen that is harmed whatever their religion or ethnicity.”). If it’s not confronted, it’ll continue to boil.
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This is not religious nor racial conflict but a foreign invasion, a land grabbing operation by Jihadists Chittagongnian Bengalis who called themselves Rohingyas.
Do not drag Buddha nor Christ into this political and military issue,
we were not born yesterday.
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You are a thing of wanting to protect the human rights of minority people. To be divided a human rights and minorities,majority.But respect each other would be basic? And human rights are also asked not unilaterally attack the opponent. When minorities attack the majority,the majority also take a action.
please be careful to use words. Rohinja is not a Muslim minority.They are Rohinja,This is not a religious issue.
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Those Bengali muslims populations are so uncontrollable, and influx like virus in that region crossing myanmar/Burma and Bangladesh boarder in everyday since decades ago. All UN agencies and NGOs know very much about it, but they say nothing, and just making money out of it creating projects after projects.
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Episodes of Sectarian violence within a nation such as Myanmar, with such vast differences in every respect from ethnicity to religions is to be expected.
Recurrent factors, which rarely can be solved, that contribute to these repeated episodes must be addressed, monitor and controlled.
Welcome to the age of faux “Freedom”. Where media such as Facebook, Blogs and other internet based communication can be used by unscrupulous to spread hatred and paranoia.
The present issue within Yakhine state is but an ugly microcosm of deprivation that the West has chosen as a method to effect the whole of citizenry within Myanmar.
Thus rather Hypocritical for the West/Australian government now to use this as a HR progress.
Not until the very basic of Myanmar Citizenry HR to education, healthcare and economic opportunities are addressed and guaranteed to desperate deprived Citizenry, invoking present HR violations as well as others that stem from poverty, in every respects, will just be putting the cart b/f the horses.
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Artur,
The Burmese and Rakhine are only human. Just remember that there has never been a Buddhist crusade or jihad in history. Ever heard of the “Arab and the Camel”? Only here in this version the camel is Rohingya and the Arab Rakhine. Religion and citizenship though relevant are secondary to the real issue – territorial claims based on a bogus history accompanied by aggression.
Perhaps the 3 June 2012 massacre, which was a strong reaction to a rape-murder case of a 26-year-old woman in Rambre Township is based on an unfounded rumour, perhaps started by the govt to divert popular anger on a whole raft of issues as they have done before. But it’s hardly surprising nonetheless that Burmese opinion across the board, of all political hues, is supportive of the Rakhine. The $64,000 question is are we falling for one of the regime’s time honoured strategies in times of crisis?
You may have seen this article by Dr. Habib Siddiqui in Asia Tribune. He said, “As I write, Maung Daw – located in northern Arakan (Rakhine state of Burma) is burning, as if mimicking the pogroms against the Rohingya and Muslim minorities of Burma that started in the 1930s..” when in fact it was the Rohingya who had earlier gone on a rampage killing seven people and burning 22 Buddhist villages in Maungdaw. Tit for tat never ends.
win,
Surely you’ve heard of a racist expression in the army, “When you see an Arakanese and a viper, kill the Arakanese first“? Not a million miles to extrapolate from there. And you are rather good at self-flagellation as plan B would put it.
This I agree with the author:
Exactly. They do not wish to be tarred with the same brush, and they are not confined to the three townships just this side of the Naaf River which in itself is a giveaway.
And how exactly do you get Burmese-Australian citizens off the racist campaign? Can anyone throw some light on the legal aspects of this?
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Melody Maung
I might have screen of the guy who offered award for raping and killing muslims. He said he would pay 300,000 Kyats for raping a muslim woman and 500,000 Kyats for killing a muslim. He even mentioned his phone number on facebook. He is from Thailand.
Please do research before you judge Sai Latt.
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Racial discrimination (not just in Burma) is, in my opinion, based on 4 things (in the following order):
1. Skin colour
2. Money
3. Religion
4. Education and Culture
Skin colour seems to be the most important one in Asia (the UN emissary Ibrahim Gambari was never taken seriously by Than Shwe). Asians are rather obsessed about skin colour, even in India (there are lot of skin whitening creams available all over Asia!). No wonder, Korean soap operas are very popular in Burma (a lot of kids in the big cities in Burma really try hard to look like Korean stars). Most Burmese also seem to have a much higher tolerance for “illegal immigrants” from China (there are lots of them in Burma but perhaps Burmese consider Chinese as “taing yin tha” (indigenous) or even as “paukphaw” (cousins)?, maybe because they “look more like Burmese” (whatever that means lol) and besides, they have enough money to bribe corrupt Burmese officials and buy real estate? I don’t know)
Anyway, it’s not going to be easy for the poor uneducated dark-skinned Muslim “illegal immigrants”, in Burma or elsewhere. I wonder how Burmese think about lighter-skinned very rich Muslims from Saudi-Arabia or Dubai (where some Burmese generals might have bank accounts?)
Incidentally the last Mughal emperor of India Bahadur Shah II (a Muslim) was sent to Burma by the British and he died (peacefully) in Rangoon in 1862.
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Sai Latt,
You are a Muslim Shan and you want to protect your Muslim brethens so much by omitting the real terrorist face of Rowengya or Rohingya. Look at all the villages they burnt, look at all the people they killed. They have played victim so much before. Now it is their time to play their real role of ‘Savages’. You will help it out, willingly or unwillingly.
David
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Sai Latt should declare his religion and ethnicity before allowing to write a long article on such controversial issues on an Australian Taxpayers funded website.
Here in America even the CNBC journalists are forced by a strict law to declare their material interest in a particular company if they are making a favorable or non-favorable comments on that stock.
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This is a time of real scary and critical period.
Last article of Sai Latt drew the largest response from people who usually do not bother and sure this one will. Just like the BBC report of Anna Jones.
Facebook and news outlets are really in overdrive all times of day and night.
Yet the issue is simple.
If one enjoys using emotional and inflammatory words found among these posts they are in thousands- on both sides.
It is now becoming clear that what is happening is not really any thing to do with religion at all or race.
U Razek and Yebaw Ko Htwe were respected and “A-lay- pued” exactly like Aung San and Thakin Mya. All Buddhist Burmese go around for a feast of great Bariani at the time of Eide. And no Buddhist offerings would exclude any human who turns up for the feast or in some instances the “Nats” a great many of whom are indeed “Kalar” which is a word many have repeatedly pointed out is not by itself derogatroy at all, even though some enjoy saying it is in international press. One great student and cronicler of Burmese history indeed was U Kalar.
The issue of the word “Rohingya” is red herring. It does not matter when it originates and what it means in this issue. Neither is the proof or lack thereby of such and such people being in such and such place for such and such time.
You see, short of the current “Civil War”, there was never any apprehension for the Burmese and Christian Kachin living side by side never worring about one race raping and killing the other and burning down ones houses, -short of this civil war.
But that has been the situation with some populace of northern Araken and around Sittwe while it must be emphasized that a large number of muslim people in those area also get along well with the others.
There has been no doubt a crime has been committed regarding a rape and murder. There also have been no doubt that another larger crime has been committed in Taunggup regardless of the reasons for it. Those have to be dealt with by legal means.
None of these can be used as an excuse to further violence and claim victimhood regardless of any emotional appeal.
It is clear regardless of name, religious persuation or duration of time people have been in the place. People living together must be able to live with one another in comfort and trust.
Current problem shows that people who have been living for say-centuries cannot gain faith and trust of the majority neighbours.
Drumming up explosive religion and race cards for worldwide sympathy is simply cowardly.
It is time for everyone to come out clean rather than recruit sympathesies by emotional blackmail.
Buddhist Burmese and Arakanese must come out to say, their animosity is against the muslim or the minority group at the north of Araken.
Muslim Burmese must come out to say their view on this group.
And people currently claiming victimhood must state what the real reasons of their demands are. Afterall, Yunos himself was educated in higher learning centre in Rangoon.
Only when these facts are clear, the way forward of how to deal with this group of people can be put on the table.
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Ko Wunna,
You are a lier. eliable News Agency has already stated that Rohingya and Rakhine ratio in Maungdaw is 50:50. Only in Maungdaw, the Muslims dared ot fight back the oppression. In other towns and villages in Arakan, the Rohingy Muslims are sitting ducks.
It is pathetic to see the so called Burmese Buddhist showing no compassion toward the Rohingys as they took asylum status or via refugee programs and become a citizen in a new country. That is because they are no Buddhis. They are fake Buddhists.
It is one thing to not agree with the Rohingyas claiming for ethnic group status, biut it is another thing to ask for for killing them. Shame on you people.
As for Sai Latt, the author, I salute you for your facts on the story.
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My brother met a Rakhine Buddhist in Rangoon, former capital, who went to Malaysia and worked there illegally like a lot of oppressed Rohingyas and other Muslims of Burma (South Asian descent) in search of work did via Thailland.
This is what he said: It was nice.
This Buddhist guy must have had close intermingling with the Rohingyas and other Muslims of Burma there. Because he was being productive and earning a living, he had no reason to resent the industrious Rohingys nor other Muslims of Burma like those who did not go anywhere and are just interested in picking on the weaker group to blame for their own poverty.
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Sai
Your paper is only based on Facebook and Internet. Myanmar has lowest usage of internet and telephone among SEA countries. And Within Rakhine state , very difficult to go somewhere from others as there are so many rivers. So information are not smooth well as u think. Even if u use bad languages at FB to them , how can they know? I dont think this event spark from online article and comments. I can prove this. That’s why Myanmar isn’t follow Arab Spring Wave. At that time all people using online doing so many campaign. But nothing happen as there is so limited connection to access online from Myanmar inside.
And another point is are you sure about there is no supported organisations for Rohingya. we can discuss it later.
Please note that participants from both sides are now running for their life as they have no time and connection to reply to u. Hope u will write “how to help those victims by Australian gov” for your next article.
Best wish for your PhD by doing other great paper.
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Gee, this post certainly lured a startling number of new readers – an alternative demographic to NM’s usual suspects – to post opinions and to up the number of ‘green tickmarks’ for juvenile and/or deranged comments…
Ah well, at least it’s novel to have some freshly brewed vitriol to mull over with my morning coffee as I catch up on regional news…
Oh and my opinion about Muslims and Rohingya in Myanamar? Recent events evoke the atmosphere for Jews in 1930s Germany, and specifically Kristallnacht, so with the state benefitting from the distraction such scapegoating provides, who has the will, presence of mind, and power to broker peace and foster intercultural understanding? For the time being, I fear, the answer is…no one.
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I simply wanted to say that the article is absolutely fabricated and based-on biased approach. As David said before, Sai Latt should declare his religion and background when writing about the issue like this. As a reader and an Australian Tax Payer, I believe this is wasting our Tax Payers’ money by publishing articles like this on Australian Tax Payers’ website, as the article is based on the fabricated wrong facts making false history of a country and a region that he doesn’t know.
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This author uses “alternative sources” to give another view of the issues. I am sure he got this “alternative sources” from Facebook too. Using these another sources, he said that one culprit was born into Buddhist family and adopted by a Muslim family. This story is just like a “joke of the day” and also like an attempt to make lightly of the rape case. He got this source from Facebook written by Alex Arakani. Like other Bengalese-cum-Rohengers, Alex is also an expert in inventing story in the same way they invented their so-called Rohenger history in Arakan Kingdom. Also quite sure that this writter has used many inputs from Rohenger sources, given his way of writing in the footsteps of, say, Habib Siddiqui, Nurul Islam and others who have alos used the same tone. If you read it carefully, Sai Latt (seemingly Pan-thay Tayoke) he is trying to blame media sources like Narinjara and Eleven Media and people like Dr. Aye Chan or to an extreme… to sabotage their crediblity and standing or their funders. He apparently failed to quote Kalandan news outlet for its brazen stirring up hatred among Rohenger people against our ARakanese. This article is not the first article I have read about racial conflict in Arakan and Burma in that 20% is acceptable while 80% is false and inciting. A good mixed of writing to garner support and empathy from Muslim world. He was supposed to collect information from the ground of Kyauknimaw where rape case and murder were committed to check if real rapists are Muslim in order to give his Ph.D status a good convincing.
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@ Moe Aung
My main intention above was to highlight the plight of Burma’s underprivileged people with a fraction of untold story. And it was very kind of you to put me as “rather good at self-flagellation” since I could end up with much worse terms. Actually, I was really hesitated to tell what I knew but decided to do it because we need to break the decades-old vicious-circles of hatred.
Apart from that, I find a common ground with Plan B’s assertion below.
“Not until the very basic of Myanmar Citizenry HR to ‘education’, healthcare and economic opportunities are addressed and guaranteed to desperate deprived Citizenry, invoking present HR violations as well as others that stem from poverty, in every respects, will just be putting the cart b/f the horses.”
This is one among my wishes to realize in my homeland but it’s still a distant reality.
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Link to detailed Reuters piece on the Buddhist-Muslim conflict in western Myanmar which has gone out worldwide…..a new international image in the making?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-myanmar-violence-idUSBRE85A01C20120611
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Thank you Sai Latt for this article. It is an anchor of reasoned sensibility in this (shockingly quick-to-surface) sea of vitriol. Pls keep it up.
Best wishes,
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Some media are misled to believe to report the current situation is
a religious driven conflict. Muslim and Buddhist mobs attaching, etc..
But if you have done your homework, the facts are clear:
1) Bu Thee Taung and Maung Daw districts in Burma are close to Cox Bazzar, Bangladesh
2) Bangladesh is a third of the size of Burma with thrice more populated
3) Bangladesh is a sinking nation, 20% of its today land mass will be under sea in decades
4) Burmese government has more to lose than gain from this conflict
5) Rohingya is a fabricated race, it never exist in British National Archives,
Britain ruled Burma from 1824 to 1947. Go to UK national archives online, search with keyword “Rohingya”. There will be no results. British are good in record keeping and they even archive shipping manifests from 1700s or
even earlier. So no archive means, this Rohingya is a fabrication.
6) OIC (organization of islamic countries) is backing Rohingyas and most of exile Burmese rely on Rohingya’s hand-outs. Even DVB, Oslo based media agency is head by Han Nyaung Wai, who was with OIC. OIC is known for rich man club.
7) There are a quarter to half a million of some ex-Burmese residents, Bangladeshi and Pakistanis among them, residing in Saudi Arabia. Even
ex-Mujaheed leader, whose failure in armed rebellion, led to coinage of the term Rohingya.
