Fireworks lit up the sky in Pimsiri Sirikaew’s rural hometown after she won a silver medal in the women’s 58-kilogram weightlifting event at the London Olympics. But it seems that the national celebration could be cut short. Her silver medal could be confiscated as she may have violated Article 5o of the Olympic Charter (in force as from 8 July 2011) which forbids all forms of political demonstration or propaganda. Pimsiri held a photo of King Bhumibol Adulyadej during the medal awarding ceremony. It has been unclear as to who has filed a complaint against Pimsiri’s possible breaching of the Olympic Charter to the International Olympic Committee.
Here is the content of Article 50: Advertising, Demonstrations, Propaganda:
- The IOC Executive Board determines the principles and conditions under which any form of advertising or other publicity may be authorised.
- No form of advertising or other publicity shall be allowed in and above the stadia, venues and other competition areas which are considered as part of the Olympic sites. Commercial installations and advertising signs shall not be allowed in the stadia, venues or other sports grounds.
- No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.
It has been somewhat a tradition for Thai Olympians to display a photo of the King as they won medals. So far, there have been only two nations, at the London Olympics, which preserve this tradition of public glorification of their leaders—Thailand and North Korea.
“For King and country” . . . that’s not an unusual message is it?
Will she lose her silver medal because of her display of love for her King? Very very very unlikely.
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A useful perspective. Given the military’s dominance over sports administration in Thailand, the medalists, boxers and so on are usually pressured to make the propagandist display. Hence, it would be sad if the athlete was punished. Even if the display was freely made, the athlete is simply reflecting decades of propaganda. Like NK displays, this has been made the norm.
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Not true!
The British have sung with vigour and love “God Save the Queen” twenty five times so far…
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I do not like political photos being displayed. However, to strip someone of a medal
for displaying them is ridiculous. The countries involved should be warned that they should not do it in future.
As for the 3rd point about political, religious or racial propaganda is not permitted, then they should ban everyone from wearing their countries flag on clothing and flags in the stadium. Medals tables should be banned as well as they foster nationalism. Muslim women who wear head coverings should also be banned as that is a political and religious statement. All advertising falls foul of that rule as their actions around the world are based on political greed and subjucation of peoples.
The rule needs to be changed.
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I hope they don’t take it away, rather issue a warning to all athletes. For a Thai or N. Korean it is rather a religious/Political show of reverence, and rules are rules and are enforced outside of The two above countries.
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If that is the case, Meseret Defar of Ethiopia who won a gold medal in the women 5,000 metre race could also be disqualified as she was seen displaying a religious picture just after finishing the race.Clearly she had breached the Olympic Charter.
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Apologies.
I have just checked with the IOC (International Olympic Committee), it turns out that even the North Korean medallists never held photos of their leader. Many social media networks had shown such images (photos of NK medalists holding photo of their leader), yet these were fake.
Thus, the last paragraph should read:
It has been somewhat of a tradition for Thai Olympians to display a photo of the King as they received medals. So far, Thailand is the only nation, at the London Olympics, which preserves this tradition of public glorification of its leader.
But doesn’t this make Thailand look worse?
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I don’t see it as neither political or religious propaganda in this case. She didn’t get anything from it, neither the King! If you go to Thailand, you could see everywhere the King’s photos because Thai people love him. He might be her inspiration to win the games and she just wanted to show her respect and love. What’s wrong with that? It’s just an expression not a propaganda!
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Areepan,
Not every Thai loves your king. I have been to many places where to photo is not on display. What about LM?
Pavin, Black propaganda takes all forms. 555
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Without duress and from my own free will, I certainly love my King.
And I could fully understand Thai Olympians being so overcome with the emotion of winning silver or gold medals for their country as to proudly hoist up a photo of their Beloved King.
Pavin asks this inane question: So far, Thailand is the only nation, at the London Olympics, which preserves this tradition of public glorification of its leader. But doesn’t this make Thailand look worse?
Why so Pavin? Please do explain.
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What’s really interesting about the controversy over Pimsiri Sirikaew’s propaganda display on the podium is that it shows how profoundly perceptions of Thailand’s monarchy have changed over the past few years — both at home and abroad. For decades the international community and the majority of Thais believed the fairytales that dear old Bhumibol was universally beloved. When Thais held a photograph of their king on an Olympic podium or the summit of Everest or wherever, this was generally regarded as a heart-warming sign of the unquestioning reverence Bhumibol had earned from his loyal subjects.
Those days are over and they can never return. Particularly since 2006, it has been plainly apparent to Thais and foreigners alike that the palace has played a partisan role in Thai politics throughout the country’s modern history. Opinions may differ over whether the political meddling of the king and queen and their children and proxies has been beneficial or damaging for Thailand, but nobody can seriously claim in 2012 that the king is above politics and a unifying figure in Thailand.
Disastrously of course, the monarchy and extreme royalists refuse to accept this, and so Thai athletes still feel pressured to ostentatiously demonstrate their love for the king. And a few bewildered Thais like Areepan Zielonka #8 continue to regurgitate the same tired old clichés (helpfully informing Pavin Chachavalpongpun that “if you go to Thailand, you could see everywhere the King’s photos because Thai people love him” was a particularly comic touch) . But nobody takes these people seriously any more, and to the international community in 2012, it’s no longer seen as endearing for a Thai to display a photograph of the king on the Olympic podium. It’s seen as embarrassing and inappropriate, and rightly so. I doubt Khun Pimsiri will lose her medal, but hopefully the whole episode will teach the Thai authorities that this rather pathetic tradition needs to end.
A great deal has happened since the Beijing Olympics, and if one wants to identify the moment when perceptions were transformed, it was Sirikit’s decision to preside over a Yellow Shirt funeral in October 2008. Since that day, holding a photograph of a Thai royal on the Olympic podium can no longer be defended as an apolitical act. It’s as divisive and inappropriate as holding a photograph of Thaksin Shinawatra while receiving a medal. The game is over. It’s time to stop.
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The Olympics have rules and athletes know what they are. Whether and if they chose to violate them, inadvertently or intentionally, obviously each case should be examined on its merits by the people concerned – the athlete and Olympic officials – not by outside observers.
Engaging in such actions challenges established rules and not only violates them, it sets up precedents for others or reflects some kind of exceptionalism. When id doubt, ask first.
Propaganda is not something everyone in the world chooses to be exposed to. In some areas it is a no-no. As said, it’s simple to be an outside observer and comment on what we see or read, but much different to be the athlete involved or the Olympic committee members who have to make the decision. Our feelings are one thing, reality on the ground quite another.
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Vichai N #10
“I could fully understand Thai Olympians being so overcome with the emotion of winning silver or gold medals for their country as to proudly hoist up a photo of their Beloved King.”
If a Thai Olympian was so overcome with emotion that they proudly hoisted a photo of Thaksin Shinawatra while on the podium, would you regard this as acceptable or not?