8) Refugee Watch International, report about Rohingya was compiled by
a Bangladeshi professor who has been closely collaborating with Bangladesh Strategic Studies, a Bangladesh state arm.
IMHO, my country Burma is under foreign invasion. Portraying this as intolerance is not only misleading but also manipulative. Racism and discrimination are evil and Burmese must refrain from but they do have rights to report the world as it is. Invasion is invasion, either by Chinese or Chittagongian Bengalis. Petro Dollars should not set double standards.
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This article is a totally unreliable and lopsidedly written one. If the facts in it were true, Muslims would be always right and innocent. To know whether it is true or not, just look around the world, and you will clearly see who are more aggressive and how hostile Muslims are. At the same time, you will see that the almost 100 % of the world terrorists are Muslims.
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Arakanese,
You have great imagination calling Sai latt as pan-Thay Tayoke. Pan-thay is a Burmese word for Chinese Muslim. Pan-thay are Chinese and they do not use the word Sai, a term used by Shan people of Burma who are Buddhists. People like Dr. Aye Chan with no PhD degree has no credibility just as Narinjara and Eleven Media don’t either.
Sai latt is working on his PhD and he cannot write bs to make a paper. Whatever he writes has to pass through review and hence his article has to have substance unlike yours.
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Firstly, it looks fine to read reflecting background information. As for me, I can know some information that I couldn’t before. It is actually chronic issue based on racial and other socioeconomic matters. However, I doubt some points mentioned here because super-highlighting the facebook users’ message. May be they are young activist and mostly might be Buddhist. No ways to deny it. However Sai latt’s writing was also very openly to blame those but with no mention of why he said. He cannot clarify why and how government sponsored campaign against Muslim with reliable figures. And he draws up again absolutely unreliable information that is even very very rarely said by both Rohinja and Rakhine people that one of murderer was a child of Buddhist parents. The most important thing he failed is to say the day riot started is Friday and there were mass praying and feeling anger about 10 Muslim died in Taung Gyout Township. I simply think it is sparked because of passed away people they were killed illegally. I admit I am a Muslim but want to think and judge fairly on ground of realities. If some one says in bias, truth will go away from him/her.
Allah Bless to you all!!!
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Aung,
Rohingya is not a fabricated word. The word was coined by a man whose ancestors has settled in Arakan since 10th century. He was merely labelling a particular group of Muslim in some parts of Arkan. That is not to say that there were other Muslims in Arakan. There were many other Muslims whose leaders ended up using this term because they were being marginalized by the Burmese government. Regardless of the name, these people were born in Arakan.
Some of these people have ancestors that came form bengal throughout history but by now means they are recent forigners who enetred burma illegally. Even if some did, they intermarried with pMuslims who have been there for so long just as your ancestors who were once foriengers intermarried with people who were already in the region that is now Burma.
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Able Aung,
Yes, Sai was right in saying that there is no group who represents the Rohingya and he meant who represents the Rohingyas living in villages in Arakan.
That is why US is unable to give the Rohingyas refugee status and these people are stuck in Bangladesh instead of being relocated to a third country. Bangladesh cannot afford to absorb these people.
A little well-to-do Rohingyas made it to the west and are able to apply asylum but those who had to flee from the atrocity of the Burmese government and the Buddhist rakhines just end up in being stuck in Bangladesh withering away.
Regardless of race, ethnicity or religion, we should have compassion toward fellow human beings. No one deserves to live in such condition.
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I’ve got to say, I am surprised at the tone of Eleven Media Group’s coverage.
If this whole situation wasn’t so sickening I’d laugh at their pledge to “continue presenting the most reliable news for the benefits of the State and the public. Foreign media such as the BBC and the AFP should mention exactly that Bengali Rohingyas are not involved in Myanmar national ethnics. The reporting on Myanmar ethnic affairs should be accurate to avoid racial violence.”
The whole thing reeks of xenophobia and nationalism. Their intolerance extends not only to Rohingya but also the merest hint of criticism from the “skyful liars” in the foreign media.
http://eversion.news-eleven.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=583:emg-objects-to-article-of-new-york-times-correspondent&catid=42:weekly-eleven-news&Itemid=109
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This article is not true at all.
1. The so-called Rohingyas are never an ethnic minority of Myanmar.
2. There isn’t human right violation on them.
3. There is Rohingya invasion in Arakan State.
4. Rohingyas are not pathetic stateless ethnic minority.
5. They are criminals and terrorists.
6. They rape our women, kill our men, destroy our pagodas and destroy our houses.
7. Rohingya advocates who are well-sponsored by Arab nations are lobbying them into Myanmar.
8. They publish deliberately-deceptive stories of Rohingyas being killed on Arakan land.
9. The truth is Rohingyas are killing the civilians of Myanmar.
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For Rohingya activists (you are one of them), apologists (you are ignoring that those illegal immigrants are now killing our people in Maung Daw), appeasers (you are one of naive, gullible stupid people or a sell-out). Here are the steps to learn a hard fact yourself that you do not exist and some of your ancestors have fabricated or you yourselves are conspirating in it, we understand you, you need land for your people. We will do the same if our country is sinking.
Anyway, it is easy to follow, not rocket science:
1) Go to The National Archives of UK http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
2) Go to Search, then Advanced Search, use “Rohingyar” as a keyword
British are very good in archiving. They meticulously archive their records and their colonial ones. We were their colonial subjects. They ruled Burma, from 1824 (first Anglo-Burman war) to 1947 (till we gain independence). So if Rohingya as a race existed as you claim, British would have recorded. That is the logic here. Refute me if you can. For example, if you search with keyword “Aung San”, you will find archives for years prior to 1947. Using induction logic, if you cannot find any archive with “Rohingya” before 1950. Then you know you are duped or you are trying to dupe us.
3) I searched, I found none, the earliest archive with Rohingya is dated 1991.
This made me claim that “Rohingya is a fabricated race”. It does not exist. Period!
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The reason US does not let in those Jihadist Rohingyas is simply because US Department of State has already learned that 50,000 of Rohingyas are trained terrorists. See here for yourself
[1] US State Department Countries Report on Terrorism – 2008
http://www.wontharnu.com/index.php/article/104-us-state-department-countries-report-on-terrorism-2008
[2] State Department Notes Linkage of Rohingya to Terrorist Group
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/state-department-notes-linkage-of-rohingya-to-terrorist-group/
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Sai
I suggest that before u advice Australian government about to engages with Burma on human rights issues, the very first step should be supporting peace education programs through Australian gov itself.
who said >>>>>>>
‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.’
‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’
‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’
‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’
‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’
‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and Canadian citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths. <<<<<<
1) Burmese gov never force to learn Burmese language to those people.
2) And didn't ask any question about what they belief.
3) Never invite to come like ur Ausi gov.
4) Burmese gov allow those people to go anywhere when they have proper documents but never put on an island.
5) people call them "boat people" because of they sail to other better place to get freedom from Burmese gov abuse But why their population is rapidly grow?
We should not have double standards. Please do more some homework before writing about "Intolerance".
btw, Many thx for Australian Aid recently give by @BobjCarr to Burmese people and schools. We will always remember ur Australian Aid.
I'm afraid that this good relationship between Burmese and Australian People will be spoil just because of ur paper.
Thx for ur understanding.
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I have argued earlier that this invasion of Northern Burma by mass illegal immigration and sophisticated media handling methods, that is playing the
“under-dog” game which aim to beg donors as well as to bag sympathies.
I will provide what made me reach that conclusion.
Danish government refugee agency made a field survey and they have sought advice of Professor Imtiaz Ahmed, Dhaka University, Bangladesh [1]. In our opinion, it is alike asking the fox to guard the hen. I am sure when your country is shrinking as it is sinking undersea, and exploding with high growth population, you will make sure your countrymen to get a new place to stay, perhaps in less populated Burma. So that report adopted heavily the documents of Refugee International, cousin of HRW, RI is be under the control of some Islamists as the son of the president of RI has fallen for Jihadist cause[4].
But what is more interesting, to support the assertion that Professor Ahmed is working with Bangladesh Strategic Think Tank, a government organization, perhaps for the interest of Bangladesh [2]. Another sinking nation Maldives has been asking Australia to allow the resettlement of their people. However, for Bangladesh cannot afford to offer the financial incentives like the PM of Maldives did to Australia, their only alternative is to acquire some land space for her survival [3]. I respect Professor Ahmed and other Rohingyar activists for their love for their co-ethnic brothers but I also need to protect the interests of my Burmese brothers. That made us taking time to comment here.
References:
[1] New to Denmark, Danish Immigration, Fact Finding Report about Rohingya, 2011
http://www.nyidanmark.dk/NR/rdonlyres/B08D8B44-5322-4C2F-9604-44F6C340167A/0/FactfindingrapportRohingya180411.pdf [accessed 11 Junt 2012]
[2] Professor Ahmed work with Bangladesh Institute of International and Strategic Studies
http://www.biiss.org/asia.pdf
[3] Maldive leaders suggest to move Maldive to Australia
http://www.popsci.com.au/science/population-of-the-maldives-could-move-to-australia
[4] A plan to sneak terrorist linked Rohingya refugees into United States using tax payer money
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/state-department-notes-linkage-of-rohingya-to-terrorist-group/
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BY cleverly using a Shan-Burmese sounding Pseudonym like Sai Latt instead of his real name (most likely a Muslim one) the author has portrayed himself as an un-biased and fair-minded analyst and then put out this false analysis basing on internet gossips (one of the rapist-murderers of Khin Thida Htwe is a Buddhist Yakhine) and other Bengali-Muslim innuendos.
The author probably is the one working for that Canadian Anti-Burma group calling themselves ADDB (Associates to Develop Democratic Burma) and now taking petrol dollars from OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) by agreeing to sell part of Arrakan state to Bangli-Muslims (so-called Rohingyas).
He could even be working directly for that notorious Shan traitor Harn Yawnghwe who is the leading man in selling that part of Arrakan (the Butheedaung-Maungdaw District) to the OIC to establish a so-called Rohingya County of Bangladesh and advocating the OIC to directly fund the Muslim invasion of our Burma.
Burmese-German citizen Aung Than Oo of FBE (Forum for Burmese in Europe) has exposed that Harn Yawnghwe for who he really is in his detail report at this link.
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2011/10/rohingyas-harn-yawnghwe-vested.html
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Thanks for all of these comments:
What some of you voicing extreme views may not realise is that your comments on a site like New Mandala are read widely and then taken as exemplary of the rhetoric and mindsets in this conflict . For the record, there have been comments in the past few days that we can’t publish — they advocate violence or otherwise fail any standard of common decency and humanity.
Clearly Burma needs leadership to navigate away from the precipice at this tragic time. I think we all hope that those in positions to take charge of this situation resist the temptation to indulge the vitriol of the haters. Burma deserves much better.
I would also suggest that the personal attacks against Sai Latt serve no useful argumentative purpose. Sai Latt has sought to present a reasoned analysis of an emotive and contentious topic. Aggression against him merely reinforces his thesis about intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma today.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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The author’s assertion that there is no organization behind Rohingya is not
correct. OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries), a rich man club, is the main sponsor behind Rohingya activists and apologists. See how they have mingled together below:
[1] Rohingyas, Harn Yawnghwe [a prominent Shan activist], and Fraudulent Claims?
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com.au/2011/10/rohingyas-harn-yawnghwe-vested.html
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Thank you Sai Latt for giving us a fairly objective and balanced update on the situation developing in the Rakhine state based on observations of ‘netizens’ attitude. Some of the comments posted here clearly supports some of the points Sai is making. I find it very saddening and disturbing to see many so called human right/democratic activists keeping quiet on this very tense issue and failing to take a principled stand against clearly racist attitudes toward the Rohingyas. Irrespective of ones position in considering whether the Rhoingyas should be considered ‘fake’ or part of Myanmar ethnic group, attempts at dehumanizing a whole community of people is clearly racist. Above all many of the so called ‘scientific approach’ to classifying human ethnicity during European colonialism has been shown over all over again as arbitrary and often planting the seed of later ethnic violence and genocide- think Rwanda.
Anyway some of the comments posted here clearly supports Sai’s observation regarding internet hysteria and open racism. Of course many of these comments are comparable to the yellow Royalists seeing their fellow Red Thais as water buffaloes and not deserving to be of equal human status, or back to the Rwanda case the infamous ‘tutsi cockroaches.’
Obviously all concerned people should stop adding more fuel to an already almost out-of-control flame, but let’s call what’s happening in Rakhine what it is, a classic communal violence brought about by ignorance, bigotry, and above all poverty and social frustration.
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I live in Myanmar and I am frightened by the hatred I have observed this past week, amongst local Buddhist friends and respected human rights advocates alike.
The hatred so many Myanmar people are throwing at Muslims these days will only fuel any radicalization trend, which puts the whole world at greater risk. Which came first for these fringe groups, their miserable, oppressed lives or their extremism?
As an American, I have lived through the actual experience of terrorist attack. We had to learn that tolerance, education, and respect were our best defenses. For every act of retaliation against Muslim Americans, there were thousands of acts of peace. The majority of us disagreed with the ensuing wars that followed in Afghanistan and Iraq, which we knew could not be won.
Some may claim that our powerful military defense and intelligence have protected our country from subsequent outside attacks, but I believe it is our day to day tolerance and coexistence that have prevented racial and ethnic divisions in our society from deepening. I wish I could say the same for Myanmar.
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Perhaps NM readers should be reminded at this point what Dr Aye Chan the Arakanese Rakhine historian has said in his riposte to history being rewritten.
He also co-authored Influx Virus – The Illegal Muslims in Arakan which led to an online debate with Dr Abid Bahar who appears to be neither Rohingya nor Arakanese Muslim himself.
In an opinion piece by Francis Wade in Aljazeera he asked the rhetorical question when:
a) Those Burmese in Thailand do not claim to be indigenous, nay earlier settlers of the land than the native Thai themselves like the Rohingya did in the Arakan.
b) They do not plan and plot to carve out an independent/autonomous state within their host society like the Rohingya did in the Arakan.
c) They happen to be Buddhist and Mongolian just like the native Thai.
tocharian #18
Wonder if it has ever occurred to you that for Asians there is no eye or hair colour to talk about except peroxide bleach, grey or bald. Inevitably all shades of skin colour remains the main topic of conversation, and the lighter the better is the general consensus as you rightly pointed out.
You also know full well that skin colour is only secondary to behaviour on the part of the alien other as far as the Burmese are concerned. Not that they will readily let their daughters marry an Indian or a black man, naturally, even if some of us are as dark as charcoal or the monk’s alms bowl as they would say. Mongolian races see the physical difference in others as much as those others see it in them.
Proselytising religions the Burmese definitely are no fans of, Muslim or Christian. Territorial claims based on a bogus history by the so called Rohingya made the alienation exponentially worse. Interfering outsiders had better beware of that.
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@Jessie , @Mandy or whatever you name yourselves – trolls as you are
If you want to troll claiming to be an American, you should learn how to write English first. I suspect you and several others are Rohingyar activists. If you want to claim that you are an American, first learn how to write like a native American. You guys are more likely to be pathetic Rohingyar trolls and their apologists.
This is academic forum, so stop using your templates:
“I am Missy Messy, I am an Rohingcan (sorry Amer-ree-kan) and big bad
Burmese are making me frightened with their big tools”
“Author is right, Rohing liers are not lying, bad bad Burmese are lying, they
are not kind, they dont give up their land, their country easily. So we have to try very very hard, some of us even set fire to their homes, some of our brothers are provoking Burmese so that they can become martyrs for our cause. Please please Burmese are commenting against us because we have killed, raped and attacking them for years silently”
“Sai Babu is doing PhD, you guys are not, so please shut up, without permanent head damage you cannot write a biased essay” [This is not a paper but an opinionated essay for those who do not know, that means nothing!]
“Buddha said that, Buddha said this, Buddha will feel sad for Buddhists protecting their own land and their families” [Who says every commenter who state facts, provide evidence are Buddhists or even Burmese, you might have made a lot of enemies and I do not think you are one of the most loved people]
If you cannot create new templates then stop using them. Bore of seeing them!
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Hi Nich,
Thx for ur reminder.
Thesis? Honestly, I dont think so. Because of so many wrong , unfair and inaccurate facts.
First of all, as u all know there r so many fake FB account for some purposes. That’s mean not reliable to get people real expression.
1) While Reuters report that victims number is only 1 digit (9 people)and Sai count 2 digit (11 people). http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/04/us-myanmar-violence-idUSBRE8530CW20120604 If other sources report 11 people, should be refer to that source.
2) I have so many black-skinned (Buddhist or Muslim) friends and sometime I called them “Hay Kalar”. means “Hi Buddy”. It is just normal for them.
3) And there are many unproven link like “Alternative source:one of rapist is blah blah blah” “There are report: people with device usually use by security officer” . (Reader may think this is Sai’s idea)
4) I am wonder how those people with limited supporter, leaders, parties, media can have own army.
5) Not Fair : only Blame on one side like Narinjara and Eleven and never mention about other’s side (Sorry, I forgot his word ” they have no media”) But please see this http://yspacemedia.blogspot.com/2012/06/facebook-illusions-facebook.html (www.kaladanpress.org also fuel this event)
Finally, Nich, u remarked about personal attacks against Sai but PLEASE take note that there are so many personal attacks to other well-known people like (Ashin Wirathu, Dr. Aye Chan , Dr. Aye Kyaw , Khin Maung Saw) without any evidence.
My conclusion: this paper is only fuel for those hater. Please stop publishing like this article.
Good Job Ko Sai, Finally u got public attention.
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To Jerusalem!!
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Aung said, and I quote “The reason US does not let in those Jihadist Rohingyas is simply because US Department of State has already learned that 50,000 of Rohingyas are trained terrorists. See here for yourself”.
Well I tell you how I know he is lying. I know that two cousins of a Rohingya family, used to be next door neighbor in Burma, recently got Political Asylum in US. One was less than 4 years ago, meaning the link provided gave no reliable information that Rohingyaa are terrorists. If any, they have been victims ever since military government of 1962.
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For the record, I, Mandy (a) Nyungt Oo Swe states that I am originally from Burma but not a Rohingya. Mandy is my given name at birth and Nyunt oo Swe was an official name used growing up. I pout the name “Mandy” because the Burmese in USA know me as Mandy and I have no reason to hide when I say what must be said about the victimization of the RohingyaMuslims by the so called Buddhists of Burma, both in Arakan as well as the while nation including those Buddhsits screaming for democracy, begging the world to help them get freedom while they do not think twice about the sufferings of the fellow human beings Rohingyas. Shame on you people, nationalistic and xenophobic as ever and have no clue that patriotism doesn’t mean you can turn a blind eye on having compassion.
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There are several issues happening at once, as usual. Again it is explosive so that every one would be wise to trim the edges.
Problem with personal attack is that it takes away the chance to say the main point of argument.
But this is the sort of time emotion boils over and latent hatred surfaces.
Popular Buddhist bashing is one example. These Burmese Buddhist are not kind afterall, cruel, inconsiderate, not really Buddhist, ect are repeated by a lot of bystanders. But having solid and impenetrable proof that all Burmese are total trash would still not help the Burmese to live peacefully with any other people.
Nicholas Ferrally himself quoted by Francis Wade in the articel U Moe Aung # 50 attached claiming the Muslims are not accorded respect by the Burmese like the Christian minority is unhelpful.
There are more mosques than churches in Burma and Muslim pupolation of Indian and Chinese decent are more incorporated into mainstream social ansd financial fabric of Burmese society than Christians of any sorts. For example, one literally cannot deal with gold in Burma without dealing with Muslim dealerships whereas whereas there is no particular business or social sphere the Christians are indispensable.
More Burmese would have been to Eide feast everywhere in the country than to any Christian’s house for any reason. Not that Christians are not important or aloof, simply the degree of integration. Historically there have been both Christian and Muslim leaders in Burmese society and many a Muslim donations were done voluntarily to Buddhist shrines all over Burma.
If one walks in a market place in towns, the colonial masters called bazaars- there surely will be Muslin traders and customers at any given time.
Remember the Hindu’s are Kalar as well. And they are also very incorporated in the social fabric. No Chinese Hindu though!
The main facets of the current crises are:
1. The segment of population claiming victimhood here has physically threatening existence, either real or perceived, on both sides for decades if not centuries with obviously things not getting better but worse with time.
2. Majority of them, but not all, are effectively excluded from mainstream society and economic opportunites living in dire poverty.
3. They are often subjected to inhumane treatment by the authorities although they do not have the monopoly of state victim hood in good old, authoritarian Burma. In some sense because there has never been all out war around them and there has never been lucrative black market trade or opium involved, they are far better off than the Karen and Kachin.
4. As they are essentially exactly the same as their brethren acorss the river, the other local populace and the people of the rest of the country feel that their numbers will swell in an instant at any little opportunity. For example, there is no way to determine who are the people originating in Burma from the people who are really of Bangladeshi origin reminescent of the differentiation between the Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda.
5. There are well documented links of Al-Kaida with arms training an a segment of the population which certainly was enough to make the Americans worry.
6. There was never any serious attempt by either Burmese government or Bangladesh government to settle this problem. This results in disadvantage a large number of population with India as a bemused spectator.
7. There is a large international NGO industry spawned from this predicament with large amount of money and livelihoods involved apart from the people of the region.
8. There are separate large group of vocal people who have ideological conviction forcing people in the ground to adhere to their ideals, not necessarily helping any particular involved party.
9. There is dire lack of global leadership in morality.
When the international governments clamouring for international criminal court proceedings for the Burmese military leadership immediately change their tune to support them simply because of opening up the country for business, there is more than enough ground not to trust any body any more.
None of the above invlolves the Burmese trying to wipe out the whole islamic faith off the earth as some would like the world to believe or the people of the north of Arakan are unique in suffering in country Burma.
Could we address some of the issues stated?
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Buddha Gotama was born in Central India amid other religious leaders wish him not to be enlightnement. After he passed away for 2555 years as todate, his institution is merely surivied in India and regions. The Buddha Gotama lived with inner-peace. His fellow monks are also tought to live within inner-peace. However, other religous leaders and sect of belivers attacked and destroyed Buddha Gotama’s temples and towns. As today, India is a place of ancient for his beautifual teaching for kindness and share the gain of inner-peace. If human could not find inner-peace within, all form of violence will be occur as we have been witnessing this week and in the past century of Burma’s sorry land. Evil act is a sin but the rule of laws will only achieved if human find peace within and share the pain and gain equally.
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I am not sure who is that Mr. Sai Soe Win Latt, who is a PhD candidate at the Simon Fraser University in Canada and his thesis topics is about the hydro dam and discipline is Geography. I understand he will be emotional for his people but we too are.
Burmese, Rakhines are our Burmese, are probably more emotional as we are more to lose. It is not the land belong to Chittagongnians – for respect of Bengali of different faith such as Tagore (Hindu), Yunus (Islam) and Amatya San (Buddhist?), I will use the word Chittagongian as they are from Chittagong, Bangladesh. It is Burmese land, Burmese are losing in media front, this is one such example and they do not know how to play under-dog which Chittagongians have practised and perfected over years.
So they are frustrated, they do not know how to play that victim game while they are being victimised by Chittagongians. So they just release their anger here. So this is their first time, not experienced in stealing land by mass immigration so forgive my people New Mandala!
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In Burmese, there is a word for Miss Pollyanna, “Myit-tar-shin-ma-lay Nyein Nyein Ei” who talks about love and peace. But we are not living in a perfect world, so real-world Pollyanna will have a sore bottom, a reamed orifice and a choked throat with some thick bodily liquids. That is what it is. If we were living in the perfect world where we could fix everything by reason and logic, then we will not need aircraft carriers, UAVs, IEDs, AK-47s and RPGs.
Although some people like to portray this as an intolerance, this is not religious at all. We are talking about invasion and illegal immigration, we are talking about law and order, we are talking about economics. This is politics and in politic, all parties will try their best, Rohingyas will try to pull in Burmese muslims while Burmese have no choice but to high light that they are not one of us – and that does not need an elaborate proof. Burmese are threading the thin line, we have to counter their accusations while making sure that our arguments are within the sensitivities of our muslims, Burmese muslims. We are happy now that Ko Mya Aye, a prominent Burmese muslim leader has officially denounced that Rohingyas are not Burmese but Bengalis.
But for those useful idiots or appeasers of foreign invaders, I don’t think you guys should be proud of what you are doing. It is very easy to be a liberal, a Pollyanna with “Za Lote” (Adam’s apple) but I but even such Mr. Pollyanna will still get sore bottom when the time come. It is harder to say a spade a spade because it is easy t accuse someone as racist and for the accused it is not a winning game even when you were defending your position. That is why we do not see so many Dr. Aye Chan, whom we respect a lot, who fought for Ko Mya Aye’s freedom but we do have more of pseudo intellectuals who go the easy path, acting like Pollyanna with a “Za Lote Kyee” (big bulging Adam’s Apple). On social networks, there are a lot acting and competing to become liberals, I think they are playing “Useful Idiot” game to quote late USSR leader Stalin’s words for some ultra liberals.
Some of them flaunt their professional degrees, overseas degrees, or some even with lowly undergraduate diploma compete one another to show off liberal credentials – we have seen enough accusations “Anyone who is not accepting Rohingya is a racist” and one has to stay academic and factual to defend oneself that going-against Rohingy is no racist. Been there, done that, no surprise. It is harder to say a spade a spade than sugar coating and act like apologist. If anyone can prove that there is one document mentioning “Rohingya” prior 1945 in British national archives [Search->Advanced Search-> at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ as it is free of charge] and British are only second to Germans in record keeping.
Last not least, we are liberals ourselves but when it come to our country interest and sovereign we will protect our interests. And we want our leaders to act for our interests and that is the way it should be. We, Burmese, will practise non-discrimination laws, we will take care of one another, we will respect each other. But doing those things is one thing, swallowing the terrorists’ payload mouthful is another. We are not born to swallow anything. We may be stupid, sensational Burmese but we are who we are. Burma is playing with the rules of the international game. We are on the right side.
For those who think that it is trendy to be Pollyanna. Pause and think, it is very easy to be an apologist or appeaser. It is harder to tell truth, keeping facts and staying as scholastic and intellectual as possible while discussing an inevitably emotional issue where misinformation is the norm and rule while accurate and timely information is exception.
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link to AP wire service article about Bangladesh authorities refusing to accept and sending back boats loaded with Rohingya refugees fleeing violence in Myanmar:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/12/bangladesh-sends-back-muslims-fleeing-myanmar/
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What? To seek the truth but the truth, whether Rohingya race exist?
Where? National archive UK holds 1,000, yes one thousand years of UK government records online with search engine
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
When? This is the name of the race, they said exisit since 1000 AD
Date: from 1800 to 1950
How? Using search keywords: “Rohingya AND Rohing”
Why why? Because Burma was British colony and so was India, also today Bangladesh is part of British India so the rationale is that if there were a Rohingya or Rohing ethnic race existed, our British government must have recorded
Result: “We did not find results for your search”
For your convenience, copy and paste to browser, click below:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/search_results.aspx?Page=1&ContainAnyWord=Rohing&ExactPhrase=Rohingya&DateFrom=1800&DateTo=1950&SelectedDatabases=A2A|ARCHON|BOOKSHOP|CABPAPERS|DOCUMENTSONLINE|EROL|MOVINGHERE|NRA|NRALISTS|PREM19|RESEARCHGUIDES|E179|CATALOGUE|WEBSITE|TRAFALGAR&SearchType=Advanced
Discussion: Rohingya never exist, it is a ploy by Bengalis. Rohingya is a fabricated race. They are trying to grab land from Burma using all tools available in invader’s tool kit such as coercion, terrorism (I can provide hard facts if anyone interested), convincing (using rhetorics such as human rights, peace, love, kindness, mercy, tolerance, etc..), mass immigration and over-breeding than unwilling local hosts.
Conclusion: Anyone who claims to be an intellectual, who claims to hold a university degree yet fail to see that Rohing Nyars are not Burmese are either their guys (Rohingya themselves), their appeasers (who love to please them, appease them) or apologists (who will blame everything to Burmese and portray the villains, invasion force called Rohingya as victims)
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Bigotry, abound here @ New Mandala, from all sides, belies the real issues.
The issues of:
1) Long overdue ‘rule of law’ in this case ‘immigration laws’/Citizenship within Myanmar.
2) Remedies to the most basic of Human Right: Freedom from poverty.
This repeated senseless, denial of and debating the legitimacy of the identity “Rohingyia”, as part of the Citizenry/Burmese Muslim citizen within the borders, underscores the very basic of Humanity:
The right to exist under any name.
This recurrent tragic episode with accompanying sordid depravities, must remind the Thein Sein government as well as the West in the urgency to the ‘Rule of Law’ within Myanmar.