If not, please explain the difference to us. They are both very wealthy figures who command significant support among Thais but are also profoundly divisive. Both are central players in the political game. So I’m intrigued to hear your explanation.
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This is a very respectful gesture on her part. The tradition that makes Thai people so lovable.
Something like this would never happen to those Australians. Can you imagine them holding Julia Gillard’s picture ? I bet they chant the names of King Kyle Sandilands or Pauline Hanson !
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Jesse,
The blood curdling comments from the PAD supporters, the attacks on the Nitirat group and the downright hatred eminating from the PAD, military and elite towards everyone who disagrees with them belies your statement about lovable Thais.
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Jesse, Thais are indeed lovable on the first visit, why is it that it starts to rub off on consequent trips? Many Thais are nice but it is a cultural affectation and often not genuine. Most Aussies hate Julia Gillard and also hated Hanson albeit for different reasons, silly comment from someone unused to free speech.
As to the photo, if I was a Thai athlete I would hold it up, to not do could be misconstrued and unhelpful on the return home.
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“This is a very respectful gesture on her part. The tradition that makes Thai people so lovable. ”
Thanks for giving me a “Go to bed with a big smile” memory. Lovable…hmmm…not my first choice of words. Self-infatuated, certainly.
Lovable?………..555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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“If a Thai Olympian was so overcome with emotion that they proudly hoisted a photo of Thaksin Shinawatra while on the podium, would you regard this as acceptable or not?”
Are you serious about this question Andrew McGregor Marshall?
I’ll take this as Red humor . . . and it is very very funny! And yes personally to me it is acceptable . . . I am giggling with approval.
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What I’d like to be able to say had already been said by AMM.
RK is right in saying military figures have dominated the majority of Thai amateur sport associations for a long time. I tend to believe that photo showing nonsense in the history of Thailand’s participation in international sport events, including the current Olympic, has most likely been dictated by these retarded bosses.
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Pushed the ‘Submit’ button too soon.
I don’t agree with depriving this young athlete of her hard earned medal though.
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“Jesse”:
“The tradition that makes Thai people so lovable. ”
…
… Either my racism radar just went off big time, or i just get a serious cringe attack and just want to go hide somewhere far away…
…anyhow, back in 2010 i have photographed a group of pink shirted people led by Dr. Tul with the same lovable gesture of holding up the King’s picture, just before they proceeded in an attempted lynching of a few Red Shirts that happened to pass by that lovable meeting of ultra-royalists.
Times have changed in Thailand since Somluck Kamsing won the first Olympic gold medal for Thailand and displayed the same gesture, and where apart from very small circles in educated elites Thai society then did not question the monarchy.
Now there are large sectors of Thai society that indeed have begun criticizing the institution. In this light we have to look at such such gestures now also in terms of social pressure – are these gestures still a sign of expression of love, or mandatory for an athlete who wants to continue receiving the necessary state support?
While it would be perfectly permissible for an athlete to show his love for the king – part of democracy and freedom of speech and thought is also that royalist Thais are allowed to love their king, what would happen if a winning athlete would decide not to perform this gesture?
Could we one day a similar situation in sports such as the Chotisak Onsoong ‘he who did not stand up’ situation, in which one person (backed by many others) felt it was unlawful enough to file a lese majeste case when another Thai did not publicly show the necessary love and respect?
Where is the line between expression of love and social pressure in today’s Thailand?
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This is about what is in Pimsiri Sirikaew’s mind about the matter. Nothing else is really important, especially comments from a group of people who are speculating about the Thai psych with their imposed values upon the matter. A sporting event is turned into a political commentary just because a picture of the King in Thailand is one of the symbols of nationhood. One can spin many a yarn to justify their comments either way. People display a lot of emotion at the Olympics like stacking on turns if something goes wrong, and nobody is going around saying farangs are spoilt brats, etc. No one is saying the winners of some of the sprints are arrogant because of the shows they put on after they win a medal.
Maybe the intent of the article was to provoke political comment.
So lets be consistent here. The winner of the women’s 5000m showed a religious picture after winning and the last Brit in during the Men’s 50km walk carried the Union Jack the last 300m of the race. Throw them all out for showing emotion and lets keep the hatred up in our comments. The comments say more about the agendas of the writers than the agenda of Pimsiri Sirikaew.
Perhaps if Pimsiri Sirikaew was educated with a PhD I would be much harder upon him, but I only see him as a product of his culture.
Save the hate and cries for justice for all the wrongs for another forum.
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Re: Andrew MacGregor Marshall // Aug 11, 2012 at 6:21 pm
You asked “If a Thai Olympian was so overcome with emotion that they proudly hoisted a photo of Thaksin Shinawatra while on the podium, would you regard this as acceptable”
The answer is “No, it’s not acceptable because he was a politician and it would count as a propaganda as his sister is a present Thai prime minister.”
It’s funny by the way how you compare someone who have been working hard for the country (that’s why we love him not just because he’s a “king”) to another person who took advantage as much as he could while he got the power for himself and his family.
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Vichai N,
You are totally wrong. The majority of Thai people prefer Thaksin to any other person in Thailand. It’s the truth.
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I think it would be good if the Olympics abolished team sports and national identification and went for the true expression of the motto “Faster, Higher, Stronger” and admitted athletes to the competition only on the basis of that. Even if all the swimming golds were won by Americans, even if only the Swiss won all the down hill slaloms. And any competitor should be allowed to express themselves politically in whatever way they wish.
One of the great moments in Olympic history was the black power salute of the Gold and Silver US winners in Mexico 1968. And it was also good that they talked to the Australian bronze medallist beforehand about what they were going to do. And he was with them.
Jesse, I don’t know why you’ve got it in for Australians so much. If they want to hold up a picture of the Queen of Australia or The King of Thailand or Kyle Sandilands or Julia Gillard, then I think they should be free to do so.
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Areepan 23 – “It’s funny by the way how you compare someone who have been working hard for the country (that’s why we love him not just because he’s a “king”) to another person who took advantage as much as he could while he got the power for himself and his family.”
Just an FYI, the King is mentioned *exactly* 200 times in the 2007 Constitution. Each instance grants him absolute power over nearly every action the elected government can make.
You might want to ask yourself where the King gets his money from, given he is the richest monarch in the world. You don’t get rich by giving.
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Can you imagine the political fallout in Thailand if the medalist is denied the medal for holding up a picture of you know who?
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The point several people seem to be missing is that a photograph of King Bhumibol is no longer a unifying and universally accepted symbol of Thai national pride.
Thailand is bitterly divided over the behaviour and influence of its royal family and their appropriate role in the 21st century. Wherever you personally stand in that debate, you can’t pretend it’s not taking place.
The results of the 2007 constitutional referendum and the 2011 general election clearly showed how conflicted Thailand is over the monarchy and demonstrated that millions of Thais are uneasy with the current actions of the palace.
In that context, holding a photograph of Bhumibol on the Olympic podium is an inherently political act.