Proper ‘Rule of Law’, neglected by any government promotes anarchy, unacceptable none Humanity based conducts.
Any none Humanity based conducts, assure the genesis and perpetuity of continuing animosities among different ethnic groups of a Citizenry.
A Citizenry already deprived of the most basic of Human Right.
Made worst by the decades of the West policy of yesteryear.
Such sectarian violence rarely if ever occurred when every ethnicity enjoy relative peace and economic prosperity.
As in the city of Maulamyain with a large proportion of Burmese Muslims citizen.
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The sentiments expressed and the conflict described here go back into the depths of human prehistory, which was dominated by one wave of migration after another, starting in Africa and quickly reaching every habitable corner of the earth. Overpopulation, the driver of evolution and of migration, has always been with us. Darwin needed Malthus’ idea to formulate his own. In the whole of human existence there have been only brief periods affected by epidemics or by technological advance (e.g. agriculture, the green revolution) in which population pressure has been relieved.
Viewed in this way, the only satisfactory answer to migration-conflict seems to be keeping population in check by changing the role of women from mainly reproduction to mainly cultural/economic activity. One can fully understand the resentment against Islam in this context, because of its very real potential to out-populate more enlightened cultures by forcibly confining women to a reproductive role. Liberating women is greatly preferable to reducing population by other means.
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R. N. England,
This was an enlightened and insightful comment even though the party line for the international community has been sound condemnation of these discriminative, hypocritical, dishonourable Buddhists at this time of their own misery and crisis.
Being neighbour to 150 million over crowded poverty driven people in a literally sinking nation does incite Burmese public apprehension made worse by demand for a separate “Pakiston” on a piece of the land they fought hard for.
Name, religion, race are simply outward expressions with never ending historical arguments avoiding the real issues.
Paucity of amicable interrelationship reinforces the fear and animosity.
Still it is incumbent on the government of the day to determine who should or should not be recognized as citizens and prevent abuse of the system as well as treat and support all the citizens to be peaceful and productive members of the society.
All crisis carries opportunities. This time round simple support of ALL injured parties would go a long way to amend the bridge and the firmly incorporated community will itself serve as deterrent against opportunistic encroachers.
By the way, the description of “more enlightened culture” though is by own defination and a touch indulgent.
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winlwin said “We’ve been living peacefully for years with different religions in our country, because we, 135 ethnics groups, share some common belief, religions, or traditions between us.”
Tell that to Karens, especially the Karen Christians and Kachin (Christians especially), etc. and last but not least, the Rakhines (Arakan) Buddhists.
What a joke!
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R. N. Englland said “out-populate more enlightened cultures”.
Obviously, like mosts wetsreners, he thinks Muslims represent a homogeneous group of people. Secondly, he has no clue that how industrious Rohingyas are, like Jews. Thirdly, it is amusing that he thinks that the decendants of Bengalis mixed with the descendants of Turkish and Arab via Muslim settlements that predated the founding of the First Bamar Kingdom are culturally inferior to those who would still be living a primitive form of life if the Bengal was not instrumental in disseminating culture to what is now Arakan and in fact all Burma. Talk about not having a clue.
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What a load of crap “Long Live Burma” wrote totally ignoring the genocidal atrocities that Rohingyas have suffered since the coup of Ne Win to this date.
Now that Internet has carried the news of the genocidal plot that have been unleashed upon these Rohingya people, the perpetrators are desperate to portray these Rohingyas as terrorists as if there is no relaible source for such information.
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Hi Mandy Babu or Nyunt Oo Abdul
I can understand your need to cover the easily observable reality that you guys are not invading Burma, deliberatly multiplying in great numbers in addition to mass illegal immigration and multiplication of your numbers – while UN recognized Burma born refugees stand at only 80,000 your activists and leaders give self contradicting numbers – may I suggest why dont you give 150 millions just in case your fatherland Bangladesh sunk under sea then you all can move into Burma. How convenient will it be for your brothers across the Naff river? Unfortunately there are people like us, who are protecting our own brothers. This is politics and not race or religion. We have Bengali buddies who disapprove of you guys more than we do, it is like an African American can use the “N” word.
It seems that you do not have substance to counter my claims so you sought style. You can use your tried-and-true, straight out of old cookbook rheotics such as U Ne Win bambued your grand mother and aunts in tandem nonstop for 100 days and so on but not with us now, we have been suffering your covert invasion for 100 years and high profile agression for weeks and we know that who you are, terrorist invaders across the border.
Let me share you a famous Indian joke, Indian says that they do big favour to Pakistan by splitting Bangladesh. And we are sharing with your country. We want to be good neighbours but some of you from Chittagong cannot content with free stay in our country, ploughing our land, eating our grains, etc.. Now you want more and that led to this conflict.
While Arakanese are murdered everyday silently we swallowed our anger because we do not want to make our muslim and muslimahs countrymen uncomfortable and your invaders exploit our weakness. Now our leaders Ko Ko Gyi and Ko Mya Aye, our Muslim, officially announced that you guys are just Bengalis across our western border.
This answer Plan B (for reaming his bottom till soreness) claim that it is not time for discussing Bengalis equal to Rohingya. It is proven and so now the question is how to save our locals (of all religions) and lands from this foreign invasion of expansionist Bengalis.
Long live Burma and down with the invader Rohingyas!!!
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Please check yourself. Are you guilty of confirmation bias? I have read your article and you said like the whole country is anti-Islam. While I admit that many Burmese are nationalists, Rohingya are also not poor refugees like many Western countries assume. They have their own agenda and are now distributing propaganda elsewhere.
Many foreign agencies interview them and say “army kills 100 Rohingya” “Army helps Rakhine burns Rohingya houses” “Genocide in Rakhine” etc. All these are part of an elaborated campaign. Check out http://www.kaladanpress.org whose “Chief Editor” has been interviewed by VOA. They have “photos” depicting “Rohingya” deaths. STOP. Don’t quickly assume what you see is truth. Use Google similar image search function. You will now know that Muslim deaths from all over the world have been reported as “Rohingya”. Worse. I have seen photos about deaths from My Lai massacre are reported as Rohingya deaths. How funny!
Also, I don’t think you understand Burmese. Many local news agencies have reported retaliations by Rakhine. Eleven reported that “Rakhine burn houses in Bohmu village in retaliation.”
Don’t let your contempt mislead you. Good luck.
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Pls NO Religious War! We are Burmese
A Burmese’s (Myanmar’s) request to all Medias : “Stop Pushing a Religion War to my Country” By Htet T San
This post is entitled to all the medias who are responsible for the news they are creating which are recently concerned with the latest news with Rohingya people in my country.
My name is Htet San, a born and raised artist from Burma (Myanmar).
It’s been a world known fact that my country was suppressed by Juntas for decades and only recently, the people from Burma and the country itself are starting to get brighter hopes for their future, the hopes arising from the positive reforms of the country. I am one of those majority with high expectations who want to see my native land shines with the hopeful smiles of the people again.
Even though Burma does not have a fully functional democracy yet, there’s never a racist problem among the people living in there. We have our own freedom of choice for religion and different people with many different religions, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims and many others, are living inside the country very peacefully.
Recently, riots between the Rohingya people and our ethnic group, Arakanese are happening in the North West part of the country. There are scandals created by outsiders and some countries that “Rohingyas” as one of our ethnics groups and nationality but in fact, they are merely the descendants and refugees of Bengali. Our historians have proved historically on that topic and if any scholar is in doubt, they would be happy to explain with facts.
Many countries accuse Burma of not respecting human rights for Rohingyas but it’s only Burma who let them stay in our ground for many decades. But, demanding to give away a national territory and an ethnic identity is the matter beyond humanitarian concerns that a nation has to consider for its own people. I want to ask all the human rights activists, developed countries and medias who are forcing Burma to do such giveaways. What will your countries do in that case? Will you even let them stay in your ground? Why are you all pushing to accept more burdens to a small country which has very limited resources for its own people ?
Rohingya people are currently burning down many of our villages and killing our ethnics people. Majority of the locals became homeless in addition to their already harsh lives.
What is the responsibility of a nation when it’s national security is threatened?
Burma is not declaring a war against any race or religion . It’s true Rohingyas are muslims. But, the concept of the respond act is not fighting against the Islamic community and Muslims. Burmese government is just protecting our ethnics groups from Rohingya’s violent attacks. But, some of the medias don’t see this concept as exciting enough.
Starting from BBC, VOA, RFA, DVB, even Reuters and New York Times, whenever I read the news, the headlines about this incident is titled as “Buddhists Vs Muslims” or “Burmese Vs Muslims”. Some medias even stated initially that “ Rohingya’s abuse as Burma’s attack”. People in Burma already stated publicly that this is not the case against religion. Even the Musilm Associations in Burma announced that they agree Rohingya’s actions as violent attacks. We have statements ready to prove.
But, are our voices not loud enough or just plainly neglected?
Foreign medias keep spreading propaganda about Burma having religious conflicts within the region and making statements against the truth that can worsen the country’s situation right now. It’s like all the major medias are trying to shift the attention of the Islamic community around the world to Burma and pushing a major religion war to happen inside the country.
Is it intentional or ignorance?
I understand the fact that picking up the controversial ideas would make a news piece interesting but what if that idea doesn’t tell the truth and gonna make things worse? Isn’t the medias’ responsibility to investigate the facts properly before announcing a news to the world? Or, being able to grab more attention and increased rating is the modern value of journalism?
Medias have a great power to shape the world. What if what you wrote would cost more wars and ruin more lives? Will you write the same thing if your little son or daughter, your beloved husband/wife or your elderly father and mother is in the war zone? I highly doubt if any of those writers who wrote recent news about Burma that I mentioned above had a real life experience living in Burma. If you have never been in someone’s shoes, be careful in your guessing games. Sitting comfortably in your chair writing made-up stories about recent news without proper knowledge and experience will not make you realize the real truth like Rohingyas burnt their own houses first before they burn Arakans’ to manipulate the media about them being abused.
I don’t think the primary intention of people who study journalism is to create more wars and kill more people with your pen. Please be careful.
I am deeply very sorry about all the lives that cost from both sides of this riot. Like Rohingyas, there are also lakhs of burmese refugees living in the borderline of Thailand-Burma. But, have you ever heard such an issue of Burmese refugees’ abusive action towards the host country? I understand that Rohingyas are also human beings and wish no further harm would be involved to them. We oppose to Genocide but, like every country in the world, Burma also has principles to those who broke the laws.
I read an opinion piece on Aljazeera article today. It’s very amusing to see how the writer judged on Burma based on peoples’ angry comments on Facebook that makes me want to question him. How would you react first if your mother was stabbed on her back? How did the whole world react first when World Trade Center crashed down? The sudden furious state of mind in respond to the news of their relatives and friends’ getting hurt doesn’t mean Burmese as racists and Burma as a racist country. At least, we are not invading other countries and declaring a war. We are protecting our people. If you are not familiar with the law of religion freedom in Burma , welcome to our country. From
http://htettsan.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/a-burmese-artists-request-to-all-medias-stop-pushing-a-religion-war-to-my-country-2-2/
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Biased reportings and promotions for Rohingya invaders’ cause by Burmese exile medias such as DVB, Irrawaddy, BBC Burmese made Burmese and Rakhines develop siege mentality. A good analysis in Burmese below:
Is western gate broken to hold illegal alien influx?
Khaing Lin (May Ga Waddi)
http://www.hittai.net/index.php?show=rm&fileid=166&t=home5&id=5
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Not quite right but now media are accepting the spade as a spade, Rohingyas are Bengalis. A lot of Arakanese and Burmese have paid their lives, blood, insomani, lost familiies, abandoned careers for getting to this stage! We are at war, Burma is under attack and invaders are still being treated with kids glooves. Sharing an analysis by B. Raman [not Aung Myo impersonating as B. Raman like Sai Babu did not so brilliantly]
Violence In Rakhine State Of Myanmar: Likely Implications
-The Muslims of Indian and Chinese origin have had no problems in integrating themselves with the rest of the society. The Muslims of Bangladeshi origin, known as Rohingyas, who speak Bengali, and who live in the Rakhine State in the areas bordering Bangladesh
-The Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami of Bangladesh, normally referred to as HUJI (B), had played an active role in the jihad against the Soviet and Afghan troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Its members studied in the Pakistani madrasas and fought as members of different Afghan mujahideen groups, after having been trained by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). The HUJI (B) also recruited a number of Rohingya Muslims from the Arakan area of Myanmar and took them to Afghanistan for fighting against the Soviet and Afghan troops.
The link:
http://www.eurasiareview.com/11062012-violence-in-rakhine-state-of-myanmar-likely-implications-analysis/
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How come some of you believe in facebook?
Think before you talk.
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The people who are migrated to Myanmar before 1823 were stated as ethnics but rohingers were migrated after 1900. Therefore, they can be the citizens but can’t be the ethnic in Myanmar. Using facebook comments are not useful in writing an article. Talking about human right, rakhine people also should have the right to stay peacefully in their motherland. Please when you are about to write use critical thinking and use reliable sources to reference. Think both sides before criticizing the situation. The paper shouldn’t be criticizing to one side only. Talking about human right, developed countries even have discrimination. Many Myanmar people are raped, killed and abused as labor in the Thai-Burma border in the past. We all know it. We should provide a better place for everybody not to caused more hatefulness. Besides, don’t confused the use of Rohinger and Muslims. Don’t make it religious conflict because IT IS NOT.
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I am ashamed to call myself a Burmese right now. With attitudes like what many have expressed here, I believe many of you should live under the military regime. Especially those who migrated to other countries because of what happened in Burma. Shame on you people. You cry human rights when it fits you. Imagine yourself being subjected to racism or hate crimes because of your background in those countries.
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Zaw Tun
Give us substance, do not use same old Rohingya’s template, Burmese diaspora are everywhere and living and working here and there blah blah blah.
No Burmese are claiming that we are natives and therefore indigenous rights:
1) No Burmese in America demands we build mounds in Iowa and we were earlier than American Indians
2) No Burmese in Europe claims that we were Attila the Huns, or we were the guys who kicked the asses of Turks in Vienna on hundreds of years ago
3) No Burmese in Canada claim that we Burmese taught Eskimos how to build Igloos
4) No Burmese in Japan claimed that we taught Samurais how to use swords
Everywhere we go, we live and mix with locals, we are not problem makers.
But you ask yourself. I suspect you are more likely to be an appeaser who loves to have a sore bottom and reamed orifices as it is easier in the morning to go toilet; ain’t you, don’t feel shy, we know who you are! We see you on FB
with your comments sucking foreign invaders even in this times of Myanmar being raped, arsoned and robbed by terrorist jihadists.
Please stop insulting our intelligence as you have been insulting our kind generosity, tolerance and it is time for you to chance and not us who has to change for you. But I am not surprised as Indias are shooting your guys too.
Check the borders and shoot to kill policy of West Bengal government. I repeat West Bengal government. West Bengal share Bangladeshis to whom Chittagongians belong to share same ethnic roots, and they demanded to shoot you if you stray across the border. So your Tibeto-Burman Arakanese and Burmese are not as mean as your co-ethnicists and you are still complaining.
Shame on you.
At least if you cannot show your gratitude, show us your sincerity. We can understand you need a land to live as your region is sinking and you have nothing to offer to us apart from your virility – not sure you or your neighbours’s virility though – and appetite for breeding. While we can understand your activists’ zeal and commitments but some of those Miss Pollyana’s, our charlatons, or maggots’ (A-thar-hte-ka-lout) love for thick bodily fluid is what made us think. Sometimes we suspect your mothers are taught you to love those thick and dripping oozing liquids.
Last not least, we should thank our Ko Sai or Sai Babu for his blog, this is not a peer-review paper nor edited article but a blog, as it gives us a platform for sharing our opinions. Some of us may have academic credentials and some of us may hold public offices but since it is easier to act Miss Pollyanam with Zalote Kyee (Adam’s Apple), we always welcome this opportunities to share our thoughts to chime in. Comments are gold and articles are just attractors for commentors as we understand it. Finally, thanks to New Mandala for its efforts to understand more about SEA issues. Good job indeed although it might be better to post a more balanced, throughly researched article. Why dont you ask Dr. Aye Chan. He may have a different opinion too.
P.S. All those Miss Pollyanas with Zalotekyees we are observing you too and making fun of you, how you are competing one another to suck your PaHtwes.
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There have so many fake accounts in Facebook created by so-called Rohingya & government men too. They added me every days & I checked their profile, it is newly opened recently & all are fake including profile photo. We need our guys to analyze like this & report in famous world media. You will see some Myanmar point out how they made fakes photo of dead guys. Those Muslim Rohingya have planned all of this for long time ago. They have in touch each others by private links. So others don’t know their dirty plan. They also put their people in media agencies, UN, NGO & organization and also they can buy VIP in many countries. For local connection, they have advantage is that they can meet each others in Mosque on every Friday & policy makers can direct what they wanted details to their people. We don’t have, so we are weak. Now UN officer came to Myanmar yesterday & we saw the news today but Muslim leaders had already prepared their plan to travel with officer in advance. They will guide UN officer what they wanted to be. Don’t you think anything wrong in this case. Finally we will lost our country because we are not united.
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Zaw Htun,
Of course Burmese Immigrants now living in the western societies know very well racism and hate crimes.
Once I read a result of survey done among foreign Asian Students studying in Sydney and they found more than 50% of them are the victims of what the scholars would call the racial incidents. A couple of respondents were even later found killed.
In any US or Australian or European big cities if a brown or yellow man walked on a wrong street at wrong time he could lose his existence just because he has a wrong skin.
Only then one realizes the importance of living among his own people. And the importance of the continued existence of his people. That is the reason oversea Burmese are the loudest defending his people on forum like this in a time like now.
Just ask the Jewish people of New York if you don’t believe me!
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There are over 100 races living in Myanmar. But Rohingya is not one of them. Besides, there has never been such word as Rohingya in Myanmar history. So, who are Rohingyas? They are simply Bengalis. They are from Bangladesh. If someone doubts it, I would like to welcome him for a DNA test.
The history of Rohingyas is worse than the Palestinians because they were abandoned by their own mother land, Bangladesh. No other race in the world will be as pitiful as Rohingyas, the abandoned Begalis. They have been living around the border area between Bangladesh and Rakhine, a western state of Myanmar. Moving from places to places where more favorable working conditions were present, they have been sitting on the fence between Bangladesh and Myanmar. Thanks to loose immigration control at the border area for several decades, they managed to acquire both citizenships for Bangladesh and Myanmar. When Bangladesh became more and more crowded due to population explosion, and less and less fortunate enough to find a suitable living, Rohingyas came to choose the Rakhine State as their permanent dwelling place. Add to this, their ambition did not stop there. The homeless people is now finding a new step-mother, Myanmar.
Rohingyas are shouting at the top of their voice, ” We are Myanmars.” ” We are Myanmars.” I would like to reply to their shouts in the same degree of noise. “NO WAY, ROHINGYAS!” You are not Myanmars. We will never accept that you are Myanmars. Blood is blood. Race is race. You can never change it. Rohingya issue was caused by the presence of a bad neighbor which is Bangladesh. It has been a burden for Myanmar as she herself has to deal with her own internal problems. Rohingyas are homeless; and they are orphans. Myanmar is like an orphanage house to those Rohingyas. I would like to repeat the main reason for their misfortune is that their mother country has abandoned them. So, why do the international community want to point their fingers at Myanmar? It is very very ridiculous. They should even thank Myanmar for allowing Rohingyas to stay inside Myanmar although they are not Myanmar citizens. We are nothing to do with Rohingyas.
Myanmar is just a scapegoat to be blamed upon. From humanity point of view, we absolutely feel sympathized with Rohingyas because they are Bengalis and human-beings. But from national point of view, we cannot bear the presence of Rohingyas and various troubles made by them in the Rakhine state. Racial issue is one example. The natives of Rakhine State, Rakhines, are leaving for inner Myanmar and abroad for more prospects of living conditions. At the same time, eac Rohingya is taking a maximum of 4 wives and having a dozen of children without any control. While native Rakhine population growth is stable, Rohingya population is growing very, very fast at an unacceptable rate.
Now, Rohingyas are swallowing the Rakhine State! Maybe someday they might even swallow the whole Myanmar, too. We understand that this issue cannot be solved very easily. All willing international organizations should consider how to help the situations; for example, is it possible to migrate Rohingyas to other places in the world? Is it possible to persuade Bangladesh to accept her own citizens? But there may not be a reasonable and realistic solution to it, I think. Amidst those critical situations, Rohingyas are now showing themselves to the world as they are terrorists by destroying the villages and killing native Rakhine people. Under such circumstances, what can you expect Myanmar Government to do? Rohingyas’ plan is like a time-bomb which is aimed to explode at the targeted time. This is a transition period for Myanmar from long military rule to democratic government.
The Government may not wish to respond very aggressively. Similarly, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, the nobel laureate, is planning to visit Europe and receive the award. She may not wish a bloody conflict inside Myanmar at this auspicious time, too. Rohingyas are now pushing Myanmar Government and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi into very very tight situation at the stake of their lives. The mouth of International media is eagerly watering to exploit this resulting incident.
We have millions of Myanmar Muslims living together peacefully with the rest of nation. However, we cannot treat Rohingyas equally as our brothers, Myanmar Muslims. Simply because Myannmar Muslims are Myanmars while Rohingyas are just foreigners. Now we can say, Rohingyas are invaders: they are terrorists who are attacking our own people. In short, I’d like to say “We don’t want Rohingyas.” But, how to solve this problem is beyond my knowledge, I confess. Anyway, one thing is for sure. We, the people of Myanmar despite their difference in various faiths namely, Buddhism, Christianity or Islam, will firmly stand together with unity behind the actions to be taken by Myanmar Government. Sorry, Rohingyas. (And sorry, International Media, too) If you want to blame, JUST blame your mother country. Sometimes, bloody ending may be an option which we cannot exclude entirely.
ICY (MMCP)
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Thanks for all of these comments:
This thread just goes to show that Burmese politics — for so long captured in the foreign public’s imagination by the stalemate between Aung San Suu Kyi and the generals — is moving in new and potentially unpredictable directions. I don’t think most outsiders, at least, have ever been in a position to consistently assess broader political currents. Aung San Suu Kyi = good; Generals = bad. Of course there was always far more to the story than that. But with relative “liberalisation” of Burma’s Internet, media and social debate there are so many opportunities to come to grips with important political sentiments. It appears likely that this episode of political conflict will have all sorts of implications — both practical and rhetorical, but also for analysts and academics.
With that in mind this AFP report is likely to prove relevant. It provides some sense of how outside observers conceive of the online rhetoric associated with western Burma’s political conflict.
But there is another issue that has me thinking…
In the absence of opinion polling we only have an accumulation of anecdotal perspectives to rely on. So I would be interested to hear New Mandala readers views. What percentage of Burmese Buddhists share hardline anti-Rohingya sentiments? 10 per cent? 50? 80?! How would we know?
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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@Mrat Htun Thit
So I guess you are saying genocide is the answer. And for a second I thought we are living in a more civilized 2012.
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What wicked, disingenuous drivel! The “Rohingya” are aliens in every sense of the term: they are present in Myanmar only because of Anglo imperialism; the British let them slip in. The Rakhine did not ask to be overwhelmed by Muslim miscreants. These so-called “Rohingya” are no less Bengali than the “Chicanos” of the US are “Mexican.” Your screed gives little mention to their origins; it is too well-written and researched to be anything more than a calculated propaganda piece intended to advance your open borders agenda at the expense of the culture and territory of the Rakhine.
Keep up the fight, Rakhine! We could all learn a thing or two from you.
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This is a direct message to Nich.
Every good mother knows that a child’s tantrum is always made worse by glorying it with fuss rather than to ignore it as the child always realizes the futility of the obnoxious act at or near exhaustion.
As someone pointed out in a comment this is a distressing and uncertain times for the people of all persuasion in Burma with easy and anonymous outlet so that whatever is written cannot possibly be used to make it as representative of the majority concept or even the writer’s belief at the time of reflection and calm disposition.
The unrealistic “Muslim beheading gang” would simply be a horrid, distasteful bad joke until repatedly quoted by the mainstream journalists and “experts” glorying it with distinct call for retort or worse reaction by the aggrieved party.
Your own description of Burmese not having respect for the Muslim like the Christian is wrong as was stated earlier and your accusation of the Buddhist hard liners trying to “purge” the Rohingya is not only unhelpful, it is not possibly substantiable and dangerously inciting.
So is Jan Jalewski’s remark of anti- Rohingya being blurred into anti- Muslim. It is untrue! Purely conjectural but dangerous and inciteful.
Yes. Anyone can see that inappropriate and dangerous remarks are written in free, easy and anonymous media. But their capacity to destroy would be realized only when the indignant mainstream media glorifies it with apparent relish and self- righteousness.
Please stick to facts rather than assumptions and refrain from interpretation in the worst possible light as it is likely to be self- fulfilling.
And if possible at all, do the tantrum analysis either privately or at a later date rather than at the heat of the moment.
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Thanks Ohn,
I struggle to see where the media is glorifying this rhetoric or why they should be responsible for the vitriol of online haters.
We are all trying to make sense of it, put it in context, compare it to other situations (Thailand, May 2010, sometimes springs to mind…), provide interpretations and offer some hints (where possible) of understanding. Why would you rally against that? The sad fact is that under the circumstances these online comments become news. I pointed out as much a few days ago on this thread — but it didn’t stop the vitriol, and the worst of it never makes it onto New Mandala anyway.
Anonymous Internet commentators like yourself may prefer if no attention was paid to the most extreme views (or “bad jokes” as you call them). But the world naturally wants to understand why there is sectarian strife in western Burma. These attitudes seem to provide part of the answer. And I struggle to see how ignoring the existence of these views is a more appropriate stance for journalists or academics to take. Where there are other issues that need to be accounted for then I think we are all ears. There is a big international appetite for trying to understand the complexities of this situation. The online comments are part of the story…
…but they are not the only story…
So, perhaps you’d like to hazard a guess at my earlier question on the breadth of these sentiments in Burmese Buddhist society. For the record, I don’t actually think they are all that widely held. Am I being proven wrong?
Best wishes to all,
Nich
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Link to what appears to be a fairly objective blog/website by a Burmese named Hla Oo in which he provides details and photos (some very graphic, horrendous in fact so be warned) about:
1. the initial alleged rape and murder of the Buddhist girl by 3 Muslim (allegedly Rohingyas),
2. the subsequent arrest and detention of the 3 accused of this brutal crime,
3. and then, despite the arrest of the 3 accused, the subsequent Buddhist mob violence that murdered 10 Burmese Muslims (on a religious journey/bus trip apparently, in any case, nothing to do with the rape and murder of the Buddhist girl)
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2012/06/arrakan-boiling-with-anti-islamic-fever.html
Hla Oo seems to be geographically located near the actual situation and quite informed and knowledgable and also provides copies of local newspapers, photos, texts, etc. He does not seem to be encouraging more violence, in fact, he seems to be horrified by what’s going on, and appears to merely want people to be better informed as to the actual facts.
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Link to Burma news agency/website Mizzima piece on situation in western Burma:
http://www.mizzima.com/edop/analysis/7311-violence-throws-spotlight-on-rohingya.html
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link to AFP report from western Burma and Rohingya refugee camps with Rohingya asking An San Suu Kyi to speak on their behalf:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1-114352-Rohingya-Muslims-call-for-Suu-Kyi%20s-help
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True that there are despicable comments written in free and easy outlets. And it is most certainly not caused by the mainstream media. And true it is newsworthy.
But the suggestion that the Buddhist Burmese do not respect Muslim like they do to the Christian minority is not called for. Neither is the speculation that extremist Buddhists are trying to purge the Rohingya. Or interpretation that the anti- Rohingya is blurred into anti -Muslim.
Things are bad as they are but when someone, especially an expert comes along and put a label it becomes that label. Before that, it was simply a stupid loose, if objectionable, talk.
Here there Is potentially more danger than the Thai situation which is strictly domestic.
All it was requested was please do not interpret in the worst possible light as it may be fulfilled.
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Thanks Ohn,
Appreciate your follow-up; I take your advice well. There’s no doubt we need to be careful with how we explain such a messy situation — and that is not an easy task. I’m always open to suggestions about how analysis, and efforts to communication it clearly, can be improved.
My sense is that you and I perhaps aren’t far apart in how we see this situation. I am very happy to focus on those common understandings and the shared interpretive mission that follows.
Hoping for the best, and best wishes to all,
Nich
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The comment by much quoted expert Nicholas Farrelly that online comments are part of the story but they are NOT the only story and stating on the record that He dose not think these sentiments are not all that widely held in Burmese Buddhist society is very very much newsworthy.
Thank you for those.