It’s quite different from wrapping oneself in a national flag because in most countries (there are exceptions) the national flag is not a contested or divisive symbol.
Vichai N #18 tried to lamely laugh off the question of whether it would be appropriate to hold a photograph of Thaksin Shinawatra on the podium and suggested that I must be “Red” for asking it. Areepan Zielonka #23 said holding a photograph of Thaksin would be inappropriate because he is a politician, while the king is non-political and loved by all Thais. Both seem to be (either wilfully or out of genuine ignorance) missing the key point that the palace is a profoundly controversial player in contemporary Thai politics. So let me say it again: whether you personally love the king or not, you cannot be taken seriously in a debate about Thai politics in 2012 if you pretend the debate about the monarchy is not taking place at all.
Like many others who have posted above, I hope Khun Pimsiri keeps her medal, and I regard it as extremely unlikely that she will be stripped of it. But I also hope the episode is a wake-up call for Thai officials that ends the practice of pressuring Thai athletes to clutch Bhumibol’s photograph.
The issue of whether it’s right or wrong to strip an athlete of a medal for an overt political or religious display is a separate one. As has been observed by other contributors to this discussion, it certainly has not been consistently applied in the history of the Olympics. The claim that politics is absent from international sport is as absurd as the claim that the Thai monarchy is apolitical. But whatever one’s views on whether athletes should be allowed to make political statements, let’s be clear that holding a photograph of Thailand’s king in 2012 is a political act.
I’ll end with another question (and I hope Vichai N finds it as amusing as my previous one). If a Thai medal winner who personally does not love the king were to hold up an anti-monarchist image (a picture of Khun Saab Sueng, for example) or an anti-112 symbol on the Olympic podium, would that be appropriate too? Or is it only acceptable to display support for King Bhumibol but not opposition to him?
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The King is the part of our flag. If we do not accepted our King we will take the blue color out of our flag. Like you take out your star out of your flag.
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I have minor points to make.
1. Pimsiri’s behaviour was intentional; she chose to hold the photo of the king at that particular moment, when million of people around the world were watching. The fact that the king himself is a political actor, powerful and yet divisive, allows one to question if Pimsiri’s act could be intepreted as political propaganda.
2. Another fact: the King is not loved by all Thais.
3. “We” should not be used to refer to all Thais.
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” . . . whether you personally love the king or not, you cannot be taken seriously in a debate about Thai politics in 2012 if you pretend the debate about the monarchy is not taking place at all.”
Oh the debate about the monarchy is indeed taking place and by Thais and maybe on a near daily basis. But that is another matter . . . and come reckoning time (HMK’s passing) the Thais will settle it their way, awkwardly as usual, but their way, AND, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Olympics medal HMK-photo-hoisting-gesture.
Andrew MacGreggor Marshall had waded into the ridiculous and the absurd to suggest that there is something ‘solemn and sublime’ about ‘hoisting a Thaksin (a Thai figure of unaldurated derision) photo’ in an Olympic medals award ceremony.
But hey the Reds could hold their own Esan athletics . . . the hoist every Thaksin silly photos at every event.
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Areepan Zielonka – 23
The motto “he who has been working hard for the country” was formulated in the 70s-80s by the CIA in order to counter the communist threat. Its a irony that you stated it as a “fact” and not “propaganda”. However, the monarchy is smart enough to act “apolitical” to preserved its legitimacy throughout its resurgence to power since Salit coup of 1957 . Taken that into consideration the monarchy has been “politicized” itself heavily since 2006 coup. As AMM said, the image of the monarch has changed dramatically and was not held to the same regard.
And as a side note, not all Thais love their king, that statement is a delusion and you should woke up and face the truth.
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#22: “Perhaps if Pimsiri Sirikaew was educated with a PhD I would be much harder upon him, but I only see him as a product of his culture”
Sounds like a very mixed up culture to me
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What about when Cathy Freeman did her lap of honour in 2000 , She had Aborginal Flag on displayed , do you consider this political statement? Olympic Game never be free from politic , “Cold War” boycott in Moscow 1980 and in LA 1984 , “Black power” statment in 1968 , Taiwan flag controversy in 2000 , and Tibet protest against China in 2008.
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My last comment on this subject.
The companies advertising at the Olympics advertise to make more money and to show the world how good they are when they treat workers in the third world like scum and pollute everything they touch. If companies can make political statements to hide the truth, why not the main players, the athletes? Politics and sport have mixed since the Greeks first thought up the Olympic games and will continue until someone decides to blow up the world.
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@joe_jitti (31):
What part of “Article 5o of the Olympic Charter (in force as from 8 July 2011)” don’t you understand?
RV
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Removing the medal from this athlete would only be a massive PR coup for the royalists. Dumb move.
US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals in 1968 – turned them, quite rightly, into folk heroes and they’ve now had a movie made about them. If this Thai athlete was stripped of their medal they’d instantly be compared to the Smith/Carlos – that would be appalling.
Also not sure the world cares much if a Thai athlete holds up a picture of the king or anyone else – and not sure this has been reported in UK or anywhere else. International image changed? Nah, as I’m not sure too many people have even noticed. Biggest Thai-angled Olympic story in international media has been last night’s dodgy boxing result.
Another interesting Olympic fact is that the Juan Antonio Samaranch who was boss of the Olympics for 30years was once a card carrying member of Franco’s fascist party. There’s a photo here which claims to be of Samaranch making a Nazi salute at a commemoration for Hitler. Nice.
http://www.transparencyinsport.org/The_IOCs_Favourite_Fascist/the_iocs_favourite_fascist.html
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Andrew Spooner #36: US sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos were stripped of their medals….
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No, Andrew, they were never stripped off their medals. A look on the medal tables for 1968, will show that.
They were thrown out from the Olympic village/US delegation, period.
(wikipedia excerpt):
IOC president Avery Brundage deemed a political statement unfit for the apolitical, international forum the Olympic Games was supposed to be. In an immediate response to their actions, he ordered Smith and Carlos suspended from the U.S. team and banned from the Olympic Village. Many supporters, however, praised the men for their bravery. The men’s gesture had lingering effects for all three athletes, the most serious of which were death threats against Carlos, Smith, and their families. Although it has been reported that Carlos and Smith were stripped of their medals, Carlos has indicated this is not true and his medal is with his mother.
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It is true that not all Thais love their King. But for Pimsiri and many Thais, the custom of holding his portrait is still associated to the Thai nationhood in their thoughts.
If she is not pressed from the Thai authorities to do so (will we know for sure?), it is a personal act to be ‘herself’ and in a moment that she represented a nation and associated to the national constitution she hold to. Of course, this might not represent the concept of a nation preferred by some Thais (it would make them feel left out during Pimsiri’s celebration).
I am not saying, in the current context of Thai political climate, that the act is now apolitical but this needs, still, a set of interpretation. It doesn’t look like a direct political act. It might, in the case of the Black Power salute or if the Scottish or Aboriginal flags were displayed in celebration.