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Facebook is where anyone can open account Sai Babu can be
John O’Neill, Juicy May Lay can be Margaret Watote, John
the bigot can become Tom the liberal.
Any conjecture based on such sources are not reliable, any
quotes made on FB’s comments are not news worthy.
Burmese exile media agencies such as DVB can also shut
down their own servers and saying Hacker bareback lovers
have harmed our servers for hatred of Dr. wanna be Malik
the moron, Dr. Maung Ne the naive, or plain simple Ghaby
the gullible or (Homer) Simpson the stupid. But I wonder
are some academics with glorified diplomes are joining in
this chorus, saying “Well, this FB account is asking for the
heads of Rohingya, so he must be a Burmese and Buddhist!”
What a wonderful logic! How about thinking “Are there any
external or internal forces at work, Burmese may mistrust
the outsiders and they are xenophobic but are those Rohingyas
really spotless saints victimised by Burmese. Are their pains,
self-inflicted? Is Bangladesh also responsible for them too?
What motivate them to choose Burma rather than the land of
their ancestors while Burma itself can only offer livable land,
fresh water, access to South East Asia. While those are the
incentives for an immigrant who enter into Burma illegally,
what are the motivations of their leaders? Have they been
benefiting from donor money, do they get support from the
agents such as Saudi Arabia, etc.. Where do they get the $$
to lobby US congress, etc.. So those are the questions ANU
researchers should seek.
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Per video in link below, Burma’s 8888 Generation supposedly pro-democracy, pro-human rights leaders held a press conference in Yangoon on June 8th for the express purpose of denouncing the Rohingya as non-citizens of Burma who have no claim to any rights, residency or sympathy.
Watching this press conference, the expressions on the 8888 Generation leaders’ faces, their body language, listening to their words, will probably come as a shock to most Western observers I would guess. It’s as if the 8888 Generations’s 20 to 30 years of struggle and credibility disappear down the drain in front of your eyes.
I might be wrong, but it seems to me if An San Suu Kyi doesn’t make a clear statement as to her and her party’s attitude and stance in regard to the Rohingya situation while she has such a large media platform on her European trip, during her visit to Oslo to accept her Nobel Peace Prize, her own reputation, international stature and standing is also at risk.
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Some claim that the brutal rape and murder of a local girl started this saga.
I think it is just the spark, the catalyst, the pretext for patriots and invaders.
Whatever it is, that tragic but trivial event is alike the toppings on the tip
of the ice berg as big as Antarctica. The real culprit was the porous border
and the deliberate import of Chittagongian Bengali labour – I do not blame
those tenants or peasants as they will take every opportunity to advance
their own interests. But we Burmese are not animals too. We too have our
own interests to protest.
As time passed by some of those new comers bring in new comers and they
become ambitious, hence those Bengali Mujaheeds rebelled against first Burmese democratic government which gave every citizens regardless of
gender, race and religion a vote to express their preference for ruling leaders.
Burma does not have slavery. Saudi Arabia on the other hand still practised
slavery till 1962. Burma offered votes for women since 1945. Are western
media darling’s Al Jiera’s host country permit voting of women? Burma has
one of the most beautiful cathedrals in CBD, so are the mosques. Do Dubai
has one? Does Jordan have one? Burma boast one of the oldest Mosques in
CBD too. Are there any Buddhist temples build in Saudi Arabia? Why dont
you guys point a finger to Saudi before pointing finger to us saying we are
intolerant as that hurt our pride. We are the most laid back easy going folks
and that led us to this mess. Sai Babu should think before he was misled or
he tried to mislead the readers.
What we see is that media agencies, NGOs and opposition in exile are also
working with Rohingya and also some hard liners inside Burma, inevitably
some of us (on both sides are racists, bigoted haters) and so we got into this.
But this Rohingya issue started as imported labour to illegal immigration to full-blown invasion or land grabbing operation of this scale.
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Widely respected and well-informed SE Asia journalist Bertil Lintner (in interview with Edward Loxton for This Week) says the Burma military might be the hidden hand behind the upsurge in inter-ethnic violence in western Burma as part of an overall plan to undermine ASSK and slow or stop the opening and reform process.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/asia-pacific/burma/47364/burma-regime-inciting-rakhine-conflict-discredit-aung-san-suu-kyi
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Artur, thanks for both your comments of #94 & 96. I am certain, many of us have made our deductions and concluded what Bertil has said ASSK vis-a-vis the government. But, a lot of the comments made here were outright racism and promoting hate crimes rather than calling a spade a spade and trying to overcome the current situation. Perhaps those who made those comments with racist overtones are either trolls paid by the instigators of this situation or just pure ignorant, intolerant racist bigots. Especially saddens me when they say they are doing it in the name of Buddhism.
I am not agreeing to a Rohingya state or recognition of Rohingyas as an ethnic group of Burma. However, I am for all those Rohingyas who were born and raised in Burma to be Burmese citizens and have equal rights as any other Burmese guaranteed under the Constitution (although not much at the moment). We all have suffered enough under successive military governments.
We have witnessed and seen these before with the Chinese riots in the 60s when Ne Win wanted to divert peoples’ attention from rice shortages when he himself was half Chinese. Now I wonder where the protests on electricity shortage is. Old tactics are still used as Burma has been closed for so long and peoples’ attitude haven’t changed much, thus they still work. It is not to be seen as a condescending comment but just a reality check. We still have a long way to catch up even to our neighbors, let alone the rest of the world and we do not need this as an image to be seen by the world and the investors who will no doubt contribute to the economic development of Burma.
I have been away from Burma for 23 years and I have longed to go back and contribute to the economic development and provide opportunities to the young generation the kind of opportunities we did not have when we were young, but what is happening in Burma is making me think very hard.
I hope ASSK will have her policy statement on this matter soon if she wants to be seen as a true future leader of Burma that represents everyone from Myitkyina to Tavoy.
My thoughts and prayers with all those who suffered enormously from this on both sides.
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To Arthur alias “Ahmed Arloo”
Are you suggesting that Daw Aung San Su Kyi has to follow your stylish but substanceless, dreamful but “never-work” rhetorics
such as love and peace, everyone is human, including such terror
causing invaders, land grabbers, etc..?
Who are we to judge her?
Who are you to judge her?
Believing in democracy is not equal to sucking everyone, we have
responsibilities and rights to fight for our locals and land. We may
respect human rights but that human rights do not include we open
doors to every criminals and thugs, militant jihadists to come to our
land. We have rights whom we will accept or reject. It is you who has
to adopt our customs, our cultures and not the other way around.
Western observers? My arse! At the end of the day, they will not be
there when our grandchildren throats will got cut or engage in more
severe battles to kick the arses of the grandsons of those invaders.
Having good relations and nice-guy image is preferrable but it must
not be the end goal for Burma. It is our home and we make sure we
are safe first before we give a damn what our neighbours think of us.
Please do not try your Khaw Taw Ka Lar Chittagongian’s templates,
they may work with some Nelly the naive, Grace the gullible who goes
for any good actors performing the role of underdog in media, but not
with us. We have know you for 50 years or 100 years and so we know
what you have eaten yesterday. Stop using templates. Be innovative as you have now started an all-out invasion to us. Don’t be scare we
will be gentle, we know it is first time you are caught with evidence.
Now the world knows your true colours. These are the days we have
been waiting to expose who you really are, Chittagongian Bengalis!
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Lengthy AP piece on the Rohingya situation in western Burma.
http://asiancorrespondent.com/84265/burma-conflict-spurs-hatred-for-asias-rohingya-outcasts/
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Aung Zaw piece in Irrawaddy on the complex Rohningya western Burma situation that’s splashing mud on everyone all across the Burma spectrum…..
http://www.irrawaddy.org/archives/6837#.T9nlz_dJcG8.facebook
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I am with Zaw Tun that the governmen is diverting the attention of electricity shortage away from people. After I made the last post, I came to realize that the government was behind this. Also, Burmese people, even those outside Burma and in fact in western countries, still do not understand much about anything with regards to economics and infrastructure needed to get Burma out of the situation it is in. They have a tendency to fear based on tribal competition that they are so used to and hence think that if Rohingyas get full citizenship, the Rohingys will do well economically and they (mostly Buddhists) will be left behind.
With the oppressionsthe Rohingys have been facing, some Rohingyas have become like Jews, a close-knit group with connections all over the world which would defintely help them in a free market economy in Burma though the majority of the Rohingyas are stuck in villages inside Burma and refugees camp in bandgladesh langusihing away. As for the Buddhist population, their favored status has protected them from the kind of struggles that Rohingyas have been going through and in my honest opinion, ihas made them less informed about the subject of economics and much other. Still not too late to learn but an open mind above prejudice is necessary.
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To the person who wrote “95 Then imported labour, illegal immigration and invasaion now “,
Are you so proud to compare Burma to Saudi Arabia, a country that is way too blessed having petro that flows like water from a Spring. Breside, who told you that Saudi Arabia has slavery? if you really want to learn about the history of middle east learn from the real history sources , not here and there of propaganda website.
Here is the starting info about middle east: Ever heard Babylon? That’s Iraq? Ever heard Mesopotamia? Guess what that region is not known as. Ever heard Fertile Crescent? Do you know that it is in the middle east?
This tribal mentality, pointing fingers at bengalis for your sorry state of life is not going to get you much far in life but you still don’t have a clue about it.
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Is Burma regime inciting Rakhine conflict to discredit Aung San Suu Kyi?
Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/asia-pacific/burma/47364/burma-regime-inciting-rakhine-conflict-discredit-aung-san-suu-kyi#ixzz1xnbhtdHQ
http://www.theweek.co.uk/asia-pacific/burma/47364/burma-regime-inciting-rakhine-conflict-discredit-aung-san-suu-kyi
“Suu Kyi was further embarrassed this week by anti-Rohingya statements by two human rights activists who were previously among her staunchest supporters.
“The Rohingya are not a Burmese ethnic group,” said Ko Ko Gyi, a leader of the now-disbanded 88 Students Generation activist group, who was recently given an amnesty after serving five years’ imprisonment for defying the former military regime.
“The root cause of the violence… comes from across the border and foreign countries,” he said.
“This is astonishing stuff coming from a supposed human rights activist,” said one Western observer. “Such statements go a long way to support the belief that the government is trying to manipulate opposition circles wherever it can in order to sabotage Aung San Suu Kyi.”
Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/asia-pacific/burma/47364/burma-regime-inciting-rakhine-conflict-discredit-aung-san-suu-kyi#ixzz1xnbnGW8g
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‘This repeated senseless, denial of and debating the legitimacy of the identity “Rohingyia”, as part of the Citizenry/Burmese Muslim citizen within the borders, underscores the very basic of Humanity:
The right to exist under any name.”
“This answer Plan B (for reaming his bottom till soreness) claim that it is not time for discussing Bengalis equal to Rohingya”
@ #70 Long Live Burma
Debating the issue of Rohingyias must go beyond ‘the nomenclature of a group’ and even more moronic over it ‘existence’.
Delaying for a real solution/status risk repeated unacceptable sectarian violence that only strengthen anti Bamar entities.
It has been clearly the failure of the government of Myanmar to implement and enforce the exiting immigration and naturalization statues, “THE RULE OF LAW”, for at least the past 3 decades has allowed the mostly trans border immigrants that called themselves “Rohingyias”, clearly an entity, of Muslim to reside within Myanmar borders.
legitimized faultily by BBC as well as UNHCR as minority in order to persecute then SPDC by any means.
Thailand differentiate citizen from refugees, documented aliens etc through a concerted combined effort of military and police backed by clear statues w/o religious or racial overtones.
Until the rule of law, that can provide this clear Immigration & Naturalization is provided, by this government, together with concerted military and police actions my bottom shall remain sore from sitting down too long to answer to comments like yours.
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Talking about comparing Burma to Saudi Arabia instead of more civic
Canada or Australis make sense. Even when this issue is immigration,
criminal laws (mobs of any faith who are setting fire, killing each other,
etc..), we still cannot forget the powerful dynamics of geography, history
and politics.
Regarding geography, Burma unlike Canada does not have a rich neighbor
like America, the United States buffer more populous and poor Mexico.
Whilst Saudi Arabia is the land important for Sunni Islam and so is Burma
for Theravada Buddhism. Burma is the citadel of Buddhist faith. Burmese know that and they are proud of it, foreign invasion of different faith has
made things more violent. Rakhines are intermarrying with non-Rakhines,
non-Buddhists but no to Bengalis. Tying knots with Bengali means more
than a taboo for a Rakhine, it is treason. You do not marry someone who
killed you, invaded your land, set fire to your homes.
There is the economy, copying Canada, providing free meals and housing
to illegals will cripple Burmese economy, one of the poorest countries in
the world although still an attractive place for illegals from 3 times more
populous, 3 times smaller in size (9 times more populated in a square km)
and sinking under the rising sea.
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Perhaps MUCH to the disappointment of the doomsayers, the all out genocide and purging and killing, destroyings between the arch enemies to end the world seems to have quiet down to not so publicable levels.
Aung Zaw’s sugggestion of spread to Rangoon becuase the majority Buddhists are bent to destroy all the Muslim is not going to happen either. Sorry.
It is still a devestating event for the people involved and their relatives and the associated communities.
Again, all the crisis carries opportunities.
There is no other way but to rebuild the country together again with better understanding and cooperation among the neighbours because this should be a terrible lesson to teach everyone that hatred and animosity simply makes things worse.
The measure of the sincerity of the military would be seen by their level of asisstance to the Rohingya people hurt in this episode. As simple as that.
Wider question of the citizenship can be sorted out later by the authorities.
Facebook commentators should also learn that the mainstream media and the academics will highlight your abusive, spur of the moment, angry outburst as the representative of the other 90 percent of the country who may not even have a clue what was being said.
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Aung Zaw’s writings are not worthy to quote. He is the founder of donors-stooge Irrawaddy which serve constantly as mouth-piece of so-called Rohingya illegal terrorists.
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IPS Wire Service piece by senior correspondent Marwaan Macan-Markar on the Rohingya situation in western Burma.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2012/06/ethnic-cleansing-of-muslim-minority-in-myanmar/
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Typical outsider’s views:
a) “The Burmese public are believing one side of the story, which is that Rohingya are not Burmese, are not citizens and are just Bengali settlers trying to take their land,” said Phil Robertson, of New York-based Human Rights Watch.
b) an effort by the former junta to portray them as foreigners
Aung Zaw was right to comment Some non-Burmese have reacted to Ko Ko Gyi’s remarks with a certain amount of consternation, believing that he, as a former political prisoner, should have stood up for the rights of an undeniably oppressed group. But inside Burma, his words were welcomed and spread quickly on Facebook, while local journals that reported his views soon sold out. The consensus among Burmese, it seems, is that the Rohingya are illegal migrants from neighboring Bangladesh—a view that also treats this as an issue of sovereignty rather than religious animosity. And Mya Aye, a Burmese Muslim sitting next to Ko Ko Gyi, concurred.