We should condemn if Thai authorities insist that all Thai athletes must act this way. But if it is a personal position, and as other athletes from other countries can display their national identities in ways that hide or resurface national conflicts, why this one should not be unyeilded?
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Winyu #40
As you say yourself, we can never really know whether a Thai athlete who holds an photograph of King Bhumibol on the podium is doing so voluntarily out of a genuine reverence for their monarch or because of the immense pressure from Thai society and Thai sports officials to do so.
Athletes are well aware of the ostracism and social media hate campaigns they may face if they do not proclaim their love for the king. Plus they could see financial and logistical support for their training suddenly start to evaporate.
Love and respect are only meaningful if they are freely given, and since we generally have no way of knowing whether Thai athletes are acting voluntarily and with genuine sincerity, the gesture of holding Bhumibol’s photograph has become essentially worthless.
It also reflects the insecurity and vanity of the royalist establishment. Plenty of British medal winners are (unlike me) proud royalists but they don’t feel a need to ostentatiously proclaim this at every opportunity, and nobody pressures them to do so. Were they to wave a photograph of Queen Elizabeth on the podium, most Britons (including most royalists) would rightly consider it a rather embarrassing and inappropriate thing to do.
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A Korean athlete deemed to have made a political statement at these Olympics was excluded from an award ceremony.
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Storm in a tea cup I think. I would think that Pimsiri would be unaware that her gesture was anything other than showing love for her king and country, I am pretty sure that she wouldn’t understand the modern political undertones of the action. Given that, I would say that this is a personal action. Now, some may argue that she has been educated (brainwashed) or ‘encouraged’ into this action, that may be so, but the fact is that she is an adult and can make her own decisions.
I am 100% certain that there is no standing order from sports bosses that the King’s image must be displayed when winning a medal, so, it would seem that this is the free will of an athlete who does not understand (or care) for the political ramifications of the action and is just completing a time-honored tradition of Thai athletes. We should be probably taking the gesture in this light – until we find out otherwise.
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I do keep reading the claim by many that Pimsiri ‘chose’ to display the photo. I know as much as they as to whether or not this is true. What I myself might dare to claim is that was NOT her choice. She may have been more than willing, but the picture was handed to her to be displayed, by a someone with particular reason to do so. That reason, as all who know this dear Kingdom well, was pure propoganda. The same hand that passed that photo has passed that picture to many others. It has a foul stench to it.
Let the athlete keep her medal, I say, but if someone judged that it shouldn’t be, then perhaps it would be good for the whole country, notwithstanding the certain outcry from all, monarchists or otherwise.
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Areepan #23
“It’s funny by the way how you compare someone who have been working hard for the country (that’s why we love him not just because he’s a “king”) to another person who took advantage as much as he could while he got the power for himself and his family.”
I seriously doubt that. An initial belief system is almost fully formed by the age of about 12 years old in most people. That belief system is hard to shift after that age, no matter how insidious and damaging it is. Initial belief systems are generally adopted not developed, which means that you probably love the king because you’ve been told to. And because you’ve been told that you aren’t really a worthwhile person unless you do. Many, many times.
This is the insidious and destructive nature of the Thai propaganda machine, which was created by the CIA precisely in order to develop a compliant and unquestioning population which would cheerfully support American imperialist ambitions and their need to export illegal or uncivilised behaviours (eg rendition centers) to an offshore friend – Thailand.
In my estimation, opinions are generally better if they are informed rather thant just knees jerking.
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Here, feed on this;
“I am very sorry that I could not win a gold medal,” Kaew said.
“I wanted to win it for the King and the Queen and for all the Thai people and I am very disappointed that I failed to do it.”
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“An initial belief system is almost fully formed by the age of about 12 years old in most people. That belief system is hard to shift after that age, no matter how insidious and damaging it is. Initial belief systems are generally adopted not developed, which means that you probably love the king because you’ve been told to.”
Now how do I reconcile Thropic’s insight with the ‘belief system’ of the Red Shirts?
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As has been previously mentioned, Thai sports administration is dominated by the armed forces. In addition Pimsiri has indicated her desire to enter the army.
I’m sure both of these had a bearing on her display of the photo.
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Kaew Pongprayoon on so narrowly failing (unfairly in my view) to get the gold medal in the light-flyweight Olympic boxing final at London’s ExCeL Arena
“I wanted to win it for the King and the Queen and for all the Thai people and I am very disappointed that I failed to do it.’’
Was he pressured to say this? We don’t know.
Does anyone actually have evidence that Pimsiri Sirikaew was pressured or forced to hold up this picture? I think this is all a storm in a tea cup. It’s all just speculation. She is the one who won the medal and as far as I am concerned that gives her the right to say what she like as long as it’s within the rules. Officially HRM is ‘above’ politics. That may or may not actually be the case, but it is the ‘official’ position and it certainly isn’t particularly likely for a winning Thai athlete to be the very public stalking horse for changing social attitudes in Thailand…. Nor is it very realistic to expect that to be the case.
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South Korean Denied Medal Over Politics…
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/sports/olympics/south-korean-soccer-player-park-jong-soo-denied-medal-over-politics.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&fb_source=message
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Well, I do appreciate all of foreigners who are so interested in Thai affairs, Olympic Games, Politics or our King. And for some Thais who hate the King while you yourself have never ever beat him on what he has done for his whole life for Thais . There is one thing I would like to remind you of, you may criticize a pair of shoes without wearing them for the whole of your life. But can you really convince yourself that you really feel that shoes?
Want to know the King, come to Thailand. Do your homework on His Majesty Projects. Then criticize as you want. But please don’t do it without a real hard work. It is easier said than done.
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Nitt,
Although I previously stated that I had my last word on this subject, I am compelled to reply to your comment about “doing your homework on his majesties projects”. I am not allowed to read books or study your king in detail. The books have been banned for LM content and I cannot speak the truth for fear of crossing the line and spending many years in prison.
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Andrew #39
It is true and absurd that it is politically correct to proclaim love and respect to the King in nearly every formal occassion in Thailand. But in terms of social exclusion or funding, I think there is a big difference between saying publicly that you hate the monarchy and you say nothing at all. Pimsiri can choose only to affiliate herself with the term ‘chat’ (nation), kiss the Thai flag and that’s it. Sadly, it has long been a custom to particularly associate the King, so I personally think that she did it because of the ‘moment’; it was the first medal in the event. If she is still happy to do it, that should be alright. Yes, it could be considered meaningless when we try to think whether the act is pressured or voluntary.
I agree that I couldn’t imagine a Brit hold the Queen’s photo on the podium but to compare royalists of two different societies is not so right. It is maybe awkward for international community but if there were no political conflicts in Thailand where the monarchy is thought to be related (and actually only those who are interested in Thailand would know this), the custom of holding a king’s photo by an athlete on an international podium from a developing nation would be understandable isn’t it? It would be like seeing Keaw (the silver medalist) strangely bowed and prayed for so long near the boxing ring.
But as you suggested above, the act of holding the King’s portrait on stages cannot be interpreted from one view anymore.
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Do you know the meaning of each colour of our Thai flag?
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Nitt – 49
The shoe criticizing example in oxymoron, almost the same thing can be said on the other side of the fence. Now, the point of the whole thing is not about doing homework before criticise but the ability to criticise without risking a jail term or harassment. Ajarn Somsak probably has done way more research into the matter than the most hardcore royalist themselves and yet he is being threaten of 112 and other abuse.
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Anne thropic @43,
Have you heard about the CIA and those imperialist Americans and their secret installations they are setting up on Mars? Thailand isn’t the only place. They were also behind the bird flu epidemic here. And they also perverted Thais with their sex madness. Thai people were pure before they came here.
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Thailand is democracy but do the same as autocracy country, North Korea!
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Carlos and Smith are both interviewed in BBC pieces in recent weeks. Worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18795649
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18134003
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“Andrew MacGreggor Marshall had waded into the ridiculous and the absurd to suggest that there is something ‘solemn and sublime’ about ‘hoisting a Thaksin (a Thai figure of unaldurated derision) photo’ in an Olympic medals award ceremony. ”
Like beauty, Vichai, solemnity and sublimity are in the eye of the beholder.
You have your views but you should try and take other views into account. Whatever you might think about him, it is patently clear that many Thais do not think of Thaksin as a figure of “undadulterated derision”.
You mention that Esan people hoist photos of Thaksin at every opportunity. I’m sure some do. Are these Esan people people? If they are, it’s clear that the derision of Thaksin is at least a little bit adulterated.
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Funny thing about hard work. I have never in my life been accused of “working hard”, for planning something, and then occasionally showing up for a brief photo op, and making an occasional brief speech .
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Just came upon this post. Quite a lot of comments so far. Very interesting.
I just read another report that a footballer from South Korea (not North) will lose his medal because of displaying a political sign: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-19234407
I guess it all comes down to if whether the Thai monarch is to be considered part of politics or somehow “above” them in Thailand. I’m assuming that the whole “above” thing will be a harder sell for those not ingrained in the culture from childhood.
Please continue to post updates. Thanks.
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The question of whether Pim was compelled to hold up the king’s image can be answered thus: Thailand has won 24 medals since 1976. Did all of them hold up images of the king? Or just all of them since 1996? If even one failed to do so (especially since 1996) then there is no “policy.”
What I would have loved to see: a Thai medalist holding up a picture of the Crown Prince. “To wish him a happy 60th birthday. He is beloved by all Thais.”
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#56 Tom Hoy
“Are these Esan people people? If they are, it’s clear that the derision of Thaksin is at least a little bit adulterated.”
Pimsiri is by birth. She is from KK. Kaew is not. He is from Kampaeng Phet…. Home to one of the most beautiful Sukhothai era historical parks (largely ignored)…. and a couple of very, very noisy discos…..
Not that any of this makes a blind bit of difference… Since even in areas in which one particular political group (or mafia clan) is dominant, most factions have a presence.
Pheu Thai Party MP Thanik Maseepitak said, “Khon Khaen people will give her a hero’s welcome upon her return.”
So all the mean-spirited mountains-out-of-molehills being whipped here don’t seem to be bothering the fine people of Kon Khaen, who are justifiably proud of what she has achieved. Good on her….
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Tom Hoy is right to note that Vichai seems to make a separation between “Thais” and “Esarn people.”
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OWWB
I am not questioning the fine achievements of the medal winners nor am I interested in dissecting their particular political and social views. I was merely pointing out the contradictions in Vichai N’s statement that while many Esan people hoist photos of Thaksin at every opportunity, at the same time he is held in “undadulterated derision”. Quite clearly he is not.
I support the rights of all people to hold photos of whoever they choose to.
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Haha #41
Best contribution so far.
It took 40 posts to get to a sensible post based not on personal agendas, but on simple common sense, which most discussions on thai affairs lack too often.
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Haha@41: “I am 100% certain that there is no standing order from sports bosses that the King’s image must be displayed when winning a medal…”. Evidence for such a claim?
And, are you also 100% certain that if not a “standing order” then an order or suggestion to her?
It does seem unlikely, but I am not 100% certain,” that each potential medal winner would carry with them a picture of the king in uniform just in case they did win.
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#61 Tom Hoy
“I support the rights of all people to hold photos of whoever they choose to.”
Yep…..
#60 Ralph Kramden
“Tom Hoy is right to note that Vichai seems to make a separation between “Thais” and “Esarn people.”
There is a difference. Isan is mainly not Thai. Lao and Khmer and Thai. Isan is a mixture… One of the things that makes it such an interesting region.
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Step back a little people and look at ourselves. All these Thai huff and puff and guff about which photo to hoist at what Thai special occasions should leave us all with guffaws . . . yes?
Questions to Tom Hoy:
(1) Will I be treated with derision (or worse) at an Esan social gathering if I showed them a HMK’s photo (instead of Thaksin’s)?
(2) Could a Thaksin photo in one’s person be enough protection against an extra-judicial policeman’s bullet?
It does seem to suggest that these days it may be wise precaution in Bangkok to carry both Thaksin/HMK photos. Just be sure than when challenged in an unknown alley, you fish out the ‘politically correct photo’ for that life-and-death moment.
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I follow the link from UDD’s facebook page to here and found unbelievable outsider’s comments. There are UDD around here so I should not be surprised, shouldn’t I.
Some westerners here and UDD use their own standards to judge the matter without ture understanding or Thai culture and politics.
I don’t know how you come up with idea that more Thai people love Taksin than our King. It’s absolutely wrong. Ask UDD, some of them love Taksin and love King too, not all of them love Taksin and hate King. Taksin’s party Phuethai won election from 15 millions votes. Thai population is 60 millions. Is that the majority?
King for western and Thai have different meaning.
Many Thais even call King as father.
King does not involve in politics but the politicians, PAD, UDD tried to dragged him in their game.
Taksin is a politician, he’s done for his own benefit not the nation.
King Bhumibol whether he wants to be king or not, he’s done for national benefits. I see with my eyes not from propaganda especially in the rural area.
Outsiders get insightful information and you will understand more. However, it’s hard for many people to change their own belief and value especially who already judged with biased attitude.
Thai Olympian show King’s picture as traditional as inspiration and we consider him as father of Thai. I don’t think it’s violent the IOC rule to show family’s picture.
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If you think King use propaganda to gain loyalty.
Taksin can not do that? He hires lobbyist, PR to work for him.
Maybe in this websites too.
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Chanida @66
‘Many Thais even call King as father.’
I’m curious how long this has been the practice in Thailand.
Is it something that predated the present monarch’s reign?