I’d be surprised if the Burmese were not united in support of the Rakhine. Extreme views notwithstanding the Rohingya are seen as a scourge and a menace, not judged by the colour of the skin, race or by their religion as such, as some have alleged, but purely by their behaviour over the decades. As you sow so shall you reap.
If this whole sorry episode was instigated by the USDP by organising the attack on that bus then the Rohingya snapped at the bait all too readily to their own peril. And if the time honoured diversionary tactic fails to work as the Burmese Muslims in ‘Burma Proper’ (to use the old colonial term) have been making joint statements and appeals together with the Burmese Buddhists to stop it from becoming an anti-Muslim campaign, who knows the Chinese in Upper Burma may not be next?
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Somehow the Indian races -this IS a racial remark, Indians of all religion and geographic abode- seem to be fascinated by FIRE. Funeral pyre, the chilling practice of “Sati”, the harrowing invention of “necklacings” successfully exported to the South Africa, and prolific use of it in personal attacks and riots. The Burmese-Chinese riots seems to have less fire involved.
This long and cringing note is to say that with the onset of rain and storm, even the most virulent agitators cannot possible burn houses and in rain and mud even the mostSeasoned and prolific face to face killers, the Burmese army, cannot kill much.
So whatever is written anyhow here by anyone, the ” west Burma” violence as delicate people delicately calls it is not going on much anymore. That and sheer exhaustion. People may now regret having burned down houses. There definately is not much food and there is an outbreak of diarrhoea.
Aung Zaw’s touchy, scary scene of these hateful Buddhists in Rangoon killing off all the Muslims or the “kalars” as every body points out these hateful Burmese calls these would-be victims in derogatory manner has now passed the much anticipated Friday Prayer test so that journalists around the world may have to wait for another time for juicy gore and Buddhist Burmese bashing.
See, all out Burmese-Muslim riot is not going to help anyone and even the virulent Rohingya Inc. would not want it. Neither would the military which after all has a long and successful experience of staging and shepherding these man-made crises.
The question of virulent hate speech. All Burmese experts and aid people took delight in repeatedly reproducing them with sound effect. Sadly none of these experts read Burmese although the “moderate” ones posted here do not require any language skill at all.
In Burmese web sphere, these horrid hate business been going open for so long this one is not really standing out. And yes, you can find the palpable Burmese chauvinistic and racist attitude increasing for the last ten or so years. Only Difference being the people can now write in English and communicate as well. Even the Pagan pagoda guides would now explain the disgraceful rape and pillage of that advanced civilization Thaton as if the Burmese rescuing the poor Mon public from harsh administration and how well the King Manuha was being looked after- as a slave!
All authoritarian regime go for easy incitement of nationalism. Khin Nyunt cannot be blamed for trying and indeed succeeding. His successors have the route cut up. So this xenophobic, chauvinistic talk and bravado are integral scene of many a lavish gatherings of the top brass and their supporters- the commercial colleagues – for decades.
And they WERE universally despised. For that and for other evil deeds.
Now, let’s see. Since the unfortunate and sad success of the military to turn Aung San Suu Kyi to exclusively sing for their praise which she does non- stop from the 18th of August 2011 and still enthusiastically going on, there is a deluge of recognition, praise, visits, support and pampering by the very same international community.
On one fell swoop, all the evil deeds of the military including this horrid chauvinistic, racist attitude and acts become acceptable or even honorable as the perpetrators are honoured by the international communities whose prime ministers and ministers fall over each other trying to squeeze the hands of Thein Sein, the military’s bald front man. People simply take along the ride.
They see the military killing the Kachin worse than ever. They hear no condemnation. They see more troops put in Kachin Land as well a Karen Land which is now supposedly ” peaceful”. And they see the Norwegians digging oil in the gulf while doing the softly, softly conductor job for the military to bring in the displaced with no guarantee of peace or demilitarization.
For the record Sean Turnell’s recent article on economics ( not on politics) is the only one written by the myriad of “Burmese Experts” which suggests cutting down the size of the military which is the real reason Burmese are poor financially rather than this “sanction” business which was good as a principle before and now gone.
In short, the military is The most chauvinistic in Burma. Those pariah are now the rock stars enjoying the sucking up if not adulation by the drooling international communities. People who ape them will now continue to do so. So, yes, there are more trouble to come.
And, yes, it will be like the genie. It will get out of control and spread around the region and the world at large.
That is well expected after sound support of the evil doers who are stepping up their evil ways rather than amending it as the international communities like to lie.
So don’t get discouraged by lack of step up in the current killing spree. More is in stock. And soon.
Simply keep pampering the military signaling their chauvinistic and racist acts are OK.
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See the map of the Arakan, Burmese land in that plan?
Mughalistan (or Mughalstan) is the name of an independent homeland proposed for the Muslims of India. This Mughal-Muslim state in the Indian subcontinent will include all of North India and Eastern India, and will be formed by merging Pakistan and Bangladesh through a large corridor of land running across the Indo-Gangetic plain, the heartland of India. This Mughalistan corridor will comprise Muslim-majority areas of Northern India and eastern India that will be partitioned for the second time in history.
So invaders are planning since 1948.
http://mughalistan.wordpress.com/
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To everyone who is so hung-up on “My land, my home” to the point of denying others who also call the same place their home,
In the following lin, you will learn that before you arrived to this land, it was someone else’s home. Just because you arrived there earlier than others who currently live doesn’t make it ONLY your home. In fact, you will learn that the ancient kingdom in Arakan was founded by the ancestors of current Bengalis (I am not saying that current Muslim Bengalis in Arakan are descended from those Bengali Buddhists inside Arakan; what most likely would have happened was that current Buddhist are descended from those Bengali Buddhist and then mixed with Tibeto-Burmans who arrived later. In another word, people in that region of Arakan are all related to each other whether they like it or not just as all the people in the four British ailes are related). Since “The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD”, any anceint Buddhist structure found there were built during the reing of those Bengalis.
Migration period of ancient Burma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_period_of_ancient_Burma#Indian_and_Burmese_settlement_in_Arakan
“Arakanese chronicles claim that the Kingdom was founded in the year 2666 BC.[28]
Wesali or Vaisali was founded by Hindu Chandra Dynasty. “The area known as North Arakan had been for many years before the 8th century the seat of Hindu dynasties. In 788 AD a new dynasty, known as the Chandras, founded the city of Wesali. This city became a noted trade port to which as many as a thousand ships came annually; the Chandra kings were upholders of Buddhism, … their territory extended as far north as Chittagong;—- Wesali was an easterly Hindu kingdom of Bengal — Both government and people were Indian.[29] So far as Arakan is concerned, the inscriptions show traces of two early dynasties holding sway in the north. The earlier one, a Candra dynasty, seems to have been founded in the middle of the fourth century A.D. Its capital was known by the Indian name of Vaisali and it maintained close connections with India. Thirteen kings of this dynasty are said to have reigned for a total period of 230 years. The second dynasty was founded in the eighth century by a ruler referred to as Sri Dharmavijaya, who was of pure Ksatriya descent. His grandson married a daughter of the Pyu king of Sri Ksetra.[30]
Hindu statues and inscriptions were found in Wesali. The ruins of old capital of Arakan – Wesali show Hindu statues and inscriptions of the 8th century AD. Although the Chandras usually held Buddhistic doctrines, there is reason to believe that Brahmanism and Buddhism flourished side by side in the capital.
“The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD. Hence earlier dynasties are thought to have been Indian, ruling over a population similar to that of Bengal. All the capitals known to history have been in the north near modern Akyab”.[31]
“
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Ohn
must be joking to say “the Burmese army, cannot kill much” providing his theory.
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Arakan in Mughalistan?
If you look around this is only one of many put forward by people or organizations of their dream.
Please do not take this and such like to drum up antipathy because it is not really a well considered concerted plan.
It simply means that the other neighbour India is also not so comfortable with their erstwhile country men. That’s all.
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Aya Chan talking about Human Rights for (bamar, Rakhines, Karens, Shan, Kachins, etc. but not about Rohingyas.
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My personal comments based on what a real Rohungya told me: The so called Rohingya leaders are active with their own agenda (to get financial support from other muslims sources), not in the best interest of the Ordinary Rohiungya Muslims.
The poor Rohingya villagers, with no one representing in their interest, are being used by so the called Rohingya leaders as if those leaders represent the poor refugees, At the same time, the poor villagers are targetd by the Burmese government and the Buddhists majority.
Such is the mess in Arakan that escalated to what it is since the British left.
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Nigella’s comment, “Recent events evoke the atmosphere for Jews in 1930s Germany, and specifically Kristallnacht” is right on.
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Ivan said that “Hla Oo seems to be geographically located near the actual situation and quite informed and knowledgable and also provides copies of local newspapers, photos, texts, etc. ” as if local news paper controlled by the Burmese government and Buddhist majority are unbiased.
Ivan continued ” He does not seem to be encouraging more violence, in fact, he seems to be horrified by what’s going on, and appears to merely want people to be better informed as to the actual facts.” and so I would like to ask Ivan, who obviously is a Buddhist from Burma this:
If Hla OO is so knwoledgeable, why doesn’t he also report the followings which I ljust learned upon catching up with a true Rohingya that I have known since I was 4 years old as neighnors in Yangon where I grew up, in his blog?
(1) The government orchestrating taking pictures of people painting their faces and body to be darker and wearing of Muslim’s caps and burning houses as if the terrorized Rohingyas who have been too powerless and only have been fleeing to Bangladesh – this time only to be blocked by Bangladesh authorities – really committed those crimes.
(2) The government throwing acids on the corpse of Muslims and shaving heads to make them look like they were non-Muslims victims.
Hla Oo’s blog is as bias as they (the Buddhists majority and the government) come. Nothing new. I even saw a youtube video in which a Rakhine girl wearing hijab as if she’s a muslim and bashing the Rohingyas. The poster of the video moderates the comments, obviously to screen posts like mine, challenging their claims calling the Rohingyas terrorists.
Logic would dictate that Muslims in Burma, especially the Rohingyas, terrorized under the military regime, are in no position to be capable of burning houses and what not as they have been accused of committing.
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I do not hear Bangladeshis talking about human rights for Burmese too. Why should Burmese talking about human rights for Bengalis especially when they are burning our homes, killing our local people, pretending as a victim while invading our country.
We are treating those animal minded people as humans, our soldiers are taking the bullets from those invaders to protect the fire fighters who are being shot by Bengali invaders who set fire to their make-shift hut to burn down mansions of centuries old Arakanese homes. If we do not respect human rights, those invaders would have been died now. But if you look at the casuality, Bumese are more on the receiving side than those Bengali invaders.
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One more thing I noticed about Hla Oo’s blog is that though he posted a news piece from nytimes, the rest of his news (with pictures, orchestrated pictures at that, showing Rohingyas rioting and attacking Rakhines, are from propaganda sources.
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Mandy (a) Nyunt Oo Swe (a) Mehndi,
The lady doth protest too much. Excellent citation BTW from a wiki article almost entirely contributed by none other than Dr Abdul Rahman Zafrudin, champion of a one man crusade, should I say jihad, and the proud winner of the Tireless Contributor Barnstar.
Not noticed his ping back above in #2?
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Mandy (a) Nyunt Oo Swe (a) Mehndi,
Ever heard of Godwin’s Law?
As to – Such is the mess in Arakan that escalated to what it is since the British left, this is what Dr Aye Chan had to say in his paper The Development of a Muslim Enclave in Arakan (Rakhine) State of Burma (Myanmar) published by the SOAS in the Bulletin of Burma Research, Autumn 2005 (p406-7):
Kristallnacht, huh?
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No offence Moe Aung (#130) that I do not take Aye Chan’s word literally since he is partial
on the subject. For example, in the youtube video where he talked about Burmese King annexing Arakan in 1784, he did not mention about how tens of thousands of Muslims (earlier, I mistakenly said hundreds of thousands) had to feel to Chittagong but he mentioned about the Muslims form Chittagong entering Burma as if they’re new comers instead of telling the truth that they were coming back to their homes in Arakan when it was safe to do so.
Soory, Moe Aung that Aye Chan is not a credible historian.
BTW, my name is spelled “Mandy”, not “Mehndi”.
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not sure if anyone else noticed, but I thought it interesting that ASSK referred to these current events as ‘communal violence’ in Saturday’s Nobel Peace prize acceptance speech. No doubt she was in a difficult position, with her terminology bound to come under careful scrutiny. Whilst there is some truth to her descriptor, it does however screen out any potential involvement (or lack of involvement) by the state in this sad affair….
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If Ashin Wirathu preaches extremism in the name of protecting ‘race and religion’, he doesn’t understand what Buddha taught. Instead of being racist minded, if he spent some time learning the real Buddhism and the real Islam, he would see the common denominatior between these two universal religions.
He sure is a Taliban monk since Talibans also do not know the real Islam.
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http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/litee/sideviews/article/myanmars-chance-to-help-the-rohingya-sanitsuda-ekachai/
Despite the arguments on who had triggered the communal violence, the plight of the Rohingya is real. The racism is real.
And the fact that it is the Muslim Rohingya who must flee for safety also speak volumes about the situation there.
..
“Unless the world applies pressure on Myanmar to review its inhumane treatment of the Rohingya, and unless the government cracks down on human traffickers and corrupt officials, the tragedies of the Rohingya boat people will never end. The sad possibility is that world is likely to look the other way, given the vast economic potential which Myanmar holds.”
—————————————————–
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/myanmar-conflict-rohingya-muslims_n_1595976.html
“People feel it very acceptable to say that ‘We will work on wiping out all the Rohingyas,’” said Debbie Stothard, an activist with the Alternative ASEAN Network on Burma, referring to hyperbolic Internet comments she called “disturbing.”
“On Thursday, Rakhine state was reportedly calm. But Rohingyas living there “very much feel like they’re trapped in a box,” said Phil Robertson of Human Rights Watch. “They’re surrounded by enemies, and there is an extremely high level of frustration.”"