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Chanida’s comment brought a question to mind. The King is considered by the Thais to be the father of all Thais. I have never seen the statistics, but I will hazard a guess that the “Thais” are a minority in their own country. The East and Northeast are predominantly Lao and Khmer, in the south a mixture of sea faring people, in the North, whatever mixture of races from the Lanna Kingdom, where they were not Thai citizens until roughly 100 years ago, plus a large number of various Hilltribes, and on top of that, there are a large number of people who have migrated to Thailand in the last 50 years, immigrants, no matter what our visa says.
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Maybe I am side-tracking from the topic and then again maybe not. But Andrew MacGreggor Marshall started it with his Thaksin-photo-hoisting-at-the-Olympic-medals-awarding, and Tom Hoy said that would be beautiful indeed (beauty, solemnity and the sublime all existing in the eyes of the beholder).
Has anyone watched yet the video clip of the Russian Pussy Riots recent anti-Putin performance at the Moscow Orthodox Church that earned the ‘Pussies’ a 2-year sentence for hooliganism? Their performance (at a church!) was awful, sacrilegious and (not understanding Russian) full of profanities I am guessing. But that must have been intentional from the ‘Pussies’ to make their ‘artistic’ political anti-Putin point.
My point to Marshall, Hoy and maybe the Christians among the NM readers, should the Pussies be condemned or praised? Everything about that particular Pussy Riot’s performance was un-beautiful, un-solemn and un-sublime . . . and at a church (blasphemy!). Artistic? Sir Paul McCartney seem to to think so and he is Sir Paul . . . so what do I know.
There’s a time and a place for the beautiful and the sublime. Hoisting a Thaksin photo at an Olympics medals ceremony will NOT be beautiful and will NOT be sublime. Why that would . . . er almost be ‘hooliganism’!
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Ron Torrence
People like you are the one that try to create conflicts in the society. The people in the area you mentioned are THAIS. No matter how you want to dig up their backgrounds. And we are all of same race. The people who lived in Lanna were Asians in appearance. And in case you don’t know we have been living in this land longer than the white people that took the land in Australia. We were quite lovable that we didn’t find idiotic reasons to genocide people who looked or talked different to us. Eventually we became one.
- When Lanna became part of Siam, the King used intelligent tactic by distributing newspapers, books for Lanna people to feel a part of Siam and to learn the language
- When you came to Australia, you killed and banned the native people from speaking their own languages.
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Vichai N
It doesn’t really matter whether you or I or Andrew Magregor Marshall thinks that a particular protest is beautiful or not.
What matters is that people should be able to say what they think.
I won’t be responding to any more of your posts because you twist people’s words and say that they said things that they did not say.
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Jesse -72
Such an irony Jesse, did our king forget to distribute the same newspaper/book in the south??
Chanida – 67
The difference between the two is you can criticized one but you cant do the same with the other.
Maybe you should study a bit about our king staller projects, like how the fake rain really not so effective since it didn’t help much with drought because there’s no way to redirect the cloud to the area where the water is really needed or the Pakpanang reservoir project that totally devastated the ecosystem that our bird nest industry is in shamble.
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Jesse, your anti- Australian rants are wasted on me, and why are you insulting me by calling me an Australian, when I have never set foot on that continent, and find most of the tourists from there offensive.
And after 25 years up in these hills, I have learned that the Lanna people do have their own written language, and history, and one can recognize the Chinese and Thai immigrants to this area by their physical features and a different point of view than those who have inhabited this area for hundreds of years. And the old people here have told me that up until about a hundred years ago, there were very few Thai people up here outside of a few soldiers and Kings officials
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“Jesse”:
Oh my…the racism bell goes overdrive.
I am sorry to have to tell you this, but we *ALL* are of the same race as we share the same ancestry: a small group of homo sapiens that left Africa about 50 000 years ago. Yes – your and my ancestors were both black skinned Negroids, and even further back – they were amoeba that over millions of years turned into moneys, and than developed into early humanoids, slowly creeping along the ladder of evolution.
The difference between your “asian” and my “white” appearance is nothing but a very slight adaptation to the climate our ancestors grew up in – hardly a difference in our genes. Like it or not – we are of the same race.
Thais in particular are a amazing mixture of different cultures, mostly due to centuries/millennia of many waves of migrations to the region that is now Thailand, and its geo-political position of an important trade center. The homogeneity of the *Thai race* is nothing but a very recent artificial construct of ideology, and not supported by science.
As to genocidal tendencies, i believe that when going back in history and looking how *Thailand* became the nation it is now, quite a bit of genocide was employed by your ancestors as well. Siam taking over parts of Laos and the kingdom of Pattani did not go exactly by being *lovable*…
And as Thais being “one”, outsiders “creating” conflicts – sorry, but i have rarely read such rubbish here. Thailand is highly divided, artificially held together by a outdated and collapsing state ideology, and on the way of modernization, in which the differences and divisions in society can be accepted and healed by a not yet found new social contract. The conflict is a natural result of this process, an inevitable process that many societies went through already, and others not yet.
And please do not start with Thai exceptionalism – Thailand is not any more different from the rest of the world as any other country/society is.
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Nick, you have such a way of putting things, I couldn’t have said it as well. You summed it up quite well.
Hope I did not upset any Australians with my sarcasm.
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Jesse #72
Leaving aside Lanna (where the ethnicity and language is closer to that of Luang Prabang than Central Thailand), in 1826 the new king of Vieng Chan, Chao Anou (who was originally Siamese educated and Siam sponsored), attacked the Siamese but was quickly driven back. Chao Anou died a captive in Bangkok and Vieng Chan was sacked by the Siamese whilst its population was driven into exile en masse east of the Mekong to Siam, large parts of which remain heavily Lao in character to this day. All of Laos was now under the Thai thumb…… A situation altered subsequently by French incursion. This event in the history of the region is defining marker in both Lao and Thai history….. The division is largely a false one anyway. One of the wonderful things about Thailand as a country are the varied ethnicities of the peoples….. And, in many ways, the Lao and Khmer influence is more ‘defining’ across the nation than what one might consider purely ‘Thai’…. This is a neutral historical observation….. Not an attempt to undermine any pride anyone may feel in being Thai (or indeed Lao)….. The modern ‘Thai’ identity is as mixed up as the modern ‘English’ identity….. Nothing wrong with that.
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OWWB , good observations, agrees with my own reading and understanding. By the way, we have strayed way off of the original topic, but a good discussion, even pushed some buttons and drew in some of the regular trolls to express their views, it is good to hear them , reminds one of their point of view. This family I married into, we have some of the rising thirty-somethings in Bangkok and have some rather interesting discussions when they are up visiting.
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(1) First Pavin Chachavalpongpun voiced his embarrassment that Thai silver medalist Pimsiri Sirikaew proud hoisting of HMK’s photo during her medals awarding ceremony (suggesting even that her medal could be “snatched” because of this breach of Olympics ethiquette).