“Across the border in Bangladesh, civilians – not the government – are more tolerant. But even there, Rohingyas are largely unwanted because their presence in the overpopulated country only adds to competition for scarce resources and jobs.”
MY COMMENT: Good to know that the civilains in bangladesh are more civilized than the civilians in Arakan and in fact in Burma.
“Rohingyas must get government permission to travel outside their own villages and to marry. Apparently concerned about population growth, authorities have barred Rohingyas from having more than two children.”
MY COMMENT: I am impressed with huffingtonpost. I now understand a friend of mine in San Francisco bnay Area uses this news source as his promary newspaper.
“In 1978, Myanmar’s army drove more than 200,000 Rohingyas into Bangladesh, according to rights groups and the U.S. Campaign for Burma. Some 10,000 died in squalid conditions, and the rest returned to Myanmar. The campaign was repeated in 1991-1992, and again a majority returned.”
“Prominent Burmese language journals have reported “only the Rakhine side,” Sai Latt said. And many people have lashed out at foreign media, accusing them of getting the story wrong.”
“The Rohingya speak a Bengali dialect similar to one spoken by residents of southern Bangladesh. And physically, they are almost indistinguishable from their Bangladeshi counterparts, said Lewa, of the Arakan Project.
But their history – specifically the amount of time they’ve lived in Myanmar, and who among them qualifies as a legitimate resident – is bitterly disputed.”
[Associated Press writers Xinyan Yu, Jocelyn Gecker and Grant Peck in Bangkok and Frank Jordans in Geneva contributed to this report.]
My Comment: No wonder that huffingtonpost got the facts accurate; it uses AP News Agency as its source.
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I do not think Buddha preached his followers to convert others with swords, try to breed as much as possible to get control of wombs of followers and unbelievers, try to act coy while own followers in the house of war is weak, and act tough and invade when own community of believers become a majority mob, nor he asked to kill those who do not believe his preachings. And he might have forgotten to tax other religions with extra tax. He did not bother to control the chasty of the womb of the women as he is not kind of guy who got into underwears.
Stop bringing in religion, this is a land invasion by illegals who has the mindset of animals.
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8888 Generation Student Leaders, Ko Mya Aye,Ko Ko Gyi, Min Ko Naing Spoke on Bengali Rohingya and the Current Riots in Burma-english
Ko Ko Gyi: Unless inevitable, we tried to avoid some issues patiently. Now it is time that we announce our view on Rohingya clearly. Rohingya is not one of the ethnic groups of Myanmar at all. We see that the riot happening currently in Buthedaung and Maungdaw of Arakan State is because of the illegal immigrants from Bangladesh called “Rohingya” and mischievous provocation of some international communities. Therefore, such interfering efforts by some powerful nations on this issue (Rohingya issue), without fully understanding the ethnic groups and other situations of Burma, will be viewed as offending the sovereignty of our nation. Genetically, culturally and linguistically Rohingya is not absolutely related to any ethnicity in Myanmar. In terms of citizenship, I would state separately. As we share the borders with other countries, we have some Chinese and Indian descents. They have been living in our country for generations and citizenship has been granted to them. We do not discriminate based on any race for granting the citizenship even if he is a Bengali. They should be protected in the same way as citizens of Myanmar.But, if we were forcefully pressured to accept Rohigya as one of the ethnic groups (of Burma), we won’t tolerate that. Even in America, to get the citizenship, people are tested on how well they know English language, how much they know about the culture of the country, and how long they have been living in the country, through the interviews.
http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/8888-generation-student-leaders-ko-mya-ayeko-ko-gyi-min-ko-naing-spoke-on-bengali-rohingya-and-the-current-riots-in-burma-english/
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Mandy (a) Nyunt OO swe (125). For the squabbling people to be reconciled they will need to abandon their religion-based cultures and embrace a culture of belief based on evidence. It is relatively easy for people from different backgrounds to agree about something when the evidence is laid out, and they base their belief on the evidence. It is much more difficult for a person believing one kind of foolish nonsense to be reconciled with another who believes conflicting foolish nonsense. Usually they end up bashing each other over the head.
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#127
R N England,
To be fair, there is hardly ever religion based problem. As all religions of any sort require human to interpret them or keep them as hereditary tradition.
By definition, religion cannot be evidence- based however scientific one wants to be.
On the other hand, poor religion, it is usually used or abused by people to their own end.
So it is about people involved and their attitude and desire rather tan any particular religion really.
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Ohn (130). To ascribe human behaviour to “attitude” and “desire” is a bit of a dead end. In order to get somewhere we need to look at genetic inheritance and environment. We can’t change genetic inheritance, but studying it informs us of the nature of the starting material and the problems it may give us, as we change our cultural environment to shape human behaviour into forms that allow us to live more peacefully and sustainably with each other and with our fellow creatures on the earth.
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R.N.England,
Nature & nurture, not nature v nurture. Couldn’t agree more. Religion also is an admixture of both I guess though converts may be in a slightly different category.
Should we now reconcile ourselves to Muslim as a race, no longer just a religion? It’s followers to all intents and purposes seem to think so, though it hasn’t stopped wars like Iran-Iraq or internecine wars within Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Syria…..
Have we here witnessed other Buddhists in the region joining in the fray? Any assistance in funds or arms in the offing? Is it a level playing field in that sense?
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Books on Ropingya
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Doffice-products&field-keywords=rohingyas
Muslim-Buddhist War of Bangladesh and Myanmar – The Price of Silence by Shwe Lu Maung, Sabiha A. Khan, Ellen E. Abbott and Shahthureen Khan (May 31, 2011)
Exiled to Nowhere: Burma’s Rohingya by Greg Constantine and Emma Larkin (2012)
A tale of refugees : Rohingyas in Bangladesh by Abdur. Haque, Mahfuzul. ; Centre for Human Rights (Dhaka, Bangladesh) Razzaq (1995)
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http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Doffice-products&field-keywords=rohingyas
Muslim-Buddhist War of Bangladesh and Myanmar – The Price of Silence by Shwe Lu Maung, Sabiha A. Khan, Ellen E. Abbott and Shahthureen Khan (May 31, 2011)
Author shwelumaung wrote:
My website is http://www.shwelumaung.org and I blog with videos on Myanmar and US affairs. You can view my videos at youtube. Search for Shwe Lu Maung at Youtube or google.
I am a biologcal scientist and Darwinist. In 1963, I read Charles Darwin’s The Origin of Species and became a Zoology Honours student at Rangoon University. I used to walk along the Chancellor Road carrying the book and declaring, “I am a Homo sapiens, we’re all Homo sapiens”. After 1962 coup d’état by General Ne Win and his colonels I became a rebel. Now, I believe that over population is the main cause of the economic woes we are facing.
As a Rangoon University student my ambition was to become a member of parliament. Opposing the military government I joined a democratic national guerrilla force but left the left the jungle a year later to become a demonstrator (junior faculty) at Rangoon University. I won a Colombo Plan Fellowship and finished in 1976 my doctorate degree in reproductive endocrinology from the University of Wales,(University College of North Wales), Bangor, United Kingdom.
Unhappy with the high-handedness of the military junta I left Myanmar (Burma) in 1977. I worked for the advancement of science in my capacity of the Chief Scientific Officer at the Bangladesh Institute of Research and Rehabilitation in Diabetes, Endorinology, and Metabolic Disorders (BIRDEM) from 1978 to 1991. I have visited and worked in twelve countries in four continents as a research scientist. I did a post-doctoral research in USA from 1982-85.
I got back into Myanmar politics during the 1988 uprising and I lost my scientific career. I came back to the United States to get back my scientific career in 1994. I specialize in DNA technology and gene-search. That means I am a gene-hunter, search for the causative genes that are responsible for the hereditary genetic diseases. I have about 60 scientific publications and two books and 20 articles on politics. Now I am retired and plan to write more books.
I am a descendant of the ancient Rakkhapura Kingdom which is now 75% in Myanmar, 15% inside Bangladesh and 10% inside India. I am happily married to my graduate classmate and have two children- a daughter and a son.
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Full text of “Burmah and the Burmese: in two books”
http://www31.us.archive.org/stream/burmahandburmes01mackgoog/burmahandburmes01mackgoog_djvu.txt
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Can someone advise here?
According to some mid-ranking Nasaka peronnel, five years’ back, “ethnic balance ” was being restored in northern Rakhine through a programme of model-villages. As I understood the programme, Buddhist populations (not always Burman) were being resettled from central Myanmar, Chin state .. and Bangladesh! I gathered that many of the model-villagers were retired civil servants without land and “reformed” convicts. In 2009 I heard that some Delta households had also been offered this resettlement opportunity.
Their report was backed up by an earlier SPDC statement (2001) that security would depend on the establishment of such “Muslim-free” zones. The initial phase targeted around 100 model-villages, each for 100+ families.
Such villages would surely be a flash-point in the current violence, but I have seen no mention of the re-settlement programme in any of the many commentaries. Anyone know more?
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Yeah…. A Buddhist Model Village called San-Pya Village in North Maungdaw was the one of the very first Buddhist villages attacked and burnt down by the Bengali Muslims (the so-called Rohingyas) on June 8th.
The Buddhist villagers are now demanding to form armed-people-militia units in their model villages like similar Model Villages in the Kachin State.
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Aung Moe,
Could you tell us more about the Model villages in Kachin, please?
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Hla Oo is the person to tell us more about the model villages in Kachin State. You can read his comments #29, 34 and 37 about the pa-la-na (resettlement) villages and the pyithusit (militia) here in a previous thread.
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To post # 149
Was there any *human* modal village? Created by Buddhist? Just asking because Buddha teaches humanity, not nationalism and ehnce would not approve of any village/town/ labelled as “Buddhist”.
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Thank you U Moe Aung.
I am afraid I have to reproduce your own comment from there as well.
“Looks like the regime has been following to an extent the Israeli model and using ex-army personnel as settlers. King Anawrahta in the 11th century set up a string of garrison towns in the north called kimmyo (lit. sentinel towns) along the frontiers for the defence of his realm against the Kachin, Chin, Ahom and Shan as well as the Chinese. This however is an attempt at subjugating a minority people within the union supposedly founded on the spirit of the 1947 Panglong Agreement to which the Kachin were signatories, happy to trade racial harmony for their own personal wealth.
The military regime’s colonialist strategy of Burmanisation will only succeed in sowing the seeds of further communal strife and may well lead to the Palestine scenario. I doubt it if the Kachin are just going to cave in. A guerilla war of attrition and low intensity conflict will continue which will flare up from time to time for generations to come, a scenario hardly conducive to development and progress.”
That has been precient.
In fact any act which is not done with good will, however cunning and devious it is, is likely to have equal repercussion at a later date. Those are aplenty in Burma of old and now.
Incidentally, there has been notable absence of Burma related posts in New Mandala.
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In 2007 or 2008 Hla Oo wrote and self-published a very interesting book called “Song For Irrawaddy” a fictionalized semi-auto-biographical novel detailing his horrible experiences of civil war in Kachin State in the early 1970s.
The book was a shocking recall of a 16-years old Burmese boy soldier fighting a brutal race-war where no quarter was expected or given by both sides, namely the Burmese Army and the KIA.
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U Aung Moe,
Thank you.
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Religion & law & politics should ALWAYS be separate issues. Religion is a personal belief system and should accommodate a variety of beliefs, however legal and political systems must be universally applied to all who live in that country.
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Than Dote (Post #6)
Sure, the Arakanese are suffering with the help of local police orchestrating to appear victims by using make-up and what not. The Araknese aggressors also wear muslism clothing, hold stick and knives to take pictures. And they think they’re fooling the world.
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I am a Myanmar. And we faced with that so stupid violence. But we care about our trend cause we are now just starting to Democracy. Our nation is escaped under control of Military Government and just start to transform. As I have an emotion of sympathy, I know about the feeling of both sides. So do not want to stupid again that i want to tell to everybody. Cause these are no Buddhism and Muslim. These are human beings. Care each others and pay respect also. Peace is good for everybody. Otherwise . . . . .
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To 59,
What is Chittagonians? It sure is not an ethic group or religious group since many different racial, ethnic and religious group live in Chittagong.
Seeing events racial and religious lens is your big problem. Until you see humans as humans, not as Burmese or Rakhines (be they Chakma Mogh), Rohingyas, or Bengalis, you will live your days full of misery knowing that your grandchildrem will still be fighting and live the same life you would live. Sad, isn’t it?
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Let’s keep it short and sweet. Regardless of what they are or what they are perceived to be or labelled as, MUSLIMS in Yakhine Pyi have been in the country, legally or illegaly, from at least 5 years to more than 900 years, since the days of Arab sail ship spice traders. There are solid and irrefuteable historical, structural, architechtural evidences to support the claim. Most of the developed and first world, free and democratic countries, pardon and allow illegal immigrants and overstayers after certain period of time and their children born in that country to go through and complete that country’s immigration and legal proceedings and are awarded citizenship. Why not Burma do the same if the new “civilian” government considers itself as “democratic”, “forward looking” and “progressive”?
So far as the unfounded fear of economic dominance by Muslims and population explosion (i.e. Islam will wipe out Buddhism) is concerned, I have this to say: Economic Dominance: You work hard, you earn the bread, you raise your social and financial/economic status yourself; expelling and exterminating the enterprising people from around you is not the solution. It is not just and fair either. This is a competitive world we live in. First deserve by hard work and then desire wealth. Indolence does not deserve any reward on a silver plate. Secondly, Muslims in Burma have been 3-4 percent of the whole population. It is ludicrous and lunatic to even think that their religion will overrun Buddhism in Burma. Not one in a million chance. If you wanna keep and preserve your religion, keep practising it in your daily life; massacring people of other faiths around you is not the Buddhist way to keep your own faith. Besides, in a truly “demoractic” society, everybody – ethnic or non-ethnic, has the right and freedom to practice his/her faith freely and without any fear of persecution, murder, burning, isolation and trade/business boycott. Oh my Burmese Brothers and Sisters, rise to the occasion as true and peace loving Buddhists, be tolerant, get rid of imaginary fears, don’t allow mad monks, politicians, military and their cronies poison your Golden Hearts and Peaceful Minds. Work hard, be diligent, co-exist in peace and harmony, love and be loved, share, shun unfounded and fabricated reasons and speeches of hatred….and let the Golden Land shine once again in the face of the World. Myitta. Burmeseblood.
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If you wanna keep and preserve your religion, keep practising it in your daily life; massacring people of other faiths around you is not the Buddhist way to keep your own.
Except some other religion appears to believe it is. Convert or cull.
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