(2) Then Andrew MacGreggor Marshall chided the “Thai authorities that this rather pathetic tradition (hoisting HMK’s photo on such momentous Thai international events) needs to end.”
(3) Andrew MacGreggor Marshall followed with his strong suggestion “hoisting Thaksin’s photo” (on such occasions) could NOT be inappropriate. Certainly not said Tom Hoy hinting that would be beautiful (‘in the eyes of the beholder’) indeed.
(4) But in between were the more lively exchanges by Chanida, Torrance, Tarrin and then Nick Nostitz who overreached even himself with his poster insulting just about everyone by suggesting we are all from ‘monkeys’ descent.
(And my wife almost called the doctor because I could not control my shake-and-rattle convulsions after reading Nostitz!)
Reading NM blogs is better than any comic section of any newspaper, don’t you all think so?
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Hi Vichai
You write that Nick’s comment on evolution is insulting to ‘almost everyone’.
For the record, it’s not to me.
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#78 Ron
“we have strayed way off of the original topic”
Indeed … A little bit… Apart from getting my ‘East’s’ and ‘Wests’ mixed up my minor point was that the birth of the modern geographical area that is now the Kingdom of Thailand was not one only of peaceful aquisition as implied by one contributor. The Siam-Laos conflict of 1826-1828 resulted in the forcible (and by implication violent or unpleasant) re-location of the Lao peoples east of the Mekong to the Korat Plateau. It wasn’t all beatific and willing absorption. Much of the rest of it was defined by argy bargy and deals with both the Brits and the French (including the carving up of Lao areas subsequent to the Franco-Siamese conflict of 1893). The provinces of Sisaket and Surin are still regarded by many Khmers as an aspect of ‘kampuchea Khrom’. The drive to ‘Thainess’ in many, many parts of the modern Thai state is only a century old. The supplementary point was on the cultural and ethnical richness that modern Thailand is made up of. This is not just about Thainess and indeed ‘Isan’ is not really North East Thailand culturally speaking. It is ‘Central Lao’…. Having said that, none of this affects Thai peoples’ justified pride in a winning athlete, from whatever region of the Kingdom it might be – Satun, Mae Hong Son, Mukdahan or indeed Bangkok….
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Sorry . . . I really nearly ‘lost it’ after reading Nostitz (you Nostitz and not Jessee were on overdrive with this poster).
And sincere apologies to Nostitz for making light of his impassioned Darwinian reminder that ‘we were after all from monkeys or tadpoles evolved’. Keep an open mind Nostitz.
If we evolved from monkeys but . . . how did we ‘evolve’ our humanity and the human spiritual ‘soul’ Nostitz?
But I am digressing.
What I really wanted to know is, and considering how close the ‘rapport’ of Nostitz and the Red Shirts . . . and considering many Red Shirts were so enraged by the ‘buffalo’ slur (and other things) as to rampage and torch Bangkok to the ground . . . were the Reds offended by Nostitz ‘you-are-from-monkeys-descent-too-you-Reds’ unifying universal peace message?
(That’s how I am certain JohnH (#80) is NOT a Red!)
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“JohnH”:
I think Vichai N. was kidding there
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Vichai #79
I cannot see in which way Nick’s reference to a simple fact–evolution–can be in any way insulting.
“And my wife almost called the doctor because I could not control my shake-and-rattle convulsions after reading Nostitz!”
If this is really true, you do need to consult a doctor. Do not postpone it…
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Nick and Vichai:
Are there differences between Darwinism and evolution ? This red shirt is for sale:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/295477_468595446484220_675968793_n.jpg
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Is that Red art you’re inviting a critique Tukkae? In my opinion . . that Red art sucks.
I think I mentioned this before in some NM thread somewhere. The Reds are very deficient in artistic expression. The Red art it seems is limited to hoisting Thaksin’s photo at nearly every (violent or non-violent) Red event.
The Reds have yet to artistically bare their ‘souls’ so to speak.
And maybe with more artistic expression, the Reds could discover the toxicity of their idolatry of Thaksin and their ideology of hatred (of ‘us’ against ‘them’.
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“Vichai N”:
“The Reds are very deficient in artistic expression.”
If you discuss art here in general with curators and gallerists (other than the ones that have a financial stake in Thai art), you will find that most are of the view that art in Thailand generally is quite deficient apart from a few exceptions, such a the late Montien Boonma.
You will also find that the majority of Thai artists have chosen to side with yellow, and by choosing so are receiving many of the benefits available, such as gallery space, funding, etc.
The few artists that are openly on the Red side, if you speak with them, have been blocked from funding and exhibition space.
Art in Thailand is everything else than free, but tightly controlled by the state and patronage networks. Which is one of the main reasons that the Thai art scene, compared to Indonesia’s, for example, is to the most part mediocre at best.
Nevertheless, there are a few artists that have chosen to be openly on the Red Side, and have produced quite a few impressive pieces, such as a young group of artists that have after 2010 began to show large canvasses at protests. In Chiang Mai there is a group of Red artists.
On stages of progressive Red Shirt groups reading of poetry is a regular feature.
While most well known protest musicians have played on the PAD stages, such as Hammer, some very notable music has been composed and performed on the Red side as well. One example is Gin Gamachon’s very strong song ‘Nacsuu Turidin’. Also some quite existing Mor Lam is performed on Red Stages as well.
Therefore – no – you are quite wrong with your statement.
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Nostitz says that “. . . the few artists that are openly on the Red side . . . have been blocked from funding and exhibition space.”
Who is doing the blocking Nostitz? I could NOT imagine any peaceful artistic expressions by artists sympathetic to the Red cause could be blocked under the Yingluck/Thaksin government . . . If this is true, why that calls for new angry Red protests at the streets, yes?
For really gifted artists (Red or otherwise) I could also NOT imagine funding or exhibition space being a problem. Surely the ATM-cash-dispensing style of this Yingluck quick-to-compensate government could easily embrace struggling Red artists too . . . and there are also many Thai millionaires/billionaires who are/were beneficiaries of the Yingluck/Thaksin ‘largesse’ of favors/connections who could make wonderful sponsors.
But on Nostitz point that Thailand as a whole is deficient of good art and good artists, I totally agree.
(I am thinking of converting to art myself . . . my first masterpiece being a full monthy painting of Thaksin that could be hoisted at any public or private lavatory for inspiration.)
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“Vichai N”:
Art allows to question everything – including oneself, society and morals. But the Thai state does clearly not give this freedom – and that is regardless who is at any time in government. The few progressive Red Shirt groups with the educational and financial luxury that enables them to dabble in luxuries such as art are anyhow only very loosely allied with Thaksin and the present government as their demands on the Thai state are much more fundamental.
The art scene in Thailand is still quite depending on funding and gallery space, which again is depending on patronage networks very closely bound to state mechanisms. Even and especially “protest art” and “political art” is bound on the same. Local collectors to the most part only collect either foreign art, or the same old Buddhist themes which can be hung in bank headquarters and corporate offices.
Foreign funding may be an option, but the same state mechanisms have since decades occupied the international mechanisms that enable funding, such as important curator positions and key foundations that recommend artists for such funding. The whole thing is somehow a closed and self perpetuating system, in which artists that do criticize what the Thai state does not allow to will find no support whatsoever.
Thai art functions quite similar like the whole Thai state: keep your head down, go with the flow, listen to your elders. and you will be carried along – you may eventually end up as “National Artist”…
Look, for example, how pseudo protest artists such as Vasan Sittikhet still receive funding and opportunities. At the same time, if you analyze his “protest art”, he will always only go to the borders that are allowed, and will never cross them. When, after ’92, it was alright to criticize the military, he did so. When Isarn was fashionable, he painted Isarn portraits (albeit closely copying the stile of Baselitz), and when it was permitted to criticize Thaksin – he appeared on yellow stages. Yet when the PAD and the establishment had a fallout in 2011 – Vasan was not seen anywhere close to the PAD stages. Always the survivor…posing as a politically critical artist, but massively benefiting from the same system he pretends to criticize. And he isn’t the only one.
Look at the art at PAD protests, for example: little Buddha paintings, sycophantic royalist portraits and childishly polemic anti-red propaganda. It makes one shudder… The few artists one the Red side, while still maybe lacking somewhat in style and artistic expression, at least in spirit went much further in questioning their social environment.
A typical example for the sad state of affairs in Thai art is the case of Kanthoop, who even though passing the entrance exam of the Silipakorn University, was rejected because of lese majeste accusations leveled against her. And none of the “famous” Thai artists said a public word in her defense. Shame on them.
How can possibly art develop in such an intellectually restrictive environment?
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Could Thailand’s harsh LM laws have caused the paucity of art and artists in Thailand over the past many decades? My guts tell me it is so, but there could be other reasons.
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“Vichai N”:
I thing the harsh LM laws are one of the main reasons. But i think there are other reasons as well, such as the ever pervading patronage networks in Thai society in general, or educational reasons.
The talent is undoubtedly there. If one just looks at the quality of advertisement in Thailand, and the many international prices Thai advertisement creatives have received. Also crafts in Thailand are of a very high quality. In the field of so called “primitive art” Thailand is definitely there as well (though under-appreciated), if one looks for example at the Bucha Buddhas – mostly wooden Buddhas carved in villages, a culture shared by Thailand, Laos, Burma and Cambodia (i have quite a large collection). Also the incredible number and style of magical amulets show enormous artistic qualities (i have actually over the past 6 years collected amulets given out in connection with the political protests in particular – very interesting).
You have also many Thais that have studied in some of the best foreign art colleges and universities.
But in terms of modern art Thai society is still lacking. But i believe that may not be much longer so. With Thai society being now in transition, the hold of the elites and the state over the minds and hearts of the people waning, i believe that there will be soon a new generation of Thai artists who will break the borders.
Social conflict can be a catalyst for the creation of art, as it forces people to think and to question the core of their values.
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Our King is the part of the Thai Flag. We have three colors in the flag. Blue means the King. If we are not allowed to show our King, means we are not allowed to show our flag.
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Every country have their own meaning of the colour of their flag. You have to respect their proud of each meaning on the flag.
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Nick, art education is very low on the agenda. Most students have limited experience until they reach university. So there are no decent art colleges or foundation years to develop basic technical skills prior to university.
There may be political reasons for this, but there are other dynamics too: art isn’t a wealth creator, so there are both less opportunities for embezzlement, corruption and procurement leakage, families often aren’t keen on their kids studying art as its not a “good profession”.
The religious connection with art and traditional crafts and moo sip chang remains strong. As you say, sponsorship and patronage of arts tends to focus on Buddhist/Neo-buddhist “good works”, which build prestige and make merit for the patron.
Developing a stronger art curriculum from secondary school up would probably have the most significant positive effect.
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Greg
“Art isn’t a wealth creator.”
Eh?
Here’s something from The Guardian “Over the past seven years, the Qatari royal family has spent an estimated £1bn on western art.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/apr/16/rise-of-gulf-art-scene
Or how about the new Louvre in the UAE? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louvre_Abu_Dhabi
Even just moving creative people into a space pushes up property values – look at the gentrification in SoHo in NYC or Shoreditch in London.
In fact one of the biggest critiques of the contemporary art scene – which, incidentally, is having a resurgence due to emerging Asian artists like Wei Wei – is that it has become too commercial.
In my view it’s more that Thailand struggles with creating the philosophical and cultural space for challenging art to emerge. This lack of space is due to certain power interests stifling what they perceive as threats. Why do you think the military had Jit Phumisak shot? What kind of culture shoots poets?
There is a lot of talent in Thailand though – Apichatpong Weerasethakul is probably the country’s greatest living artist and is hugely respected internationally.
Also Apichatpong seems very aware that social and political change go hand in hand with cultural transformation. His many obvious nods to the Red Shirts certainly reveal where his sympathies lie.
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I was under the impression that the US Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) specifies that one of the grounds for ineligibility for a visa was ““moral turpitude”. This term appeared in US immigration law in 1891, and directed the exclusion from the United States of “persons who have been convicted of a felony or other infamous crime or misdemeanor involving moral turpitude”. The most common elements involving moral turpitude are: (1) Fraud; (2) Larceny; and (3) Intent to harm persons or thing (sic).
If my memory does not fail… I believe that Mr. T. was convicted in his country for for violating Article 100 of the National Counter Corruption Act. Isn’t “corruption” a “fraud”?
Going by the book, corruption includes “misuse of office or position of authority for private gain” and fraud involves betrayal of trust….Does it not look like the reason why TS was condemned?
Well, than… his visa should not have been issued.
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It hasn’t anything to do with moral or personal values, or which side you take. The world’s governments are not going to side with either the reds or the yellows; they will only take the side that is beneficial to their foreign interests. A year ago that would have been the side of the Democrats. Now it’s the side of Thaksin. Time moves on, seasons change.
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Google, censorship and Thailand’s monarchy…
As reported in Siam Voices this week, Google has released its 2012 Transparency Report, which chronicles requests that Google receives, mostly from governments, to block material online. As Lisa Gardner notes on Siam Voices, “Google bucked international trends in 2011 by blocking access to hundreds of web pages at the behest of the Thai Ministry of Information, Communication, and Technology [MICT].” One part of the report shows that Google has restricted or partly restricted at least 149 YouTube videos that the Thai government claimed was insulting to the monarchy. Unlike in many other countries, where Google supposedly makes its decisions to take down material after a local court issues an order (not that courts are infallible, but at least there is a court order), in Thailand it took down material even without court orders being issued, simply at the request of the authorities.
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One part of the report shows that Google has restricted or partly restricted at least 149 YouTube videos that the Thai government claimed was insulting to the monarchy
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